Showing Posts For odysseas.1786:
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
You are assuming that he’s bad because of his gear. :P He and his friends may as well not wipe as you claim. Do not judge his skill based on his gear.
I’m not assuming anything. He could be very good and probably is a very competent player. The fact of the matter is he will eventually hit the point where gear limitations exist. MF gear is worse than its’ normal equivalent and I think any sensible person can agree on that. Hence he will have to get better gear or else he will wipe.
Correction: you assume he will (sorry, meant not offense but it’s true.) “Gear limitations” are tied to player experience, skills, Professions, and builds. There are no specific ways to conquer content other than being good at conquering it. Therefore, he may surprise you with his “inferior” gear, because of superior skill and teamwork/synergy.
Feel free to disagree, and it’s not personal.
Let’s assume john is the best gw2 player ever. He’s been playing all along, he knows every move, every cooldown, every boss telegraph and has godly dodging skills. He’s also running the optimal traits but is using MF gear. Now john here is really good. He’s gone where other couldn’t with the non-optimal gear. At some point though john will have to change his gear simply because his gear just won’t cut it anymore. It’s just impossible for him. That’s what I mean by gear limitations. Maybe john can clear a lvl 80 fractal. He will fail eventually though as harder content is released.
But this is according to your own opinion, sir, which is what I was trying to say. You think he won’t cut it once he gets to a certain point in the game, and I disagree on the grounds that you really don’t know that-you believe it, but it may not be true for him and his friends.
There’s good Ascended MF gear available out there, at least better than Exotic Explorer’s, Traveler’s, Wayfarer’s, etc. If they decide to add better stats (I hope not, but they might) they will probably increase the Ascended MF gear stats as well-but then again, by then they may have made this a non-issue, if they rework the whole MF thing as Mr. Colin suggested they were looking into.
In short, there are no gear limitations barring infusions. Optimal builds are a player’s point of view. No specific builds/gear are really required, especially since they depend on the player skill, Profession, and personal taste (AFAIK, infusions are the only quasi-gating system in place right now, not any other specific gear limitations, which are usually another player’s preference and opinion, and not really demanded by the game’s content.)
At some point it’s no longer a matter of opinion. The content is just too hard. Perhaps if all of his party had optimal gear they could pull it off. Also with utility infusions giving 20% MF they are a very attractive choice.
“Gear limitations” are tied to player experience, skills, Professions, and builds. There are no specific ways to conquer content other than being good at conquering it. Therefore, he may surprise you with his “inferior” gear, because of superior skill and teamwork/synergy.
Feel free to disagree, and it’s not personal.
You make a very good point about the importance of skill and teamwork, especially how they can overturn a deficit of gear, and I cannot agree enough.
However, you have to have a frame of reference to evaluate skill & teamwork. to evaluate these qualities, it helps to look at gear, since that is a variable that is able to be controlled. After all, if you have two characters that are the same class and are in the same gear, you have reduced the variables that can cloud an assessment of skill.
Gear is not the be all, end all. Many players, and other MMO’s have made that mistake, and look only at gear as a benchmark of skill. Gear is merely a modifier. If you have someone who is in the best gear possible, but is completely unskilled, they will doing reasonably well, through sheer brute power & random chance. Until they run into a skilled player in average gear. The unskilled player may get lucky, but they are more likely to be destroyed by someone who knows their profession & build. Give the skilled player better gear, or the unskilled player worse gear, and the gap in skill level becomes even more noticeable.
Which brings me back to MF gear. If you’re a bad kitten in MF gear, think how much better you’r be in non-MF gear.
Edit: Dang, the poster above me beat me to the point.
I fully agree. While gear isn’t all that matters,(I’ve seen bad players in top tier gear)it is a controllable variable and it does even out any flaws a player might have. For example I always carry a set of gear with vitality and toughness stats so that I can wear it when I feel like I won’t be able to dodge all the aoes or cure the conditions. If I know I’ll perform worse than usual I can even that out with gear. Imagine how much worse it would have been if my gear had lackluster stats.
Those arguing that mf gear in groups is not selfish are trolls, getting under your skin. There’s no way they believe their foolish comments. Just relax and watch them flail.
I’m not saying it’s not a selfish stat. It is, but just because some people choose to run sub-optimal build does not mean they are not contributing to the group and that they are being carried by the rest or leeching off others. If they can stay alive and do some damage and the job gets done, where is the kittening problem? It’s not a job where you have to fill a monthly quota in order to get paid and 1 guy is slacking off. It’s a kittening game.
If you did not specify in LFG that you didn’t want MF gear in your party then to bad for you, I will be wearing it. If the run goes smoothly I’will keep it on, if it looks like the group’s struggling I will change gear to help carry the weak link (I hate bad runs too). If you did not specify in LFG that you did not want MF in your party and then ask me to ping my gear after I have joined I will ping you my non MF set. Do the run and when it is over and you are saying good job, great run, I will ping you my awesome drops and my MF gear and leave.
Again you are not on the same playing field as most of us. Gear isn’t a problem in normal dungeons. Also you are the worst type of person for lying like that to 4 other people doing your share of the job.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
You are assuming that he’s bad because of his gear. :P He and his friends may as well not wipe as you claim. Do not judge his skill based on his gear.
I’m not assuming anything. He could be very good and probably is a very competent player. The fact of the matter is he will eventually hit the point where gear limitations exist. MF gear is worse than its’ normal equivalent and I think any sensible person can agree on that. Hence he will have to get better gear or else he will wipe.
Correction: you assume he will (sorry, meant not offense but it’s true.) “Gear limitations” are tied to player experience, skills, Professions, and builds. There are no specific ways to conquer content other than being good at conquering it. Therefore, he may surprise you with his “inferior” gear, because of superior skill and teamwork/synergy.
Feel free to disagree, and it’s not personal.
Let’s assume john is the best gw2 player ever. He’s been playing all along, he knows every move, every cooldown, every boss telegraph and has godly dodging skills. He’s also running the optimal traits but is using MF gear. Now john here is really good. He’s gone where other couldn’t with the non-optimal gear. At some point though john will have to change his gear simply because his gear just won’t cut it anymore. It’s just impossible for him. That’s what I mean by gear limitations. Maybe john can clear a lvl 80 fractal. He will fail eventually though as harder content is released.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
You are assuming that he’s bad because of his gear. :P He and his friends may as well not wipe as you claim. Do not judge his skill based on his gear.
I’m not assuming anything. He could be very good and probably is a very competent player. The fact of the matter is he will eventually hit the point where gear limitations exist. MF gear is worse than its’ normal equivalent and I think any sensible person can agree on that. Hence he will have to get better gear or else he will wipe.
So if I equip my Warrior in full clerics gear with a mace main hand and put all my traits in toughness/vitality to maximize my survivability with all of my skills to help me and me only will I be contributing more to the party that if was wearing MF gear?
All these arguments about MF gear being inferior than other gear are ridiculous. Gear does not make the player. It’s not as if dungeons are hard. I run with guildies and we all have full exotic MF gear on and get through them just fine. So our CoF path 1 took 10 mins instead of 8 or 5, big kittening deal.
If you don’t want MF in your party then specify it on LFG when assembling your team or build a circle of MF hating friends and run dungeons with them and quit running with pugs.
I don’t know you, you are not my friend, I don’t owe you anything more than a smooth run. Whatever gear I choose to do that with is my business and if I can provide that smooth run in my MF gear then you have nothing to complain about
To your first question yes. You are an absolute meatshield and while you might not have the optimal build you’re taking the hits and the rest of us can happily deal our damage. Now as to your other points. Yes as I said the game is easy. Yes you can give me a smooth run with your MF gear and I appreciate your basic knowledge of the dungeon and ability to play. Would I rather you be in normal gear? Yes. Do I mind? No. But unfortunately for you not everything is easy. Fractals are hard on high levels and while I can do a dungeon with 5 thieves it’s not gonna work out so well in fractals. Especially if they have MF gear. It all goes back to Anets philosophy of parties doing dungeons with w/e combination of classes they like. When you get to hard content like fractals there will be ways to do it and ways not to. You’ll need every possible resource at your disposal and MF gear is inferior by default. And no CoF path 1 isn’t the end game or hard content so your 4 warriors 1 mesmer all running MF will work just fine like anet intended.
Vitality doesn’t count as it is %health damage. Your accessories amulet and rings do though and if you have MF infusions on those you’ll die.
I don’t know a single mf person that runs high level fractals without the actual agony resistance infusions.
My point exactly.
Let me make a suggestion while we’re at it by the way. How about we have your normal gear and we go ahead and add one extra slot to it for MF. So top tier gear will have all the good stats without the useless MF plus a spot for a MF infusion or some new type of MF upgrade. You get your MF and everyone else gets a better experience because you perform better and contribute more.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
if you’re hit by the jade maw or agony your outfit doesn’t help you much, so I don’t understand, does vitality actually counter agony at higher levels, or how do people not go down in different gear than mf on jade? I mean jade is all about the crystals? Or am I missing something?
Vitality doesn’t count as it is %health damage. Your accessories amulet and rings do though and if you have MF infusions on those you’ll die.
Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.
These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.
Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?
Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.I know that this may sound strange to you, but not “most” people want to clear a dungeon as fast as possible.
Some prefer to have fun, and get the most out of a single dungeon run.
Totally agree, most times those who rushed through the content are the ones qq’ing about being bored and quit the game.
Rushing through the content is over. The people left are people who took it slow and really like the game for one reason or the other. Gw2 has great potential to improve but is still imo a great game.
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
I won’t be kicked out of anything, because I play with nice people that don’t kick you for stupid reasons.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
But for some dungeons you NEED to do better. Unfortunately very few are/are left in game.
Only high level fractals tbh. Maybe arah too but P4 was very easy when I guided a group of guildies through it a couple of weeks ago after the dwayna changes. High level fractals though you usually do with your guild who you trust or an experienced pug. In pugs they either gear check or kick weaker players. So you don’t really find people using MF there.
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.
That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.
And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.
So all MF users are better players, is that it?
Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players. Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.
This.
My solution would be to disable MF in dungeons. Maybe keep the nourishment/banner/booster bonuses but disable any gear bonuses. This way people can contribute to their full potential in dungeons and use their MF gear while farming (which is the way MF is intended to be used).