Showing Posts For Grimthagen.6019:
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Just as a note to those that are saying “it’s not that hard to detect a player that moves too far / too fast”. It really isn’t that hard, but remember that every process that runs takes up a certain amount of server resources.
It’s entirely probable that implementing a process that monitors every character’s every movement for being “within normal” would take up enough resources to bring the servers to a crawl / crash in high demand situations (like say a multiplayer fight with a lot of calls and checks – exactly the situation that WvWvW is supposed to promote).
This next bit is conjecture on my part – but based on what I’ve seen in other MMOs, the current trend towards “action-oriented gameplay” has created a lot of vulnerabilities which are being exploited quite frequently across many or most modern MMOs.
Not to say that hacking and exploiting hasn’t always been a problem, but I think the drive to make modern MMOs more responsive and reflex-based has made it so that developers are forced to offload some of the responsibility to the client and trust the responses to a certain degree (violating Koster’s Law). As such, there is only so much that the GM team can do to proactively limit hacking – and the exploiters are always morphing and changing such that a “known hacks” list is pretty much out of date as soon as it’s put together.
Just shuffle EU/NA servers in the same tier. Problem solved.
If you mean match the EU vs NA servers, I’m pretty sure that’s impossible. The server clusters are physically separate and there’s no passage of information between them (e.g. you can’t guest to EU servers from NA)
FWIW:
1) Keep/revert to the Glicko ranking system as it was before the random roll was added. As far as I’m concerned, Glicko did exactly what it was supposed to – it matched the servers that were most similar in their ability to accumulate points. Without true dynamic balancing based on minute-to-minute population, that’s the best balance that can be hoped for.
2) The previous system tended too strongly towards ossification as the tiers separated from one another, and it was too difficult in many cases to move between tiers. However, the pure one-up, one-down system many propose would be even worse – so a compromise.
If a server places first in their tier three weeks straight, on the 4th reset that server is immediately placed in the bottom of the next highest tier. Their rank remains the same so that they have the possibility of scoring the rank they need to remain in that tier. This provides mobility between tiers and should keep the ranks relatively close. It also gives servers the opportunity to earn their place, and if it’s a blowout they know it was their rank that got them there and not a random chance number.
Similarily, to limit the pain of blowout matches, if a given server wins their matchup by X amount (say more than 50% of the available points for the week for instance), they are immediately promoted to the next highest rank position at the next reset. I see no reason the above point and this can’t combine, jumping a dominant server up two ranks if the timing is right.
3) Provide unique incentive bonuses to each team in the match. I.E. +100% WXP to the third place team, +50% to the second place, and +Magic Find / +Gold Find for the top team in each tier.
4) Provide big bonuses to WXP for the two overall lowest rank servers in NA and EU until their matchups become more competitive. I’d also recommend instituting free transfers to these same servers for the same period.
What not to do (IMO):
- avoid trying to balance population by using NPC strength. It doesn’t seem to work well when I’ve seen it tried in other games, and the players fighting against overpowered NPCs resent it more.
- avoid straight stat buffs to balance population. Too much metagaming.
The main problem with the ranking system as it exists is that the player base regards it as a scoreboard (X rank server beats Y and Z rank server) rather than the design intent of a rough population balance. I’d suggest hiding the raw rank stat but you need something else in its place because WvW is a competitive pursuit.
Similarly, long-time WvW players are stretching for an overall goal. The point of a war is usually to win the thing. Eventually, all competitions have to end in some kind of definitive state (otherwise there’d be no Super Bowl / Stanley Cup / etc, teams would just play each other round and round forever). I would suggest that figuring this point out should be high on the list of things-to-do.
Finally, start putting content into WvW – very soon.
Not just balance changes, mechanic changes, ranking system changes – actual new stuff to do / experience. New maps would be high on this list.
I’d suggest an underground tunnels-and-chambers-type map (easiest to design thus fastest to implement) with capture and hold points which have an effect on one or more of the existing WvW maps (off the top of my head – dragon themed capture points that transforms players and NPCs on a designated borderland into dragon minions? Reskinning that borderland to match? Additional bonuses / penalties from environmental effects on transformed borderlands?)
(edited by Grimthagen.6019)
Have you ever considered offering an incentive program for players hunting bugs and filing complete and useful bug reports?
Just off the top of my head, if your Dev Team finds that a player bug report provided them with particularly useful or insightful information that led to an important bug fix, that player could be contacted and offered a discontinued item skin or collectable of their choice as a reward. There are certainly enough rare skins and items from Mad King, Wintersday, etc. that some players might either want or want to sell.
Sort of like a Crimestoppers pay-for-information setup. Call it BugStompers.
Oh – and for those calling for a public test server, it’s probably a pointless waste of resources. Most other public test servers I’ve seen are very sparsely populated and are really only used immediately prior to a content patch by players either looking to demo the new content (rarely filing any bug reports) or by players looking to find exploits in new content (obviously never filing bug reports). There are some that will diligently look for bugs, but it’s pretty much not worth the effort.
EVE has had decent luck with implementing an official volunteer bughunter program on their public test server – but the same effect could probably be achieved here using something like the incentive program mentioned above.
One up and one down solves some problems but creates a bunch more. Including that it invalidates ratings entirely. It no longer takes into account quality of victory but simply uses the fact of victory to move a server out of the matchup they were previously in. The system we are using now creates varied matchups, which will allow us to get more accurate ratings. As those become more accurate we can dial down on the amount of variance we are introducing to have matchups that are varied, but less prone to large rating gaps between the servers. But, again, this is entirely based on server rating, which is the thing we have actually been calculating this entire time. Until that number is a more accurate reflection of server quality, we are going to keep mixing the matchups up.
Wouldn’t a reasonable solution be to marry the idea of Glicko ratings (to establish and maintain relatively balanced match-ups) with an earned one-up / one-down system (to allow movement between tiers and widen the pool of matches)?
Theoretical example:
Rating system as it was before (i.e. before the random rolls) but before the ranks are sorted at reset the system tracks two more variables: 1) cumulative number of #1-in-tier placements, and 2) % of points captured in the last match.
Servers then get rank sorted based on ratings as they used to on reset, but the system does two more logic checks before setting the matches:
1) If a server has placed 1st in their tier for 3 weeks running, they are automatically promoted one rank (i.e. to the bottom of the next highest tier). This results in movement between tiers being easier than in the old system, and because the server’s rating stays the same, as long as they are able to hang in with the next higher tier, they have the opportunity to stay there. If a server has been able to win three straight it would seem to be fair to allow them a shot at competing at a higher tier.
2) If a server captures more than (let’s say) 50% of the available points in a match, that server is automatically promoted one rank. This prevents blow-out matches from lasting longer than a week and gives a strong server the chance to get into a match up closer to their true coverage.
(I see no reason these two couldn’t combine – so if a server wins three weeks straight and then blows out their final match, they could immediately be jumped to Blue realm on the next highest tier)
I think the key here would be to provide the possibility for variable match-ups, but while removing the “we got random roll f’d this week” that tends to bring down morale. In this model described above, if a server gets trounced it would be because they were good enough to earn a spot in that tier rather than getting trounced because a dice roll went bad – I think that concept would sit better with more players than the current one will.
I would like to echo a couple of the posters above in saying that this is an urgent problem. If the matchups continue like this for a few more rounds, there is a really strong possibility of permanent damage to WvW. It’s happened in other games, GW2 isn’t special in this regard. IMO, quick, decisive action is required here to stem the tide. Good luck Devon.
zergs: wxp needs to be divided among those taking the objective, not just the same static # no matter how many people are involved. same with killing a player. (e.g. a towe could be worth 3000wxp. if 10 people take the tower, they all get 300wxp. if 20 people take it, they each get 150wxp, etc.)
I’ve seen this idea crop up from time to time. Please let it die.
Any system which promotes exclusion will promote nothing good in WvW. This kind of thing will result in groups from the same server sniping at each other because they were “leeching their WXP”. Map chat will have groups claiming objectives as “their take” and people will lose their marbles when some random militia group comes along thinking they’re helping.
It’s the same danger with trying to design systems that reward small group play. Do it wrong and all you end up with are small tight groups, closed off to the server, running silent because they’re on TS or similar. Casual players can’t break in and leave WvW and the whole thing spirals down.
WvW must be inclusive by design to succeed. You should always, always be happy to see another few people show up because it makes your life better / easier.
If I didn’t know better I’d say “there’s lore to all this?”
Seriously, for a game that was supposed to do things differently the feel is pretty similar to all those ‘other’ games.
I logged in and saw something in a quest log saying to go to southsun. I ran around southsun and beat up various people and did various mundane tasks (yep – I’m the hero that helped defeat Zhaitan, let me go and collect some plant samples for you) but really saw no rhyme or reason to it all other than everything is mad at everything.
I logged in a few days later and saw a new thing in the quest log saying something about someone named Canach that I’d not previously heard anything of. I followed the big yellow star (may as well have been an exclamation point – why not) and walked through a cave to be immediately attacked without provocation (or even dialogue) by some guy who seems to like mines but can’t invest in a decent encryption system. I apparently was catching him for the ineffectual lionguard but his master plan was already too far gone to be stopped (mu-ha-ha-ha).
This feels awfully similar to any other quest based MMO, except those (the better ones anyway) manage to use the structure to relay more information that frames the actions and occasionally manages to hide tired mechanics behind decent storylines.
Apparently Canach’s master plan involved a big bag of Hit points but to be honest – I just can’t bring myself to care enough to see it through.
Spend your Gems on what you want to. If you don’t like RNG, that’s ok. Buy some character fashions that are available directly from the shop. Win/Win situation.
IMO – pointless with the current clunky and unrewarding system of transmutation stones.
Add a PvE styles locker and let us collect the skins and we are talking something – until then it’s totally pointless (again IMO).
Of all the rushes, this one needs another look or two. One for sure for bugs, one more for “was it really supposed to be that hard?”.
Bugs:
- Immediately after the start while running towards the cave with the reef drakes. Two spots where the world glitches out and you can’t see anything. Deadly if the hatchlings spawn just then.
- Just after going through the crab hole from the burrowing wurm area, there is a little depression in the ground ahead and to the right of the spawn-in point (just prior to exiting the cave area). It’s just big enough for the crab to fit in and get stuck. As there is no jump it means you’re stuck and have to revert and run back to the start.
“Do we really hate our players this much?”
- Reef drake broodmother event can spawn at least twice during the course of the rush. That’s a little extreme given it sits right on one of the flags. I know that the idea is that the guild will help clear things, but the drakes have all those pulls and area attacks that make that spot deadly.
- There’s one spot just at the entrance to the cave where there are overlapping trap circles, a territorial crab and some karka eggs all at once. Ouch. Could some of that be shifted around maybe?
- I find it odd that much easier rushes have skills with healing attached to them, where this one (which can be deadly to an actual character running the same route) has a fairly useless dash instead (it roots before dashing if I’m not mistaken). Could the block at least throw a regen or something?
My suggestion:
Set it up such that there are two alternating instances of the Wv3 maps for every server pair – 12 hour windows at the end of which the game state is saved and the game state for the previous window (i.e. the one saved twelve hours prior) is reloaded.
For instance: Based on peak / off-peak population stats it’s decided that the game states switch at 12am and 12pm Pacific time. At 12am on Day 2 the state of the keeps and orbs etc. are saved. Everyone is kicked out of Wv3 for 10-15 minutes as the server reloads the game state that was saved at 12pm on Day 1, everyone reenters and plays until noon Pacific on Day 2. At noon the state saves again, the maps are reloaded from the Day 2 midnight save and everyone continues play.
Wv3 is inherrently unbalanced, that’s fine – but a solution like this would be more likely to preserve the efforts of the server populations without trivializing those efforts, and allows both peak and off-peak populations to play the game as it was designed.
The colors seem to be random, from what I’ve seen. You have a 33% chance of being green again.
(For you sticklers, the remaining 1% chance of the colors will be your battlegroup being broken by some glitch and nobody being able to fight)
No, green is first place in that matchup, blue second, and red third. I am of the opinion that red is marginally better for EB, and blue/green are about the same. It’s fine the way it is, though I wouldn’t mind if it were random.
Wait. Explain this for me then.
Tarnished Coast lost two matches ago. When the map reset, TC was green.
Coast won the last match (as green) by a wide margin. When the map reset, TC was blue.
Are you referring to the ELO (or whatever) rankings relative to colour? Because it doesn’t look to me like individual match placing has a bearing on colour.
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