I’ll just leave this here because we could all use a good laugh and Anet obviously needs to be reminded why we got voted #1 in need of help by an overwhelming majority.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Ranger-Pets-Overpowered/first
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He’ll also get zero sympathy from other thieves. If you die to a Ranger, you suck as a thief, PERIOD. This is from a former Ranger main currently playing Thief (and why I want Rangers to be better).
Not really, I main a ranger and honestly, I love running into a thief since I’m pretty confident I’ll win 80% of the time. Thieves are fun as hell to fight as a ranger, except when they abuse stealth and backstab. But honestly, there aren’t many classes that can properly counter the backstab thief build. I have a level 80 thief and it’s painfully obvious that some of their builds are just plain OP.
People need to let go of the whole “if you die to a ranger, you suck” thing. Rangers need a fix and a few buffs, but we’re not a terrible class.
lol, no, you aren’t winning against 80% of the thieves 1v1. Nice try though…
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Hi Allie!
Can you do me a favor? Take your ranger to the lvl80 content please! (If you don’t have any you can ask one of the programmers to"cheat" you one)
Equip full ascended with legendary weapon. No-no, gear does not matter, it’s a choice of you!
Done? Great!
Now take this ranger to the new LA event! Do you know what’s going to happen?
1st second: entering combat
2nd second: your pet goes into combat
3th second: your pet dies
4th second: swap pet
5th second: set pet on passive
6th second: pew-pew
7th second: AOE incoming
8th second you dodge
9th second: your pet dies
Great, isnt’ it?
Now head to a random wvw map!
1, pew-pew
2, zerg incoming
3 your pet dies
4, you swap pet
5, your pet dies
Even if you keep your pet full passive on the ENTIRE content it dies.
Try this and tell us the story about your experience. Until you did not try our shoes you have no kittening idea how frustrating this bullkitten is.
#I no words have"
People need to let go of the whole “if you die to a ranger, you suck” thing. Rangers need a fix and a few buffs, but we’re not a terrible class.
The thing is, I run apothecary build thief, with only Shadow Refuge and Steal as my sources of Stealth, and Signet of Malice always on. I always kill a Ranger 1v1 unless the Ranger is also running regen build. Considering my damage is crap and the only conditions I’m throwing out are bleed and poison, this should tell you either every ranger I fight is crap, or Rangers as a whole are pretty much easy prey.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Now you plan on taking the spirits away and adding it to the kitten pet.
Someone else agrees with me! Removing the spirits diminishes the ranger’s roleplaying options. You might as well rename the vitality traitline if you remove spirits, because the spirits are the only “nature magic” a ranger does.
Just going to reiterate that making spirits automatically follow you, non-targetable, and dependent on the ranger’s health (not the pet’s) would be a much better solution.
The simple truth is that spirits in their current form are ridiculously toxic in sPvP. They require no skill and offer far too much passive power. The whole strategy behind the build is essentially to spam your auto-attack and to hide in the zoo clutter.
I don’t think that Ranger’s “roleplaying options” should be placed ahead of balancing the class.
Fort Aspenwood | [Bags]
My question is how can developer design rangers to not have burst and yet expect any of their power builds to be viable?
They said they wanted to make ranger more sustained but nerfed endurance regen for ALL ranger specs, including the weak power/offensive ones who depended on that endurance dearly for survival.
Rift let ya do it (Make your next spell instant, then pop the pet spell), DAOC let ya do it to some extent (Some classes this wasn’t viable, Bonedancers for example)
I’m trying to remember if I could resummon my Warlock pet in WoW, i think I could..its been a while (Looked it up, yea i could… 2 minute cooldown)
Warhammer Had Squig herders, and they had a fairly short cast time on pets (2 seconds) I don’t remember if I had to be out of combat to cast them…. I don’t think I did.
Most of these games had pets that were far far scarier then this games Pets.
Don’t forget guild wars 1, it had 2 skills that resurrected your pet quickly.
My memory is awful so I checked the wiki to verify but ‘Comfort Animal’ revived the pet, had a 1 second activation and a 1 second cooldown and ‘Revive Animal’ had a 6 second activation and a 20 second cooldown but it revived all allied pets.
Plus, pets in gw1 were brutal when used properly – there were so many times when I died first and I didn’t have to worry about letting my team down too much since my pet was there to save the day and murder things.
God I miss how the pets ‘grew up’ as they levelled.
Brotherhood of Blub [blub]
What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.
First off, thank you for replying. It’s gotta be tough wading into this thread and getting out alive. Bad 2×4 analogy aside, I’ll bite on this part of your statement.
The Core:
• Pet die too quickly in PvE content, high level fractals and WvW. Especially new/living world content.
• Pets offer limited utility unless heavily traited, or micromanaged.
• Pet damage plays too heavily in the ranger weapon coefficient and dead pets deal no damage giving too harsh a punishment to the ranger
• Pets are great on stationary targets, that don’t AoE or cleave, bad on anything else. Which, let’s face it, is 90% of content now.
• The best utility skills that use the pet – often kill the pet.
Listen, I’m a pet supporter, I chose ranger because I like pet classes. But the problem is more than just a 2×4. These are core, mechanical and gameplay flaws in the very design of the pet and the game it inhabits. You are consistently and constantly adding new content that are just anti-pet. No matter how you redesign the pet, the flaws are in the design of the game.
To use the house analogy: We’re worried about a damaged 2×4 in a house, when the entire neighborhood is changing. Our damaged bungalow is being built in a neighborhood of mansions and no matter what replacements we make, the house won’t fit in that neighborhood.
So let’s be honest. We’re not asking for a 2×4 fix. We want a new house. The changes the pet need are BIG changes that will take weeks, months and maybe even years to get where they need to be to be effective and fun to use. Will we wait for these changes? Yes, we’ve waited 1.5 years already. What do we need while you address the Core issues? Communication and small QoL changes along the way (even if they aren’t pet related). Without open and direct communication from you all, we’ll fill in the blanks with worst case scenarios. Without some changes along the way to the massive revamp, Rangers will get even more frustrated and leave.
I don’t think it’s out of line for the devs to prioritize a patch to be entirely ranger focused. I don’t think it’s out of line to have a patch, “The year of the Ranger.” where the entire patch team is laser focused on fixing the pets once and for all. Period. I know I’m biased, but I think the players will see the commitment you show on fixing a class that has struggled for a long time.
In the mean time, there are a lot of great ideas, made by smarter people than me on how to address the core issues.
Also Pet Aspects. Because it’s too good of an idea to dismiss outright.
(edited by Lobo.1296)
Also on a final note today, I want to emphasize an issue others have raised.. that pets are not able to receive food/tool buffs. While this is not a core issue, it is an annoying one for those of us invested in WvW/PvE. If this could be changed in the near future, it would be much appreciated.
no buff from food/tool + No “buff” from player gear/stats = We have less damage than all other classes.
Possibly a little tangential, but:
Specific Game Mode: PvE
Proposal Overview: Design and test Living Story content with rangers in consideration
Goal of Proposal: In the latest Living Story patch, rangers’ class mechanic can cause trouble with some of the content and hinder achievements (for example, pets being targeted by the lasers and causing damage to nearby players, or having damage done to or by pets failing achievements for the ranger.) This is not the first time this has happened (mines in Canach’s lair, toxic spore plants, etc.) and it can make it difficult to complete content on a ranger character where we have no control over the pet’s pathing or monster targeting, and imperfect control over the pet’s actions.
Proposal Functionality: Basically, I would just like the content designers to bear rangers, and other pet classes or class mechanics (such as engineer turrets), in mind when they are developing new content and achievements. I can understand that it will be challenging to balance or optimise every encounter for every profession since class mechanics can be so different. However, I think it would benefit both rangers and the playerbase at large if rangers and our pets were not actually a detriment to accomplishing goals, in some cases. I don’t expect to be everyone’s first choice to have along on every encounter, but I’d like to at least feel I am not actively hindering progress by participating.
Associated Risks: Potentially increased development or testing time for new encounters. In theory, encounters could become simplified or homogenised to the point of dullness but I feel like game designers are clever enough to find new ways to challenge players without making certain classes unwanted.
Laurelinde & Cookie/Beorna Bearheart
[TWG] – Gunnar’s Hold
Always remember Wheaton’s Law
[TWG] – Gunnar’s Hold
Always remember Wheaton’s Law
Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?
What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.
Not to be rude, but that analogy is horrible. The pet is not like a 2×4 breaking. As you’ve said, the ranger is balanced around the pet. This would be akin to a load-bearing wall giving way. The ranger pet holds up the ranger class and equalizes the load.
So what do we do? Replace the load bearing beam (here the pet) with a more functional beam, or do you just tell people to work around it and don’t look at it because you know it’s a broken beam, but you’ll get to it someday.
This is where rangers are. The load bearing beam has rotted. The structure is drooping. The foundation is not absorbing the load to continue keeping the house upright.
And you’re saying, “We’ll get to it eventually, but we won’t remove the beam. It’s a good beam.”
No, it’s a bad beam.
pet qq here…pet qq there…qq people from other discussions everywhere.
any other themes then our pets? its about the ranger in general and not just the pet
If you want other things to be discussed, bring them on the table. We had a discussion about the longbow just recently.
Fact is, that the pet needs the most help and that the devs are currently unwilling to do some major overhauls.
Ranger - Guardian - Warrior - Elementalist - Necromancer - Mesmer
EU Elona Reach – Void Sentinels
EU Elona Reach – Void Sentinels
The problem with putting Pet swapping in and adding Aspect, is that it turns Ranger into two different classes.
One that has no pet, another that has a pet. This time, they share the same traits, the same skills and Anet will have to balance the two for two different classes using the same format. If Anet balance around aspect rangers, pet rangers will be strong, or vice versa.
If both are easily interchangable, anet will have to balance for one class, the Ranger. Summoning and stowing pets will be the huge part of Ranger gameplay instead of swapping pets. There cannot be both or expect further impossible to fix imbalances in Rangers.
I don’t see how this would be any different to how they balance necromancers. Necromancers can choose to have minions (pets) or not to have them. Anet can easily balance both forms of gameplay, if minions are OP, they nerf them, if death shroud needs a buff, they can do this, too.
Brotherhood of Blub [blub]
Hey guys, guys guys guys
If there was a pet option that satisfy both pro-pets and anti-pets, Would you go for it?
It depends on what it was. I don’t agree to do anything blindly. Last time I did that I wound up under a table waiting for the world to stop moving and the voices to stop.
. . . I don’t want to talk about it.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.
First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.
This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.
The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?
No. Stop right there. It’s still a ranger, but without a kittened animal following it. For example: Tracker, hunter, scout, druid,beastmaster. The problem with the gw2 ranger (and every other RP game) that it’s too forced to make you take one of these paths. (Now you plan on taking the spirits away and adding it to the kitten pet).
Why limit one of the most diverse classes in RP history to being a beastmaster.
Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling…makes no difference.
The degree is arbitrary. The definition’s blurred.
If I’m to choose between one evil and another, I’d rather not choose at all.
The degree is arbitrary. The definition’s blurred.
If I’m to choose between one evil and another, I’d rather not choose at all.
I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.
The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?
The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be.
I just wanted to interject, it sounds like we’re not addressing a bit of issue here I was kind of hoping was coming across.
…the unreliability of the pet is not the alpha and omega of what’s wrong with the Damage Division. It’s also that splitting base damage with the pet makes direct damage building problematic, but other ways of building are unaffected because all other stats are independent.
- Having lower base damage means your investment into direct damage just doesn’t see the same return other classes get, because a lot of direct damage character building relies on stacking percentage based damage multipliers such as Criticals.
- The pet segregates a portion of your direct damage away from your efforts to raise it, because pets simply don’t ‘count’ for a lot of your choices (armor/sigil/consumeable) and is often the 6th party member when beneficiary AOE has a 5 person limit.
So, not only is what you have in your hands less affected by your efforts to go higher, but the portion that isn’t your hands is also immune to it. Weighted stat scaling surely helps, but by and large that doesn’t tackle these issues.
And, even if this was all in order;
I get why an Engineer’s Turret has damage in TF2 and what that does for the Engi and his Team. Area Control. I get why a Hunter’s Pet has damage in WoW and what that does for the Hunter and his Party. Threat/Aggro Management. I still have no idea what a pet having damage is doing for me or my allies in GW2.
I’m not saying you have to tell me, but I am saying this isn’t immediately apparent and the class could really benefit from taking steps to make this clear in the game itself.
(edited by Vox Hollow.2736)
20 LVLs of fractals deleted. Now Anet will delete ranks. What’s next? Legendary, Character lvl or maybe introduce new WvW rank system and delete old one? I am very disappointed by your policy. My very long term goal was to obtain Dragon rank. Now i have no motivation to play anymore.
A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are.
If I understand what people are saying, and I may be wrong, many people are treating ranks as more of a lifetime achievement. That is certainly something to consider in regards to the future reward system replacing them.
I don’t see how you couldn’t see ranks as a lifetime achievement. So to reach Dragon rank/finisher you need 8971500 total rank points. Let’s say you only play Team Queue and win every game you play that would mean you need approx 17943 games to reach dragon rank. Let’s say I’m a fairly active sPvPer and I play about 30 games a day that means I would need 598 days to get to get to dragon rank at 30 games a day every day(the game isn’t even that old yet).
That’s a lot of games and a lot of time there’s a reason why no one has dragon rank yet. I was hoping to get phoenix rank someday and I can only play 4-5 hot joins a night because soloQ always seems broken and it’s extremely hard for me (work/life schedule) to get a reliable team for team Q. It’s gonna take a long time to get to that rank and removing the ability to get the finisher/rank outright feels like you’re stealing something away from me(yes maybe a little much but that’s what it feels like). As soon as I heard about ranks/finishers not being earnable anymore really put me off sPvP because all I can think of is “Why bother I’m not gonna make it to my goal before they take it away anyways” then I just go afk in pve and do something else instead of playing gw2(already considering other games sadly). Changing the rewards system sure but removing the ability to gain the ranks/finishers please don’t do it. Not to mention a lot of people I know decided to start playing sPvP because the finishers actually meant something now that they are usable in pve and wvw.
As for the rank/glory farmers they should be punished. As I’ve heard it’s only doable in the skyhammer map, so then why is that map still in game if it’s not fixed? Anyways, I’ve made my point, change the way the ranks/finishers are earned but don’t remove them especially when no one has even reached the dragon rank yet.
Sincerely,
Disappointed player waiting to be proven wrong.
Crimson Fatality ~ Mesmer ~ Northern Shiverpeaks
Tainted Phoenix[PHNX] – Mesmer Collective[Mes]
Tainted Phoenix[PHNX] – Mesmer Collective[Mes]
Speaking as someone who only does PvP casually for the achievements involved and, yes, the rank involved, removing rank progression and the earning of new finishers is a horrible idea.
I hate ladders, and no matter what I’m certain I’ll completely ignore whatever form of ladder you eventually put in the game. I would hate the ladder even more if it took away a form of reward which I can actually look forward to playing PvP for.