Guild Wars 2

Kazim.2043:

Guys you made a mistake to accumulate all competitive WvW guilds of Europe to 2-3 servers, now you’re paying the price. Some of my members insisted on picking FS or Desolation on start, as they wanted to be on the winning server. And I said “No, I want no easy win, I want our guild to make a difference” and picked one of the servers which is less populated with large WvW guilds.

I knew there will be queues on FS, I knew there will be thousands to move there just to be able to say “I’m in FS and we’re the top EU server”, I knew Underworld will be at the middle, slowly get better and my guild will make a difference.

Now as a guild we’re enjoying WvW to it’s extends. Yes at primetime EB has long queues but whenever we decide to make a guild wide operation with 30-40 members, we can always find a map to do that waiting at most 15 min.

I sometimes think Free Transfers are evil as it moves random WvW players from low bracket servers to high bracket servers, but sometimes it’s a blessing as it helps servers like FS, Desolation, Gandara to divide their forces and spreads WvW competition to several servers.

Some competitive guilds I knew from past moved to Vabbi and that server is increasing on ranks rapidly from bottom. Some competitive guilds move to Seafarer’s Rest and that server started to push for top. Mine and other pretty nice guilds are forming up at Underworld and soon we’ll start to push up also.

I understand it doesn’t feel fair to leave a server which you already invested so much, but you should have thought that before going to a server, which is filled with WvW guilds, and breaking the competitive balance, you should have thought that before going for “easy win”.

Even though I feel pity for you, I’m happy if this would help WvW guilds to spread more and make this game more enjoyable, and competitive

Im actualy coming to underworld tomorow, trying to bring a bunch of people from different high-pop servers, so we will see how many I will come with

Selo.1250:

To bad i have a large guild that wont move becouse of WvW :/

Then you shouldent complain, its not peoples fault for wanting to be on the best server, so they can tell there friends, hey I play on FS, look at my kitten.

Selo.1250:

Why should we, players that havebeen on the same server since BWE1 move becouse alot of glory seekers comes to our server and ruins any consistancy in players and wvw groups we have?

Basicly every quality wcw player that spends alot of time in wvw and already well known on fs thinks the situation is getting kinda out of hand.

It was bad before, but after this weekend…

Well selo, stuff wont get any better, ques are going to get longer as more people flock to our server to be the best english speaking server in EU, I myself will be transfering to a low-mid pop server and trying to get stuff started there, I much rather play WvWvW when I feel like it, not when the ques let me in.

Also, whats the point of being the second best if your not contributing to it? As it is now que times make it so I cant even play, if I cant play I cant feel proud of being the 2nd best.

Time to move away from home

So QTRKOBRA you wont transfer? :’( You only win because ur playing in the second bracket, where riverside usually win, not tierd of ques?

Alright guys, I will be going through with this as soon as I wake up later today, going to bed now, will post here again with the relevant info, so check this thread later on today if you are still interested, as of right now I have no idea how many people will follow through with this, so it will be exciting

Alright guys, heres the thing, im going through with this when I wake up later on today, still go no idea what server to pick but ill get back to you guys with the relevant info, im going through with the transfer alone at this point, so it will be a totally fresh and new guild, if you guys are still up for it, keep checking this thread and we will sort it out.

And Rabidmax, the thing is arenanet cant really fix it you know, there is a cap which is bound to map-size, what we are doing will only serve to even out population across plenty of servers, it can only be positive both for the servers we are leaving and the ones we will transfer too.

Hi all, im nilco. I play on Far Shiverpeak and im getting tierd of 8 hour ques, I’ve been in talks with some individuals from desolation and we have decided to transfer to a lower pop server and make a WvWvW focused guild there in a kind of all-stars team, does this sound interesting to you? Are you tired of long ques, and looking to change server with your guild or just yourself?

We haven’t started transferring yet and dont even know where we are going, so look at this as a interest check, what we are looking for is guilds or individual players looking to transfer to a server for lower ques and a chance to get your guild into a WvWvW and have some organized matches, if this sounds interesting to you then ask your guild/friends and post here how many people you are and if you would be interested in transferring servers and joining a guild.

Well guys, anyone got a suggestion for a server? I suggested underworld before, but I dont know if thats the best option, so any suggestions?

Well, guys if we do transfer we can all get organized in 1 guild, and then take controll on the server we end up. Ask around your server and try to get more people to commit to it, im ready to transfer whenever, so if you guys wanna do it im game.

zarg.1853:

nilco.8457:

zarg.1853:

Have you single one proofs of a single canadiene guild? No.??

shut….

Have I said ANYTHING about canadian guilds? Shut up kitten, go re-read everything………………….

I address not has you but…,
Not on this post in the others you speak about it, 3/4 of your posts to pity you, my little furious Lol

haha you are so cute, I adore you my little wine drinking frog eater :-)

Hey, QTRKOBRA, thank you, we only win because we have more players during the night, just like VS wins over us because of the same reason I havent given up hope for FS either but the que times will not become better, I was thinking of Underworld as a server to transfer too, it is in the middle of the rankings and dont have no ques, seems like a good server to go to, but what server it is dont really matter very much, just that we get a few guilds together then make 1 big one and start winning WvWvW on the new server

zarg.1853:

Have you single one proofs of a single canadiene guild? No.??

shut….

Have I said ANYTHING about canadian guilds? Shut up kitten, go re-read everything………………….

Guys guys, im from Far Shiverpeak, not coming here to say anything bad but instead ask something of you.

If you guys are guild leaders or can convey something to your respective guilds it would be good. What im proposing is this : How about we all transfer server to a low-pop one, form a WvWvW focused guild and play with no que times?

On FS we have 6-7 hours ques 16 hours a day, im getting tierd of it, and playing against VS every week dosent make it better, so I ask, how bout we all transfer to a server and make a guild? Combine forces from FS and Deso to make a new top tier server

Arasuki, ELO rating is a specific system “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system” MMR is again NOT a specific system. We do not know if arenanet uses an ELO rating system we do know that there is a match making rating for every server tho, keep your stupidity to yourself!

Salnt, this is europe so im very aware that a world exist out of america, as im born and raised in a country thats not america. And getting more “offpeak” countries into my server is not something I can do, nor should I have to do so to fix problems in a game I have not created

Tygra, I picked those nights as they showed the biggest difference, if you look at the graph yourself you will find that every single night has a difference in VS favor.

Tzash.5748:

Couple of points:

- the graphs only indicate a queue. A map could be full with no queue, or almost full and not show up.
- the vast majority of people complaining about night capping are claiming that it is being done unopposed. The graphs do not show either way whether this is the case as they do not show population. If one server has 500 people in plus another 100 queued and another server has 475 in and no queue is that a night capping problem? The graphs do not say.

So overall the graphs are useful, but only when taken in context. Night capping is about the population INSIDE the maps, not those outside. You can make the claim that no queue means less people inside but you have no means to measure how many.

Well, its not that black and white. For there to be no que, the borderland cant by fact be FULL, or rather it can be PRECISELY capped, but what are the chances of that when there is no que for 8 hours? Very slim id wager.

If there had been a 1 hour window of no que we could say that it has been at 90% capacity, but 8 hours with no que tells us that the borderlands are nearly empty. We dont know the turn over rate for every single borderland player tho, so its hard to say. Some stay in a borderland for 10 minutes other 10 hours. But what we do see is a constant que during those 8 hours for the other server meaning constant 100% cap in the borderland map, we can agree on that yes? If not then check the graph.

And to other people saying that Anet should match servers with equal graphs I would say that it wont work. In WvWvW there are more factors then night capping, for example, river side has similar cover 24/7 as Viznuah Square, yet Far Shiverpeak beats them, its also about organization and average skill of servers, the problem is not an easy fix. I hope arenanet sees this thread and reads the opinions of the people in this forum and formulates a strategy to fix it.

Whats up everybody. Lately I have been very active on this forum telling everyone whats wrong with WvWvW and in rare cases giving suggestions to fixing it.

In this thread im about to show whats wrong with WvWvW, nothing here is going to be opinion, its FACT, dispute it at your own peril.

Many popular opinions on this board seem to be that the match making will solve all our problems, server with equal 24/7 coverage will be matched against each other, and other misleading stuff.

First attatchment :

Graphs provided by arneanet. You can find them in this sub-forum right here.

I laid Vizunah Squares and Far Shiverpeaks graphs over and under each other for ease of reading.

In the graph I laid red boxes over 2 distinct times. First box covers 12.13 AM (13 minutes past midnight) to 10.36 AM.

Second box is alot bigger and covers more then 12 hours. It starts at 9/17/12 10.50 PM (22.50) and ends at 9/18/12 at 12.00 PM (Midday)

If you compare the graphs its easy to see that Viznuah Square has fills there borderlands ALMOST 24/7. The significance of the graphs are this : If there is a line it signifies a que, which in turn means that the borderland is FULL, if there is no line, there is no que, thus the borderland is not full.

For example, in the first red box you can see that Viznuah Square has over 150 people in que for eternal battleground at 3:13 AM while Far Shiverpeaks has no que at all. Many of these differences can be found in the graph. I trust you will examine the graph in your own time and see.

Now for the second attachment.

This image pertains to the ladder system, the ladder is taking from the sticky on this forum. I imagine the image is self explanatory in what it conveys, but you cant be sure, so let me explain.

The numbers before the server is the match making rating (MMR from now on)

MMR is not changed by points in WvWvW, it is not an average. MMR is a pure win/loss ranking system, it is not affected by points in game. Many people seem to think so, but its not, period.

As the image shows, middle servers do not move, the server that is in the middle can change but a middle server will always be the one matched against, one with a higher MMR and one with a lower MMR.

So why wont everything get fixed by the system? Why wont servers who have 24/7 coverage get matched against each other? Simply because the system cant account for that. As it stands right now most servers have found their stable MMR, and have found the most balanced match up for them. The problem arises from server like my own fighting another server with much more players 24/7, this is the problem with WvWvW.

The graph is the clearest indicator of where the problem lies. In player numbers. The only reason I included the rankings and such was to illustrate to people like eliteseraph why the system wont solve anything, it cant. Its not a problem of wrong match ups clearly servers are where they currently belong.

And that my friends is all I have to say. ArenaNet needs to find a way to fix this, most people dont want imposed player caps on WvWvW or several instance borderlands, we just want a way to have matches be more equal, as of typing this Vizunah Square have a 156,857 point lead, the graph shows you why, now its up to ArenaNet to find a solution.

Stormcycle.4208:

We have a situation with Yaks Bend which is a full server with a large NA and Oceanic playerbase. This gives the server many more organized guilds because of population, and means they will have organized guilds going around the clock.

They have been paired with:

Darkhaven, a medium population NA server with no significant Oceanic playerbase.
Anvil Rock, a medium population NA server with no significant Oceanic playerbase.

Yaks bend is currently leading Darkhaven and Anvil Rock by 320,000 points.

On Friday night Anvil Rock was leading, we fought off Yaks Bend and Darkhaven simultaneously, recaptured all three orbs, and had a strong foothold across all four borderlands. Saturday morning when I woke up, all four borderlands were completely controlled by Yaks Bend. Its been that way every day since. We fight, we retake, we go to sleep, and its all Yaks Bend by morning.

A server like this has organized guilds running nonstop in WvW.

So what is your suggested solution?

His/their solution is for you to go out and organize your server, find oceaning guilds and force them to transfer to your server. Because night-capping is obviously a non-issue right? Its your fault your server have employed people, you all should quit your jobs!

At least thats what I’ve been told several times today in this thread :-)

albi.9518:

Pherenice.8124:

Vizunah Sqaure – Hero’s of the night – Runner’s from the light.

Oh man you french should wait when the serious WvW guilds can get some more guild members on the battlefield at prime time

Not much to brag about anymore ? its getting silent on the other side ? no more play ?

Please stop showing your face inhere and fight us at primetime like real men do, dont hide behind your night crew to show pics of scores.

Deso and Far shiver proofed the complete oposite of what your pro WvW guilds claimed.
Your nothing special and you should be ranked 6 or 7 on the ranking list.

Lets see what tomorow brings

Well I’d like to play but I’m working at the moment, to get money for my family, like real men do, right?

To my mind, the only thing Deso and FS proved is that they do not belong in the top of the ranking.

Haha frog eater you make me laugh , who could possibly take our place as the lap dog of the french imperial army of Gate Slaying?

Sounds like a better way then it is now, you addressed the biggest complaint I have, which is night players winning games by playing 4 hours a night.

albi.9518:

Just cap everything and get your keeps ready for the French prime-time in about 30 minutes

And stop talking about the nightcapers on this server, it makes no sense at all.

Everything is capped before the night crew come in, around 2am. There is nothing else to do for us so we usually end up in the Eternal Battlegrounds.

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG, everything is green at 4am CEST (paris time) before that its very blue and green.

gingertree.5062:

Mara Gossep.2761:

You wrote all that stuff above to dismiss my (unbacked) claim that match-fixing wont fix anything. My point is, you can neither proof or dismiss this claim. It is speculation whether it will fix matchups or not fix it.

Stage ichi! These are possible ideal solutions that will arise with the current system.

These are the options;
a) All the worlds conveniently stop any form of night capping
b) All the worlds suddenly produce 24/7 full 400 man forces
c) All worlds fight with even numbers during the night hours when they can

Do you believe there is any reasonable possibility of any one of these things happening for all 27 EU worlds. No? Good, continue reading.

Stage deux!
1) There are worlds who will have no night presence.
2) There are worlds who will have a night presence.
3) Rankings are not stagnant.
4) Worlds who have a night presence are not immune from being matched against servers who don’t have a night presence.

So you answered yes to all 4 questions. I’m glad we agree.

Where is the speculation, please inform me. If you have a reason to suggest this won’t occur then I’m literally dying to be informed about it. Anything other than that and you’re a troll, or someone who honestly doesn’t understand the difference between a possibility and likelihood.

The second half of your post is complete dribble, feel welcome to help me understand.

Thanks for understanding! The guy you are arguing with has a very thick head. I tried explaining it to him previously during the day but he just dont get it, he dont have the problem so obviously noone else does.

Mara Gossep.2761:

Keldrath.4735:

nilco.8457:

Keldrath.4735:

It’s the ultimate noob mentality honestly.

When a noob loses, they blame the game. I mean, it must be the game that’s at fault right? they could never lose because they are so uber mega awesome. So the game must be broken.

When good players lose, they say, why did we lose? and what could we have done better? Then they look for solutions. That’s what the top servers did. They saw a problem, and they solved it. They didn’t blame the game and demand things be changed.

So all you nightcap complainers out there can either stick with the noob mentality and blame the game for your own losses, or accept the fact that you are being beat by servers that are better than yours and work on getting better. Your choice.

Says the Hedge of Denravi bandwagoner, cheers.

Let me try it your way :

Why did we lose? We dont have the same amount of players in wvwvw during the night.

How can we fix it? Find people from other timezones to play. (or have arenanet find a solution, like limiting population according to demand to get in for example, but we dont want any of that, its noob mentality)

So the solution for everyone is, go out find yourself a guild from a different timezone and FORCE them to move to your server! If they dont want to, employ them or kill there familes to get them to come over and help you win in a game!

Right Hedge Bandwagoner?

I’ve been on Henge since the first moment the live servers opened for headstart boyo.

Just accept the fact that your server is losing to better servers and get over it. Those better servers will move up in the rankings then maybe the next matchup you will cry a little less.

Higher population at right times = Better?
You make me laugh, hard !
You almost make it look like night zerging requires skill.

Quoted for great truth!

And dont feed the bandwagoner, he is obviously super skilled at WvWvW!

@Nidwin

Im waiting with great suspense brosefski.

freespirit.4291:

nilco.8457:

Friend, what you say I have never stated, im not asking for it to become “fair” in any other way then to even the numbers out, have a pop cap depending on demand, who could that possibly hurt? The only people that would hurt id tell ya is the people who relay solely on outnumbering the opponents, adding a way to force even numbers would not impose some big stamp of “balance” or “fairness” all it would do is level the playing field. It would promote the need of tactics, as opposed to zerging with bigger numbers. Has that ever occurred to you friend? No? Then sit down, relax and think about it.
….
I see your point of view so try to see mine.

Weren’t talking to me, but I have to say I find your point of view wrong and unfair.
What if for some reason the server you play against is more active (for example local holidays, vacations…)? Then their server will have to be represented by fewer players, kicking others that would normally play in the queues. Maybe they will be hurt?
So tell me, is your point “Forget about them. They are zergs, who cares if they don’t play? That’s even better for us because now we’ll have a chance to fight them with equal numbers.”?

Well my idea isn’t as simple as I wrote it. I would like them to have instanced borderland which would fill and open with equal demand, this would also remove hour long ques.

Example :
In total 450 people per server wanna play right now.

Instead of throwing them all into 1 WvWvW the system could split the 450 per server into chunks of 50 players, thus creating 3 instances. All point gains would be counted towards a central point hub if you will, you could see your potential points for the instance you are in and those points would be added to the grand total.

Now say there are 50 players from server A and B, but server C only has 25, the system would then not open an instance until server C got 25 more people. This would result in better battles requiring more tactics and cooperation.

Eliteseraph.4970:

I see your point of view so try to see mine.

I have seen your point of view already completely catered to with a completely fleshed out system and aspect of the game called sPVP.

Wait what? Your telling me I can capture and upgrade keeps and castles in sPVP? That I can do jumping puzzles and have siege weapons? Color me impressed, they must have added all that when I was sleeping!

Shadow.3475:

They will sooner or later face other servers with players that play 24/7.

No they wont.

To quote myself :

“Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated." – Nilco.8457

freespirit.4291:

nilco.8457:

And that my friend is where you are wrong, points in the WvWvW does not affect the match making rating. They are a scoring system nothing more, nothing less. The MMR is adjusted according to wins and losses, scaled by finishing position.

As you can see by the ranking there are 2 servers above 1800 MMR, when desolation lose this week, there mmr will go down, regardless of how many points they got, while our MMR finishing second will go up slightly because we won against desolation. Riverside will get more MMR and take desolations place, where we will beat them like always and they get knocked back down. Thus the circle has been completed.

The thing you dont understand is that we are at the point in the ladder where we belong, thus we wont move, thus the ranking system wont “fix” anything.

Now go away.

And that my friend is… just you speculating about the future.
Plenty of things can happen that will change the table. How can you say you will always be second? Have you thought that some of the severs below yours might get better at WvW (new players, players from other servers, experience, etc.)? Haven’t someone from your server said people stop playing WvW? Don’t you think your enemies now know your weak spot – night shifts?
Not sure if it is allowed but imagine this extreme example – the first and second server in the table don’t like your server so their big guilds decide to make a plot against your server, leaving you always at third place. This way you’ll get fewer points and at some point your server will become third in the table and then passed by the next strong server that is winning.

Why yes, anything can happen, but for a new server to topple us out of our secure second position much must happen, first they have to get through desolation and riverside (no to mention the 2 other teams in the riverside bracket) But as I see it, unless riverside beats us next week we wont be going anywhere in the foreseeable future (meaning the next 3 weeks) And Viznuah Square holds a position of hate amongst desolation and us.

Eliteseraph.4970:

nilco.8457:

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

I will try my best to contain my rage and explain the problem in a way even small children could understand.
OK so here we go…..

……That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

Oh we all understand exactly what people claim the problem is. But on the other side of the argument, you need to understand that the point some of us are making is that the fundamental nature of WvW precludes your argument entirely.

You guys keep repeating that the population imbalance diromg off hours players is somehow not fair.

We keep repeating that the game not being fair is the very nature of WvW!

If you want absolute fair matchups, Anet has provided you with an entire levelling and bracketed system with completely even number of people on each side, with access to exactly the same gear, and played at the same level. It’s known as: sPVP

WvW, as you may have noticed, is not even remotely similar to sPVP. Even with an absolutely equal number of people, you still have a wide range of players of all different levels and gear. The game might auto-level them to 80, but that doesn’t give them automatic access to full exotics with a completely tailored upgrade loadout, nor does it give them access to all of their trait points or skills.

So even at the simplest level of a random, 1v1 encounter in the open field, the game can not guarantee that the matchup is going to be even or fair.

And yet some of you guys are STILL demanding that WvW be evenly matched at all times. Do you not see the fallacy of basing your entire perception of what is fair and balanced solely on population numbers at a given time of day?

Ultimately we get it. We really do. Some of you guys don’t like having to fight against unfair odds. Most of all we understand that you really REALLY don’t like feeling as though the fate of your server is being dictated by a minority of players when you’re not even there to fight back.

But you guys also need to understand that THIS IS THE REALITY OF WVW!

It is the combined might, population, skill, coordination, and everything else that your server is or isn’t pitted against the same for two other servers.

If there is a strong night crew in your opposition, you need to either coordinate your own night people to fight back however they can, even if it’s only disrupting supply camps, or you need your day people to pull together and figure out how to take back what you can.

If you can’t beat people one way, then try something else. Coordinate your guilds to massively gear out your elite WvW teams. Farm for golems like we’ve seen in so many youtube videos. Deny everyone but your server access to the jump puzzle, and farm piles of badges in the process. Step up to the plate and do something other than complain to daddy Anet that it isn’t fair.

THAT is also the reality of WvW! Don’t you understand that this is the reason why WvW is so incredibly awesome? If you take away all of the uncertainty and built in imbalance and chaos, all you’re going to be left with is just one big fat oversized sPVP match.

And if that’s what you want, I suggest that instead of asking for Anet to change WvW, that you instead ask them to build bigger sPVP maps instead, and leave WvW alone.

Friend, what you say I have never stated, im not asking for it to become “fair” in any other way then to even the numbers out, have a pop cap depending on demand, who could that possibly hurt? The only people that would hurt id tell ya is the people who relay solely on outnumbering the opponents, adding a way to force even numbers would not impose some big stamp of “balance” or “fairness” all it would do is level the playing field. It would promote the need of tactics, as opposed to zerging with bigger numbers. Has that ever occurred to you friend? No? Then sit down, relax and think about it.

That its in some unimaginable way fun to be outnumbers because of uncertainty falls way above my head. If you want uncertainty start crossing streets with your eyes closed. Drive fast through intersections when the light is red. Pick a fight with the biggest guy you see. All of those things promote the uncertainty of your future life on this mortal realm, are any of them fun? I think not.

I see your point of view so try to see mine.

florence.1674:

Me and the girls went out shopping on a Saturday afternoon and returned to see all the keeps have been taken. How dare they take our keeps when we went out shopping! It’s not fair that we went to have a life when all of you nolifers stayed at home on a sunny Saturday to take keeps!

Really people, this is how seriously stupid whines about nightcapping is about. WvW is about 24/7 warfare. If your server can only put the people out for 6 hours a day, your server deserves to lose for 18 hours.

Afterall, do we ask generals to line their soldiers up at a stated time for a mexican shootout in real warfare?

Actually we did for over 300 years have organized battles, where soliders acutally lined up then charged each other. They also never fought during the night :-)

But discard the history lesson (educated) You are simple minded and feeble, oh ignore the insults.

WvWvW is not about who have the most players on during the night, after all “night” consists of 12 hours, there are 24 on a day. But “night” in gw2 is from 3AM-9AM which is 6 hours. Should 6 hours be all that WvWvW really is? Last time I checked 6 hours was not 24/7. Outwitted. Your argument is invalid and ignorant, I just turned your argument on yourself while still making more sense and having better points. Die in a fire.

Kingface.9781:

nilco.8457:

Kingface.9781:

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

And I keep telling you thats NOT how it works, the ranking is not based on actual population under a 24/7 period, its based on numbers ok? Not numbers as in how many points a server gets, but a kind of ELO rating.

There is a established ranking (stickied on the forum) taken from the algorithm, that shows the points of each server, this number fluctuates throughout a match, and the servers with the closest ratings get matched vs each other. As it stands now the rotation is at the top that the third server gets switched, the second remain the same.

In the middle bracket the top server and bottom server will be rotated out, until the point the top server reaches a point where it cant be rotated forward. Understand? No?

Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated.

You can be arrogant as long as you want and look like a raging whiner but the fact is you’re wrong. Yes, the amount of points that your server is being able to provide all the week long is a large part of the calculation to the end.

Stop trying to look like a smartass, you’re not. What you explain is so basis thinking and falls so within the meaning, I don’t know why I keep arguing with you…

And as for you kingface. Its obviously not basic thinking for you, as you still dont understand. You dont grasp the basics of a ladder, and as such a ladder seems to reach way above your head (get it? ladders are taller then you, and people in general)

Anyway tell me using the above format provided in the quote of me and explain to me how the ranking system will fix this, dont type your own kitten, use the template I used. Go ahead, im waiting.

And also, I argue with you because you amuse me, the same way a cat playing with a roach amuses the cat.

Kingface.9781:

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

And I keep telling you thats NOT how it works, the ranking is not based on actual population under a 24/7 period, its based on numbers ok? Not numbers as in how many points a server gets, but a kind of ELO rating.

There is a established ranking (stickied on the forum) taken from the algorithm, that shows the points of each server, this number fluctuates throughout a match, and the servers with the closest ratings get matched vs each other. As it stands now the rotation is at the top that the third server gets switched, the second remain the same.

In the middle bracket the top server and bottom server will be rotated out, until the point the top server reaches a point where it cant be rotated forward. Understand? No?

Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated.

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

I will try my best to contain my rage and explain the problem in a way even small children could understand.

Okey so here we go :

Lets assume that a wvwvw allows 100 people per server, per map. Thats 400 players from any server at any time.

20.00 Primetime.
Server A : 400 players (100 each map)
Server B : 400 players (100 each map)
Server C: 400 players (100 each map)

This could be called a “fair match” right? even numbers, not counting people afk in the maps or doing jumping puzzles, but the numbers are even right?

03.00 (night time)
Server A : 70 players (split across 4 maps)
Server B : 400 players (100 each map)
Server C: 65 players (split across 4 maps)

Now all numbers are pulled out of a very nice top hat, and its obviously not official numbers.

But by the illustration or indeed example, a smart man might see the problem. Its alot easier taking a keep with 100 players vs 20 then it is taking a tower with 100 players vs 100 players, right?

To spell it out : When WvWvW population is even, during primetime for example, its alot harder for any single server to take 100% of the maps, its also alot harder to take a single keep/tower.

But during the night when then numbers are not even it is much more simple, no defenders require smaller numbers to capture stuff.

That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

Kingface.9781:

nilco.8457:

Oh kingface, your ignorance is only trumped by your arrogance.

We obviously have a 24/7 presence but not like Viznuah Square, and that is the problem, the game should NOT be won because of a couple hours during the night, 24/7 is supposed to be 24/7 not just 8 hours of night right?

If all matches get won between 2am and 9am thats not 24/7 is it?

Please think before you post.

You should be less blinded by your would-be rocking skill of #2 because when you will be beaten by another 24/7 server than VS, you will surely come here and whine for unfairness once and again as usual. Because, yes it will happen and sooner you can think.

Anyway, I let you trust whatever you want. I don’t have much business with troller like you.

Troller? get real.

And bring on servers that will beat us out of our second posistion, you still have riverside and desolation to knock out of the rotation, bring it on.

Keldrath.4735:

It’s the ultimate noob mentality honestly.

When a noob loses, they blame the game. I mean, it must be the game that’s at fault right? they could never lose because they are so uber mega awesome. So the game must be broken.

When good players lose, they say, why did we lose? and what could we have done better? Then they look for solutions. That’s what the top servers did. They saw a problem, and they solved it. They didn’t blame the game and demand things be changed.

So all you nightcap complainers out there can either stick with the noob mentality and blame the game for your own losses, or accept the fact that you are being beat by servers that are better than yours and work on getting better. Your choice.

Says the Hedge of Denravi bandwagoner, cheers.

Let me try it your way :

Why did we lose? We dont have the same amount of players in wvwvw during the night.

How can we fix it? Find people from other timezones to play. (or have arenanet find a solution, like limiting population according to demand to get in for example, but we dont want any of that, its noob mentality)

So the solution for everyone is, go out find yourself a guild from a different timezone and FORCE them to move to your server! If they dont want to, employ them or kill there familes to get them to come over and help you win in a game!

Right Hedge Bandwagoner?

Oh kingface, your ignorance is only trumped by your arrogance.

We obviously have a 24/7 presence but not like Viznuah Square, and that is the problem, the game should NOT be won because of a couple hours during the night, 24/7 is supposed to be 24/7 not just 8 hours of night right?

If all matches get won between 2am and 9am thats not 24/7 is it?

Please think before you post.

Kingface.9781:

The snowball effect will disappear when the current ranking system will be done with 1-week matchup cycle, when servers being able to keep 24/7 fight will match each others.

No it will not. I play on Far Shiverpeak, the second best EU-server. Who do the second best get matched against? The first and third. We never come third nor do we come first. The third is ever changing the first and second are not.

Get a clue before commenting.

Also the snowball effect, is due to mechanics, not matching.

Noone is asking for Anet so shut down WvWvW during the night. Im asking them to fix a major problem. How they fix it is up to them, if they want to shut down wvwvw during the night then fine.

All I have done is watched and played wvwvw since the game launched, and started compiling my “bogus” study.

I do not for the love of me understand how you can sit there and say that everything is fine, all players just need to quit there jobs or start working really odd hours so we can play WvWvW during the night. To me that is ludicrous and unreasonable.

Obviously all this must have been foreseen by ArenaNet and they must have a plan to fix it, to say that there is no problem is ignorant and frankly quite r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d.

mcl.9240:

nilco.8457:

mcl.9240:

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

Wait what? Are you by chance r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d?

“You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.” And there you sit making such claims yourself? What the mother kitten hell?

The problem as I see it is that during the night many servers WONT fill 4 borderlands, the servers might say “full” but the players aren’t in WvWvW, and as a player there is NOTHING I can do to make them join and fill the WvWvW.

And to the people saying we just need to wait 1 week to be rematches, thats NOT how the system works. As the second best EU server we will NOT get matches against anyone other then the nr.1 and nr.3 server.

Ignoring your abusive comments, if your server is claiming that the WvWvW is full and you don’t have the actual population cap in your maps (and I’m sure you’ve personally run the breadth and depth of each and every map numerous times, counting heads to verify this), then use the in-game reporting to file a bug.

However, they’re already aware that WvWvW queuing is broken, and they’re going to implement a fix soon. That’s the official word.

Until then, the only thing you can do is be patient.

I do stand for my abusive comments. And so far they hold true.

Where have I claimed WvWvW was full but not the right population? Re-read my posts please. What I was saying was that the SERVER might be labeled as “full” 24/7 we dont fill a single wvwvw borderland after 2AM, where as Viznuah Square do. This results in having the “outnumbered” buff to show that this is infact the case, and I every night go in every borderland and have that buff, thus validating my points.

So before you comment further re-read the thread and get a grasp on what is being discussed before you comment :-)

Also, all is well that ends okay so ill end this with a f you, but have a nice day :-)

mcl.9240:

Slamz.5376:

Lax.4730:

You guys need to chill out. The servers will be re-matched and the large servers with 24 hour populations will end playing each other each week..

That balance didn’t occur after numerous 1-day rounds. Why do you think a single 1-week round with fix it?

Players keep transferring so there’s no guarantee that a server that did well last round and got promoted to a new tier is actually justified in being there. Similarly, there will be lower pop servers dropping down to lower tiers who will suddenly dominate because a few big guilds moved there to avoid the queues.

Server balance will remain in flux until free transfers are ended.

Numerous? There are 24 NA servers. That’s 120 possible combinations.

There have been 10 server groupings since launch.

That’s hardly “numerous”, and not nearly enough for the matchmaking system to have settled into stable groupings. The fact that free server transfers are still enabled compounds that problem.

Wait 3 months, or more. Then complain about groupings. But not while the groupings are changing for almost every server, every time the groupings have the opportunity to change.

This thread my friend is not about “most” server it pertains to top servers, where this problem happens. As I previously stated as the nr2 ranked server we arent going to be matched against anyone other then the nr1 server and nr3 server.

mcl.9240:

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

Wait what? Are you by chance r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d?

“You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.” And there you sit making such claims yourself? What the mother kitten hell?

The problem as I see it is that during the night many servers WONT fill 4 borderlands, the servers might say “full” but the players aren’t in WvWvW, and as a player there is NOTHING I can do to make them join and fill the WvWvW.

And to the people saying we just need to wait 1 week to be rematches, thats NOT how the system works. As the second best EU server we will NOT get matches against anyone other then the nr.1 and nr.3 server.

Davion.8754:

First full week and 2/3rds of the servers will be faced with losing, these people are trying to rationalize defeat.

I doubt these people will make it to the end of week two so by then everyone should be able to grasp that the game will not shut off at midnight because its bed time or some other rediculous notion and these people will already know that losing is the only time you get to learn anything.

By what you write I see that you are on a low ranked server not facing any of these problems, as such I will discard your text as utter nonsense.

So as many know the way the points currently work supports "night capping" This is well known and used by most top servers. Many people like myself have voiced the concerns about what would happen once we launch into week long matches, dreading the time would come.

Now here we are, knee deep in the week long matches, all my predictions where right even down to how many points the enemy would lead with.

Some pictures to illustrate the problems.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Hobs5h.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dS4hEh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uitwSh.jpg[/img]
These 3 pictures are taken during the first weekend of the 1 week matches, at this point the WvWvW had even numbers and we took the lead, we held it until sunday night where players had to go to sleep as they have to work/go to school the next day.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/COD9Wh.jpg[/img]
This picture is taken on tuesday, now we begin to see the effects of a server capping 100% of 4 borderlands each night for 6-7 hours.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/fIyzOh.jpg[/img]

Now this final image is taken today, 10 minutes ago, as of writing this Far Shiverpeak is in the lead with 280 potential points and 65% of the map, this is soon after peaktime for us, a gradual fall away of players will begin to happen and the Viznuah Square will capture 100% of the map later tonight. This pattern repeats itself over and over and over. But its an uphill battle that cannot be won, why? Because during the night when we lose everything to 1 server there are next to no players in wvwvw, at peaktime all servers have approximatly the same numbers of players currently playing, this means much more resistance. And figthing from a 100% map hold you need to defend 2-3 posistions on any given borderland, which means easy defending, no roaming or anything just defend fully upgraded keeps and let the point lead climb.

Is this fun for anyone involved? I doubt Viznuah Square likes being ahead by 100k points, and I for sure dont enjoy being 100k points behind. For anyother server then Far Shiverpeak we would have to fight 1 week, then go back to winning, but Far Shiverpeak are cursed with being stuck in an eternal battle against Viznuah Square. Desolation gets relived by Riverside and gets to have 1 week of fun, us? Wake up everyday and login to a 100% green map and a spawn camp. Fun? I dont think so.

Even tho this post might seem whiny its not, im telling the tale of how it is right now for the second best EU server.

Is there a way to fix this? I do not know. And seeing that its not my job to do arena net’s job I will leave it in their hands, hopefully they will resolve the issue, because frankly, if WvWvW is the end game and the kitten is as it is right now, I might just have to put the game on the shelf for awhile, and seeing as its free2play that wouldent be so bad.

Honestly tho, I agree with ze french here. Im from Far Shiverpeak and proud of it.

But the idiocy seen when playing on FS is, well overwhelming. Today I watched 100+ people lay siege to bluebriar for over 7 hours, it was not until my little group of 15 people managed to get both supply camps and hold them for 2+ hours and pressure the garrison that the gate finally went down, we pulled away the majority of the french forces and turned the tide. Our taking of the supply camps ment that deslolation could get there keep back aswell.

If people use the 2 side exits in the base and do stuff like that we might be able to win, but bashing your collective heads against bluebriar for 7+ hours is justkitten You dont need to be a über player to find 5-6 people to go get a supply camp and hold it.

We got bluevale, setup 2 arrowcarts and 1 catapult and we held and destroyed over 120 french people, who attacked us for several hours. After we got bluebriar we got 3 trebs up and capped dreadfall bay. Use your brain and smaller numbers and we might beat VS.

During the weekend Disorder league hosted a 30 hour marathon and totally owned the french, but we cant be dependant on them being in the game. So start using all exits instead of mindless zerging.

EvilMaria.1483:

24h matches mean nothing…but yes. having 2 timezones on 1 server is fubar

24 hour matches mean nothing? Ignorance is bliss I guess. 24 hour matches are a preview of whats to come, Imagine this. 1 week matches start now on friday so again, imagine this.

Its VS vs FS vs Deso or Riverside. Match starts at 1AM, VS gets 3 orbs and all caps 3/4 maps, getting a 75k lead. FS/Deso/River peak time hits, we get back some of our lost stuff, regain 15k points each, now there is a 60k lead. 1am hits, no reset as the matches now will last 1 week, VS all caps 3/4 maps, getting 75k points. The lead is now 135k. This will go on until the match up ends. with 75k points gained between 1am-12pm.

Do you see the problem? FS, Deso and River cant all cap maps during peaktimes thus always being 60-70k points behind. Everynight VS all caps getting 60-75k points. Even if the matches last for 365 days it still wouldent be possible to close the gap. Do the math.

Thundernlightning friend, the server who are complaining are, Far Shiverpeak and Desolation. Second best, and third respectively in Europe at this time. We cant move to the top because we are already there.

Really guys? No Canadians? I play on far shiverpeak (represent yo) we are currently the second best realm in europe after Viznuah Square, and we stand NO chanse in hell. Why? Because they field 4 FULL WvWvW borderlands after every single reset, there is ALWAYS a que. I doubt Viznuah is home to unemployed french people who play 24/7 as that would be stupid.

Still, they cap all 4 maps within 2 hours of a reset, why? Because its full borderlands vs max 60-70 shiverpeakers and 30-40 desolation players. 2 days ago Viznuah beat us by 75.000 points.

And for the record, during Shiverpeak peaktime we beat the french and desolation 9/10 times, we can never close the score gap with dem canadians tho.

Also, I would like to extand a hand to any desolation player here, lets stop fighting each other and kill some french, oui?

Hi all.

I just created the guild A Zerg Got Zerged by A Zerg [Zerg] My goal is for the guild to become a big powerhouse in the wvwvw context, our goal will be to run around fighting guerrilla style and not as part of the zerg. We will be raiding supply camps deep behind enemy lines and setup defenses in keeps we own for the zerg to utilize. We will bring guerrilla tactics into the zergfest that is wvwvw. Once we got more members we can focuse on zergbusting in chokepoints or just generally mess people up, I started this guild because im sick of there being no orginization in our wvw and that we lose to the Canadians 24/7 do you feel the same? Then join me!

Does this sound interesting to you? Are you looking for a wvwvw guild? Type your ingame name here or come find me on shiverpeaks!

I dont have any requirements as of this point, the game is new and people can learn, I dont care if your lvl 1 or lvl 80, I dont care if you never played a wvwvw match, just hit me up here or ingame!

We will ofc be using VoIP, in the form of skype/TS3