Showing Posts For Xalzor.5047:
I most certainly don’t think I am the best warrior, however, I do stand by the fact they are not useless, and fights can be won. I am not sure at top-tier, but also at top tier, we don’t see many DH nor thieves, yet people are constantly complaining about DH (Which I personally have had no problems with. The only thing i think is OP is trap size, maybe)
As said above, I will certainly take the duel, and regardless of if I lose, hopefully when I post the build, it is atleast more receptive than I’ve been treated by a few members of the community so far (One going so far to saying i’m low MMR, uplevel wvw, etc.)
Just because I’m new to a class, and trying to offer a viewpoint that isn’t doom and gloom doesn’t make me a terrible player.
Sure, other classes are better, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be an effective warrior at most MMRs
Look around you at all the folks who are still hanging on to warrior despite claiming it’s terrible. You’d be surprised at how many people would agree with your statements. As I previously stated, warriors are not completely unplayable. We are still more than capable of utterly destroying scrubs and tryhards. In fact, I’d say warrior is one of the best classes at killing bads. The problem is that once we face someone skilled, even if we are clearly more skilled than that person, we are likely to lose because of the limitations of our class.
We do not have the tools to compete at higher levels of pvp. We are laughably easy to counter, and don’t bring enough to the table to justify how easily we can be farmed by someone who has taken the time to learn our weaknesses. Yes, I know other classes have exploitable weaknesses as well, but warrior’s weaknesses are far greater, and our strengths far lesser, in comparison.
I understand what you are saying. I know you’re not trying to claim to be the best, but you have understand that the reason you got the flak you did was not because of what you were saying, but because of how you were saying it.
Disagree with the aboves. I have never played warrior until last week. I made a build and have been wrecking pvp to sapphire.
Forums just like to QQ and not actually look for solutions, but rather, whine to anet to fix their struggles.
i’m having a blast, and its highly effective.
Look at my results. Change your build, your playstyle, and things will work just fine as it has for me. Adapt to the meta. Crush the meta.
You’re new to the class, and you have yet to prove yourself, but your statements imply a sense of superiority. They come off as arrogant boasting, and make you look as if you are talking down to the members of the community that have experienced the failings of the class against skilled players firsthand. Is it really so surprising that these (much more experienced) warriors would respond with venom and dismissive comments?
I am against flaming and personal attacks, but it is important to check one’s own behavior as well. Especially when one is dealing with a crowd of disgruntled people who have tried everything in their power to make things work, but ultimately failed. I hope you understand that both sides share the blame here.
I also hope you understand that first impressions last. If/When you post your build, unless it is something that no one here has ever tried before (highly unlikely), it will most likely be torn apart. If you want your opinions to be respected, you have to earn it. How? At this point all you can do is duel, and duel well. Not just against online, but also against all the others that you have now triggered.
Good luck.
I would also argue that Warrior vs Warrior seems a bit odd, because, warrior viability isnt based on warrior vs warrior but rather who you can beat in the meta.
Agree that Warrior vs Warrior is odd. Maybe War vs War + another duel War vs [Meta class] ?
Allow me to explain, then.
online claims to be the best warrior on NA. This title carries with it the implication that among all NA warriors, online is the most knowledgeable and experienced because he is also the most successful. So when online claims that warrior is bad in pvp, he is putting the full weight of his title behind that claim.
Enter Malpractice. A self-confessed new warrior with little over a week of experience on the class. In direct contrast to online’s statements, Malpractice claims that warrior is not only viable in pvp, but, in light of recent successes, also actually good.
Put up a fight? Look at my results. Change your build, your playstyle, and things will work just fine as it has for me. Adapt to the meta. Crush the meta.
I do just fine in both 1v1 and team situations. I cant think of any profession i’m having a difficult time with.
Statements like the above imply (regardless of Malpractice’s actual intent) that Malpractice is a knowledgeable and accomplished warrior in his own right; certainly more knowledgeable than those who have had difficulties with the class in pvp. He claims to have no difficulties not just surviving, but also definitively defeating any class, other warriors included, in a duel. online has previously stated in other threads what classes and builds are difficult, if not impossible, to straight-up defeat on a warrior.
To put it plainly, they cannot both be right. Warrior cannot be good if the best player on the class says it is not. online cannot be the best player on the class if someone else is having more success with it than him.
Hence, a warrior vs. warrior duel (as opposed to warrior vs. x) must occur to definitively decide who is better at the class, and whose opinion on the capabilities of said class should be respected more.
Just to be clear, I am not saying either side is right or wrong here. I am simply explaining why the duel must be between 2 warriors if it is to carry any weight. I wish both competitors the best of luck, and will be eagerly awaiting the results of the duel.
warrior can not stand any focus at all. they die way too easy in team fight.
in duels, you can probably put up a fightPut up a fight? Look at my results. Change your build, your playstyle, and things will work just fine as it has for me. Adapt to the meta. Crush the meta.
I do just fine in both 1v1 and team situations. I cant think of any profession i’m having a difficult time with.
I am legitimately happy that you’ve found success with warrior after having only played it for a short amount of time. I won’t question your recent pvp success streak (I’m primarily a WvW roamer, anyway), though given the controversies surrounding leagues right now, I warn you that some people might.
I do, however, have to politely ask you to see past your own success, and look at the bigger picture. Most of us here have been playing the warrior for years. I myself have played warrior almost exclusively since shortly after launch. We are not mindlessly QQing. We are not simply refusing to adapt.
I did not buy HoT, but I have played every conceivable trait/weapon combination on core warrior. I have sunk a considerable amount of gold testing various combinations of armor, runes, and sigils. I have tested and tried/mixed and matched every heal, utility, and elite skill available to me. I know my class. I know what it can and cannot do. And, yes, I know that even now it can still “wreck face”.
But please believe me when I tell you that warrior is definitely weaker than other classes right now. It suffers from many fundamental flaws in its design that other classes simply do not share. These flaws are well known, and can be easily exploited to great effect by skilled players on almost any other class. I could list them for you, but they have been discussed to death on these forums already. I encourage you to go back and read about them. If nothing else, knowing the weaknesses of your class will only help you improve in the long run.
Should you play warrior in pvp?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Hell no.
In all seriousness, though, warrior is not completely unplayable. With enough effort and the proper build, you can still perform somewhat adequately in certain roles/situations. For example, warriors built for damage can still deal decent burst, and warriors built for support can still dish out enough CC/healing to be noticeable. But you’ve already struck on the heart of the problem.
Anything you can do somewhat well on warrior, you can do much better on another class/elite specialization. Without sacrificing as much or working as hard either.
I don’t really like doing this sort of thing, but I was inspired by the thread on nerfing Forceful Greatsword to make other traits seem better (a terrible idea). Here are my personal suggestions on how to improve other weapon traits so that they actually are better. I will be structuring my suggestions by first listing the current effect of a given trait, what I believe the idea behind the trait’s design is, why the trait is problematic, and then finally how I believe it can be improved.
Weapon: Axe
Trait: Axe Mastery
Current Effect: Critical axe hits gain extra (+1) adrenaline. Gain (150 == 10% crit damage) ferocity for each axe you are wielding, Reduce recharge on axe skills (-20%).
The Idea: This trait tries to get warriors to play a bursty eviscerate-based dual axe build. With this trait, a warrior could, with 100% crit chance, to go from 0 – 30 adrenaline using only Axe 5 (which is also the skill that would benefit the most from the -20% cooldown). That kind of crit chance is best obtained by also taking the trait Signet Master (also makes eviscerate unblockable at 50% hp), which would also open up option of taking Dual Wielding (for faster auto attacks/Axe 5 channel) or Burst Precision (for guaranteed Eviscerate crit). If all goes well, each of those hits will be doing +20% damage thanks to the ferocity bonus. Taking the discipline line in addition to all that would allow for even stronger, and more frequent Eviscerates.
The Problem: While the above combo is potent on paper, in practice a warrior would have to give up too much to make it work. Without Defense, survivability is significantly reduced, so it becomes a true kill or be kill build – one where you have to land your bursts in order to win. The biggest issue there is that axe, dual axe especially, has neither utility nor survivability. It has no gap closers, no CC apart from Axe 3’s pathetic 4s cripple, and is easily countered by simple kiting. Throw in all the blocks/blinds/evades in the game right now, and other professions will laugh at your attempts to go full melee YOLO. In other words, all that damage is useless because you can’t consistently deal it.
Suggested Improvements: In addition to its current effects, Axe Mastery should at least try to eliminate some of the weaknesses of the dual axe setup if it wants to see any serious play. These can include one of the following:
- Makes Eviscerate unblockable (eliminates some risk) OR
- Critical hits with Axe apply vulnerability with no ICD (increases reward by giving axe a non-selfish damage buff)
Weapon: Rifle
Trait: Crack Shot
Current Effect: Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Reduces recharge on rifle and harpoon gun skills (-20%).
The Idea: This is a trait that doesn’t so much buff a weapon as make it viable. Both the piercing (which I believe rifle is next to worthless without) and the cooldown reduction serve to help make rifle a more effective and consistent damage dealer. Higher uptime on vulnerability through Rifle 4 also makes for faster adrenaline gain through Rifle 1, which in turn makes for faster Killshots.
The Problem: Like most warrior weapons, rifle is good for only one thing – in this case, single target ranged damage. As such, anyone using rifle is using it purely for the burst potential of Rifle 3 and Killshot. While this trait is straight-up mandatory for a rifle warrior because of piercing, it doesn’t do much to actually help the weapon become anything more than viable.
Suggested Improvements: In addition to its current effects, Crack Shot should at the very least improve on rifle’s ability to do the one thing people use it for. This can be done by applying the following buffs:
- Apply stability while channeling killshot (eliminates some risk) AND
- Critical hits with rifle generate extra adrenaline (makes it easier to get to the reward with just the rifle)
Weapon: Hammer
Trait: Merciless Hammer
Current Effect: Hammer damage is increased (+20%) when attacking a foe that is dazed, knocked down, launched, or stunned. Reduces recharge on hammer skills (-20%).
The Idea: Hammer is well-known as the CC weapon. This trait aims to reward warriors that successfully land hammer’s CC with additional damage, and allows warriors to have access to those CC skills sooner by reducing their cooldowns.
The Problem: Too little payoff for too much work. The damage increase is negligible because no CC lasts long enough to make use of it with hammer’s unbelievably slow weapon skills. The cooldown reduction is laughable as well. The cooldowns on hammer’s skills are simply too long for -20% to make much of a difference.
Suggested Improvements: Let’s face facts – unless hammer undergoes a heavy overhaul with significantly lowered cooldowns and faster/stronger damage dealing skills, no one is ever going to camp hammer no matter what effect is put on this trait. There is, however, one change that could make all the difference. In addition to its current -20% cooldown reduction effect, hammer should have an ability that capitalizes on the fact that everyone wants to switch out of it as soon as possible:
- Critical hits with hammer recharge weapon swap (with this, someone can switch to hammer, land a CC, and switch back to the weapon they actually want to use immediately)
Weapon: Sword
Trait: Blademaster
Current Effect: Sword skills have an increased critical-hit chance against bleeding foes (+20%). Reduces recharge on sword skills (-20%).
The Idea: Sword is a hybrid weapon, so its trait has to provide incentive to both power and condition builds. This trait tries to accomplish that by giving both build-types access to more consistent critical damage. This way, someone built for condition damage could still deal some decent physical damage, while someone built for power has a straight +20% crit chance thanks to Sword 1 while also getting a lower cooldown on the hard-hitting Sword 3.
The Problem: On a weapon with such “meh” damage, increased critical chance is simply not enough to matter, especially considering other traits in Arms provide more than enough critical chance already. The trait does nothing to address the problems condition users face with Sword 3 and 4 (Rip) or those direct damage dealers face with Sword 1 and Flurry.
Suggested Improvements: The sword needs a trait that would buff its effectiveness in dealing both direct and condition damage. It needs some way to capitalize on the crits that the Arms tree is giving out like candy. It needs:
- Gain might on critical hit with no ICD (Gives condition builds might stacking and power builds a reason to actually channel Flurry)
Weapon: Longbow
Trait: Burning Arrows
Current Effect: Dual shot causes burning and longbow skills recharge faster (-20%).
The Idea: Longbow is another hybrid weapon, but one lacking in continuous condition pressure. With this trait, longbow gets a condition on AA, but not just any condition – burning. Burning is one of the strongest conditions in the game and can still be a noticeable (if very slight) damage increase for power builds. Add to that a -20% cooldown reduction on all the other skills and the utility they bring, and you have what looks like a decent trait.
The Problem: Unlike some other weapon traits, this trait does actually help longbow in a noticeable way, but the problem is that it doesn’t do quite enough to stand out and make itself a strong pick for longbow users, especially those that aren’t running condi builds. Power builds can safely ignore this trait, and considering that longbow does have its fair share of uses in power builds, that’s a big problem.
Suggested Improvements: In addition to its current effects, Burning Arrows should apply one more additional buff to be useful across the board:
- Increase projectile speed (helps every kind of build and makes it easier to land the telegraphed skills also arrows on fire are red and everyone knows red goes faster)
Unfortunately, I never liked mace (didn’t fit my playstyle), so I’m afraid I don’t have the experience or knowledge to make any meaningful suggestions to improve it, even though I think it’s trait is much too weak to even consider taking. I’m sure some of you have ideas, though.
This thread isn’t just about my ideas. I just gave those to get the ball rolling. Here’s another opportunity to discuss (yet again) some trait improvements for warrior (because some folks don’t seem to believe we’ve done that enough). Let’s try to keep things to the weapon traits themselves, and think about their placement/peers some other time.
It makes me sad to see that people can look at the state the warrior is in right now, and still be calling for changes that are effectively needless nerfs. I am speaking from a PvP/WvW perspective.
Is Forceful Greatsword significantly better than the other weapon traits? Undoubtedly yes. Should it be nerfed down to make other traits seem more viable by comparison? Absolutely not. Why? Because warrior is struggling even with Forceful Greatsword the way it is. Nerfing it in any way would not improve the warrior, or suddenly make other builds viable, it would only serve to remove one of the few things the profession has going for it at the moment and make it worse across the board. Forceful Greatsword should be the standard to which other weapon traits are balanced, not the other way around.
I think that part of the problem is that people are still hung up on the raw damage provided by Hundred Blades. If that is indeed the case, then let me share some insight on the topic.
Hundred Blades + Forceful Greatsword in the current state of the game deals an average of only around 7k damage (berserker amulet) to a heavy armor target, provided that no other buffs/debuffs apart from the might from the trait are applied. Just for additional clarification: that is a rough middle-range average based off of minimal testing on a Heavy Golem in Heart of the Mists (I encourage you to try it for yourself). HB can deal a few thousand more or less than that depending on how many hits in the channel crit. Keep in mind, however, that berserker amulet alone provides only around 50% crit chance, so it is just as likely for a hit to not crit (and do subpar damage) as it is for a hit to crit (and do the kind of damage we want).
In case my point has not come across, 7k damage is…less than ideal (I would personally go so far as to say it was pitiful) for the cost of the skill. Hundred Blades is a 130 range, maximum of 3 targets cleave, 3.5 second channeled skill that roots the warrior on cast. I can guarantee that most players will not get hit by the full channel of HB in any but the most abysmal of circumstances (AFK, downed, heavily CC’d with no stunbreaks). Not to mention that the final hit of HB does the most damage, so not landing that final hit is a significant damage loss. There are many other skills in the game that can deal similar amounts of damage in PvP, but are much much easier to land. Heck, even warrior’s own Whirling Axe (Axe 5) with it’s +50% damage buff in sPvP deals similar damage while still being mobile. You don’t see anyone complaining about that skill, though.
So no, HB – even with Forceful Greatsword – is not the crazy/massive “end-all be-all” damage skill it once was. Most players will not get hit by the full channel, and even if they do (congratulations to the warrior that pulled that off, by the way), many professions in the current meta have tools/builds that would give them a fairly good chance of surviving it and giving back in kind. More than one Reaper has facetanked one of my HB and survived, for instance.
The fact of the matter is that GS is taken because it is currently the only warrior weapon to provide a somewhat decent balance between utility and damage and not because Forceful Greatsword buffs its DPS to the high heavens. Comparing it to the “one trick pony” setup of every other weapon except for Longbow and maybe Sword should make the reason why it’s the number 1 choice of most power warriors obvious.
I think most warrior skills need rebalancing if we want warrior to have a future in any kind of PvP setting.
A pull on GS4’s return trip would be an improvement, but I don’t think it would be all that useful. The projectile is far too slow and too likely to be destroyed for it to really make much of a difference. Seriously, when I use GS4, I don’t expect it to hit the enemy beyond the initial throw (assuming that even hits).
In my opinion, a better upgrade to GS4 would be to remove the boomerang effect entirely and keep the horrible projectile speed, but move the cripple to the final hit of GS1 and replace it with a knockdown. That would let us use the skill to chase down runners as originally intended, but as an added bonus, we would also be able to use it to setup GS2.
Heck, while I’m at it, GS5 should have a leap, and GS2 should have evade frames for at least the first half of the channel (EDIT: Before anyone cries OP, that’s only 1.75s of rooted evade. Compare that to other channeled skills that also give evade). Doing all of that would make GS a completely self-sufficient weapon with enough utility to get a skilled warrior through just about anything. Then we could work on bringing the other weapons up to the same standard.
But that’s probably not gonna happen.
(edited by Xalzor.5047)
Eh… a number of us who’ve written, probably excessively, in support of baselining Fast Hands have identified eliminating FH and reworking the weapons and traits as a valid alternative.
Making FH baseline is just way less work and less prone to a long rebalance period. So given Anet hasn’t even responded to calls for the “easy route”, never mind implementing it, the more extensive rework you’re proposing seems even less likely.
Aye, I know baselining Fast Hands is a topic that has been explored a lot, and by players much more knowledgeable than myself, but I have only just recently come to this particular conclusion. What can I say? I’m stubborn and won’t make any conclusions until I feel I’ve examined every possible scenario available to me. Plus, I’m going on indefinite leave from the game until balance is better, so now seemed like a good time to post my thoughts.
As for the likelihood of them extensively reworking the skills… you’re right, I don’t actually believe they will. Too much work for too little payoff. I do believe that it is needed, though, so I would love to be proven wrong on that account.
A man can dream.
Tl;dr: Relying on Fast Hands is a problem, not a solution. Weapons should be upgraded/balanced to be individually useful. Weapon swap should be a choice, not a requirement.
Greetings, Ladies and Gentlemen.
I am Xalzor, 3-year warrior main and guildless Kaineng roamer. This, my first post, is the conclusion of the observations I’ve made during my struggles to make my warrior an effective combatant again. In it, I will discuss what I believe is the core problem with warrior and the reason we are now being quite literally out-classed by nearly every other profession in the game. Specifically, I will be talking about Fast Hands.
It’s no secret that the vast majority of viable warrior builds include and rely on Fast Hands. Why? Because our weapon skills have clearly been balanced around it. We warriors have been built to combo off of two weapon sets by using a few key skills on one to setup skills on the other. The evidence supporting this is overwhelming. Not only do certain combinations work especially well with each other, but the lengthy cooldowns and substandard effects on our best weapon skills actively encourage us to swap. No one in their right mind would camp hammer, for instance. And therein lies the heart of the problem. We need to swap, and often, between our two sets if we want to be anywhere near as effective as other classes can be on a single set, and so we need to trait for Fast Hands. We don’t have a choice.
The solution? Some would say “baseline Fast Hands”, and while I agree that this would fix a few issues we face as a class, I believe it to be insufficient simply because it does not address the myriad of other problems weighing down the warrior, and dooms all of our future weapon skills to mediocrity because “you can swap to compensate”. No, I propose a more radical solution – get rid of Fast Hands entirely.
Please put down the rifle and hear me out. You can gunflame me later.
What I want is to see warrior weapons get upgraded. I’m talking about lowering cooldowns across the board and reworking one-purpose setup skills to be more relevant in relation to the rest of the skills on the same weapon. We are supposed to be the weapon masters of Tyria! Why then does it seem like every other profession is better at using their weapons than us? Each and every weapon should have a rotation, and fill a role, all on its own. If I want to burst with my greatsword, I should be able to do that with just my greatsword. If I want to swap to hammer, it should be because hammer will bring the skills and utility I need for this particular fight. Not half the fight, not the first few seconds and then it’s dead weight for the rest of the fight – the whole fight. It works that way for other professions, why not us?
Think of it this way: if each individual weapon was able to bring, in its own small way, the utility and support that we need to be effective, and each of said weapons was balanced specifically with the idea of being used on its own for at least 10 full seconds, then we would be a much more effective class as a whole. Inter-weapon combos would still exist, but they would no longer be the only trick we had up our gloriously armored sleeves. In effect, we would be true weapon masters – being as capable (or more so) at using each weapon type as other professions while also being able to use more types of weapons. Implemented properly, we could even gain enough utility out of our weapon skills to be able to slot something other than stances and survive! That opens up all kinds of build possibilities.
I’ll give an example. Keep in mind that this just an example and not a direct translation of what I’m asking for. Let’s take the most obvious offender – hammer. Hammer has a reputation as the CC weapon but completely lacks any way to take advantage of the CC it dishes out. All the skills are painfully slow, deal less-than-impressive damage for their cast times, and have cooldowns longer than most fights a glass warrior will have. What if we cut all the cooldowns in half, sped up the auto-attack chain, made Fierce Blow into a spike damage skill, and Hammer Shock into a leap? What about greatsword? Imagine how much more useful it could be if Bladetrail and Rush could effectively close gaps, or if Hundred Blades didn’t require absurd setup to actually hit someone not AFK. Now couple all of that with the ability to use utility skills for actual utility instead of required burst survivability, and you have my dream.
What do you think? Too OP? After seeing the skills of other elite specializations, I have an entirely different perspective on what is and is not “OP”. Anyway, your adrenaline must be maxed by now, so go ahead. Fire away.
(edited by Xalzor.5047)