Showing Posts For TheAlmightyPillock.6258:
I’m actually slightly annoyed by this. Not every war-focused or “evil” fantasy species is meant to be an analogy to the Germans or the Russians. There is a reason why it is called “fantasy”. Yes, there may be motifs and concepts of the real world cultures and history used to make story-wise a certain points across. but that doesn’t make them “German” or “Russian” ir “Roman” or “American”.
A.net would be pretty stupid if they used their species as direct analogies to real world nations, because there are players from that nations too, and most people don’t like being limited by stereotypes.
If I were you, I’d try to find a different thesis for which you can find more literature and scientifically usable sources.
BTW: I think as a German four generations after the war, I don’t feel much animousity from the people form other nations from my genetration. there’s some from people that were child back then, but I can understand why.
the animousity of some Americans and the practice of using the nickname of “the nationalsocialistic party in Germany at the beginning of the 20th century” to jokingly talking about nitpicking or very strickt behaviour is more influenced by the depiction of Germans in modern media as “classical bad guys” than actual contact ith the German nationality.
Again I am sorry for annoying you but I think the issues is that I haven’t explained myself very well. This whole question could as easily be to do with the English and Scott’s, Russian and Americans, England and America. Germany is just the country that I thought of first because it is something I notice more due to my own heratige. I always get (friendly) jokes from people when I mention that my family came over from Germany (I’m very arian looking as well).
I’m not looking for direct comparisons between the Charr and any one nation. Just the way that previously enemy groups, now allies, interact. I don’t care what cultures I look at as part of this so long as I am looking at the Charr and Humans.
“the depiction of Germans in modern media as “classical bad guys” than actual contact ith the German nationality.”
And that is exactly what I am investigating and why I used Germany as an example.
@OP:
I think you need to think little bit out of box here. You have set view that humans are good side in gw2.
However humans invaded charr and ascalon, and then later charr took ascalon back and wiped humans from orr as well.
So now you have humans defeated, they only own small portion of map they used to (kryta). On the other hand charr (allies) own huge lands, and they are righteous.
Now you can compare them post war.
Humans didn’t rebound as well as germans. While germans rebuild and became one of top powers in world, humans in gw2 seem rather stale, they do not innovate much etc…
Charr on the other hand, as winners are having great time, they are strong military power, have huge lands. They still have to deal with left over fanatics (ghosts), but I think they are doing just fine.
I think the problem is that I didn’t communicate well and that everyone assumes I am not thinking outside the box. I hope having read the rest of what I have said here you can see more where I am going. Interms of the motivations for the conflict I in no way see the Charr as evil. When I was playing GW1 and I discovered that the humans had taken what was Charr land it made me see the Charr more as Native Americans driven out of their land, just in this world they had the power to beat of the English settlers who became the foreign Americans.
Personally the only race I’ve played before was the Charr and when I played Wow I only ever played the Hord because I liked being the good guys. I never saw the Alliance as good (just prissy) and I don’t see the Charr as bad. But I wonder if any of the designers weren’t thinking outside the box? That’s more the question.
I’m sorry for the confusion here but I don’t think I have fully articulated what I’m trying to do here. It’s in my head but I’m clearly not getting it down on the page correctly.
I am not saying that I think the Charr are based on poste or pre WWII Germany.
What I want to do is investigate how the relationship between two nations that were once at war but now allied are represented in the game through the relationship between the Charr and the Humans.
My great great grandparents came over from Germany just before the First World War. Their son who was classed as a German while fighting in the British army would not receive care packages from Christian groups because he was the enemy. Now in England there is no hatred of Germany, but there is a low level joking, comedian Henning Vane cannot appear on a BBC radio show without some joke about the war being made.
For most it is just jokes, in other ways it’s a mild resentment. For example why is it that Germany is so often the default bad guy in films? (along with English accents which is also to do with how Americans perceive England).
Germany is just one example of what I am talking about and its just the one I am most familiar with.
What I want to see is how the interaction between the Charr and the Humans plays out. Is there tension, if so how? Are there examples of iconography in the Charrs depiction from the ‘villains of history’ so to speak? In what positive ways are the Charr and Humans shown to interact with regard to their old war? Do they ever speak of forgiving each other or are there small groups that still hold bitterness?
This is what I am hoping you can all help me with. I want to find examples in game of how the player is exposed to the character of these two races and the interaction during and after the war. One gentalman mentioned a group putting up anti-Charr propaganda posters. That’s exactly what I am after. Are there any quests that confront these issues? Are there some old Charr doods sat around saying how much they wish they could keep fighting humans and then a younger one telling them to stop living in the past?
I don’t know, this is what I need to find and I hope you can help me.
OP,
Obviously this will vary from individual to individual and will be different based on where you are from, but where I am we dont really even think of Germany and Japan as former enemies anymore. Or at least not outside of a purely academic sense where we know that WW2 occured and, generally, why…….
the reality is that the comparison you are looking for is likely impossible because there are current active hostilities between the races in GW2.
I hope you will now understand that this is not the point I am trying to make. I’m interested in the interaction of nations that were once at war but now at peace. If there is no comment of it in the game (which I doubt) then that will be the conclusion of my essay.
That said, I don’t think it’s a waste of time to find historical and fictional sources for some of the lore in GW2, but I’d look more broadly rather than try to fit the square peg of Germany’s history 1918-1945 into the round hole of the charr’s history.
I think again you have missed my point. I never said that I was looking at comparisons to 1918-45 Germany. I am looking at the interactions between England/America and 2015 Germany. The only reason I mentioned the Zeppelins as it was something that I thought was more of a Charr thing and it’s also general used in cinema to indicate when someone has gone to an alternate history where the kitten’s won the war. In terms of Semiotics it has a very strong resonance for westerners.
Wow I’m really amazed by the number of comments here, thank you all for you insights and feedback. I think I need to clarify a few things here to ease the direction of this conversation however.
Firstly it is not the case that I think the Charr are based on post war Germany, as someone who does a lot of world building and concept art I know that there are a massive number of influences going into the Charr design. I’ve been really interested by everyone’s comments about how the Ausura actually bear a closer resemblance to the actual kitten regime. I will note that is post ww2 Germany that I am interested in, the current thoughts and perceptions of Germany, japan and other nations. How do we treat country’s that used to be our enemy but are now our friends. This is what the Charr are in GW2. In what way is this reflected in the game?
The second point is that this paper is more of an investigation, rather than me claiming that “X” will be the case. I am mealy curios to see to what degree the interactions between the losing nations from WW2 and the allied forces descendants interact. I live in England and there is a lot of ‘don’t mention the war’ jokes and general joking at the expense of Germans. In addition to this there is a perception by some of a kind of ‘war guilt’ associated with the atrocities performed during the war. For example the American bombing and Hiroshima and Nagasaki and how they are mentioned in films etc.
What I want to investigate is to what degree the interaction between the decedents of the WWII nations are reflected in the Charr and Humans as well as their overall design. For example Donari.5237 mentioned “Separatists in Ebonhawke put up posters demonizing the Charr and yell about the atrocities Charr perpetrated in the war” This is exactly the sort of thing I am after and also the kind of thing I don’t have time to find on my own. What I want to find are more things like this, comments, actions, or iconography that depict this interaction.
I might conclude by paper, which is only 6000 words by saying that there is no direct reference. None the less I still want to investigate it.
Thank you all for your comments, its already given a lot of thoughts. 6000 words really isn’t enough.
Dear fellow Guild Wars players.
My name is Jacob and I am currently studying for my MA. As part of the Theory side of my course I am writing about how the Charr are depicted in Guild Wars 2, how their narrative reflects perceptions of the losing forces after WW2. The Char used to be the enemy now they are allies. In the same way countries such as Germany were once enemies and how now Allies.
Despite Germans and other nations friendly status there is still a fair amount of animosity from our shared history. I am curious to see how much of these perceptions can be seen in the design for the Charr. For example the Charr are the race who first made use of Zeppelins, an image normally associated with kitten Germany.
I want to investigate further into these ideas, what other imagery (and maybe comments by NPC’s) are influenced by cultures perception of losing nations who are now allies. Are the Charr given a concept of ‘war guilt’?
Due to time however I am going to find it hard to discover all the possible examples of this. I have a max level Charr but I haven’t played for the last year due to my studies. I can’t remember specific examples and I am hoping that you, the players, could have a think and get back to me with some locations I can go and investigate on my own.
I won’t be quoting of any one as that would be a whole bunch of ethics forms I would be filling out, I instead need to go to the location of whatever you mention, so please include the exact location I need to find it.
Thank you for any help you can give.