Guild Wars 2

dragonkain.3984:

We have laziest devs in all mmo market when it comes to customization, so no, not gonna happen.

I wouldn’t call them the “laziest”, especially when we already have so much customization in certain areas, so many transformation skills, potions, all with different animations, skills, attacks, mechanics, models etc, also think about all the transformations and unique skills and mechanics throughout the story.

That’s why I don’t understand that such a huge thing like an elite spec, that’s supposed to keep people for the next 2 years playing, gets so little attention in comparison.

I mean look at the weaver, they got 40+ new skills with insane effects etc. I guess every expansion they only pick one elite spec where they invest heavily in the visuals.

The soulbeast was clearly not picked this time.

RabbitUp.8294:

Changes to the profession mechanic, changes to skills, changes to visuals, a kit-like mechanic based on the merged pet.

-The skills only change meele /ranged depending on the pet you merged with.
-We already got a kit like mechanic with the soulbeast based on the merged pet.

RabbitUp.8294:

You are very much describing a different elite spec.
This is not what traits do, you don’t change the entire spec based on a trait. Nor would they ever develop 2 different specs and have one hidden behind a trait.

You still talk about different specs hidden behind traits which makes still no sense to me. Especially when you then go on in the next sentence and complain that traits are no “fashion toggles”.

Neither your suggestion of purely visual changes makes sense. Traits are not fashion toggles.

So what is it now, 2 different spec or 2 different visuals hidden behind a trait. You can’t complain about both.

I am talking mainly about visuals. To say that traits can’t change visuals is imo narrow minded. This is an expansion, by its very nature it’s supposed to add new things to the game. Also, I explained that Beastform is mainly visual but has of course some potential to change your playstyle. It’s overall still a meaningful trait with a focus on visuals. There would be far worse traits already in the game.

Also:
They could just give you the Beastform as a minor, passive trait and the NEW thing about this expansion could be that you could disable or enable minors.
This would then for example also mean that you can play a reaper with the core deathshroud and if anet wants some class mechanics that can’t be disabled they wouldn’t give them to you through a minor trait but trough a little symbol in the elite spec (similar of how you enable your new weapon in a elite spec).

RabbitUp.8294:

You want a transformation-based elite spec. …

Exactly that’s what I want and that’s the reason why I asked people on how likely it is that we’ll get that, because I know that the soulbeast is similar to a shapeshifter but of course it isn’t one.

RabbitUp.8294:

So the should have developed a second elite spec and put it behind a ttait.

Talking about realistic expectations.

Do you think adding a green glowing aura is enough visually for a elite specialization? No? Well then why is adding a Beastform a SECOND elite spec?

Again. I don’t think you understood it. You have the Soulbeast in it’s current form. That’s the mechanical aspect of this elite spec.
Then you have the Beastform OR the green glowing aura as a trait choice. The main point of the aura or beastform is visuals. (of course this choice has potential to offer different playstyle too)

The green aura is something the devs can make in a few days. The Beastform needs many new skill icons but the skills themselves stay (other than maybe changing from ranged to meele or vice versa) the same. They just need different attack animations but that’s not that difficult, you can just slap some generic animal animations on there, like it’s done with all the other skills in the game that alter your appereance, which would still feel way better than just a green aura.

The entire point of this thread is, that imo the soulbeast does feel rushed. I played games where I dropped a single new weapon for my character and it altered my playstyle and appearance more than the new “soulbeast”.
The point I made is that Anet went the cheapest possible route with that spec for the visuals.
That’s why I (and I saw many others in the last few days) am pretty disappointed.

RabbitUp.8294:

And then you have countless rage threads in the forums about how the shapeshifted models look ugly, they block fashion and hide legendary auras.

Did you install the game yesterday?

You could just make the “beastform” a single trait. If you don’t want that you can still have your green aura.

Makes no real difference if you’re in beastform or not, all that would change are the attack animations and that in some beastforms all (or almost all) of your weapon skills get converted to meele skills and in some forms your weapon skills get converted to ranged beastform skills.
Without beastform, with just your green aura, you can use raged/meele depending on your weapon type and you would still get your extra 3 beast skills+ buffs etc.

Believe it or not but there are ways to make almost everyone happy.

Core ranger is not weak. It can be very strong but only with a very specific playstyle.
Many traits/weapons the core ranger has are useless/weak ore have only use in a very specific niche. But this doesn’t mean the class is weak, it just lacks variety of good/effective builds per game mode/playstyle.

We know that soon there will be a major balancing update, that wants to address some issues the core and HoT traits/skills have when you look at the bigger picture with the new PoF elite specs.

Imo it’s unlikely that they’ll fix pets at this moment in time.

We just got a new meele weapon for ranger. It’s not that unlikely that the devs look for synergy with existing meele weapons and if they don’t find any, they’ll create some.

Of course we move forward and of course they won’t address all issues.

Swagger.1459:

I think that ends up being a thousand times more work. I’d much rather have their extra time, effort and resources fixing core Ranger, Druid and pets, than trying to deliver a “WoW” Druid.

4-5 new beast models with animation sets and skill conversions to the beast skills.
Sounds about as much work as you would expect for a new elite spec.

I personally don’t care about “fixing” core ranger because core ranger is imo pretty fine. I main one and it deals tons of damage has good survivability, imo the druid made it even better.
Also with that argument we could just scrap the entire new expansion and just “fix” old stuff. Doesn’t really make sense to me.

But my point is really that the new ranger spec doesn’t seem to bring anything new or exciting to the table. Doesn’t alter the class experience as much as I would’ve hoped. I saw so much potential for it and it turns out that it’s just a new aura and 3 skills.

All that separates a soulbeast from a true shapeshifter is:

- ingame model(s) + animation
- changing the weapon(+utility?) skills to corresponding beast skills in the beast form
(no need for entirely new skills, just animations. You have shortbow + merged with a meele pet? Now you have meele shortbow skills in a beast form, don’t like it? Then merge with a ranged pet archetype.)

But instead we got a green aura that doesn’t even care what pet we merged our SOUL with. All we get is 2-3 skills and 2 of them are the same for many pets (unless they reworked all the current pet skills) and the third is only depending on the few archetypes.

I am pretty disappointed about the Soulbeast, at this point not necessarily mechanically wise but because I find it visually underwhelming and a bit weird and lame that there are so many skills in the game that alter your skills, appearances etc. completely but with the single one class where this stuff (visual representation of your stance or pet you merged) would really matter, they went with the cheapest way possible.

With an elite spec that is now already similar but still not that close to the theme of a (WoW) druid/shapeshifter, how likely will it be that we could see a true shapeshifter elite spec for ranger?
How about a elite spec for another class?
How about an entire new class?

What do you guys think?

Visually probably the most boring thing I’ve ever seen.

But maybe all the pet stances will offer some variety.

First impression: Meh.

Well, I am pretty excited about mounts.

But I have a few things that I am worried about:

- Being left behind by your squad if you are getting somehow dismounted by some npcs and you need to fight back annoying mobs and try to get somehow out of fight to mount up again
- Usually you run around and it’s not that big of a deal if you want to gather some mats on your way. How will this change if you and your allies ride around? Will you stop or will it be to annoying to gather stuff.
- Reviving dead players, same as above
- Even more performance issues

And a few questions that came to my mind:

- Will our weapons, backpieces get hidden when we are on a mount?
- Can your mount die? Will you have to revive it
- Has your mount any sort of inventory, equipment slots?
- Will we be able to go underwater with the mounts, will they be able to swim?

maddoctor.2738:

Something that allows you to get into what matters: the action, faster is “boring”, while something you “can afk on” is exciting? That’s weird logic

So you would favour an edited version of Lord of the Rings where you only see the 3-4 large battle scenes and nothing else? No journey, no explanation, no background?

This is of course just an example for why just ‘action’ is not always that exciting but I think in an MMO that wants to have a world that feels real, alive, dangerous and that wants to be taken serious, you can’t just let players choose which event they want to instantly join, otherwise you haven’t built a world but a game lobby .

You have to send them on a journey and you have to make that journey interesting so that when they finally reach their destination they are already excited as hell and the big final event is just something that falls in line and creates together with that journey a much more unique and interesting experience than if you would just click on a waypoint and join a tag.

No one knows at this point if anet can remotely realize such a thing but I think they are heading in the right direction.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

“No one has ever said it would be easy to make an armor set.”

Actually someone did
“I actually think this is the best practical solution. A single designer could probably pump out at least a ‘new’ converted armor set per week."

Yes and we all know of course that ‘easy’ directly relates to ‘time needed’. I could give you the most easiest task there is in the world but it could take ages to do it or I could give you the most annoying and mind destroying thing to do that is over within an hour.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Currently a full set of armor takes 9 months. An outfit, much less. They put out a new outfit every few months.

Why does it take so much less time to do an outfit? That’s the question you should ask. And the answer was basically: “because armor needs to be adjusted for every gender and race. And because armor needs 3 different armor types. And because of reasons we can’t explain to you.”

The first one does not make any sense. The second problem could be avoided through only making those armor sets where style and connection points would fit and through only having one appearance across all available armor types.
Are you telling me that I am wrong?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

So if they can create an outfit in a few months and convert it to armor a week later then that’s far faster than 9 months, and therefore easy to create armor.

I said it would be faster. Way faster than completely create an armor from scratch since we already have a good amount of work done.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

….We were told but you don’t believe them, the reasons stated were wrong…..

I told you exactly why the given reasons were wrong. If you just want to believe stuff that does not make any sense it’s your own decision. But don’t blame me for not accepting it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Basically you’re calling them liars or incompetent when you say that the reasons given as to why it takes so long are incorrect. …..

I told you exactly that I think that this was either a standard answer that you would get from any company that just wants to answer an annoying generic question. Call that lying if you want.

I also told you that the question that was asked was probably to generic and does not apply to the very specific question I would’ve asked.

I also wrote numerous times that I think it’s not a technical problem but something that the design team does not want to see implemented, for whatever reasons.

Anyways I am getting bored writing always the same things.

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to see a quote where Anet said there would never be mounts in this game. I haven’t heard or seen anything like this. I’m pretty sure it’s never actually been said. People have said it, but I don’t believe Anet did.

From the official Gw2 wiki FAQ, with a source link that leads you nowhere….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

“Will there be mounts?
Other than map travel and asura gates, there will be no other methods of long distance travel such as mounts, ships, etc in Guild Wars 2 upon initial release.”

Also from a very old interview (2011)

http://www.guildmag.com/community-interview-with-colin-johanson

Colin: “….. but there are no mounts in Guild Wars 2. You can’t have an airship as a mount on initial release, but mounts will play into some of the gameplay in the game.”

If you want more trenchcoats on a heavy armor class you can only use outfits.

Because with the outfit system it somehow doesn’t matter anymore if your armor class is easily identified, which was always the reason behind the overall designs of the armors we get.

We can all just pray that with the new expansion we will break away from this design decision.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Actually, I think the Devs will read the feedback and be totally astonished that in spite of all their training, their years of working in this and other MMOs and having access to trade magazines and advice from other Devs, that somehow they completely missed how easy it is to make armor using the tools described in this thread. Once the Devs use the information revealed here I confidently expect that from now on a full set of armor will be made each month and all outfits will be converted to armor also.

No one has ever said it would be easy to make an armor set.

All I am saying is use the work that is already done for the outfit to make an armor set.

I do not know how much work there is to do after you have an already completed static 3d mesh for an armor. I said that numerous times now. But I do know that it takes a considerable amount of time to make that static 3d mesh.

Especially if you have to adjust that 3d mesh for every race/gender combination in the game. But we of course know that these 3d meshes already exist for the outfits.

And then people start with things like rigging, different armor types etc which have nothing at all to do with a static 3d mesh.

Like making an armor out of an static 3d mesh was never done before in this game.

Also you can right now google for GW2 3D models and find numerous models that were imported, exported, converted etc from the gw2 data, 3d models that now use common filextensions like .obj .3ds .ply. .stl, really everything you want. There is even a program called "3D ripper DX " where you can make an 3D ingame “screenshot” of gw2 and then cut out your character, so you get the 3d model of it that way and then you can do whatever you want, even print it out with an 3d printer.
(I would not recommend using third party software)

But people in this thread are acting like there is some sort of forbidden magic involved with a simple static 3d mesh.

If some amateurs can do that I am sure that some devs at anet can do it as well.

I also said that I do not believe that the answer that was given, “it’s too hard to do” was correct. We already know that half of the reasosn were wrong when we were told that armor sets in comparison to outfits need to be made for every race/gender.

I do not believe that we would get the same answer if the question would be about using the existing 3d mesh as starting point to create armorsets. They would probably tell us about different, non technical but gameplay related issues, like an inbalance of choice in armorsets etc

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Actually, the Devs expressly stated they could not use the World Boss model to make others as they had different rigs.

They have also said they use proprietary software they have created themselves for their particular engine, which nobody else uses.

Do remember, Outfits are a 4th armor weight, and can not be mixed/matched with the other 3 armor weights.

You can use Google, Wayback Machine, and/or other sources to find these interviews/videos/statements.

Good luck.

We are talking about different things here.
I am talking about the static 3d mesh of an object. Rigging, setting up a skeleton and bones, the animation etc are steps that only come after you have created the static 3d mesh.

You are already talking about that “black box”. I am talking about the input we know of. Which is, to clarify it once more, the static 3d mesh of the outfit.

A static 3d mesh has no armor weight or anything else yet, these things are at this point completely irrelevant.

Leo G.4501:

You have a habit of putting words in people’s mouths. You said:

" You could use this to make now an armor in Skyrim or a new car in GTA or whatever you want."

…as if a 3d model’s data is just malleable to become whatever you want it to be meshed on. While some software does allow that, that doesn’t mean ever software that creates and edits 3d models can or should.

So are you telling me right now that Skyrim or GTA 3d models can’t be created in or converted to 3DS? Because this is exactly what I said with that example.
They can.

Leo G.4501:

If you had experience, you’d exhibit a microbial amount of knowledge that projects as complicated at games have systems of software in place that can make a change as simple as an audio timing edit a multi-day task to accomplish. The least you could do is acknowledge that what you propose isn’t some simple “cut it a certain way” approach because you have no actual 1st or 2nd hand knowledge of how their systems of software is engineered and maintained.

Again, are you telling me right now that:
- Anet did not use any 3d modeling software at all?
- Anet is incapable of taking 3d data from one model to create a different game asset?

Another question: Do you think they made the Tequatl boss, the Tequatl mini, the little statue of Tequatl on the reward chest, do you think they always recreated Tequatl from scratch? Or did they just use their, hmmmm…. 3d modeling software, click on import, Tequatl.FILEEXTENSION and then do whatever they needed with it?

Do you think when they made Brahams shoulder piece available as a standalone armor piece, yes you know, that shoulder piece that was initially only part of the Braham outfit a few weeks earlier, do you think they recreated that from scratch?

No one does that! Your argument is insane.

Leo G.4501:

You have a laughably basic understanding of how software works. Every 3d modeling software isn’t compatible with other 3d modeling software and thus utilize the same file extensions and store information in the same format within those files. Hell, even different versions of a same software isn’t compatible with older versions unless someone scripts it to be such.

Your basic argument is “it uses 3d models so it must be completely malleable to do anything every other 3d model that ever existed can do” and this is not true. Mind you, I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying it’s not inherently true. The creators of armor in an MMO might be great at utilizing tools given and be great artists, but some of them just might lack the programming expertise to bridge gaps in the code of the tools they use.

Do you think that a 3d model from an outfit is so unbelievably different from an armor that they somehow use a completely different 3d modeling tool?

Do you think they use 7 different 3d modeling tools from seven different companies, one for head, shoulders, chest…. and one for outfits, maybe even an extra one to create a tree?

And you are telling me that my argument is laughable?
I actually have a little experience with these things and even if I am not a game programmer I am a programmer my self. I also understand certain basic principles in this industry.

There is not a single reason why you wouldn’t use the same 3d modeling software for an armor as well as for an outfit.

So please enlighten me, you seem to be quite familiar with this topic. What is the exact reason why a 3d modeling software can handle a chest piece but not an outfit? Which both are at this point in time just a 3d model, no matter with what 3d modeling software you built them. Tell me with my basic understanding of how software works, I just can’t get behind it.

It’s quite frankly the craziest argument I have heard in this thread.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That one did turn out nice. Is that a Poly Luminescent green?

It’s called: Poly-luminescent Undulating Refractor (Orange).
Together with the blue base color of the zodiac armor this orange refractor generates that green.

Btw:
If you ever feel the need to try out what these colors do, try the hylek potions you can buy for karma, most of these color potions have the exact same effect as the refractors.

Recently switched my main from necro to ranger.

After finding out that there are infusions and jewels with different cosmetic effects I started to experiment with them.

Think this one turned out pretty good.

PyrateSilly.4710:

People complain about the lag now …. wow just wait if any mounts are added. Which by the way ANet has NOT said they are adding mounts. It’s all speculation. No one knows yet what will be in the expansion. All we know for sure is that one is being worked and it should be coming soon. How soon? Again NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING YET!!!!!!! And the ones that DO know are NOT talking.

A developer has confirmed on reddit that the next expansion will arrive 3 + months after the next living world episode. It was stated it would take a bit longer than the break between normal episodes.

If nothing major happens we should see the new expansion this year somewhere in autumn.

These are some important comments made on reddit from Mike O’Brien:

“We announced that today’s episode, Flashpoint, is the second-to-last episode of the season. Yes, that means what you think it means: there’s one more episode after this, and then straight to the expansion pack.”

“This time around we have two separate fully-staffed teams that are both hitting on all cylinders. So our rough plan is to slot the expansion pack into the release cadence as if it were an episode: episode 5, then episode 6, then the expansion pack, then episode 1. But we’ll make some allowance for the fact that shipping an expansion pack is a big deal logistically and will probably take longer than the 2~3 months we normally allocate between episodes.”

“Spoilers take away the delightful surprises from upcoming announcements and releases, and more importantly they also take away the reveals that you’d otherwise get to experience fresh as you play through the content. If you want to spoil yourself, to open all your presents early, that’s a choice you make for yourself, but do me a favor and don’t make it for other people. Things can quickly become common knowledge around map chat, guild chat, Reddit, etc., and then it gets to the point where no one gets to be surprised and delighted as they play through the game. And, after all, games are meant to be played.”

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Understand: Mounts will likely never bring speedboosts and combat options if they’d be available ingame, they’ll likely not be like brooms and carpets either.

I think I would go to far when I would explain you exactly what we can expect after seeing the mount masteries (and their descriptions) that came with the leak.

So I think if you really want to spoil it for yourself, you should just use google and research it yourself.

dagrdagaz.4913:

This topic is pointless, there will NEVER be mounts in GW2.

There’s a bigger chance that i’ll get an Asura as a Pet for my Norn ranger…

Then you should better be prepared to travel with a new companion in the future expansion.

We’ve already seen ingame screenshots and the masteries for them.

Yes there is a chance that this is faked. But anet would’ve said something by now if it was completely made up and the guy that made this entire thing up should then immediately be hired by anet because his work looks absolutely amazing.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, then, that should be their lament, rather than saying there was much choice with armor at launch, and now, even though no (or nearly no) armor has been removed, there is less choice.

I mean, there is still 2000-3000 pieces of gear. In fact, there are more than there were at launch.

You can’t really compare some standard low level armor to the looks of the outfits, that have so much more variety, so much better quality, better effects etc.

Also it does not matter how much pieces of armor there are if most pieces look boring or almost the same, if they do not fit well together.

The major argument for converting outfits into armor never was that there is now somehow less variety than at release it’s not related to this topic and does not make any sense.

There are dozens of truly amazing potential armor sets in the game right now, if they are split into single armor pieces and made available as such, there will be an ridiculous amount of new combinations of mixed and matched armors possible that truly have the potential to look absolutely awesome.

We could right now be on the brink of a devastating outbreak of a new fashionwar that could truly alter the course that fashion takes in this game!

vesica tempestas.1563:

That’s not what i said. If someone does not like the gameplay offered in GW2 then adding/removing mounts, its not going to affect that. I will guarantee you no player who enjoyed playing GW2 left purely because there are no mounts – it is fluff. What does mounts give? well some people like collecting mounts, so that’s good, however the speed of the mounts will need to be the same as max speed running or those maps are going to feel VERY VERY small. The real question is wether mounts should be prioritized over other things and if its value for money. If its cheap to build and speed is managed then win win perhaps.

But that’s almost never how it works. There are very few things where people would actually say: “I like this single specific game mechanic, I will buy this game!”

I didn’t really care about raids. For that reason I am not that happy about getting new raid rewards. But that’s only one part of the game. If there were ten more things added to the game I didn’t care or like, I would probably start feeling that this game is no longer for me.

Mounts in Gw2 is not something that is so important that everyone will start buying or leaving the game instantly just because of that specific new mechanic.
But it’s one mechanic more that people like or dislike.

When I left the game after HoT, I still liked the overall gameplay. But it got boring fast and I had no goals that could excite me anymore.
If we would only get mounts with a new expansion, I wouldn’t have returned but we get a new region, new elite specializations, new armors, weapons, story and of course mounts.
There are too many things in that new expansion that excite me, to not return to this game and mounts is of course just one more thing I am very excited to try out.

And one mechanic comes rarely alone. Anet will build around mounts and many of the new mechanics that will come with new expac.
At release everyone will look at the overall picture that they’re presented with and decide if they like the overall gameplay or not.

Nitron.6405:

Solution 2 (recommended): Split outfits into 6 piece sets, but only allow certain armour weights access to certain sets, depending on “major clipping” issues. More effort, cleaner results.

I actually think this is the best practical solution. A single designer could probably pump out at least a ‘new’ converted armor set per week.

Even if there was much work to do after cutting the outfit 3d model into pieces, the values and color patterns etc are already there from the outfits and should not be that hard to recreate for the armor set.

I hope they one day will do it that way, even if this solution severely limits the amount of ‘new’ outfit-armor sets per armor type it’s far better than what we have now.

Opal.9324:

I haven’t seen the screenshots so I don’t know what the mounts look like. I still don’t want to be forced to use them, though.

If the implementation of gliding in HoT is any indication, it’s likely that the new maps will be designed for the new mounts and the new masteries these mounts have.
Mounts will probably in some part be the replacement for ley line flows, jumping mushrooms, waypoints, skritt tunnels etc.

Even if mounts would only give you a 33% speed boost, which is imo unlikely, the mounts will probably not be an optional part of the game if you want to discover all areas in the new regions without serious disadvantage against a mount user.

Tyncale.1629:

There’s a few things I hope about Mounts:

Summoning a mount is instant:
They will be considerable faster then Swiftness or other Speedboosts;
When Mounted you do not draw aggro from mobs; how lovely would it be if you could traverse HoT without being crippled every second. (I know, if you are a good player you can avoid most of the attention of mobs, but I also want to be lazy sometimes.)

Else I do not see much use for them other then looks, and traversing the very large new maps.

I doubt that anet wants player to be basically invunerable to normal mobs when they use a mount, so that they can totally break the game and most game mechanic anet throws at them.
I think there will be mechanics in the game that will dismount you.

You cannot glide in certain areas like jumping puzzles, there are mordrem snipers, that kill you when you are gliding and not using stealth etc.
There will probably mechanics that will prevent people from riding through hordes of enemy npcs.

Imo a mount should make it faster, more fun and engaging to traverse the terrain, it should not necessarily make it easier.

Skittish.4539:

I haven’t seen any official source even hint about either locations or mounts for the next expansion. As believable as leaks and unconfirmed speculation might be, people using language like “pretty much certain” and saying this or that ‘will’ happen in an expansion that we have zero official information about doesn’t really make sense. We don’t know for sure. Not even close to sure.

Have you personally seen the actual leaked images?
I have and I won’t spoil any further detail on the expansion but let me make a few points on that topic:

- They look absolutely convincingly
- They are not just a quick image from a mount or a excel sheet with some information, they show ingame footage, icons, the gw2 art style, the new expansion theme
- They show the entire maps with all waypoints, names etc

- If anyone faked this, he has done such an amazing job. He has probably put so many work hours in this ‘project’ that he can release the next expansion himself

- Do you really think that Anet, and believe me they have noticed this leak too. Do you really think they would not have said anything about it if this was completely made up? If there was completely false information about their most important upcoming event out there, hyping many people as well as making some of their players unhappy?

-All that anet has done after the leak is confirming that a new expansion will come out on reddit:
“….Yes, that means what you think it means: there’s one more episode after this, and then straight to the expansion pack.”

For me it’s at this point pretty clear that the information we have about the upcoming expansion is not made up.

maddoctor.2738:

First I’d like to introduce you to the Desert Borderlands, which is also a desert but has many canyons. Second, in GW2 the desert zones had actual canyons and weren’t all flat zones. So in the Guild Wars universe the “desert” is not as flat as you might think. Why would they make the desert in GW2 wide and flat when in the previous game it wasn’t?
Don’t limit map design and imagination by calling a desert “flat and wide”.

All this assuming we go to the desert in the next expansion.

We are already talking about mounts, at this point it’s pretty much certain that we will go to the desert.

When I am talking about vertical maps I mean something like tangled depths and verdant brink.

The new maps were leaked and to not spoil anything let’s just say they will of course not only be flat. But in comparison to something like verdant brink they will still be pretty flat, that’s how I meant it.

maddoctor.2738:

What’s the point of having a huge, flat, empty map?
I don’t think they’ll go so backwards with the next expansion, they’ve done well with HoT and LS3 and added something much more interesting to move around. Why revert to the boring old “let’s make the map huge so players are forced to use ugly mounts to move around?”

Well it maybe more or less flat but who has ever said empty? And why are mounts uglier than a fat ley line that reaches across the entire map or hundreds of magical catapulting mushrooms or always seeing people catapulted around?

The reasons for open and wide maps are pretty straight forward:

- First: The feedback after HoT release for the new maps was not that good.
People were confused, couldn’t get to their friends, find the PoIs etc. Commanders had problems because people didn’t find them on the map, they were always above or beneath the commander tag on the minimap. The new maps were pretty and full of detail but messy and not that easy to navigate.
Anet got also harsh critique for the map size, although their argument was that the maps had many layers to discover, players just didn’t seem to really accept that argument.

-Second: Elona has huge deserts. While the whole “verticality thing” could be explained in a jungle region a desert is usually a desert, which happens to be wide and flat.

The new maps will not only be easier to navigate, they will be easier to build as well when there are not that many layers anymore that the devs need to connect in a way that feels right and realistic. The new maps will also give a more “open world” feeling and of course are ideal if you want to introduce mounts.

vesica tempestas.1563:

And il guarantee you if a person doesn’t enjoy GW2 they are not going to start enjoying it because they have the image of a horse instead of their character moving.

I have several friends that asked me about the game and one of their first question was if there are mounts. Mounts are pretty much a standard for an mmo today. If you are used to them you don’t want to miss them.
Just imagine not being able to jump in a newly released mmo…

Also, I myself stopped playing gw2 shortly after the release of HoT but I returned as soon as I heard about the new expansion, two of the new elite specializations and of course because of the fact that we probably are getting mounts.

Right now I have new goals in the game, saving as much gold, mats, hero points as possible to craft new possible legendaries and acquire new equipment, new mounts, new elite specializations from the expansion.

I am also member in a huge guild 400+ members and since the leaks the guild upped its member count from 300 to 400 people. Many new players but many people have just recently returned because of the leaks.

People seem to like mounts overall that’s what I am getting from all of that.

Abakk.9176:

………

In WoW they use flightpaths and the majority of the players (on the forum at least) would much rather have teleports… go figure.

I guess it’s inevitable in this game as well then. Eventually even here the mounts will blot out the sun.

Really? Last time I read the forums people were complaining about how flying mounts ruined the game, emptied the maps. How good the old days were, where you had to travel from one zone to another just with your MOUNT.

I’ve played WoW for a long time and many of the best experiences I had did not happen on my arrival but on my way there.

Our maps in gw2 feel more empty than they have to because people don’t have to travel anywhere. They can just be there. Imagine the traffic in and out from big cities like LA when there would be no waypoints at all, how real and alive the game world could feel.

Of course anet will never remove so many waypoints but in the new maps we get probably only two or three and that in a huge desert map.

Ashen.2907:

I was not okay with those mechanics (except way points).

But they are something that happens to my character, not something that impacts his appearance for extended periods of time while traversing a map.

So the problem we are talking about is a purely cosmetic one? Because certain mechanics for traversing the terrain were required already in the game, they were not optional before and they probably won’t be with the future expansion.

Do you really think there will be no mount in the game that you could like? Is that the problem?

Ashen.2907:

As long as mounts are no faster than my characters can be without them, and require as much in the way of trade offs as it does for my characters to have their current speed buffs…sure why not.

But if mounts are faster, or provide even the same speed as a character without having to trade traits, utility skill, or gear options to achieve their speed as a character does….then I am against them.

Using a mount should not be something you are pressured into because otherwise you are at a mobility disadvantage in game. Cosmetic only please.

Well, then mounts are truly useless.
Of course mounts will provide benefits. I would not be surprised when certain areas of the new regions will be gated behind a specific mount mechanic.
(not that I would want that but that’s what anet did in HoT with certain masteries required to reach certain areas and we know that different mounts have different skills unlocked with different masteries)

But your argument is strange. Right now jumping mushrooms, nuhoch wallows, ley line energy flows, updrafts, waypoints themselves are nothing that can be considered as an ‘optional’ or only cosmetic part of the game. If you don’t use them or if you dont have the masteries for them you are in a serious disadvantage.

The new mounts will probably be the thing that either supplements the above mentioned mechanics or maybe in some parts even replaces them.

Why were you okay with these ‘old’ mechanics when players that did not want to use them had a disadvantage and why are you complaining now?

Djinn.9245:

So is your answer “no”? You have not used GW2’s tool and so you have no idea how they create armor?

Certainly it seems like it would be an easy prospect. I myself have asked why they can’t do certain things that make sense. But there is a difference between asking why and insisting that they can do something.

Well, I at least will answer your question finally.
In case you ever asked seriously: No I am not a developer that has ever worked on GW2.

That said: It makes no difference at all how armors for gw2 are created. An example:

I do not need to know how exactly and in every little detail how my computer monitor is working. What I do know however is that it requires electricity and a certain voltage and I do know also that my monitor does not produce that electricity itself.
It does not matter in which of my 12 sockets my monitor is plugged in. As long as it delivers the right current and voltage my monitor will produce a frame.

It’s the same thing with the armor:
I do not know how exactly and in every detail anet exactly makes their armors or outfits.
But it does not matter, because I do know that the first thing required for them is a 3d model. We know we have a 3d model for the outfits, if they have a 3d model they can make everything from it that anet can make from a 3d model.

If I give them a 3d model of a simple sphere, they can make an armor out of it. It may will look ridiculous and will glitch through everything but from any 3d model you can make every ingame object. You can make a plant that looks like a sphere you can make an entire race that looks like a sphere. Does not matter. After creating a 3d model there maybe still months of work to do (take the example with creating a new race) but still it all starts with a simple 3d model file.

As long as we have a 3d model of an armor/outfit we can make armor out of it. There is no reason why there should be any difference at this point between a 3d concept piece of armor or of an outfit.

Tumult.2578:

……

I will uninstall the first time I see a mount, but not because you told everyone to leave.
That will tell me the game is about to die.

So you are saying you are playing the game right now because you like the way you traverse the game world so much?

Djinn.9245:

For clarification: have you used the modeling tool that GW2 uses? Have you created armor for a MMO? I just want to know what your experience is that you are able to make the above statement with certainty.

Well I asked you this question already you did not answer it:

Do you believe that anet is the only game company in the entire world that does not use an already existing 3d modeling tool to model a 3d model?

There is no magical GW2 way of creating a 3d model. It’s a d3 modeling tool that’s used to create the model. It’s then in some way converted and prepared to whatever their engine needs.

If we have the 3d model of an outfit you can start there with creating an armor set out of it.
This is not rocket science. It’s logical and understandable for amateurs.

You can watch YT videos from experienced game developers that explain you the detailed process of how to make 3d models for certain engines. For every engine the first step ist the same:
Create a 3d model in a common modeling tool.

In the old maps you can travel everywhere with waypoints. How big does that world feel? I can tell you: It doesn’t feel like a world at all. It feels like a little game lobby. If you’re done with what you where doing you stand there, open your map and click on the next wp. Almost like in the pvp lobby.

The newer maps (including HoT) have fewer waypoints. This means anet themselves wanted lesser waypoints because they didn’t like the status quo. But that created a new problem, 133% movement speed didn’t seem enough to traverse a map with enemies, dynamic events etc in an adequate time. So they came up with what many people here describe as a ‘creative and fun transport way’.

Mushrooms, Ley-line flows, nuhoch wallows, skritt tunnels etc. They were the solution to the transport problem. But these things can’t be used everywhere. For each map, for each region you have to now think about a transport mechanic, that fits the region, that is somehow explained in the lore, that feels right, that needs a mastery, that has nice effects and doesn’t completely destroy the aesthetics etc.

It’s not only a solution that many people find completely immersion breaking but it’s also very expensive to develop.

We know now that anet has decided to try a new solution. And I believe that we will not only get mounts but we will get mounts that will inherit huge amounts of the traits that made the previous solution (jumping mushrooms etc) enjoyable.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

“…Armor is complicated and needs to be created with many considerations in mind, and these considerations may not be easily apparent or describable….”

Then what is the complicated parts and the many considerations that the above quote referred to?

I have said it and I will say it again: I do not know why anet is not converting outfits to armor.

The given information does not implicate that there is any major problem. I’ve told you why the very few given reasons for why it’s not happening do not make any sense:

- 3d models are already done for every race/gender
- clipping and fitting issues are already existing with normal armors
- need for distinguishable armor types “trenchcoat argument” is no longer valid since we already have the same outfits for everyone

So in my opinion we may have official information on why it’s not happening but these given reasons are either wrong or need additional information to make sense.

To me that answer sounds like every standard answer given from a dev or company that wants to quickly answer an annoying question they get permanently asked.

Oh this is not that easy, ughh how to even start explain this to you? Maybe we look into it but our engine is not build around it, we rather spend time producing new content blah blah…
Like we never heard that before. It’s an answer that answers nothing, where they only tell things everyone already knew.

It’s the first thing you answer to your boss if he gives you an annoying task to do. Later you can surprise him how efficient and easily you mastered that difficult challenge that was never difficult to begin with. That’s of course only if you feel like doing it, otherwise you can complain about how impossible the task was to do.

But I already accepted that we won’t get all those shiny armor pieces…

Leo G.4501:

I consider that an interesting feature of the game. Most just have a “increase movement spell/buff” and you just run. GW2 feels a bit like parkour, where you’re evading mob attacks, leaping forward and over obstacles to keep enemies out of range, teleporting, stealthing, etc, all to keep your speed momentum.

Is there any major MMO that has implemented mounts that make you invulnerable against attacks of mobs?
Don’t you think anet will include mechanics that make it difficult or prevent people from just riding through hordes of enemies?

It’s terribly likely that the mounts will have movement and/or even utility skills. They will probably enable the players to do much more things than just leaping forward. Much more things to add to that ‘parkour feeling’.

Abakk.9176:

There is no ‘new approach’ to standard MMO mounts. Only tacked on excuses to have them anyway, no matter how unneeded they are so some may be temporarily cured of their boredness.

This game solved transportation in several very creative and fun ways. So much that i think it plays a huge part in setting this game apart from many others and gives it a certain enjoyable uniqueness.

Maybe as a gimmick in one or two future maps…. but even then i think that would do injustice to their concept.

So you are basically saying, a mount is a mount and I am against mounts, no matter what.

Also you want to continue with having maps full with all that ley line stuff, jumping mushrooms or whatever. People that run around, spamming every possible skill that gives them any sort of movement.

Being teleported around the map through various mechanics so that the maps start feeling like an ingame lobby rather than a living real world that wants to be taken seriously.

Leo G.4501:

You’re not taking into consideration how specific pieces function. You can’t just ignore how they connect because that is a critical feature of how armor is created. Pieces cast clipping masks and make parts of the character models or other armor pieces invisible. That’s not something you just ignore but designed around.

Take the 3d model and cut it for each armor type in pieces, so that they can connect to the specific connection point of the desired armor class.
This should require like 5 minutes of active work by a person that knows how to use the modeling tool, that knows where to cut.

Why is this such a huge problem suddenly?

Leo G.4501:

Won’t it be faster to just use your blink, leap, rush skills rather than sitting on a mount?

Not every class/build has these movement skills available. No one really knows how fast mounts are and how long you need for mounting/unmounting.

We don’t even know if we will be able to summon them or if we have to pick them up at a certain location. Will they despawn? Will they stay with us after we’ve unmounted or maybe even fight with us?
There are many possibilities with mounts.

Also the new mounts will probably have skills that improve their movement even further.

Leo G.4501:

Anet’s already said, making outfits, you only have to make them fit the character model while for armor, you have to make each individual piece fit with other pieces of that armor weight and since each armor weight has different connection points, they don’t fit other armor weights the same thus the necessity to make 3 sets of armors so you don’t leave an armor weight out (that is, if you make a new Light armor set and don’t make anything for Medium or Heavy, people while complain).

Again, you start with the raw 3d data. There are no connection points at this time.

Then you make armor pieces out of the 3d model of the outfit. An outfit that already has 3d models for every race/gender combination.
Of course from this point on you have to do everything that you would have to do in order to make normal armor. I don’t understand why everyone is talking about connection point issues.

The work anet saves through already having modeled the outfits enables them to start directly at the point where they start setting connection points and that stuff up.

At the end we will get from one outfit one armorset for every armor type. Every armorset looks the same, like it was before when you equipped an outfit on light/medium/heavy armor classes.

And if we are talking about not fitting together and clipping issues with already existing armor, then I can only say that you should look at how bad stuff is clipping already.

Let the players decide what fits and what not.

Abakk.9176:

If there was ever a game that was a breath of fresh air compared to other MMO’s, with mounts beeing the absolute last thing it needed, it is this game.

Not even if your jaded boredness tells you otherwise.

Who told you we are getting the standard MMO mount?
The new mounts for example will probably have combat mechanics, allow us to jump with them like we previously did with mushrooms etc, allow us maybe to glide or something like that.
They will vary not only in appearance but probably need different masteries and will have different skills. They are a new approach to your standard MMO transport vehicle. They are imo exactly the fresh air this game needs.

Also you’ve made absolute no argument, mentioned no example, gave no explanation that supports/explains your personal opinion.

Djinn.9245:

You have zero data on how many people purchase outfits outside the anecdotal information of one person who can only be in one place in the game at one time and who is playing the game, not counting people.

It would be less profitable because a number of the people who already purchased the Outfit would not purchase the armor.

Telling me it’s impossible to know how many people purchase outfits. Then continues telling me what those unknown number of people will do at a future sale.

Maybe people who already bought the outfit wouldn’t buy the corresponding armor set. But where have I ever mentioned that?
I said people who did not want to buy that outfit could now be more interested in buying several outfits.

Djinn.9245:

You said their comment makes no sense. It makes perfect sense for the way they currently make armor. If they were to do what you suggest, that would be a different situation.

I also am not certain what you mean by “make the same outfit jsut as six different armor pieces”? Do you mean use the current outfits or change the way they make armor so they first make an outfit and then split it?

The first option would not be a good solution for reasons I already stated. The second option might not be any faster than making the pieces separately.

Unless we’ve actually created clothing for MMOs it’s hard to know exactly how to improve the process. I would think professionals would know more than people who have no idea how it’s done.

Look, one last try.
If you want to make any object in a game, no matter what. You have to first make an 3d model in a modeling tool.

This already happened with the outfits that are right now in the game. This needs to happen if we want to make any armor in the game.

What I am saying is: The 3d data is the starting point. It’s the same for armor and for outfits.

To make the 3d data for every race/gender is what takes the most time.
This work is already done.

Now take the 3d model of the outfit, cut it into 6 different pieces and make 6 separate 3d models out of it. Then just do what you normally do to make armor from a 3d model.

Djinn.9245:

Well, I sincerely doubt they would simply convert Outfits to armor. That would be even less profitable than making new armor and have the additional effect of upsetting players who already purchased the Outfits.

Why would it be less profitable?
Right now so many people don’t buy outfits,
-because they don’t want to look like exact copies of everyone else that bought the same outfit.
-because they love customizing they’re different armor pieces and are always looking for an improvement with a different piece. If you buy an outfight you can change color and you have to never pay attention to it again. The fashionwar just ended.

If you allow people to buy armor sets instead of outfits people will buy 4 complete sets just to get 4 different parts. This is way more money.

You can still sell the outfits, there is no need at all to remove them. Why should you.

Why are you people so needlessly resisting the idea of adding something amazing to this game? It’s like talking to people that have never overcome any problem in their live.
Do you think people at Anet are incompetent? They’ll figure it out. They have never mentioned a specific major problem or blocker that would prevent this thing from happening.

Djinn.9245:

They are talking about the way the develop Outfits and Armor now, not a hypothetical way that you think they could do it. There is also the work on each individual piece for each weight, sex, and race.

What is your point?

Tell me, do we not have at this point in time outfits that are completely modeled for:
- every race
- every gender
- every combination of gender and race

Yes or no?
Do you think that anet is the only company in the entire world that does not use a 3d model tool to create a 3d model?
Do you think the armors we already have in the game are not also created in a 3d model tool?

Do you want to tell me now why you are saying that we can’t start making the already existing 3d data of the already created outfits, that are already adjusted for each and every possible combination of gender and race and make armor out of it like anet has done it so many times before?

What is your point?

Linken.6345:

Yes it seems it is or dont you think anet would have done it by now if it wasent?

Okay, I can live with that answer. You actually don’t know it, you assume that Anet acts reasonably and answered honestly, it’s therefore not possible.

I don’t assume that the answer we were given was honest. The outfits have to be created in a 3d model tool. There is literally no reason why they can’t take that data and make a normal armor set out of it. Like they did with every other armor in the game.

- Clipping is no excuse.
- Attachment problems make no sense.
- ‘Distinguishable -Armor -Type’ argument is at this point in time no more valid
- Too time consuming, can’t be an excuse when 80-90% of the work is already done

What is the reason? I already said I don’t know it.

maddoctor.2738:

I’d love to see someone navigating Draconis Mons on a mount!
Or any of the LS3 maps really. Or any HoT map.

This thing that we have waypoints so mounts aren’t useful is old news. Now we have a lot more than waypoints to get around the maps. Bouncing Mushrooms, Updrafts, Gliding, Ley-line gliding, nuhoch wallows, Thermal Tubes and Oakheart Essences (depends on map) all make navigating the maps much easier than any mount ever would.

If they add mounts then the expansion 2 maps will be boring and flat, in order for them to be useful. I don’t want boring and flat maps.

So you find that the HoT maps are easy to navigate? Are you serious?
Look at all the stuff anet had to recently add to the maps to enable us to travel without waypoints. Look at all the crap that is in those maps that completely breaks the immersion for many players.

Mushrooms that can suddenly catapult you hundreds of meters in the air and that make you invulnerable if you fall down on them.

Magic tunnel systems that teleport or catapult you through the entire map.

Ley line energy flows that are suddenly everywhere and that somehow magically enable you to stay in the air, that stretch through the entire zone and are annoying to look at.

Updrafts that can suddenly be seen everywhere and are ugly to look at.

More and more, some of us, have the feeling that this game is slowly becoming one giant jumping puzzle.

I would rather have an immersive way to travel around the game like a mount. Something that doesn’t destroy the aesthetics of the environment I am playing in. Something that does not enable you to completely skip any content that lies between you and the point where a nuhoch wallow would teleport you.

The HoT maps are a mess. Still beautiful and full of little detail, granted but still a mess to navigate, especially if you are not that familiar with the map. Anet has recognized this after the critique they’ve got after the expansion release.

I think that’s also the reason why they designed the new expansion maps with a completely different approach. The new maps will be wide and open. Easy to navigate, yet not too easy to traverse. Fewer waypoints (a continuing trend) but to compensate for the lack of all the above mentioned ‘crap’ you will get a variety of different and awesome mounts which is in reality an extension of your character and will lead to more character progression and customization.