Showing Posts For Torin.7129:
I still don’t think using MMR directly is a good idea for a leaderboard, but I fully understand why people would want it: It is perceived as a better indicator of skill most of the time.
Here is why it doesn’t work well:
Random jumps: Glicko is used to make the best match possible. It does this by adjusting quickly which can result in very large jumps up and down before settling.
No Decay: We can’t decay MMR directly, which causes the problem of people sitting inactive at the top of the leaderboard.Our best bet is to create a system that lives side-by-side with the Glicko MMR. The original system does its thing and makes good matches while the new one can be a new algorithm, or a filtered glicko algorithm to give us more friendly numbers without negatively affecting matchmaking.
Thoughts?
Create finally a guild leaderboard and close the 3 years old beta test.
Ty
Not really, i’m not conflating. The problem is that the leaderboard is MMR based, which is not working with this low population. If this system will stay, then they’ll lose all of the remaining casual pvp players too.
Btw. I’m not talking about a new game mode GvG. GvG means for me not 20v20 zerg vs zerg. In this game, in this gamemode 5v5. At the moment we haven’t got it. We have a freaky random arena since 3 years. Guildwars=name of the game, do we have it? Not.
That’s not true. Matchmaking is MMR based, leaderboards are not. People actually want MMR based leaderboards.
Name Guild Wars actually comes from GW1 lore, not pvp game mode.
Ye sry, wanted to write matchmaking ofc.
MMR generally works… as well as any system that has less than 5000 players. In most games, MM is very effective because there are hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of players so they get to be choosy.
Guild wars 2 doesn’t have that luxury, so you OP you will have to create 100k+ more players in order to have a perfect working MMR, so suck it up.
Anet needs to create a working system, to get back the pvp community in this game. What we currently have with this system can’t be called real pvp. It’s a grindfest with a terribad system, that’s why they have less than 5k players.
Buddy, you are conflating MMR with the leaderboard. Your topic is about MMR not leaderboard, yes, the leaderboard is a grindfest you wont here me argue against it.
There is no such thing as real pvp or fake pvp. The simple act of playing against another player is called Player vs player.
No they have a pop of less than 5k because players expectations did not matched reality which is fair considering gw1 had a robust pvp system. IT has little to do with your terrible theory.
While MMR is stil be examined and worked on, any system the put in to replace it will certianly need to be tested. They could go back to the GW1 style ladder, but it would still need to be tested.
We are getting GvG with the expansion.
They do tournaments. I believe there is one currently going on, and one not that long ago.EU server lag is a known issue and something they are actively working on. If you want it done correctly, and not a half kittened rush job, it’s going to take time.
In any event, the current system is actually pretty cool, in theory. However the actual implementation has created unforseen side effects that really do need to be addressed. And thats what the testing is all about. The change a few things, test it in action. Make any modifcations, and go from there. It’s a process. And it takes time. Be patient and it will be fixed and work exactly as intended.
Takes time? Man you can’t be serious. The game is nearly 3 years old, and they didn’t do anything worthy. We are still in a beta version of the pvp game. That’s my problem.
Btw. I mean tourmanents ingame, not a buggy registration of esl. All of the good systems they used in gw1 disappeared.
And raging about it is going to make them just suddenly do it…Gotcha
Of course all of the systems in GW1 disappeared. It’s an entirely different game with different mechanics. It’s like trying to take a DOS based text game, and throwing it into a PS4 and expecting it to be a high quality graphical game. It’s not going to work.
Sry man but you rly don’t get what I want to say. I know that the game mechanics is total different, but a guild ladder is needed. GVG is needed for this conquest mode too. And GW1 had a working system with normal ladder and matchmaking. That could be the same here too, and the pvp community would be satisfied with it. That’s all. I don’t want GW1 mechanics here, just a kittening guildladder, that we had there. With rankbased matches you can enjoy all of your games, cause you’ll get opponent on your lvl.
And thats what the MMR is supposed to do. But it’s also supposed to give you a better rank based on how well a single player performs in a given match. Instead of just rank based on wins/loses. This rewards players for carrying a team, and punishes players for not doing anything.
I understand what you are saying, and yeah I want a working system as well, but patience is more rewarding then letting yourself get frustrated and worked up about nothing you have control over.
But we don’t need this. MMR would be good for a random arena (that’s what we have right now). What rewards do you get with this system? +points? Joke. This system is a grindfest nothing else. I speak about competitive pvp, GvG. I think we waited long enough to lose patience.
GvG in guild wars 1 terms NOT that worthless pathetic zerg vs zerg crap that WvWer love to call PvP, isn’t inherently more competitive than any other form of PvP. Just because you have a preference doesn’t make it objective fact.
Not really, i’m not conflating. The problem is that the leaderboard is MMR based, which is not working with this low population. If this system will stay, then they’ll lose all of the remaining casual pvp players too.
Btw. I’m not talking about a new game mode GvG. GvG means for me not 20v20 zerg vs zerg. In this game, in this gamemode 5v5. At the moment we haven’t got it. We have a freaky random arena since 3 years. Guildwars=name of the game, do we have it? Not.
While MMR is stil be examined and worked on, any system the put in to replace it will certianly need to be tested. They could go back to the GW1 style ladder, but it would still need to be tested.
We are getting GvG with the expansion.
They do tournaments. I believe there is one currently going on, and one not that long ago.EU server lag is a known issue and something they are actively working on. If you want it done correctly, and not a half kittened rush job, it’s going to take time.
In any event, the current system is actually pretty cool, in theory. However the actual implementation has created unforseen side effects that really do need to be addressed. And thats what the testing is all about. The change a few things, test it in action. Make any modifcations, and go from there. It’s a process. And it takes time. Be patient and it will be fixed and work exactly as intended.
Takes time? Man you can’t be serious. The game is nearly 3 years old, and they didn’t do anything worthy. We are still in a beta version of the pvp game. That’s my problem.
Btw. I mean tourmanents ingame, not a buggy registration of esl. All of the good systems they used in gw1 disappeared.
And raging about it is going to make them just suddenly do it…Gotcha
Of course all of the systems in GW1 disappeared. It’s an entirely different game with different mechanics. It’s like trying to take a DOS based text game, and throwing it into a PS4 and expecting it to be a high quality graphical game. It’s not going to work.
Sry man but you rly don’t get what I want to say. I know that the game mechanics is total different, but a guild ladder is needed. GVG is needed for this conquest mode too. And GW1 had a working system with normal ladder and matchmaking. That could be the same here too, and the pvp community would be satisfied with it. That’s all. I don’t want GW1 mechanics here, just a kittening guildladder, that we had there. With rankbased matches you can enjoy all of your games, cause you’ll get opponent on your lvl.
And thats what the MMR is supposed to do. But it’s also supposed to give you a better rank based on how well a single player performs in a given match. Instead of just rank based on wins/loses. This rewards players for carrying a team, and punishes players for not doing anything.
I understand what you are saying, and yeah I want a working system as well, but patience is more rewarding then letting yourself get frustrated and worked up about nothing you have control over.
That’s completely wrong. This system actually punishes solo players no matter how hard they try. Without functional matchmaking, you might as well end up with 4 new people and you just cannot carry 4 people over and over. You can carry some games, sure but not all of them. Leaderboard doesn’t reflect individual skill at all, it punishes good players and promotes players who just farm wins.
Key word is supposed. I agree that the current system isn’t working as it should, and needs to be fixed. If it did work as intended, that it wouldn’t matter if it was solo players or not. The best players (meaning those who have stayed alive the longest, dealt the most damage, captured and defended the most points, etc.) would be rewarded the most, solo or on a team.
But the match making isn’t working. Thats why we are getting uneven matches, blowouts, and what not.No, those are two different things. Leaderboards work as they’re supposed to work, the problem is there is a bad design.
Matchmaking possibly works in certain cases, could be higher population or anything as we cannot see our MMR’s. Once they make those public, we’ll be able to actually make some opinions.
But we will never see it. Justin said, cause of verbal abuse. Trolololol
MMR generally works… as well as any system that has less than 5000 players. In most games, MM is very effective because there are hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of players so they get to be choosy.
Guild wars 2 doesn’t have that luxury, so you OP you will have to create 100k+ more players in order to have a perfect working MMR, so suck it up.
Anet needs to create a working system, to get back the pvp community in this game. What we currently have with this system can’t be called real pvp. It’s a grindfest with a terribad system, that’s why they have less than 5k players.
While MMR is stil be examined and worked on, any system the put in to replace it will certianly need to be tested. They could go back to the GW1 style ladder, but it would still need to be tested.
We are getting GvG with the expansion.
They do tournaments. I believe there is one currently going on, and one not that long ago.EU server lag is a known issue and something they are actively working on. If you want it done correctly, and not a half kittened rush job, it’s going to take time.
In any event, the current system is actually pretty cool, in theory. However the actual implementation has created unforseen side effects that really do need to be addressed. And thats what the testing is all about. The change a few things, test it in action. Make any modifcations, and go from there. It’s a process. And it takes time. Be patient and it will be fixed and work exactly as intended.
Takes time? Man you can’t be serious. The game is nearly 3 years old, and they didn’t do anything worthy. We are still in a beta version of the pvp game. That’s my problem.
Btw. I mean tourmanents ingame, not a buggy registration of esl. All of the good systems they used in gw1 disappeared.
And raging about it is going to make them just suddenly do it…Gotcha
Of course all of the systems in GW1 disappeared. It’s an entirely different game with different mechanics. It’s like trying to take a DOS based text game, and throwing it into a PS4 and expecting it to be a high quality graphical game. It’s not going to work.
Sry man but you rly don’t get what I want to say. I know that the game mechanics is total different, but a guild ladder is needed. GVG is needed for this conquest mode too. And GW1 had a working system with normal ladder and matchmaking. That could be the same here too, and the pvp community would be satisfied with it. That’s all. I don’t want GW1 mechanics here, just a kittening guildladder, that we had there. With rankbased matches you can enjoy all of your games, cause you’ll get opponent on your lvl.
And thats what the MMR is supposed to do. But it’s also supposed to give you a better rank based on how well a single player performs in a given match. Instead of just rank based on wins/loses. This rewards players for carrying a team, and punishes players for not doing anything.
I understand what you are saying, and yeah I want a working system as well, but patience is more rewarding then letting yourself get frustrated and worked up about nothing you have control over.
But we don’t need this. MMR would be good for a random arena (that’s what we have right now). What rewards do you get with this system? +points? Joke. This system is a grindfest nothing else. I speak about competitive pvp, GvG. I think we waited long enough to lose patience.
While MMR is stil be examined and worked on, any system the put in to replace it will certianly need to be tested. They could go back to the GW1 style ladder, but it would still need to be tested.
We are getting GvG with the expansion.
They do tournaments. I believe there is one currently going on, and one not that long ago.EU server lag is a known issue and something they are actively working on. If you want it done correctly, and not a half kittened rush job, it’s going to take time.
In any event, the current system is actually pretty cool, in theory. However the actual implementation has created unforseen side effects that really do need to be addressed. And thats what the testing is all about. The change a few things, test it in action. Make any modifcations, and go from there. It’s a process. And it takes time. Be patient and it will be fixed and work exactly as intended.
Takes time? Man you can’t be serious. The game is nearly 3 years old, and they didn’t do anything worthy. We are still in a beta version of the pvp game. That’s my problem.
Btw. I mean tourmanents ingame, not a buggy registration of esl. All of the good systems they used in gw1 disappeared.
And raging about it is going to make them just suddenly do it…Gotcha
Of course all of the systems in GW1 disappeared. It’s an entirely different game with different mechanics. It’s like trying to take a DOS based text game, and throwing it into a PS4 and expecting it to be a high quality graphical game. It’s not going to work.
Sry man but you rly don’t get what I want to say. I know that the game mechanics is total different, but a guild ladder is needed. GVG is needed for this conquest mode too. And GW1 had a working system with normal ladder and matchmaking. That could be the same here too, and the pvp community would be satisfied with it. That’s all. I don’t want GW1 mechanics here, just a kittening guildladder, that we had there. With rankbased matches you can enjoy all of your games, cause you’ll get opponent on your lvl.
While MMR is stil be examined and worked on, any system the put in to replace it will certianly need to be tested. They could go back to the GW1 style ladder, but it would still need to be tested.
We are getting GvG with the expansion.
They do tournaments. I believe there is one currently going on, and one not that long ago.EU server lag is a known issue and something they are actively working on. If you want it done correctly, and not a half kittened rush job, it’s going to take time.
In any event, the current system is actually pretty cool, in theory. However the actual implementation has created unforseen side effects that really do need to be addressed. And thats what the testing is all about. The change a few things, test it in action. Make any modifcations, and go from there. It’s a process. And it takes time. Be patient and it will be fixed and work exactly as intended.
Takes time? Man you can’t be serious. The game is nearly 3 years old, and they didn’t do anything worthy. We are still in a beta version of the pvp game. That’s my problem.
Btw. I mean tourmanents ingame, not a buggy registration of esl. All of the good systems they used in gw1 disappeared.
Srsly everyone sees that this system doesn’t work and WON’t work.
Please do something serious. Testing kitten is not it.
Give us back the normal guildladder (gw1) with a normal ladderrankbased matchmaking.
Create finally GvG’s. Create tournaments.
And at least fix EU server laggs in prime time, cause the game is unplayable.
Thanks.
please finally fix that kitten server lagg, in prime time, most of the players have 1-2 sec skilldelay and 5-10 sec gamestops while match
Could anet do anyhting to fix the lag issue in prime time? Ty.
if stronghold will be in same q, all of us can forget about guild leaderboard too. grindfest will stay. TY anet
who makes decisions? where’s gw1 team? srsly fire them, all of them.
anet makes only mistakes in gw2 pvp since release. esport? joke, nothing else.
last question:
if I reroll after we entered the map, which char get the MMR after the match ended?
and is it still account based or character based?
Is the MMR same in ranked and unranked? Last days i’ve been playing only unranked, much more wins than loses. Now I need to wait in q 6-10 mins to get a match.
5v5 isn’t guild v guild, it’s just spvp again dressed up. You can dress up a dog and call it a horse, but it’s still a dog.
Few years ago we had 8v8 and it was the only gvg we had. Now we have those wvwers who love zerging claiming otherwise.
+1
It’s balanced and not op. That’s what everyone’s saying.
credibility?
please go play some ranked arena games first before you talk about “credibility”
http://www.gw2score.com/index.php?action=PvP&sort=player&ad=witcher3197
if anything, people like yourself without recent ranked arena games have absolutely no right to make ridiculous balance changes requests.
the game is balanced around 5 vs 5 conquest mode ranked arena, not hotjoin, not unranked arena.
I second that.
Complete newbie to ranked arena is writing about how the game should be balanced, ha ha ha.
both of you are kittened sorry
Justin you are saying:
-We don’t want people focus on MMR, and we don’t want people to shame and harass people with lower MMR.
Is this a joke? Everyone want to focus on self MMR. We want to know where are we standing at the moment, the leaderboard doesn’t show it.
Don’t we get matches with people with nearly same MMR? Then why do we want to flame them? It has no sense.
-Double or tripple profession in same team: Looking at the data, the system is actually really good at this, but can be over-shadowed by the new profession dailies. We do not wan’t to put a hard cap on the number because it could greatly increase queue times for the more common professions.
I think increased queue time is much better than unbalanced terrible games. It’s simply not fun to play matches vs 4 engis or with 3 bunker guards. Or give us the option to do something before the match is starting. I mean if i can’t change character, i want to change build. But 1 min isn’t enough. We need trait and skilltemplates to change builds.
Or fix this MMR based matchmaking and do not let the system make double professioned matches.
The problem is the numbers of PvP players. There aren’t enough. You say there are more players than before. Of course, pve players are grinding reward tracks. All of the casual players are already quited, or will quit. I know that money comes from pve players but this is still Guildwars and we want serious PvP. That’s why we PvP players bought the game and that’s why an easier ladder/leaderboard based matchmaking system would be so much better for all of us. Then the leaderboard will show us who are the best players in game, not who are the best grinders in game.
I don’t understand why did Anet start to create a matchmaking system that need to much people to work good. We don’t have that population and people won’t come back, if it stays.
The biggest problem:
The game is 2,5 years old, called Guildwars and we don’t have GvG and guild ladder.
Why can’t Anet put in a simply guild ladder? Then matchmaking can be based on ladder standings. We need daily and monthly tournaments.
Unranked and Ranked Arenas should be like Random Arenas in GW1. You can join solo, and if you win you can continue till 5…10 wins for more rewards.
MMR: I think this algorythm is too complicated. It’s based on Rank, Profession, Ladder Standings etc. etc., but it seems not working. And i don’t understand, why can’t we see how much is our MMR at the moment.
Double or tripple profession in same team: Can’t you make an algorythm that doesn’t allow to join 2 or more same profession in a team? Then can be all of the games more balanced.
Curren Leaderboard: Terribad, it’s all about grinding, play more matches and you get more points. A Guildladder is needed, not singleplayer ladder.