Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!
(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)
About getting dragon lore from possible Thaumanova fractal, I’d still prefer the Abaddon one.
This is the game dealing with elder dragons, so we are getting dragon lore sooner or later. It would be a waste to lose a fractal spot to know more about something we could know other ways.
I want the fall of Abaddon BECAUSE WE KNOW what happens (with most fractals being so cryptic or just random places, that would be fresh air), and WE KNOW it was an event of epic proportions. Epic enough to turn a sea into the most famous dessert, so that has to be worth of experiencing.
The reactor has potential, but as for dragon lore, we could get it anywhere else, and the event itself is “Inquest blew things up” again. The combination of time, realities and chaos magic has potential, but I want to see the fall of Abaddon (and see how they design the gods too).
I wouldn’t look at it solely as “dragon magic”, although that almost certainly will play some part in it. I think it may be more appropriate to look at it in terms of the state of magic in the present compared to the state of magic in the past. What may be found through either fractal, may be an explanation of how the reemergence of the Elder Dragons has influenced the status quo of magic the gods tried to set into place. We already know bits and pieces (they consume magic) but does this in itself allow them to bypass the limitations of the Bloodstones (it would appear so to an extent) and if so, could we use this to our own end beyond making weapons out of pieces of them?
With the Fall of Abaddon, we may come to learn another angle to the, for lack of a better description coming to mind, the Forgotten Divine War (yeah, it was remembered, but only faintly and not too much as to how or why magic was distributed how it was). We are likely to find that it did in fact have some connection to the Elder Dragons (as you say, GW2 is largely about them, nearly every piece of new info will likely in some way relate to them, even if only barely), and may have occurred because the different races figured out magic too well too quickly, exceeding the expectations of the gods. With that being the case, the gods may have feared for their work being undone by the reemergence of the Elder Dragons, while Abaddon may have felt that sooner or later, they would have to be dealt with, and sooner was better than later.
However, what he may have failed to realize was that the races’ infighting and great magical output wouldn’t stir the Elder Dragons before they just ended up destroying each other. That possibly being the case, and Abaddon being too proud and stubborn, may have resulted in his being cast down while the rest of the gods tried to figure out how to fix his plan to work better. So then we get the Bloodstones that force the races to cooperate, amongst themselves and maybe each other, to achieve their previously realized power, and thus unite to eventually face off against the Elder Dragons…Except of course there was still infighting, but without the potential for too soon extinction.
There is always the chance that the gods didn’t take into account the other races here too, mind, as most early accounts are anthropocentric (pretty much because that was the only playable race in GW1), but at the same time they may have just wanted even one race to unite amongst itself to defeat the Elder Dragons.
TL;DR: Both relate in their own way to Elder Dragons potentially, but more likely, may provide insight into magic of the past or magic of the present. Thaumanova may provide insight into how to bypass the Bloodstone limitations, if it proves the Elder Dragons are doing so through their absorption mechanism, and that that was what was under research there. Fall of Abaddon may provide a lesson as to why that may be a bad idea, as indicated by the the entire Forgotten Divine War thing that caused his plan to be scrapped and may further incentivize fixing the races’ domestic problems and uniting even more together.
(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)
I had a ranger in GW1, I alternate between my interupt and beastmaster build for PvE and Touch for PvP. I wouldn’t be able to make my touch ranger without Prophecies + Fractions. Are you saying GW1 should have stuck to just Prophecies and that would solve all balance issues?
No, but the release of Factions (and later Nightfall and to a lesser extent EotN) was the reason that balance went completely out the window. You see, Prophecies was the most balanced GW1 ever was. Factions came with assassins/ritualists, which were just completely broken at release, along with other skills for the original classes that were completely unbalanced. Now, ANet had no choice but to release new classes/skills with Factions, it was a new campaign. Right now ANet has the chance to make an actual attempt at balancing what we have now before adding new skills. Judging by the way GW1 went for over half a decade and how GW2 has gone the past 11 months, ANet is going to handle it poorly and drive whatever “balance” is left in this game right into the ground.
Right now ANet is trying to cater to too many people (just as they did in GW1), and the end result is going to be poor. They’re seriously contradicting themselves by finally trying to make PvP somewhat decent while saying they’re going to regularly add more skills to the game.
For the record, I’m not saying they shouldn’t add more skills. It’s inevitable, it adds variety, people want it. I’m saying they should at least get what we have now right (ok, they can’t get it right, but they should at least make more effort) before digging themselves a deeper hole. Anyone who played GW1 knows that ANet has always been god awful at balance, which is why this shouldn’t be rushed.
GW1 person here. This is by far the most reasonable post I’ve seen in the thread. Alongside maybe the MTG suggestion, but that would have to come at an in-between point when they’ve decently sorted out the current balance and metagame, I think.
Personally, I think it would make more sense to do what they did in GW1 right now as the current skillpool and amount of traits is small, which is to separate the skills and traits into PvE and PvP types. In doing so, they can then balance them accordingly without the changes seeming too over the top for one side of the community or the other. Correct me if I’m mistaken here, as I don’t think that’s currently how the skills and traits are being handled, but I haven’t toyed with PvP enough to notice. The little experience I’ve had with PvP suggests that it is not so.
There is one big difference: GW1 hat Dualprofessions which made balancing nearly impossible since there were millions if not billions of combinations. This is not possible in GW2 anymore. Aside from this, I don’t think the game is unbalanced. It’s a typical community issue. They play a certain class with certain skills and can do well, but there is one other class with a certain build and will completely destroy it. Is this unbalance? No, be cause this one may be bad against other classes/builds. So what, just enjoy the game and don’t complain in forums.
O_o I don’t understand this perspective much. If you don’t want to see complaining/critiquing/criticism, don’t go into threads where it’s easy to tell that will be occurring. Forums are for discussion which happens to include complaints, and the topics that are primarily complaints can usually be told apart from those that aren’t by the titles alone. Practice a little better judgment and distinction when going through threads and you’ll have a much better time, trust me. It’s like complaining about spoilers when you can fairly easily avoid them by more careful reading (which then allows you to skip the spoilers quite easily).
(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)
Even having been around since GW1, much of this hardly sounds appealing. To be fair though, that’s probably because I’m not:
Honestly, I enjoy the gameplay despite the story and gear, because I enjoy the world and I’d enjoy it more if they did it a little more justice than the little hamster wheels they’ve been building lately. Not knocking anyone else for enjoying them, mind you, they’re just not my thing. I’d actually be a little more interested in a good bit of content that actually tried to draw my attention without the irrelevant odds and ends attached. Give me a good story or something, on par with the semi-decent quality of the short story blurbs on the old blog or on this very site.
I’ll remember that. I’ll hardly remember getting a new skill/trait/piece of gear. That experience is basically the norm.
What am I saying though. The populous has spoken, and they outnumber me.
Haven’t noticed this problem myself (mainly zoom way out, tab target (after customizing the hot key to nearest enemy, I believe), and fight), but considering that I can imagine how annoying it’d be, I have to agree that this seems a more pertinent issue than some of the other suggestions I’ve seen. Would be interesting to see some form of response to this beyond the old one.
Anyone else have any opinions on this, or changes they’d choose beyond simply not making this at all?
Cost of teleportation= 12 silver, Cost of buying= 8 silver, Cost of Supplies= 40, Hit Points of WP= Same as Cannon, Contested= Any Enemy in a certain radius, Set Restrictions= No underwater, No ledges, No Cliff sides, Cannot be deployed while in combat or with enemies around. See? not too hard to get those general ideas out. With this i would like it a little bit more, expensive, hard to get off, but used correctly can play a good role, but my vote is still no.
Oof, don’t know that I’d fix the cost of teleport (or at all) to that high, but then, maybe people playing more have that sort of expendable currency? If anything I’d keep the fluctuating distance-ish cost current waypoints have, as those tend to get expensive themselves.
No major disagreements on currency or supply costs.
Hitpoints: uncertain, not much experience with taking out cannons.
Area Deployment Restrictions: no major disagreements, not sure if other siege equipment can be deployed while in combat, so no disagreement there.
As to enemies around, how close are we talking?
Also, see, not too hard to adjust the idea rather than just discount it off hand.
get the idea well formed, cost of teleportation, cost of buying, cost of supplies, amount of WP hitpoints, what is considered for it to be contested, and what restrictions on where it could be set, then i’ll revote, as of now, it doesn’t appeal to me.
Why? That’s the developers’ job, not mine. My job is to give them my money (done!) then to occasionally provide feedback, either in detail or in concept. I’ve chosen a blend of detail/concept, with hopes the community might help hammer out the details, according to their interests and concerns.
The basic concept’s simple, after all, while the details are for both us to discuss and figure out and the devs to, if they want, fine-tune and implement. I mean, if I was being paid for this, I’d give it more detail and sort it out, but given the circumstances, I have no obligation (nor would it be practical) for me to expend more time than I already have on this idea without any certainty of it ever being adopted.
In other words: how would you choose to design this? What would you tweak? Why? Too much trouble to write? Well, I’ve provided my ideas as well as reasons and some additions in responses, seems only fair to ask similar from anyone else responding.
(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)
A well formed group with set waypoints would decimate a map fairly quickly, if this was to be implemented.
That’s why there would be limits to the amount that could be put on the map by any World, and if it’s of a very high concern, lower the lifespan of it or make it destroyable via zerg (which practically removes its viability, in my opinion).
You must also keep in mind that these would require supply and for full effectiveness, would be wanted to be deployed in contested territory. If anything, the winning team could even be prevented from using them in their Borderlands, at all, or be limited to only one in each area, should that be a concern.
Basically, it is cheaper, faster and more advantageous to build a WP in a keep than actually building the keep’s wp.
It is very durable, and no one can contest a wp in a tower. Plus, the zerg would be forced to waste 24 silver on a 9 silver object,
k.
It’s an idea, and not set in stone. I had seriously considered disallowing them from being placed in any structure (excluding exposed supply camps), and I still think that would likely be a very good idea, were this even implemented.
I vote no on this. It’s like everyone can portal.
If the concern is an insta-zerg from basically anywhere, there could be placed costs on using them, unlike the base waypoints. I hadn’t heavily weighed this option because I suspected, perhaps optimistically, that players would quickly slap a shutdown op on discovered deployed waypoints to prevent that from happening. However, that may certainly be expecting too much from random players, so if a usage cost would be thought to discourage overuse, I see no issues with implementing one, in all honesty.
TL;DR: Temporary deployable waypoints.
Cost: 7-9 silver.
Supply cost: 30-60 (preferably 30-40 to encourage use).
Time limit (i.e. lifespan): 45-60 minutes.
Destroyable and contestable via siege equipment only (see idea below).
Per team: 3 (may vary on balance, world status, or WvW area, see ideas below).
Search disclaimer: Ran some searches, didn’t find anything like this suggested yet, strangely enough. (Search terms used: WvW waypoints, waypoints, deployable waypoints, droppable waypoints.)
Basis for the Idea: Currently, WvW is pretty entertaining, but I think everyone might agree that while the movement to and fro areas adds to the element of strategy or tactics used (mainly, if in borderlands, play avoid the zerg, guerrilla war as much as possible, not sure how it pans out in Eternal Battlegrounds), those strategies and tactics aren’t too complex. Generally, someone forms a hit squad and strikes some targets to briefly capture them, but no real hold can be established.
So my idea is this:
Short-lived Deployable Waypoint Blueprints.
Detailing currency and supply cost: The cost, I think, should be around where it’s not too cheap to spam (like any other piece of siege equipment), and not too expensive to be prohibitive to use. Somewhere in the range of, say, 7-9 silver, might be good. The supply cost then, is another issue, and I think it’d be appropriate to fit it around maybe, 30-60 supply, and I’d argue, to go alongside the issue of cost prohibiting use, to keep it in the 3o-40 range, personally.
Detailing Time Limitations: The caveat to all of this is that these may last only a very short time, 45-60 minutes, tops, I think, might be good. You may already be thinking this is a bad idea to begin with, and that even a time limit wouldn’t be enough to prevent abuse, and I’d happen to agree, but knowing the nature of zergs, I realize that if these were merely made destroyable, they’d be down within moments after construction after being located. Considering that, I think it’d be entirely appropriate to make them capable of being countered and destroyed with ballista or catapults (as the players choose), thus adding a new element of strategy to WvW and allowing bottled up worlds to have a means of coming back with intelligent play.
Detailing contestability: Additionally, these waypoints would be incapable of becoming contested, unless fired down upon with siege equipment (further forcing anti-zerg measures and some additional cooperation amongst world members). Also, if this isn’t currently how keep waypoints function, I think that’s okay, as otherwise it would be even more difficult to get a foothold in enemy Borderlands. Deployable waypoints, by their nature though, would be time-limited, capable of destruction, and exposed, meaning they need a little more to make them worth using other than placement anywhere, they need to be a tiny beachhead from which to break your way back into the game.
No longer would the zerg have the overwhelming potency it currently possesses, unless it began to camp, which only opens up new opportunities for the other world or members of the same world they’re trying to root out, to produce new waypoints. That also contributes to forcing the zerg to split apart to ensure they maintain control over their structures.
Contemplating Per Team Deployment Limits: However, that in itself creates another problem, how many could be deployed at once? Per team, I’d say limit it to three, myself. This could be adjusted according to balance decisions, and possibly even on the situation of the team using them (more permitted to the team losing the most, for example, but only up to a certain limit). Right now I’m thinking along these lines: 3 for a winning team and in the Eternal Battlegrounds since I know little to nothing of how it plays. 6 for a middling team, but only in the Borderlands. 9 for a severely struggling team in the Borderlands.
Note: this is not across all Borderlands, just the specific World Borderland, meaning 3-9 deployable waypoints for each Borderland.
Arguably 9 is far more than should be necessary for any team (as well as 6 for that matter), but given that these worlds are losing, it stands to reason they may not exactly have the best players and some may use them in the worst locations imaginable thinking it’s good.
TL;DR: Temporary deployable waypoints.
Cost: 7-9 silver.
Supply cost: 30-60 (preferably 30-40 to encourage use).
Time limit (i.e. lifespan): 45-60 minutes.
Destroyable and contestable via siege equipment only (see idea above).
Per team: 3 (may vary on balance, world status, or WvW area, see ideas above).
Apologies if this has been posted before, as stated, I ran the searches and came up with nothing. If you read any of this, thank you, hope it made sense and that you at least thought it was mildly compelling!
Sincerely,
Grydd.
If possible, it’d be absolutely awesome to right click and guest straight from the friends list.
One of the cool feature of this guesting is the “NO Friends needed” for guesting. What you suggest restricts players even worse then the NA/ EU restriction
Why think in an “or” manner? I’m merely posing an addition to the feature with that idea, and not suggesting removal of the method they currently intend to implement.
Apologies for the misunderstanding, I could have been much, much clearer there.
(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)
Great news! I’ve been not-so-patiently waiting for this announcement since the BWE’s, this will be awesome to finally have.
Is there a long-term plan to address the issue of NA and EU players being locked out from each other? To be honest I was expecting this, but in an ideal world we could guest across data centers.
Hoping this gets addressed too, with at the very least some suggestion of it being put on backburner development while other features are focused on.
Also agree with one of the posts here regarding the somewhat clunky approach to guesting by going to char select right now. If possible, it’d be absolutely awesome to right click and guest straight from the friends list.
Shortly before the last beta ended, I suggested something similar to the “lore books” but with what I find to be a somewhat more flexible solution, but only in terms of the style. Scrolls > books, but same basic concept. More or less agree there and especially with the replayable personal story. After completing a recent mission I ran into the issue of recalling the dialogue (which the wiki didn’t have up yet) and finding myself unable to, a big hit in the face after being able to for so long in the first game.
Even prior to release this was theorized (albeit I lean a little more towards hypothesized, but new info may substantiate it beyond that) and as others have noted, while there are loose parallels, they are insufficient to make any claims of gods being dragons or dragons being gods.
What is somewhat more likely is that both groups of entities tap into some of the same domains of magic and express it differently, while still appearing similar because, well, drawing from the same energy/magic well. (E.g. energy as light, magic as necromancy, energy as sound, magic as fiery explosions, etc.)
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