Guild Wars 2

I like the new BL map.

For the couple weeks after HoT launch I didn’t play WvW as much as before, due to Halloween event, checking out new Maguuma maps, and building guild hall (which unfortunately, even for only the WvW upgrades, requires a lot of PvE).

Now I’m playing WvW about the same as before. The new map is great, IMO, and I even like the new environmental mechanics on it.

The problem is the core mechanics — scoring, population imbalance, "night"capping — are still broken (which Anet has acknowledged and said they are working on, but I’m not holding my breath). It’s these broken core mechanics which drive people away from WvW fundamentally; a new map isn’t going to help that much in bringing people back if these are still broken.

Also, I like auto-upgrades in principle, but I don’t like they fact that they also made yaks optional for upgrades. IMO flipping camps and killing yaks needs to indefinitely prevent upgrades from occurring, similar to the old system. Otherwise the value of yaks and defending supply lines is severely diminished. This was a depressing change added with HoT.

And a lot of the fun of new WvW stuff in the expansion was supposed to be the guild upgrades. But they are severely gated behind guild halls which require a ton of money and PvE farming. And WvW guilds would rather spend that money on already-expensive food and superior siege, and don’t particularly like PvE farming. Plus the upgrades themselves, which are obtained via scribing, also seem to be expensive consumables. It’s like Anet removed the gold cost of upgrading structures (a nod to the fact that you simply don’t make that much gold playing WvW) but then went and added that gold cost right back in the form of guild upgrades. Another depressing change that is liable to drive players away now and in the future if it isn’t changed.

Confirmed I’m also still getting this bug.

Bug, the lunatic courtier is still walking around Lion’s Arch talking about the Mad King’s realm.

Jamais vu.5284:

BrickFurious.7169:

I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.

The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. It has been like this since the game launched, from the original orb event and quaggan island, to ruins/bloodlust, to the very basics like escorting/sniping yaks, taking down walls and gates, killing guards and lords, etc. The oasis event and the shrine bonuses are completely within this design philosophy.

Dude?

The removal of the Quaggan/Krait event (that absolutely no one did because it’s a brainless PvE grind) in favour of the ruins was hailed as an improvement. That they now went back to PvE centric objective design is a step back!

What is “PvE centric objective design”? And do walls/gates, dolyaks, and keep lords/guards count as PvE centric objective design, why or why not?

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

Chaba.5410:

Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”

I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.

The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. .

And you seem oblivious to the difference between artificial environmental obstacles and natural/organic obstacles and that when people object to the former it doesn’t mean they are also referring about the latter.

Aha, now we’re getting down to the meat of things a little. So which are the artificial obstacles, and which are the organic ones?

Would have thought it was pretty clear, pop up rocks are artificial, something like a swamp affecting movement is natural.

Got it, so rocks are artificial and swamps are natural. Never mind that WvW has no such swamps (I was hoping for some actual examples from WvW). What are walls and gates then, artificial or natural?

OK then so you are not willing to debate it honestly, cya. And so much for wanting better criticism than just some of the bashing that goes on here.

The Superior Sigil of Energy is strong with this one.

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

Chaba.5410:

Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”

I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.

The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. .

And you seem oblivious to the difference between artificial environmental obstacles and natural/organic obstacles and that when people object to the former it doesn’t mean they are also referring about the latter.

Aha, now we’re getting down to the meat of things a little. So which are the artificial obstacles, and which are the organic ones?

Would have thought it was pretty clear, pop up rocks are artificial, something like a swamp affecting movement is natural.

Got it, so rocks are artificial and swamps are natural. Never mind that WvW has no such swamps (I was hoping for some actual examples from WvW). What are walls and gates then, artificial or natural?

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

Chaba.5410:

Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”

I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.

The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. .

And you seem oblivious to the difference between artificial environmental obstacles and natural/organic obstacles and that when people object to the former it doesn’t mean they are also referring about the latter.

Aha, now we’re getting down to the meat of things a little. So which are the artificial obstacles, and which are the organic ones?

Kilver.7094:

BrickFurious.7169:

Chaba.5410:

Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”

I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.

The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. It has been like this since the game launched, from the original orb event and quaggan island, to ruins/bloodlust, to the very basics like escorting/sniping yaks, taking down walls and gates, killing guards and lords, etc. The oasis event and the shrine bonuses are completely within this design philosophy.

Are you worried about the future of this game mode, or do you just want to discuss the true definition of “Pve” from a philosophical standpoint?

If “PvE” is going to be continually leveled as a form of criticism, it is hardly a philosophical discussion to demand a substantive definition of it.

And of course I’m worried about the future of this game mode. Wanna throw another false dilemma at me?

Chaba.5410:

Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”

I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.

The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. It has been like this since the game launched, from the original orb event and quaggan island, to ruins/bloodlust, to the very basics like escorting/sniping yaks, taking down walls and gates, killing guards and lords, etc. The oasis event and the shrine bonuses are completely within this design philosophy.

Yeah…I’m hoping this is one of the issues they’re planning to solve now that WvW is supposedly their #1 live development priority.

I’m one of the ones that is actually glad they removed guard stacks, and I think lowering the amount of world ability points required to get the current tracks was a good call. Some of them are really important, like increased supply capacity, and a long slog to get them could easily turn off a new player.

But there’s tons of other ways of spending the points they could come up with. WvW autoloot. Specific WvW skin unlocks. Access to a superior siege vendor that sells superior siege at an increased gold/badge cost. I’m sure we all could brainstorm more.

Xillllix.3485:

Chaba.5410:

Xillllix.3485:

Quote from the review:
“There’s also a sprawling, beautiful new world-versus-world battleground called the Desert Borderlands that grants powerful bonuses for holding keeps, but two weeks on, there were never enough people playing it for me to truly see it in action. "

Even IGN recognizes the outdated WvW server system that leaves us with 3 empty copies of the new map (which we all agree is beautiful).

I see nothing in that IGN quote about the server system, only about lack of players. Come on. There’s a lot of problems regarding WvW right now and they need good discussion, not weird logic.

The lack of players is due in great part to the server system, the old Alpine maps were also empty before the update. Even if they did added waypoint to the new map there is not enough players around to fill them.

Huh?

Are you trying to say the lack of players is because there are too many servers, or because there are 4 maps in a match? Those aren’t the same thing.

Selwynn.2758:

Any event in which I fight non player mobs to drop pieces of loot that I then carry to a Non-player character in order to get a reward of a non-player action in which a giant automatic lazer does damage is more than reasonably called “PvE.” It doesn’t matter that others players might show up to this event. The event does not depend on any opposing players to show up, and can be completed solo. I know, because I did it.

Gotcha, but when you fight a non-player object (walls, gates) so that you can gain access to a non-player mob to fight (keep/tower lord), and then you stand in a non-player circle for a certain amount of time, that’s not PvE? This is the crux of my complaint with your continued use of “PvE” as term of criticism. Perhaps I’m not explaining well, but you clearly aren’t understanding me. Taking a tower or keep doesn’t depend on opposing players showing up either. Why is the oasis event PvE, but the process of taking a tower or keep not PvE? I’m assuming that you don’t believe taking a keep is PvE, because otherwise — given your distaste for PvE — I would expect you wouldn’t be playing WvW in the first place.

OK, you don’t think I’m using the term PvE correctly. Fine. So I will make up a new term to name what I am talking about. I shall call it Doober vs. Flumpy (or DvF) Since I’m making the term, you can’t come back and tell me I defined it wrong.

This is real cute, but perhaps you could start with flat out defining what you mean by “PvE” when you’re using it as a term of criticism. You sort of define it above, but again, you’ll have to explain why your definition applies to the oasis event and not to taking towers and keeps. Especially given that enemy players can significantly interfere with both activities.

(2) I also don’t like the gimmicky (my opinion, other’s disagree) environmental effects in the zone. Any time the landscape and environment becomes its own “character” in a WvW zone (when the land can rise up and block you with rock walls, or winds knock you down, or dust stealths you, or portals are set up like mazes, or the landscape is complex enough to create travel funnels or barriers to direct access) I hate it. I don’t want to battle the environment (in this case literally the environment) I want to battle other players.

I’ve written this in every post I’ve made and you’ve ignored it and said I only care about oasis in ever response you’ve made.

I actually wrote a whole post responding to this specific point of yours. You seem to have missed it, here’s the direct link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-has-been-my-life-for-3-Years-HoT-Review/page/2#post5729179

Fannwong.3059:

Hello Cogbyrn,

I only WvW, so even when my guild does GMs I don’t go because I do not like PVE, I like fighting real people. My fractal is only lvl 1, I tried it for 20min and dropped the raid because I couldn’t take the boredom.

I spend about 80% of my WvW in borderlands vs EBG. I do not fight for karma, gold nor the loot because I have my ascended weapons and armor. I have been kindly supported by my guild [SOX] officers for siege and the like. I work with 5-20 realm mates in WvW usually. I fight to kill enemies, destroy structures, get PPT.

I communicate in TS and private chats with smaller groups like scouts, skirmishers and roamers for knocking off yaks, scouting and tapping keeps across 2 or 3 maps including EBG.

I tried the new maps every day since it came out. I did not buy HoT because I am running a frontline guardian about 99% of the time so DH didn’t interest me.

I was in the new post-HoT WvW for 100% of the time that I was logged on. Tried the paths, etc.

There are many issues at hand with the new borderlands, I will highlight a few that bothered me in T1 (just me, I don’t presume to speak for anybody else in the same tier or other tiers. I recognise that each tier has different population density in WvW and this changes gameplay).

1. Automatic Upgrades – This is a big issue. When I raid either with 5 or 20, I make it a point to break structures when the opportunity arises. As the old upgrades were made by real people, breaking structures makes me feel like I’ve accomplished against the enemy something when I finally take the structure. When I take part or lead defence of our fortified/reinforced keep, it feels good because I’ve helped my realm mates who worked as a team taking hours to upgrade and siege the structure with love and care.

Having automatic upgrades robs the incentive to defend and attack. I felt that by breaking a structure I wasn’t fighting against a human enemy because it was done automatically.

2. WP Changes – WP is a projection of power way beyond the keep, almost 1/3 of the old BL map. This is key in upgrading a keep. Taking a WP deals a serious blow to the enemy and it affects the strategic play in the map. Taking a WP also deals a big blow to enemy morale. Having 3 WPs in a our borderland meant that the borderland was in our control, it’s like having a homeland secured. We even had folks who were dedicated to homeland defence.

When the WP on left and right keep went missing, it changed the map considerably. On a strategic level, it changed the thought process and way that we could defend it. It became very hard for a small population to defend the homeland. Losing east/west keep wasn’t so important because no WP meant that the south was hard to contain anyway. Btw, even in T1, WvW population can drop very dramatically in off peak so much so that home BL can only muster 10+ folks sometimes.

3. Fortified Doors – This discourages 5 man teams to take a fortified structure, with fortified doors the structure did not have a weakness. Reinforced gates in fortified structures gave small groups a fighting chance to break it.

4. Map Size & Complexity – This is very subjective, for me it felt the map was made with numerous alternatives to approach an objective. This would be great if we had a huge population like launch time but with a smaller pop it’s very hard to find fights or drop an ambush.

Overall, I feel that a combination of these factors plus others have made me stop loving and playing WvW.

FW

Wow, ask and you shall receive. Thank you Fannwong for this clearly-stated, high-quality criticism (and thank you to the others who have been submitting similar criticism). I have renewed hope in this thread.

morrolan.9608:

BrickFurious.7169:

The core gameplay of WvW involves enemy players manipulating the environment to challenge you and get in your way. And your response must be to try and manipulate the environment back in your favor. Literally every objective in WvW works this way. Enemy players take keeps and towers, which erect walls and gates that get in your way. If they hold those keeps and towers for a while, the walls and gates get stronger and become even more of a hindrance. Players erect siege weaponry to deny access to areas, or to take down the gates and walls so the environment becomes more favorable to them. And then there are secondary objectives (initial the orb mechanic, then the ruins/bloodlust). This was all present in the core release of WvW.

That has got nothing to do with what s/he was talking about.

Aww, now don’t be a tease, please enlighten us about what s/he was actually talking about.

coglin.1867:

BrickFurious.7169:

DeceiverX.8361:

My biggest gripes with the new BL’s are the absolutely ridiculous buffs given to defenders through auto-upgrade being solely time-based and not even coming close to how slow or difficult the process was. Defense has turned into a “set and forget” process, for the objectives will upgrade quickly enough to largely defend themselves.

This is actually my biggest gripe too, though it isn’t related just to the new BLs. As you suggested, auto-upgrading is fine, but inevitable upgrading is not. There needs to be some way for enemy players to prevent an upgrade from happening besides just capturing the objective. I think the most obvious and easy change is to make it so that a certain amount of yaks are required to reach an objective before it upgrades (in addition to the timer), similar to how upgrades were gated by the number of yaks that reached them prior to HoT.

I completely agree with this sentiment. The problem is that there were many many threads, with many many post, clamoring for an easier time defending. As much as I do not like it, there was a vast amount of post demanding a change to help defenders. Now guess what we have?

I like the other changes Anet made to help defending (T3 gates, guild upgrades), I just think they went too far by making yak-less, inevitable upgrades a possibility, and that this is a change they should backtrack on slightly. Managing supply lines is supposed to be part of the strategy for defense, and this change makes supply line management less important. I think the other buffs to defense are sufficient and stand on their own; inevitable upgrades both overbuff defense and make defensive strategy more boring.

I like the auto-upgrading. I didn’t think babysitting upgrades was that much fun (and I certainly didn’t like having to pay gold for it).

What I don’t like is inevitable auto-upgrading. I know escorting yaks takes time off the upgrade timer, but I don’t think that puts enough value on yaks. I’d prefer a version of the old system, where a structure needs both time and a certain amount of yaks to reach it in order to upgrade. The structure can still auto-upgrade, just as long as these two requirements have been fulfilled.

DeceiverX.8361:

My biggest gripes with the new BL’s are the absolutely ridiculous buffs given to defenders through auto-upgrade being solely time-based and not even coming close to how slow or difficult the process was. Defense has turned into a “set and forget” process, for the objectives will upgrade quickly enough to largely defend themselves.

This is actually my biggest gripe too, though it isn’t related just to the new BLs. As you suggested, auto-upgrading is fine, but inevitable upgrading is not. There needs to be some way for enemy players to prevent an upgrade from happening besides just capturing the objective. I think the most obvious and easy change is to make it so that a certain amount of yaks are required to reach an objective before it upgrades (in addition to the timer), similar to how upgrades were gated by the number of yaks that reached them prior to HoT.

Selwynn.2758:

The PvE event is a big frustration. But another one is the map design that includes, in my opinion, a ton of environmental gimmicks that interfere with server vs. server combat and make me feel like I’m striving to “beat” the landscape more than I am striving to beat other players. To me, that’s a similar but different complaint than complaining about a PvE event that includes killing a bunch of monsters for a gather quest. This is about a map design that treats an map-area for WORLD vs. WORLD combat like a pve leveling map. I don’t want to run into earth barriers, or portal mazes, or environmental stealth fields, or be trying to solve the puzzle of how to get up three levels of verticality and then over a chasm in order to reach my objective. I don’t want to be “challenged” by the environment. In WvW. the environment should basically look nice and stay the frick out of my way, not asserting itself as a “character” in my WvW experience. Other PLAYERS are the only characters I want to be influencing my WvW experience. (emphasis mine)

I want to single out and respond to this part of your post as well, since it seems to echo many other players’ complaints about the new map. This also seems to be related to your complaints about “PvE” in WvW; it seems that any time something other than a player influences your experience in WvW, you refer to it as “PvE”.

I’m going to be frank about this part of your post, and in particular the part I bolded at the end. It’s contrary to the way that WvW has been designed from the very beginning. I don’t think any amount of changes Anet makes is going to satisfy you in this regard, because your complaint goes against the core design of WvW. WvW is not about what you seem to think it is about.

The core gameplay of WvW involves enemy players manipulating the environment to challenge you and get in your way. And your response must be to try and manipulate the environment back in your favor. Literally every objective in WvW works this way. Enemy players take keeps and towers, which erect walls and gates that get in your way. If they hold those keeps and towers for a while, the walls and gates get stronger and become even more of a hindrance. Players erect siege weaponry to deny access to areas, or to take down the gates and walls so the environment becomes more favorable to them. And then there are secondary objectives (initial the orb mechanic, then the ruins/bloodlust). This was all present in the core release of WvW.

HoT has changed the secondary objectives to involve the shrines. If you don’t want to run into rock walls or stealth fields, you have the option of going and taking control of the earth shrines so you can turn off those environmental effects. Once again, just another example of players manipulating the environment in their favor; this is hardly out of step with what WvW has been all about from the beginning.

There is certainly fighting that takes place over these objectives, of course. But WvW isn’t just about fighting, nor has it ever been only about fighting. It’s a large, objective-based PvP game mode, not team deathmatch. Fighting is a means to an end, not the end in and of itself. Many players who only really care about fighting formed GvG guilds so they could fight against each other. Which is fine really; many servers have arrangements where those guilds focus on fighting while other guilds focus on taking objectives. But the basic fact is that everything about WvW, from the score to primary game mode mechanics, revolve around objectives that manipulate the environment based on player actions.

Once again I feel there is some valid criticism buried within this part of your post. It’s certainly possible for Anet to design objectives that aren’t fun, or that don’t involve enough player vs. player combat, or that are so overwhelming that they negate other objectives. I think time will tell whether these new objectives Anet has designed end up being more problematic than fun.

But once again you dilute the value of this part of your post, this time with the part of it that I bolded. The bolded part undermines the rest of your post, because it outs you as a player who doesn’t seem to enjoy the core aspect of what makes WvW WvW. Based on that part of your post, it seems to me that the game mode just isn’t designed to fulfill your interests, and that it never has been. I don’t know if that truly is the case. But if you do actually enjoy the basic design philosophy of WvW — a large-scale, objective-based PvP map, where players manipulating the environment to the detriment of other players is just as much a part of the game as combat with other players — then you need to focus your criticism on the ways in which Anet has implemented that design philosophy, and not on the philosophy itself. Otherwise your criticism will only fall on deaf ears, as any WvW developer worth his/her salt will immediately recognize that you are not their target customer for this particular product.

Selwynn.2758:

So, my apologies that in my frustration I exaggerated about PvE content in WvW. Let me try to be more precise. There are groups of players that define themselves as WvW focused. That is where they spend 90 percent of their gametime. Of people who identify WvW as their game focus, I cannot name one who would ask for PvE events in WvW. It’s the last thing on earth we would want. The Oasis event is the ultimate zone-wide event, and completing it has potentially extreme consequences on the WvW of the map. The laser destroys paper keep doors, takes reinforced doors to 20% and fortified doors to 50%. All without any WvW involved. How is this accompled? Through a PvE gather quest.

You wrote a lot more in your post but I want to address this part in particular, because it is at the heart of my complaint about your original post and you repeat it again here.

I’m honestly not trying to be pedantic here, but I’ll repeat myself again in different words: Calling the oasis event a “PvE event” is not only nonsensical, it’s not helpful at all in describing what you’re really complaining about. You think it is clear that when you call it a “PvE gather quest”, that we should understand the criticism you are trying to level, and it isn’t clear at all.

The oasis event is an objective, in a PvP map, where enemy players can interfere with your ability to complete it. By that very definition it is not a PvE event. In a PvE event, the only enemies that can interfere with your ability to complete it are computer controlled characters or computer controlled environments. Just because it is possible that enemy players will not be present at the oasis event does not qualify it as a PvE event. I have participated in oasis events where enemy players were contesting it, and trust me, it felt nothing like a PvE event.

The Oasis event is the ultimate zone-wide event, and completing it has potentially extreme consequences on the WvW of the map. The laser destroys paper keep doors, takes reinforced doors to 20% and fortified doors to 50%.

This seems to be your true complaint, and it is clearly stated (thank you). You bury it in all your talk about “WvW-focused players” and “PvE events” and its value is nearly lost because of that. Your problem with the event is not that it is “PvE” (it isn’t). Your problem is that it has the potential to be too impactful. You didn’t say this, but perhaps you also agree with other players who have said the event may favor overpopulated servers because of this. These are all very valid criticisms that, should they prove truly problematic, will need to be addressed by Anet.

I don’t mean to single you out in particular; as I said, the quality of criticism in this forum has taken a drama-filled nosedive since HoT launched and you are hardly the only culprit. I’m only making an example out of your post as a way of highlighting the desperate need for better quality and more clearly-stated criticism. Many, many posters have taken to calling something they don’t like about the new WvW map and changes “PvE”, thinking that this adequately describes their complaints, when it doesn’t at all.

It’s extremely important that what players are actually complaining about is made crystal clear. Because changes to existing WvW content and the development of future content hinges quite a bit on this kind of player feedback. And if it isn’t clear, as others have mentioned, players are likely to get exactly what they asked for (but not what they really wanted).

I’ve been having this issue too. Haven’t noticed it being related to quickness or slow though. Just seems to be a delay from when I finish the stomp and the enemy is actually finished.

The problem is that during that delay it’s still possible for them to rally. Had this happen a few times now where I finished a stomp, it wasn’t interrupted, and nothing happened; two seconds later they rallied off a dead ally.

Judging by the issues some forum users are having getting used to the new map, videos like this are sorely needed. Thank you.

Chaba.5410:

BrickFurious.7169:

My post (which was me being facetious in case anyone didn’t pick up on it)

It’s all about the jumping puzzles, man!

I just had a great idea. Wait for it…a “jumping to conclusions” puzzle. Like, it’s a puzzle, but with a bunch of conclusions that you can jump to.

Brow.9425:

I don’t want to add a low quality comment, but I want to point out that only half the complaints are “too much PvE”. An equal or even greater number is saying “not enough PvP”.

I followed a commander around for an hour on what I was told was the new reset night, took all the keeps on our home BL, saw 5 enemies putting up resistance, and no seige. Was lost most of the time.

What gets more confusing is that sometimes players use these complaints interchangeably, when they really mean very different things. The “not enough PvP” complaint I definitely get, although I’m seeing more people starting to trickle into the new BL maps. The new HoT PvE content + Halloween really decimated WvW populations, it’ll be a while before they’re at full strength again (full as in the same strength as just prior to HoT).

In the meantime…if you haven’t learned the new BL map yet, there’s no better time than now. Lot’s of freedom to just roam around and explore it.

ArchonWing.9480:

P: Well, WvW should have this and that. And some rewards, and stuff stuff stuff.
A: Alright! We can do that.
P: Wait, but I want to fight other players while doing this
A: You what?
P: Well, I didn’t think I had to tell you that I entered this game mode to go against players and not your AI.
A: But we’ve improved our AI. Just look at the new Maguuma Jungle zones. You’ll get a similar experience in WvW while you work for your specializations.
P: Yea, that’s nice and all, but the idea of going against an unpredictable human opponent is not the same. And we like to succeed by using our skill; we don’t want to win just because we played more to get something.
A: But what about the exploration?
P: What about the exploration? The map is revealed to begin with.
A: Oh, does that mean you want it so the map should be covered until you explore it?
P: NO, I want to make it so that I know where I’m going, being a strategic game mode and such.
A: Are you sure you’re not talking about PvP? We’re holding a tournament soon.
P: $#%@^$# Kittenkittenkitten
A: Well, are you going to buy gems?
P2: Anet plz let me and my 66 friends get into this full server. This is killing WvW
A: Ah, we see. So this server has not enough people. We can fix that.
P: About those fi…
P2: NOOOO! You’re supposed to take points like Anet intended. Stop violating my game mode.

P2 gets his 64 friends to zerg the thread, drowning out P

6 months later
A: We are proud to announce our new World vs World. Now players will have to explore the map so they can seek their enemies. But before that, they will have to gain abilities like jump mastery and climbing mastery. Doing so will require 1000 hero points which you can get in our new PvE zones!
P: We never asked for this:
F: Yes you did. I copy and pasted your entire post history and found 567 instances of progression and exploration
P: That’s out of context.
F: Stop whining! They put in all this work, and all you want to do is whine and be handed everything.
S: Yep, still the same game from 2 years ago. Glad I quit 4 years ago. [/spoiler]

I laughed. Thank you for continuing to try and push people to give more substantive criticism (and condense it into substantive feedback for Anet).

I don’t think trying to analyze where WvW fits on the spectrum between PvE and PvP is the healthiest way to think about it. WvW is large-scale, objective-based PvP. Structured PvP is small-scale, objective-based PvP. They’re both objective-based PvP, and in any kind of objective-based PvP, you’re going to have elements where players are interacting with non-player objects. Whether it’s lords, guards, walls and gates in GW2 WvW, bombs in CS, flags in CTF in tons of different games, the payload in TF2, creeps in DOTA…I could go on.

My post (which was me being facetious in case anyone didn’t pick up on it) is just me poking at the generic complaint of “too much PvE” that I see thrown around here a lot with regards to the new WvW BL map (and on the sPvP forum with regards to stronghold). It’s turned into a catch-all complaint that has no meaning whatsoever, other than to help the complainer express a vague dissatisfaction that they have difficulty putting into words.

WvW is a PvP game mode. Period. It involves competing against other players to try and earn a higher score. Or it involves just running around and killing other players, if you’re into that. What some people seem to have a problem with is the objectives involved. Some of the new ones in particular, like the shrines and the oasis event, seem to bother people. That’s fine, I’d love to hear their complaints. What about those objectives exactly do you not like? Just saying “too much PvE” is absolutely meaningless.

Seriously, the camps have sharks now, that’s way too much PvE.

Tspatula.9086:

BrickFurious.7169:

“50% gimmick” unfortunately is still just as vague as “too much PvE”, I still have no idea what you’re actually complaining about there. The oasis event? The air turrets? (which, btw, I will actually complain about those; there needs to be some kind of visual warning before they go off, like they light up or something right before they fire).

Well, in my limited experience so far, the air keep traps especially the ones in the lords room are just overdone. things auto upgrade way too fast (though I am pretty sure that is probably the first thing that will get changed when we start to see changes). It’s obnoxious to get flipped around every few seconds without warning. The outside air traps make an already difficult terrain to maneuver even more so, I have yet to experience a fight as an incoming force there but it gives an overwhelming advantage to the keep. The rock walls that pop up are just silly. And the fire traps and so on…. I haven’t experience the stat boosts but for sure, all of these fairly powerful environment upgrades absolutely should not appear automatically, some of the auto upgrades are fine but others need to have some work associated with them in my opinion.
I have yet to experience the laser event but something that basically destroys all objective gates on the map seems crazy OP to me. Some aspects of the new map are going to end up being just fine after we learn them, the 40% speed buff from the shrines goes a long way to making travel easier, but there will need to be a lot of tuning and tweaking for them to play well…

It only destroys paper gates, upgraded gates just get damaged.

And I think the one change they could make to auto-upgrades would be to make it so that yaks are no longer optional (I’ve been arguing this since auto-upgrades were first announced). Say an upgrade takes X:XX amount of time PLUS X yaks that successfully reach it in order to occur. This brings back a lot of the strategic value of yaks that was lost with the recent changes. Everything else about auto-upgrades I’m a fan of.

cillard.3986:

BrickFurious.7169:

1. I really think this is going to be a L2P thing. After spending probably 10 hours total in the new BL, I feel like I know it really well, and it really doesn’t feel convoluted.

I spent more time than that during beta.

The only thing I do in this game is WvW. 10 hours on the map could be a single rainy weekend day for me…..

It isn’t a L2P issue and frankly, I find that comment to be horribly insulting. The maps themselves are laid out in a very bad manner. It is that… period.

I disagree. (?°?°)?? ???

Edit: forum fail, that was supposed to be the table flipping emoji.

cillard.3986:

BrickFurious.7169:

They’re trying to encourage individual character progression, which I get, which is why they want the scrolls to be soulbound. I dunno, we’ll see.

No, that is what one dev said they are trying to do. The reality doesn’t match that statement.

1. sPvP progression is account based

2. WvW ranks are account based. They were character progression, but ANET purposefully changed it to be account progression.

3. Masteries are account based

4. Ascended / Legendary gear progression is account based.

Not only that, nearly everything is in this game is account based. Don’t believe everything you read just because it is a Red name posting it….

And what is the one new thing they added in HoT that is individual character progression based? Elite specs. You have to go out and get hero points on each individual character to unlock them in PvE/WvW. Hence they want to make unlocking elite specs in WvW an individual character thing too. Are you arguing they should make unlocking elite specs an account wide progression mechanic too, even in PvE?

cillard.3986:

BrickFurious.7169:

3. This is a more general WvW complaint, not specific to the new HoT WvW content. There’s a lot of general complaints I could throw in with it, but there’s no point, since Anet said they’re working on fixing a lot of these core issues. If this is a problem for you, right now you either have to play and have fun despite the issues, or find another game to play in the meantime.

I hope you aren’t holding your breath while waiting for that. Still waiting on them to deliver some very basic things they said they would at release. Even as something a simple as making the WvW achievements more reasonable took over two years…..

When it comes to developmental priority, WvW is literally in the back of the bus. Sorry, but they haven’t earned the benefit of the doubt.

Of course I’m not holding my breath. But even though WvW has the potential to be a lot more fun once they fix the core issues, I’m still having fun regardless. I also don’t play WvW exclusively (lot’s of sPvP and occasional PvE).

And since you’re still here and writing on the forums, I hope that means you’re still having some fun too. If not, then no amount of substantive complaining is going to help you, you’re really better off just moving on to sPvP/PvE or another game.

cillard.3986:

So about the HOT changes, new and old maps alike:

1. The servers are lagging in fights far worse than they did prior to the xpac. This applies to both the new maps and EB equally, and makes the game unplayable large fights because none of your buttons respond. This is a game breaking problem.

Agreed.

The new maps specifically:

1. They are too big. The levels and layers make the maps not just ‘large’, but greatly so. If the servers and code could handle more players, this may be a nonissue. Unfortunately, the game is performing far worse than it used to, so adding even more players into the mix to ‘fill’ the map isn’t currently viable. Also, this does nothing to solve the problem on less active, lower tier servers.

Addressed this a bit in my previous post to this. Really think this is just going to be a L2P thing while people learn the new maps. Travel times in them are really about the same. Agree that the performance issues exacerbates the feeling of the maps being too large and those need to be addressed.

2. They are too convoluted. Too many twists, turns, and elevation changes. Some of this can be attributed to learning the new maps, but even after spending extensive time in beta and post xpac launch, my opinion on this has not changed. Perhaps allowing gliders in WvW would solve some of this? Can’t say without testing.

Basically same as my response to #1. The really twisty/turny parts of the map are really meant for roamers anyway, as it’s typically the shrines that are in the off-the-beaten-track parts of the map. The pathways between main objectives are fairly straightforward. Gliding, while it would be awesome in WvW, would completely break it as players could likely just glide over walls and gates.

3. Too many gimmicks. The concept fueling the implementation of these gimmicks is sounds, unfortunately its was flawed from the very beginning in their design. Splitting up forces and fights to reduce the blobs is still a great concept, but introducing all of the buffs and debuffs just makes the game more frustrating to play.

You addressed this in another post, but for other posters: just saying “too many gimmicks” is not helpful. I don’t know which gimmicks you are referring to. I have to guess (in this case I know you’re mainly complaining about air turrets, and the stealth sand and crippling fields around earth keep).

4. The super laser PvE event. Looks, this PvE even can be fun as hell when you have three sides fighting for it and you can actually hit buttons and have them fire off abilities. Unfortunately forcing action into one place in a map you designed to split people up is more than a bit counterproductive. It is a really neat idea, but the game just can’t handle all those people in one place at the moment. IF you can work our the server lag problems it may be kinda of cool if you can work out the timing of the event to correspond to some metric regarding server peak times.

I did this event with 3 large teams fighting in the last stress test, there was no lag, and it was amazing. Tons of fun. This complaint really boils down to the lag/performance issues, it doesn’t seem to be a complaint about the oasis event itself.

5. The keeps…… god these are absolutely beautiful. Whoever did the artwork did an amazing job on them. From a play standpoint, not so good. The gimmicks (god the stupid overkill on gimmicky crap!), size, and defensibility are all problems.

The shrine gimmicks for each keep? Or do you mean some other gimmick? They are large, which makes things interesting for defense. Though they also buffed defense through guild upgrades and T3 gates, so I’m kind of glad the keeps are large because it means attackers have a better chance of actually breaching one before they are discovered.

6. The chests and scrolls. The chests should stack in inventory and remain account bound. The notarized scrolls should be made account bound. Tyler said the chests being account bound were a bug and it would be fixed. This would be a huge huge mistake.

Yeah I agree the design for this seems somewhat lacking. They’re trying to encourage individual character progression, which I get, which is why they want the scrolls to be soulbound. I dunno, we’ll see.

7. Autoloot. Enable autoloot in WvW and make it purchasable from WvW points and not masteries. Nobody wants to freaking grind masteries in PvE just to be able to do something they should have always been able to do from the beginning in a game. Seriously, it is just archaic in modern gaming to make you loot bags off the ground.

Autoloot from masteries doesn’t work in WvW anyway. Tyler said they’re thinking of ways to add it to WvW, using WvW ranks perhaps. Regardless, it was annoying to find out that it wouldn’t work in WvW, it was the only reason I thought about getting it.

8. Speaking of loot bags ….why do I still see everyone else’s freaking loot bags on the ground. Fix that kitten already.

Yeah this bug is annoying.

cillard.3986:

BrickFurious.7169:

Why do I bother? Because I’m desperately searching for substantive criticism of the new BL on this forum so I can try and figure out why many people hate it so much. I’m sure Anet is doing the same so they can sort through feedback on possible changes they should make. And this post offers none of it. This forum has been deluged with poor quality complaint posts and it’s frustrating.

Well if you can sift through the rabid ranting of the angery masses and the fanbois white knighting anet, there is a common theme.

1. Too much space and vertical shift combined with convolution on the new maps.

2. Too many gimmicks that get in the way of game play and fun instead of enhancing it. Blowers, slow fields, mass stealth, etc.

3. Lack of respect for the players when it comes to equal progression in other game modes.

I’ll write a response to your other post too since you actually included some substantive criticisms there (thank you), but just wanted to respond to this quick first.

1. I really think this is going to be a L2P thing. After spending probably 10 hours total in the new BL, I feel like I know it really well, and it really doesn’t feel convoluted. The shrines are a bit out of the way in some places (especially air keep) but they’re designed more for roamers anyway (which helps keep big zergs from interrupting their roaming fun). The pathways between the main objectives are actually really straightforward.

2. I agree the air turrets are problematic. I think the best first fix they should try is adding a tell right before they fire (maybe they light up right before they fire). The mass stealth though is really just a way of slowing down groups before they hit earth keep; they gotta flip at least one of the shrines first. And you dodge through/avoid the crippling fields. That said, clearly earth keep has been designed to be very difficult to take, on purpose. I get that. Especially when your server is severely outmanned during a given time slot, it’s nice to have just one objective that you can turtle up in and probably hold. Think of it as diminishing returns; each objective is harder and harder to take as you move north in another team’s BL.

3. This is a more general WvW complaint, not specific to the new HoT WvW content. There’s a lot of general complaints I could throw in with it, but there’s no point, since Anet said they’re working on fixing a lot of these core issues. If this is a problem for you, right now you either have to play and have fun despite the issues, or find another game to play in the meantime.

Tspatula.9086:

BrickFurious.7169:

What more PvE? I see this complaint thrown around so much….{snip}

Look an honest examination of the new borderlands reveals a sort of obsessive fixation with Z-axis tech that Anet brought out with the HoT maguma maps. It’s fantastic in the PvE maps, and gliding is genius, but it’s simply out of hand in the new borderlands map. That, and clearly aesthetics trumped all other design considerations. It’s in the guild halls too, massive areas, but the Arena, the really functional part of guild halls is too small by at least 25%, but a 100% increase is really what’s needed. There is no focus on the core gameplay of WvW, the new maps are at least 50% gimmick (and I think I am being generous here)
Play devil’s advocate and support Anet all you want, that’s fine, but EotM, and now this new borderlands clearly show Anet’s tin ear to what the WvW community need and their lack of understanding how WvW works for serious guilds. I have no doubt that they will continue to “tell” us how WvW should be played, regardless of the obvious fact that NONE of the devs are serious WvW players and none of them are willing to admit that they don’t understand the game mode very well.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to defend Anet here, especially with their history of WvW development (and I agree about the tin ear). If anything I’m just trying to encourage more substantive, high-quality critiques of the new map. Because honestly, every time someone just says the new maps have “too much PvE”, a kitten dies, and that’s just abusive.

“Too much z-axis” is moving in a better direction, that’s a complaint that is actually phrased in a way that makes sense. I honestly think this doesn’t disrupt travel times as much as people think; there’s quite a few elevators and lesser-known pathways in the new map that make up for the increased z-axis. Though I definitely understand this complaint for those who are looking for a more straightforward WvW map.

“50% gimmick” unfortunately is still just as vague as “too much PvE”, I still have no idea what you’re actually complaining about there. The oasis event? The air turrets? (which, btw, I will actually complain about those; there needs to be some kind of visual warning before they go off, like they light up or something right before they fire).

cillard.3986:

BrickFurious.7169:

What more PvE? I see this complaint thrown around so much, yet I highly doubt everyone means the same thing when they say it.

Your entire post is one giant disorganized complaint. You make a direct reference to the oasis event, and then you sort of complain about shrines. That’s it. That’s what you call “increasing the PvE to biblical proportions”. Holy drama batman. Next time try attacking those two issues directly instead of making me wade through the TL;DR morass that was your post.

And map layout design itself is not PvE. I don’t care how complex the map is. It is the “E” in which PvP takes place. You can complain all you want that the map is too complicated. I disagree. Whatever. But saying that making a map design more complex is “too much PvE” is ridiculous. That doesn’t even make any sense. How could you possibly measure the amount of PvE in a map’s design? What do you do, count all the cliffs? There certainly aren’t any more random mobs in the new BLs compared to the old ones, so you can’t possibly be talking about that. If the new maps make you walk farther, that’s too much PvE, is that it? For crying out loud, at least be more specific with your complaints instead of this random, generic whining.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this forum.

So why do you bother, if your only contribution is to attack the person and their method of complaining instead of the issues they raised. It isn’t that hard to get the gist of what that person is saying.

Because I don’t actually know what the OP is complaining about. His entire post boils down to “too much PvE” (he repeats it over and over). The gist I’m getting is that he doesn’t like the new map because it’s too complex, and he doesn’t like shrines and the oasis event. Why doesn’t he like shrines and the oasis event? Because it’s “too much PvE”. I have nothing to go off there. I can’t argue against his subjective opinion; if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t like it, that’s fine. But he’s trying to make prognostications that the new BL will be the “death knell” of WvW.

Why do I bother? Because I’m desperately searching for substantive criticism of the new BL on this forum so I can try and figure out why many people hate it so much. I’m sure Anet is doing the same so they can sort through feedback on possible changes they should make. And this post offers none of it. This forum has been deluged with poor quality complaint posts and it’s frustrating.

People are slowly starting to come back. Ignore the insane amount of doom prophets on the forums. Had a really good guild raid last night. EB is going to be your best bet for action for a while. The new BL maps are gonna take time for people to learn so many are naturally going to gravitate to EB for a while.

Selwynn.2758:

My review is pretty simple, here is how the new BLs fail and will mark the death knell for WvW unless something very drastic is done. I know of not a SINGLE person who considers WvW they’re primary interest who would ever – EVER – ask for more PvE in their WvW. Not one.

What more PvE? I see this complaint thrown around so much, yet I highly doubt everyone means the same thing when they say it.

Your entire post is one giant disorganized complaint. You make a direct reference to the oasis event, and then you sort of complain about shrines. That’s it. That’s what you call “increasing the PvE to biblical proportions”. Holy drama batman. Next time try attacking those two issues directly instead of making me wade through the TL;DR morass that was your post.

And map layout design itself is not PvE. I don’t care how complex the map is. It is the “E” in which PvP takes place. You can complain all you want that the map is too complicated. I disagree. Whatever. But saying that making a map design more complex is “too much PvE” is ridiculous. That doesn’t even make any sense. How could you possibly measure the amount of PvE in a map’s design? What do you do, count all the cliffs? There certainly aren’t any more random mobs in the new BLs compared to the old ones, so you can’t possibly be talking about that. If the new maps make you walk farther, that’s too much PvE, is that it? For crying out loud, at least be more specific with your complaints instead of this random, generic whining.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this forum.

Jim Hunter.6821:

we’ve had a lot of great conversations with our players about what they’d love to see from epic large scale PvP combat

What?!…. Where? …. Someone check twitter.

He’s referring to the WvW CDIs we had about a year ago. Which you participated in, so I have no idea why you’re being snarky about it. I’ll refresh your memory:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Solution-to-fix-the-population-imbalance/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Scoring-Discussion/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Siege-Troll-Discussion

Straegen.2938:

BrickFurious.7169:

TL;DR: They’re working on it. It’s one of their top development priorities right now. No ETA yet, but they are working on it.

Many of us have become jaded to these statements as we have seen them in various forms over the years. Very few times have they carried through on them in a timely manner. The WvW achievement issue was a priority going into the second year of GW2. It was another 2+ years before they fixed it. Even when they do a considerable effort it hasn’t gone great… EotM is a perfect example. A WvW game mode that hardly has any WvW in it.

I understand the jadedness, trust me. I was just informing the OP, since he/she was asking a question, that yes, Anet has said they will address the core issues. That’s all we know, anything else is just conjecture.

Yes, they’ve said they’re working on it before, and it hasn’t panned out yet. In the meantime, there’s other stuff in GW2 I enjoy, and there’s other games I enjoy. And even WvW in its current flawed state is still enjoyable (just with a frustrating amount of unrealized potential).

So…at this point there just isn’t much point in complaining about the core issues anymore, IMO. Anet has said they’re working on it, what else is there to say? No one is going to blame anyone for moving on to another game in the meantime, and if those people that move on never come back, well that’s on Anet. At this point, you either stick around despite the issues or stop playing WvW. Continuing to complain after Anet has acknowledged the core issues and said they’re working on it is just wasted energy.

Per this interview with Colin that was released today:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10256/Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-One-Week-In-with-Colin-Johanson.html

That being said, I’d also add one of the goals of Heart of Thorns was to address every major game system to ensure they had all the core components we need for the future of the game. Our goal was to ensure we didn’t really need to tweak any major game system again after this expansion and our focus could be entirely on adding new content, and building on top of – rather than expanding outward systemically. WvW is the one major feature I’d say we didn’t end up accomplishing this goal, the project is so large it didn’t end up fitting into the scope of the expansion and we still have work to do to address core fundamental issues like population balance, rewards, scoring, night capping, etc. As always we don’t discuss features in development until they are far enough along to share meaningful details, so for now we’ll just say WvW is the final big game system on our radar – and we’ve had a lot of great conversations with our players about what they’d love to see from epic large scale PvP combat.

And per John Corpening’s statement two months ago:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Invitational-Statement-from-John-Corpening-game-director-for-World-vs-World/first#post5350913

But World vs. World is huge and complex and so is the technology behind it. We’re continuing to work now on developing and building our solutions to the core issues I outlined above, and once we reach a point in development where we are far enough along with them, we look forward to sharing those plans with you. As work on Heart of Thorns wraps up, we’ll be treating resolving the remaining core areas in WvW as our #1 live development feature priority for the game to ensure we deliver on making World vs. World not just the great experience it is today – but the incredible experience we know it can be. As this effort ramps up you will be hearing more from us about the work in progress.

TL;DR: They’re working on it. It’s one of their top development priorities right now. No ETA yet, but they are working on it.

thisisit.6954:

Anthrage.2519:

How did this bug not get caught in testing? I noticed it in the first session…

Because the testing was for “invited” people only, not the people who would actually check that the BLs worked….

At least as of the third WvW stress test (which I participated in) this bug was found and we told Anet about it.

None of the major WvW guilds I know have been raiding. Almost everyone is playing new HoT content, doing Halloween stuff, or working on building up their guild hall.

I honestly mostly agree with OP. The map isn’t really any bigger than the old borderlands map. Travel times are the same if you own objectives along the way, slightly longer otherwise (unless you knock down the walls separating some areas).

A lot of people here are complaining about map complexity, which is very different from map size. OP is only trying to say that the size (and travel times) are basically the same as the old BL.

Sich.7103:

and please, make that the doly are required and not optionnal….
At least you can take back the supply camp or kill the doly to stop the upgrade…

This. This is the best solution IMO. Making yaks optional for upgrades really diminishes their strategic value.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Unranked arena is not blocked by rank. The conquest game mode is. You cannot queue with someone in your party who does not meet the rank requirements.

Is the intention to make stronghold the game mode players are introduced to first? Also, what is the rank requirement? I didn’t see this in the patch notes.

FYI, even if I checked both the stronghold and conquest boxes, it still wouldn’t let me queue with a rank 9 guildie. This could be mighty confusing to a new spvp player.

WvW populations, though generally lower than at their peak earlier in the game’s history, are artificially low right now, not because of the new BL, but because of the new expansion content + halloween event. None of my WvW guilds are raiding in WvW right now, they’re all checking out the new content, leveling masteries, trying to unlock their specializations, etc.

Let’s wait until WvW populations return to their pre-expansion levels before proclaiming that the new map is too large.

I don’t know whether this is a bug or intended, but there is now a rank requirement to do the unranked queue in spvp. Interestingly this only seems to apply to conquest, not stronghold.

Tried queueing with a rank 9 guildie yesterday, and we were unable to queue for conquest (got the “one of your party members is too low of rank” message). If we only checked the stronghold preference box though, we could queue just fine for stronghold.

Can confirm, tried doing unranked with a rank 9 guildie yesterday, got the “one member of your party is too low of rank” message and it wouldn’t let us. Interestingly though, this only applied to conquest; we were able to queue for stronghold just fine in unranked.

Really hoping this is a bug.

Just tried out the guild spvp missions. First off, so awesome that this is a thing, thank you.

Bit of an issue. We tried just doing a match as a guild (5 players, all repping the guild) and did not get credit toward the mission. Turns out you have to specifically form a guild spvp team for it to count. This is a tad awkward, as the game clearly recognizes when you queue as a guild. It also means we’d have to continuously shuffle guild team members so that other guild members can get credit.

Is this intended? Would it be possible to get guild mission credit for spvp missions just from queueing as a guild, without having to form a specific guild team?

qualm like a bomb.6512:

Thank you for killing small man, roaming and havok while at the same time turning the Borderlands into EoTM. I’m crying on the inside.

TLDR – the changes are kitten, anet really knows how to kill medium to low pop servers.

The drama is strong with this one.

Tons of new PvE content with HoT. The Halloween event. Guaranteed WvW doesn’t pick up full steam again until 2 weeks from now. Chill.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

So, wait, wait… +5 is gone? Like gone, gone or just locked behind guild hall? And can I get a guild hall just by myself?

Pretty sure it’s just locked behind guild hall, one of the war room upgrades.

Yeah I’m pretty happy about this. It’s still a decent place for leveling alts and getting wvw exp while you do it. But no more massive amounts of badges of honor.