Guild Wars 2

Yes they did answer. They said that the expansion is 45 euro. Something we can already see but simply don’t agree with. Maybe we can’t do anything about it. But around page 60 they said they will keep out opinions and suggestions in mind. We’ll see. All we can do is wait.

DeadReaper.6527:

How can you say that hot will not be vast? Are you the only one who got secret info on the game? Did you know that maguuma jungle is 3 level for each map? This meens that you tripple the area by scalling up, it may not be as vaste has the core game but it can be a decent area for an expansion.

Maybe, maybe… But I’m not talking just about map size. I’m talking about content as a whole. And if you compare GW2 to HoT I doubt they will have even close to the same amount of content. As you said – it will be a decent area, but not worth the same price as the core game.

Seera.5916:

1., 2., & 3. It costs that much because that’s what ANet values HoT at. They do have an issue of not communicating enough details about HoT for everyone to see it worth that much.

4. It’s not false advertising. You still need the base game to play HoT. They’ve just bundled the two together in one key. Not having something in place to quickly copy & paste onto the forums for those who did purchase withing the past 30-60 days was the mistake here. To me, they also still haven’t officially announced that because it’s not on the official forum. ANet needs to learn to post things on more than just every site but the official forums. We shouldn’t have to post a link to a post on Reddit from a dev about what they are doing for those who purchased recently. It is however shady given they’ve done sales of the game recently.

…

Yes, they valued it at 50$. It does not mean that it is worth that much to the player. We just don’t know yet. That’s why I suggest waiting.

Yes it is false advertising (in a way). They said “You need to have the core game to play HoT”. They put it on sale so people can get it and eventually get HoT as well. But now they say “You didn’t have to buy GW2 before because now we are giving it for free if you pre-purchase HoT”.

abc.5790:

My bad, I didn’t know people on here were ignorant on the price ranges of gaming expansions. Is this your first game?

$50 is reasonable because it is within the range of a typical expansion.
$5000000000000000 is unreasonable though.

Which other game costs 50$ and then has an expansion or dlc that also costs 50$? Even if there is 1, why should GW2 be the same? GW2 is vast and HoT will be a small part of that. So no… 50$ for an expansion is not reasonable.

Let’ review.

When Arena Net announced the pre-purchase of HoT the community was divided. Those who accepted and those who didn’t. Here are the problems:

1. The price – The expansion costs 45 euro. If you don’t have the core game you get it for free (or so they say). When the game came out it also cost about the same. So why does the expansion cost so much if it is only an expansion?

2. The amount of content – HoT < GW2. There is simply no way that an expansion has the same amount of content as the core game (without updates). We know of a few new features and nothing else. That brings us to…

3. Lack of information – Most of us can’t just buy the expansion for such a high price without any information on what we are buying. At least this can be solved by simply waiting.

4. False advertising – Before announcing HoT Arena Net told new players that they have to have the core game in order to play the expansion. The made people buy the game in order to get into the world of GW2 so they can be prepared when the expansion comes out. They put the game on sales throughout the past year to make the game more appealing. Now people who bought the game more than 30 days ago (or didn’t use the site) can’t get their money back in order to buy the expansion and get the game for free.

5. What current players get – We don’t know exactly what the expansion will include. All we get are sneak previews. But we do know that there will be a new profession. But we don’t get an extra character slot with the standard pack. We have to either: already have a free slot; buy and additional slot; delete a character; in order to play the new profession. That is a slap in the face for people who spent time developing all their characters and can’t afford to spend even more money for a new slot.

6. Poor communication – This has been going on for days (almost a week) and there has been no response what so ever on the issues that people have.

(feel free to add if I’ve missed something)

So what do we want? Well I can’t speak for everyone on this but what I want for my 45 euro of unknown content is: a character slot, some gems. That’s it.

Pifil.5193:

I don’t think they will post a reply. I think that they’re hoping that the upcoming patch will defuse the situation for them. They’re hoping that people will become distracted by something in the patch and go post about that instead. They may post a reply if that doesn’t happen.

…

I can’t get distracted with new patch content if I don’t play. And I urge everyone to stop playing. Just to see what happens.

Flatley.1620:

OK, to clarify a little… an expac only option for about 30 quid cheaper. Without having to rebuy the base game again.

According to ANet, you don’t rebuy the core game. You get it for free if you don’ have it. The expac is 45 euro (overpriced much). That’s one of the problems – content to price ration.

Flatley.1620:

I’m still of the mind that there should be an expac only option.

There is. If you have the game you get expac only. That’s the option.

Will they finally admit they made a mistake? No, I don’t think so. I don’t think they will ever publicly admit they made a mistake. Why? Because that would show weakness. Showing weakness would cripple them. If that happens we would know that if try hard enough we will get what we want. They are still making money for the moment. Even when the money flow stops they still won’t admit anything. What they would probably do is put the expansion on “sale” with maybe 30% discount. But they will never say that that is the actual price, that they were wrong in the past (now). We must keep that in mind when the expansion goes on sale, it WILL happen, it can’t not happen. This might be the biggest thread with almost 100 pages, but it is not the only one. And the forum is not the only place with such threads. They very much know why we are unhappy. Some of us understand what they did, some of us are just upset and think it’s unfair. They know this but will never admit it. But it is critical for them to change something. Otherwise a lot of people will stop playing, they will stop promoting the game to friends who don’t have it and the player base will decrease. Very few player will remain.

Now let’s reach the 100th page… Maybe then they will post some sort of a reply.

I should not have mentioned the seasons… You keep picking the little things. Are you forgetting that the entire world of GW2 is considered content? But anyway, we are getting of topic. The point is that ALL the GW2 actual content + ALL the updates is pretty big for only 50$ and no sub fee. But now we pay the same amount for less content than the initial GW2. If we view GW2 with no updates it will still be much bigger than any non sub fee mmo that I know. GW2 with no updates is still bigger than HoT. So why the same price? Inflation? Who knows? Who cares? Sorry, I’m Libra. I’m looking for a certain equilibrium.

HoT content < GW2 content
so
HoT price < GW2 price

Since we don’t know exactly how much content we will get with HoT, we can’t say if the price is right. But surely it is not more than the core game, therefore… we have this super long thread.

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

Sorry but are you crazy?! Living under a rock or something?! Lack of content?! I’m actually sorry I stopped playing for awhile because I missed half of seasons 1 and 2. But if that is too little for you I can’t help you. I don’t know any subscription free MMO that offers this much content.

Ronah Lynda.2496:

Hey, A-Net has put out a new game. Yeye! Its called Heart of Thorns so they can sound similar to Hearthstone and confuse people which one is which. Got it? / blink blink

Now, the new game from A-net, Heart of Thorns is a new b2p MMO which brings nothing new to the genre, actually its completly similar up to indentical with Guild Wars 2. So, if they sold GW2 based on GW1 famous name, now they stick this GW2 name on their new game to increase the sales

/sarcasm

What I have learned from people on the internet is that they don’t understand sarcasm, even if you write “This is sarcasm”. Many people here have started to believe what you wrote to be true – that HoT is something different, a stand alone game.

From store page:
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Expansion is not stand alone game! Expansion is extra content to a game. If they are selling the expansion for 45 euro and the core game is free, the price of the expansion is way too high for what you are getting.

That was just to clarify in case someone takes your sarcasm seriously.

I guess you have not read a lot of posts. This has been addressed multiple times and a character slot is one part of the problem.

Razor.9872:

Well, technically you would be paying $50 for the expansion and all the “free” updates coming to the game afterwards. So that 50 is well spent. On another note. Understand that A-net cannot lower the price further than $50. They had that price set for them by an outside source.

Look like we can’t understand each other. 3 years ago we paid 50$ for the whole game + free updates. The game included tons of content. HoT will not include that much content (at first at least). So that’s why I think we should not pay the same price as someone who just bought the game. Technically it’s like this:

Before
old players get: GW2 + updates till now = 50$

Now
old players get : HoT + updates in the future = 50$
new player get: GW2 + HoT + updates in the future = 50$ (I’m fine with this)

But HoT < GW2 and yet we pay the same for both. This is what I’m not okay with. When updating you should get more so that:
HoT + some stuff = GW2

stof.9341:

matrix seishin.5312:

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

It’s all fun and games until someone goes to prison :p The fine line between “illegal” and “loop-hole”

Also, on a pure PR point of view, when your company does something, then customers complain they are treated unfairly. If your answer is “it’s not illegal, it’s a loop-hole!” you might find yourself with fewer customers in the short term.

Wait… are you suggesting I’m defending them?! It’s simply an observation. They are legally obliged to provide information about the purchase. As far as they see it, that’s it. Whether the information is clear to the consumer, they don’t care apparently. Which is wrong. The unclear information, the lack of a response – they don’t speak good about ANet and NCSoft.

I want only two things:
1. Lower the price of the standard pack to 35 euro
2. Give a new character slot with the standard pack

Who is with me?

mrstealth.6701:

I decided to show the information from the HoT pre-purchase page and FAQ to my mother, who has been done work in the main offices wholesalers and retailers for over 30 years. Everything from a billing clerk to now running her own business.

Her reaction to the information on the HoT per-purchase page was confusion because of the lack of clarity. And the reaction to the actual facts of who does/doesn’t get the core was simply “that’s illegal”.

It certainly wasn’t a surprise to me, as I feel the same way. I do have some knowledge of the subject from working with her in recent years, but not decades of experience.

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

In that case I guess the only way to make them listen is to STOP… but not with the posts. I declare Monday, 22th of June the day we stop playing GW2. When they see the massive drop in player base, they will listen. Spread the word. Even if it is only for 1 day, let’s just stop, all of us. Stop buying in-game stuff, stop their in-game economy, stop their player base, blow the forum, blow the system.

Everything that can be said, has been said. The question now is: should we stop posting the same things over and over? I think so. They obviously made a mistake. They can’t change anything this soon. They’re just playing it cool. They still make money off of this… for now. When the money stops, then they will change something.

Torgan DeBaku.9534:

…

But one thing I guarantee you: not too far in the future ANet will make changes to GW2, based on new tech injected with HoT, that WILL force you to buy HoT.

GW2: HoT is the new GW2 ANet wants to establish as their foundation and they will kill the old one slowely untill only GW2: HoT players are left.

If they do that, they will lose a lot of players. They will be crippled but they might get back up. However the loss will be too big to risk. I get what you said, I simply don’t agree and don’t believe that that’s what they’ll do. To keep old players they should offer them just a HoT upgrade for a lower price. That way future player will buy the new GW2:HoT directly for 50$ and old players will extend GW2 to GW2:HoT for 30$ for example.

Torgan DeBaku.9534:

Exactly. New cumstomers buy the new version. The “added GW2 for free” is a lie. Long time cumstomers already playing have to buy GW2 “again” in the form of GW2: HoT as ANets simply does not offer a version to upgrade your “old” GW2 to the new GW2: HoT version.

Its like instead of releasing “Eye ot the North” the way they did – as a true expansion, lower price tag and all – they had merged it in to Prophecies: Eye of the North, a Propehcies 1.1, not offering EoT as an Upgrade / Addon. Imagine the kitten storm this would have caused back then.

Thats what they are doing right now.

I see what you mean and what you are saying is total bulls***. I bought GW2 and even after they release HoT, even if it becomes GW2:HoT I would still be able to play GW2 without HoT. I should not have to buy the game again just to play what I already have + a few more maps, a new profession & a bit more content. GW2:HoT will never be considered a separate game since it contains GW2. It’s like if I bought Half Life 2, and then bought HL2 Episode 1 and it had HL2 attached to it.

selan.8354:

lol good one.
i think it went more like this though

person 1: “so expansion will be 50$”

person 2: “Isnt this a little, well high for an expansion?”

person 1: “just tell them it comes with the core game. new players will love that.”

person 2: " what about people that own the game?"

person 1: " who cares , they will buy it anyways. They might get a little whinie, but they will get over it."

person 2: " Well we could give them a free character slot."

person 1: “you are fired.”

Lol, that last line

I think they get it by now. Old players are upset that they don’t get stuff equal to the value that new players get. It suck, I know.

Simple solution:
If you don’t like the price – don’t buy anything. I’m not, not yet anyway. Not until they change it to something I’m willing to agree with.

Torgan DeBaku.9534:

…

That is why it’s priced as high as a new title at $50.

Because GW2: Heart of Thorns now is GW2.

…

What you just said is that old players have to buy the game again just so they can play a more “complete” version.

Razor.9872:

That makes perfect sense in my opinion. You have had 3 years to trick out your awesome car (which has clearly risen in value). They get a crummy lemon with the potential to be as good 3 years from now.

If it’s compansation you want, then the only thing I can imagine is if they threw in an extra seat for vet car owners.

But really this whole shinannigan is just one fat overblown sense of entitlement.

I see your point. But in that case 50$ for the expansion is a bit much. It wont have the same amount of content as the game 3 years ago, but it is the same price. I can’t compare to GW1 since I didn’t play it. But I know that making new content got harder since then. A character slot and a 10$ decrease in the price would be perfect… I would settle just for slot too.

Razor.9872:

I have. Actually, just purchasing the expansion is the only option (excluding the other packages bonuses). Your analogy makes sense logically, but the semantics are off. You are going to buy tires, sure, but you don’t buy a whole new car — you just buy the tires. The difference is people who have not had the car up until this point are able to purchase the tires w/ the car for roughly the same price. This is fair seeing as your car is super tricked out by now and probably is loaded with goodies, while theirs doesn’t even have a sterio.

This is just one more example of poor communication. That’s the Heat of this Thorn-y issue (I’m sorry, I had too).

Not bad communication, simply unfair. You buy a car 3 years ago, spend time tricking it out. Now you buy new tires for the same price as the car was back then just because someone wants to buy those new tires but doesn’t have a car. That makes no sense. 3 years ago people bought the game and spent all this time developing characters. Now they want to buy expansion but they pay the same price as someone who does not have the game – he gets it for free just because he didn’t play for 3 years. Whether he gets it for free with 50$ expansion, or buys both separately for a bit more is the same in relation to his lack of development. New players get a discount, old players get the finger.

Ragnarox.9601:

I am waiting for fanboys to comment when expansion goes out , when they start to rage “where is my 50$ content you promised”

I read somewhere that expansion will go out on 31.12.2015 so this waiting is gonna be looong one.

That info is probably invalid but even if it is – WOOOW… fanboys have to wait half a year to know exactly what they paid for now. And what if they lower the price a bit in that time? There will be even more rage.

Razor.9872:

matrix seishin.5312:

Believe it or not, some of us understand. Here is the problem: 50$ for HoT is a bit too much considering GW2 was that price. Therefor, HoT must have about the same amount of content in order to have such a price. Furthermore, with buying an expansion with a new profession, there must be a character slot in case we don’t have free ones. Even more of a problem is that GW2 was on sale multiple times last year. They got HoT hyped up, people bought the game so they can play HoT later and now they find out they could have gotten it for free with pre-purchase. That is a marketing trick and I dislike anyone who uses such tricks to make money. It means they don’t trust the loyal players to keep playing and buying.

It is one they were forced to make. However, I do wish they would allow a character slot for those purchasing the base 50.

To be honest that’s my only problem. I don’t want to spend 25$ more just to get a slot + other stuff I don’t really need. I was going to buy HoT anyway, just not with this current deal.

Believe it or not, some of us understand. Here is the problem: 50$ for HoT is a bit too much considering GW2 was that price. Therefor, HoT must have about the same amount of content in order to have such a price. Furthermore, with buying an expansion with a new profession, there must be a character slot in case we don’t have free ones. Even more of a problem is that GW2 was on sale multiple times last year. They got HoT hyped up, people bought the game so they can play HoT later and now they find out they could have gotten it for free with pre-purchase. That is a marketing trick and I dislike anyone who uses such tricks to make money. It means they don’t trust the loyal players to keep playing and buying.

So after listening to what others have to say, here is the new opinion. Most people say that 45 euro (50$ or w/e) is the price for HoT only and that the core game is a bonus. That either makes them angry that the game has no value anymore or happy that it is cheap for new players to join. So from that I can conclude that the core game is just a bonus FOR NOW and when HoT is available new players might have to buy both. Even if this is true they fail to see the other problem. If HoT on its own is 45 euro – that price is way too high for an expansion if the content is not as much as the core game. When most older players bought GW2 it was about 50 euro and now the expansion is 45. For something that is just a bit short from the same price I would expect something just a bit short from the same amount of content. I know they worked hard for this but if the expansion and core game do not have the same amount of content, they cannot be worth the same price. We don’t know yet, so I suggest we don’t buy yet. Hold off your purchase until ANet releases more information and/or change a few things. The way I see it this pre-purchase is for people who don’t have the core game, NOT for people who do. So if you have GW2 DON’T buy HoT now on pre-purchase. Wait! You have to wait anyway. It’s not out yet, so we don’t know anything.

Yeah, you’re right. Sorry, clicked on the wrong thread…

So apparently some people don’t understand why most of us want at least 1 character slot with base pack. Here is why I want it: I don’t play all day, every day. I don’t farm gold fast and I’ve never bought gems or anything with gems. The only thing I gave money for is the game itself. I’ve had test characters and deleted professions I didn’t like. Now my slots are full with characters I play with. I don’t want to delete one of them just to TRY the new profession. What if I don’t like? What if it’s not better than the one I deleted? It is only fair to include a slot for people who don’t have any free ones. This is my reason and probably the reason for many others.

Now to the GW2+HoT in one problem. It’s not fair that old players should buy GW2+HoT together since they already have GW2. HOWEVER!!! This is a pre-purchase. I suppose it is a promo for new players. When HoT is available it SHOULD be sold separately + slots for a lower price. Not saying it will because I don’t work in ANet, but this is what they should do. Right now old player also can take advantage of this promo and create new accounts. This is sort of a fake increase in player count for ANet which is good for them – more accounts = more players (but not really). We don’t have to buy anything just yet. We can wait to see what happens. I think right now they are annoyed by all this complaining since they might be planning exactly what I just wrote.

If they don’t fix this, I would probably still buy it, but create a new account. That’s a double + for them: buy product + new registered user. Then they can say that their player count is super high, but in reality it is not.

But currently my spots are full. If I buy HoT will I get 5 more slots since I’m buying a new core game? Or will I get no slots since I’m upgrading? If it’s the second case, it would be best to start a new account I think…

After considering my options I made this decision: I’m not going to buy HoT yet, not until at least an extra slot is included in the standard pack. Something else worth considering is lowering the price and EXclude the core game. If new people want to play GW2 + HoT they should buy them separately and old player can buy just HoT. However, if they don’t include an extra slot in the standard pack, I would probably still buy it but as a “new” player (the way I think most would do it).