Guild Wars 2

Regrets of Sini.6083:

I am long-time PvPer. My resume includes multiple 2K+ WoW Arena teams, SB, DF and dueling record in UO. I almost exclusively WvW in GW2.

I do not participate in tPvP and do not plan to. I am not alone, in my medium-sized ultra-competitive WvW guild there are no organized tPvP teams and no interest to start one.

Here are my reasons:

1. I can’t take my character into tPvP
2. There are no tPvP rewards that would help me advance my character (that I know of)
3. Whole rush control points defended by ‘bunker’ tPvP does not appeal to me.

If Anet were to implement 5v5 elimination-style ranked tPvP that awarded PvP tokens I would likely participate.

From where I stand tPvP problem is question of appeal. If you can’t sell your tPvP to PvPers then you ether selling wrong thing or not delivering message in a way it can be understood.

Just my 2c.

While I don’t want to derail things, He brinsg up an important point which is that sPVP is an entirely separate entity from the rest of the game.

This is relevant because if people from PVE and WvW don’t enjoy it and it only makes up a very small percentage of the player base, then it will be put on the backburner for development which seems to already be the case.

Seether.7285:

I would just like to point out that isn’t that there are only “10 teams taking it seriously” it is that the skill gaps are pretty large between teams that are winning the qps and teams that faceroll free tournies but lose in the first round of paids nearly every time. People don’t enjoy getting stomped and they enjoy it even less when they have to spend a currency and extra time just to end up against far superior opposition in paids.

This goes back to what many people have stated, putting a money sink in the only competitive tournament system is going to cannibalize the community rather than expand it.

I agree entirely.

Payneful.7934:

I completely agree with everything in the video.

Awesome, the community needs dedicated players like yourself to want to stick around and have good competition, but this isn’t happening.

Nord.5360:

Agree with the video in its entirety. Like someone else mentioned above, I really do like the idea of ‘competitive matches’ rather than ‘competitive tournaments’. Sitting around waiting for 8 teams just to play one tournament is absolutely destroying the queue times for paid tournaments.

Yeah thats an incredibly good suggestion. The barriers to experience competitive play MUST be removed for the community to remain sustainable.

Gugus.1462:

It’s sad, but you are right. I didn’t get to disagree even one time.
After playing GW2 PvP I probably couldn’t go back to WoW PvP, just like drinking good beer makes you never want to go back to drinking Bud light (even though you’ve once enjoyed it)… so please ArenaNet, don’t ruin this for me.

I am right there with you man. I think the combat innovations like no trinity, no auto targeting on skills, dodging and others are a massive step up for the genre. Its just such a shame that the actual competitive system is such a step backwards.

Project Shrine Maiden.9623:

i started watching just because i was curious but man you really hit every point on the head. by the end i found that i could completely agree with the entire video. currently spvp is in a sad state of affairs – i really hope it doesn’t get pushed to the back burner and the focus of the game shifted to pve only

Yeah PVE taking over everything is a very real danger to the competitive community. If nothing else, I hope these threads will spur Anet to at least give forecast as to how they see sPVP fitting in with the rest of the game.

shiNn.2571:

this video didnt refelct the current meta.
In Paid Toruanment you dont play anymore bunkerguard mid and mesmer portal deff all the time.U should play more paid and less free/random pvp to get a better overview if u want to do those vids.

I made that video, and sorry but these 2 builds are still on nearly every team in some fashion, and are certainly on the most hardcore teams that win all the time. Even if you don’t agree with that, the main point is that there a small number of viable builds / comps overall which has led to stagnant play.

Yep its a system where the rich get richer and poor get poorer, which ultimately destroys a competitive community.

NA side

~70 players with 5 or more points = 14 teams
~20 players with 20 or more points = 4 teams

GW1 6-7 years ago the top 100 teams were considered higher tier competition = 800 players.

And even then as the game evolved the top 300 was pretty competitive = 2400 players

I can’t see how anyone would see this game as anything close to competitive.

As several threads like the excellent one made by Pray have pointed out, it has become very apparent that there has been a major drop-off in the interest in s/tPvP.

Paid tournaments are seeing long queue times even during peak hours, and there seems to be a dwindling number of teams that are taking the game seriously anymore.

There are several reasons for this:

- Stagnant, uninteresting play (bunker guardian, tp mesmer in every comp, few viable builds overall)
- Limited options for solo players
- New or pickup teams have no consistent way to play against other evenly skilled opponents
- The ticket system is placing a barrier in front of people who may actually want to try to find consistent arranged opponents
- tPvP is missing many basic features that even GW1 released with 7 years ago

I elaborate on these points in the following video.
http://youtu.be/jvXDv70-6Gg

The actual combat mechanics and gameplay are very good, but this system currently in place is not fostering a healthy growing competitive community.

It is my hope that posts and videos like this will spur Anet to take immediate action to save the competitive side of their game as we are dangerously close to losing the critical mass of players that is necessary to sustain competitive sPvP.

QPs Post:

Based on the qualifier point post made yesterday there are ~70 players with 5 points or more which equals 14 teams that have had any sort of consistency if the list is accurate.

That isn’t enough to run 2 fully competitive tournaments at once. If you look at the number of people who have more than 20 points and probably win / farm newer teams consistently, it looks like around 4 teams which can even run 1.

These are Anets own numbers, and should in my view be a red flag for people who would like to see a healthy scene.

I would tend to agree, the number of points you have is not entirely an accurate display of rank because with no elo or mmr there is no control over the skill level of opponents.

If you grind long enough you will eventually be able to pick up a lot of points by facing pug or inexperienced teams. Although that becomes harder to do as players leave in droves and only a few teams are left.

In other words people who have points, but haven’t played in a while won’t show up and probably never will if they have left the game.

Excellent post Pray, you outline the problem perfectly.

I would also add that the ticket system is another barrier for new people and teams.

Newer people who want to not play randoms all day and go into paid are essentially being asked to pay money or time for the privilege of being stomped by hardcore teams which means they will just get frustrated and leave.

The playerbase is being hollowed out from the inside and we are getting into a situation where only a few die hard teams are left.

^ Exactly.

A ladder means nothing if nobody is playing. SWTOR is a prime example – rated pvp was added like 5 months after launch but by that time competitive pvp was on life support.

These days most games only have a month or 2 to hook people in, otherwise they will all leave for the next big thing. I am very worried that GW2 has already passed this point.

Excellent post Daays, my thoughts exactly.

There is pretty much zero incentive for people to try to start a new team because they will just be steamrolled by the 5 or so teams that have put in hundreds of hours which means they lose all their tickets, or motivation to play because they can’t improve without paying a steep price.

Honestly, what newer tpvp player is going to spend money on gems just to get farmed by the power-gamers? That’s like asking low elo players in LOL to pay with time / money for the privilege of losing to higher rated players.

Then we are just back to the mess that is free tournaments where its premades vs randoms which is pointless and has little lasting value.

If private servers come out there is a small chance competitive GW2 could grow, but for now the system is just hollowing itself out from the inside. Any competitive system that isn’t constantly bringing in new people will slowly die out —> case in point = GW1.

At least GW1 was competitive for several years. TPvP is showing very concerning signs of decline after a few weeks.

We won’t know if it can be an e-sport or not until the correct tools in place.

The thing about LoL is that it has like 30 million players who all signed up for 5v5 PvP.

I would say its a pretty small percentage of people who bought GW2 for sPvP. It would be interesting to know how many players are actually above rank 30. I would suspect its like 1% of the population.

Put together some commentary videos of the borderline OP mesmer phantasm build.

Guild Wars 2 PvP Commentary Battle 2 – Mesmer Phantasm Duelist Build

http://youtu.be/58gqI1TyM9E

Guild Wars 2 PvP Commentary Battle 1 – Mesmer Phantasm Duelist Build
http://youtu.be/tl8H5ygCPuI

Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgAQNAscWlwzqpHVzoGZdJh5D9+MjoDd0CIVQ1lPgbA;TgAA0CvoQygkAJLSOkkIB

Build commentary for the borderline OP mesmer phantasm build

Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgAQNAscWlwzqpHVzoGZdJh5D9+MjoDd0CIVQ1lPgbA;TgAA0CvoQygkAJLSOkkIB