Guild Wars 2

I’m starting to wonder if the Dream really has all that much to do with how the Pale Tree is protecting her Sylvari. In “Dragon’s Reach Part 1: Rallying Call” the Pale Tree says the following:

• Well, my child, the one thing you must never forget is that I stand between you and the greatest darkness you’ll ever know. A vast darkness intent on consuming all that we hold dear.

What’s interesting is that she says “I”. So the Dream may just be the means by which she is protecting her sylvari. Perhaps there are other methods used by other possible trees?

• There are those who reject my protection. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. I shield you as best I can and will for as long as I can.

Again she says that she will shield them – not that the Dream does.

Then finally,

• Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth’s corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth’s corruption can change you.

Seems like she’s stating out right that those that don’t have or reject her protection will be corrupted. She also doesn’t mention the Nightmare – so what she’s talking about doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the Dream or Nightmare.

If what’s preventing sylvari from falling under Mordremoth’s corrupting influence has more to do with the individual tree a sylvari comes from than the Dream then Malyck and his people could go either way. Especially if, as has been suggested above, all of the seeds in the cave were subject to the same “cleansing”. There may be armies of uncorrupted sylvari out there from trees Mordremoth hasn’t been able to find and attack yet. Perhaps that’s what Malyck was the “harbinger” of?

When Wynne makes here revelation to Caithe she simply says “Dragon” – she doesn’t say which Dragon and Mordremoth wasn’t awake at that point (correct me if I’m wrong). So it’s possible that Trahearne did know and think that by taking out Zhaitan he’d fixed the issue. We know which dragon Wynne was talking about but at what point did they know exactly which dragon?

I hope I’m not violating any rules here but I couldn’t resist.

I don’t think that Caithe is turned into victim or villain with the revelation in “Point of No Return”. Huge stacks of literature, both good and bad, not to mention movies, are devoted to what sentient creatures will do for “love”. I think that fairly well precludes Caithe making a spur-of-the-moment decision to stop Faolain who, at that point, hadn’t really done anything except perhaps be a little over zealous in taking out enemies of the Sylvari, namely the Inquest, and showing some interest in what Cadeyrn is saying. We know a lot more about what’s coming than Caithe does at that moment.

Caithe’s actions towards Wynne also make sense in that she does know the tenacity of Faolain and she probably also knows what Faolain will do with the knowledge even though she hasn’t gotten to the point of action for herself with regard to Faolain – hope springs eternal. She’s also just received an incredible piece of information and is probably monumentally horrified and confused. Asking a couple of questions at that moment might have been better but, there you are. At the same time Wynne, obviously holding no illusions about Faolain, knows what she’s in for and is begging Caithe to do it both to keep the knowledge from Faolain and spare herself from Faolin’s tender mercies. At the same time I do have to say that I kind of object to the short hand the writers used here that counts on the PC knowing the history of Faolain so that they automatically assume Faolain is going to mercilessly torture Wynne for the information.

For me it was a great moment and doesn’t change the character of Caithe at all as she’s been painted from the beginning as a “get things done” kind of girl who’s got some pain in her past. With regard to the egg it doesn’t seem right to condemn her since we don’t know what she’s doing yet – her only crime being depriving the PC of returning triumphantly with the egg and maybe disappointing the Pale Tree.

Also, it’s been said that Faolain is being painted with a broad stroke as evil which is true in a lot of ways (e.g. destroying the dream to convert the Pale Tree) but I have to say that I see a glimmer of something else. Faolain’s always been about setting her people free from a boxed philosophy in favor of a wild world of freedom and choice – surely a good thing. What she’s done though is make a “religion” of it which has ironically switched one boxed philosophy for another as she tries to “persuade” sylvari to her point of view which is obviously the “correct” one. She’s definitely lost her way. I’m wondering if she’ll turn around with the new revelation – the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Assuming the Nightmare is not a Mordremoth endoctrination mechanism.

Good stuff!

Squee.7829:

Why he took the seed doesn’t have to have some deep or meaningful story behind it. He has a little girl. Little girls like flowers. He figured “rare exotic plant seed. This will probably be something cool to show her!” And took it. Then when he found her dead, planting her would-be gift on her grave seems like exactly the kind of sentimental action a guy in his position would take. I mean, people put flowers on graves all the time, even if they are normally fully grown and well documented. Not an unknown seed.

I can see what you’re saying but that would mean that the Pale Tree is basically an accident – a man stumbles into a cave, finds an interesting seed, then as a grieving father plants it over his family’s graves.

It still seems like Ronan might have known something more. In the player story section involving Malyck Amaranda tells Trahearne (paraphrasing here) that Ronan knew something he didn’t reveal but it could still be found in the dream.

It’s interesting – I hope more about this is revealed.

The thing I don’t understand about Ronan is why he took the seed in the first place. I mean, he goes into a cave full of seeds that are apparently guarded, takes one as a trophy of war to show his daughter and then plants it over her grave? Was he thinking – “Gee, let’s see what grows from this huge seed I took from a cave guarded by terrible plant creatures?”

It seems like if you plant a seed on the graves of your loved ones it must have some special (good) meaning aside from a “spoil of war”. It seems like he may have known something about the seeds – or should have in my opinion in order for his actions to make sense. Typically trees are planted over graves so it seems like he knew it would be a tree at the very least.

Great ideas Koviko! And I really hope we get to see Malyck and his people.

With regard to Malyck being dreamless because of a proximity reset the storyline does more than imply that he had just been born. In the player story chapter “Source of the Issue” they find his pod beside the river and he says: “There it is. The pod in which I awakened. That’s where my life began.”

To further add to the mystery is what Amaranda says about Malyck in “A Different Dream”: “A distant shore—and darkness. A root, a cave…you. You are the seed. What Ronan knew and never told still lingers in the Dream.”

Malyck is a harbinger and a seed – neither of which is particularly evil sounding on their own. Then, what is it that Ronan knew but didn’t tell? Caithe and Traeherne are described as disturbed by Amaranda’s revelation (like they knew something) about Malyck but doesn’t say why.

It seems like Malyck is a much bigger part of the story than we’ve seen so far.

Malyck has always been an interesting point in the story. I have some additional questions regarding him – can anyone shed some light?

1. The Nightmare Court already knows about him under the term “Harbinger”. Where did they get that knowledge and what is he supposed to be the “Harbinger” of for them? A harbinger is suppose to announce the coming of someone/something. Is that someone/something Mordremoth or someone else? Is Malyck not telling everything he knows?

2. The Knight of Embers says that finding the Harbinger is her “Dark Hunt” in “An Unknown Soul”. Then in “Source of the Issue” she says that “I am the Knight of Embers. I was born dreaming of you, and it has been my life’s ambition to draw you into nightmare.” and “Because you are the key to our freedom from Ventari’s false laws. Your coming marks the turn of the tide between Dream and nightmare.”

When the Knight of Embers indicates that she was born dreaming of him then presumably she got that information from the “Dream” as opposed to the “Nightmare” or has it been indicated that some Sylvari interact with the “Nightmare” before awaking?

If the Knight of Embers received a “Dark Hunt” calling to find the Harbinger then where did that calling come from? If Wyld Hunts come from the “Dream” then do Dark Hunts come from Nightmare?

If the Knight of Embers feels like her purpose is to turn Malyck to the Nightmare and if her calling came from the Nightmare and if the Nightmare comes from Mordremoth then we can’t assume that Malyck’s tree is automatically of Mordremoth – or can we?

3. Finally, either Malyck didn’t dream before awaking or doesn’t remember it. If he didn’t dream then the dream/nightmare can’t really be an indoctrination tool of Mordremoth can it? One idea for him not knowing of or remembering his dream is that his “pod” fell and developed away from his tree. It doesn’t really seem plausible for an offspring to develop that much (to not know the dream) away from its parent unless you fall back on magic.

If, if, if…

It’s making my head hurt.

An interesting discussion from a couple of years ago about how this could be coming:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/sylvari/SPOILERS-The-Sylvari-are-not-minions/first

What’s interesting is that while the OP is arguing against this they end up kind of supporting it.