Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

the number doesnt matter much because no matter how many berserkers there are they’ll likely be in melee range hence all equally affected. As for condimancers multiple can still help by making it less hectic to maintain conditions while supporting and spreading conditions around through epidemic. Also important to consider is condimancers dont do just condition damage part of it is also direct damage. With co-ordination they can also take diverse support roles that can further be useful for the group.

At the end having just condimancers is as bad as having just berserkers. a Gw2 group in my opinion is most affective when you have a healthy mix. Lets not forget there are quite a few conditions which is part of the problem. having 50 stacks of bleed might be okey. but imagine a situation where you get 50 stacks of bleed and confusion as well as torment together with burning and poison. and then spread all around using epidemic thats a lot of damage

I think the number DOES matter here, simply because there is an arbitrary cap on condition users that can be hit when there are multiple of them around. Having any number of berzerkers in any group is not an issue because more berzerkers means things die faster. Yet, having more than 2 condimancers is already punished. You can’t say the condimancers can “support the group.” Any one can do that in Guild Wars 2, just ask that zerker warrior to drop a banner and he’s “supporting.”

If it’s an issue of “a class should be better at something than other classes, and condimancers are good at spreading conditions while zerker warriors are good a single-target (or rather fewer-target) DPS,” then that’s valid. But condimancers shouldn’t feel hamstrung or limited when they are forced outside of them comfort zone. necros and other condi builds want to feel effective and powerful when they are helping to burn down that lone, million-health champion on the map too.

At the end of the day, I guess that’s the biggest issue of it: it doesn’t feel good enough

I have also thought about how to deal with the hard-cap on bleeds, specifically (because I am a weird guy who plays condiwarrior. I am not kidding).

In my view, a mechanic that ignores defenses like bleeds obviously requires a ceiling, since it is a supplement to the reduced direct damage that condi characters can do already. However, applying said supplement should feel great for the player. After all, that condimancer is working really hard to keep up that bleed stack. Furthermore, the mechanic should reward multiple players for using the same build. If a group of Direct Damage builds work together, things die faster. If a group of Condi Builds work together, things…don’t.

Like OP said, conditions should be synergistic and promote cooperation. And here is my idea (warning: long post incoming):

All bleeds should contribute to percent health damage per second…

Wait, wait. Don’t touch the pitchforks yet. Let me finish.

But with an asymptote and a deceleration factor.

Say what?

I am saying bleed stacking should be a race-of-time mechanic. An application (not stack) of bleed by a skill should do a small percent health damage over time, determined by Condition Damage. Additional stacks of bleed increases that percentage, to a maximum (the asymptote I mentioned earlier).

So how is that different from what it is now?

It isn’t, yet. Here is where the deceleration factor (let’s call it Staunching for now) comes in. Instead of duration for each bleed, the intensity (percent health per second) of the bleed decreases over time, and the rate at which the intensity decreases will increase as intensity goes up. In other words, it is harder to reach the max percent health damage the more bleeds you apply. To keep up the bleed damage, then, requires applying more bleeds to maintain the intensity and fight the Staunching.

So it takes multiple characters to work together and constantly apply bleeds in order to bleed enemies at the fastest possible rate. The maximum percent health per second is now an asymptote (something you can get really, really close), and bleeding is now a synergistic race against time.

For example, if a group of condiwarriors walked up to a champion, they would:
1) Begin building bleed intensity with #1 Skill chain
2) Cap out on the bleed intensity due to staunching
3) Build up their adrenaline
4) Presse F1 all at the same time (Sever Artery everywhere),
5) Bleed the poor champ at the, let’s say, max rate for a brief moment,
6) Lose bleed intensity because they can’t apply bleeds as fast
7) Maintain initial bleed intensity

So what percentage health damage per second should be the max? 1? 2? 3? 5?

Well, depends. Let’s have a hypothetical example (all numbers are made up):

Here we have a champion monster.
It’s been mobbed by 10 Direct Damage warriors.
Same gear, same trait, same stat. For Direct Damage.
It dies in 180 seconds.

And here we have the same champion monster.
It’s been mobbed by 10 Condition Damage warriors.
Same gear, same trait, same stat. For Condition Damage.
Oh no. the game’s bugged. No one can apply any bleeds (like I said, hypothetical).
How much health did the champion lose in 180 seconds?
80%
That means Condition Damage Build is dealing 20% less Direct Damage in 180 seconds.
Which means bleed have to make up at least:
20% of health / 180 seconds = 0.111% of health per second
Then, the maximum cap for bleed intensity can be a little higher, like 0.15% of health per second, to reward good coordination in bleed application among multiple players.

Remember all numbers are hypothetical

This structure opens up balancing options for different situations too, as the amount of bleeds faced by World Bosses, Dungeon champions, Personal Story champions, etc. are all different. The number can be tweaked accordingly.

Since Condition Damage will affect the intensity increase by each application of bleed, investing in said stats will feel powerful and effective. The deceleration factor will make applying bleeds feel exciting and synergistic. Having multiple people applying bleeds will now work together, instead of getting into each other’s way.

What do you think? Am I full of bull? Do I have something going here?