Guild Wars 2

My original intention was to revert the stun duration of PW, nothing else.
I think every profession should be good in any part of the game, so you can play the way you want (just like anet advertised…. long ago)
But i agree with you, that’s not part of the discussion here.

Infusion of shadows should have a ~5 seconds internal cooldown.
Permastealth fixed.

These two are different traitlines for different purposes. A D/D or D/P thief will be left with barely any condition removal while still not using acrobatics. This change doesn’t make any sence to me.

Personally i’d like to hace more condition removal on utility skills. Acrobatic has pain response and fleet of foot. Could be improved, but these are enogugh imo.

E.g. let signet of agility refill only 50% endurance (so less qq from the spvp players, crying over “perma evade thief”) but instead remove 2-3 conditions.

FLiP.7680:

Interceptor.2653:

Interceptor.2653:

FLiP.7680:

Not all skills are supposed to be good in PvP.

Citation needed.

And as expected, none was given. Don’t waste everyone’s time with baseless assertions, please.

I don’t need to quote anything, that’s what i think. The game it’s not exclusive PvP or PvE, and it can have strong and weak points for both game modes. None class should be perfect on every scenarios. That’s why warrs must be nerfed. :P

Why don’t you think that every class should be good at everything?
So let’s make Warriors good at PvE only, Mesmers good at PvP only, Thiefs good at WvW only… yeah, makes sence. So everybody runs the same class in every game mode. Makes it a better game at all

You don’t get it, right?
Pistol whip was never affected by sigil of paralysation or mesmer runes. It had a 1 sec stun. The enemy was stunned during the first 2 sword swings.
Now it has a 0,5 sec stun. The enemy istn’t stunned for a single swing. PW roots you, so basically you can’t hit anything with it.

Lol. I’ll say this to any class, on any traits/weapons/utilities wich are lackluster.
They don’t have to be improved, because there are other options.
Great. Why did i never notice that there are other options? Thanks for enlightening me.

What changes i would like?
I would like PW to be like it was until yesterday. It was perfectly fine.

People like you are the reason why everyone hates on thiefs in WvW.
Everyone hates the cheesy D/P permastealth build, yet nobody notices that most thiefs feel forced to use it, because there are not many viable choices.

But well, let’s make 1 viable weaponset for PvE, one for tpvp and one for WvW. Everyone will run the same build but everything is fine because there are other options

So why do you think that a skill, wich is bad in PvP doesn’t need to be improved?
You know, not everyone likes to play just PvE.

FLiP.7680:

I run CoE (almost) everyday and PW is fine. Not all skills are supposed to be good in PvP.

In PvE everything works.
The “endgame” is PvP. Of course it shouls be balanced around it.
And you say that PW is fine, just because it works in the easymode dungeon you do every day? Well….

@dDuff: yeah, that’s the point i was trying to make. I play S/P since the buff to it a few months ago. Was my favourite set, now it’s rendered almost useless…

Tetsuyja.7805:

i have not to proof it – only said whats the thought behind it and why pistol whip is the 100blades for the thief who cannot use it effective because everything what binds a thief on a position kills a thief.
anet can remove the stun but the “immobilise” has to disappear.

Then i think i unterstood you wrong. You said that it’s a great attack, so i thought that you believe it to be fine as it is right now.
Just as you said, its the mini version of hundred blades. unfortunately the thief doesn’t have the tools to lock the enemy down, besides of the venom (45 sec recharge ftw.)

Is that after the patch yesterday?

Show me some footage of you successfully using S/P. Then i’ll believe you

Yeah, just tested it ingame.
I didn’t play yesterday, so i didn’t notice it. I agree that this change made pistol whip nearly useless.
Larcenous strike was also nerfed, and i’m already waiting for the patch that removes the evade frame on flanking strike.

What exaclty was changed to pistol whip?
If you’re refering to sigil of paralysation, it never had any effect on pistol whip.

No, not really. My point was that other weaponsets would benefit from a venom change too.
Instead of pointlessly changing black powder, spider venom could be made more useful.
P/D main, D/D offset.

So… who is talking about a D/P condition build?

Then it will have a good place preparing a spike from an ally i think. (Eviscerate/backstab…)

If someone stays in stealth the whole 3 seconds, he’ll probably not be revealed
But yes, it’s posible with the right timing.
I think that 5 seconds should be enogh, since the purpose is to directly stop stealth stacking through combos.

Something i want to add: this should not affect PvE.

Crovax.7854:

While i do agree that thieves have several possible ways of applying poison they are all on a long cooldown. As you said poisons are extremely underpowered and even with 10/x/x/x/30 (maybe my knowledge is dated in that regard but i don’t know any build that works with this point distribution – mostly 0/0/30/20/20 or 20/0/30/20/0)

Also the current cond removal in the game is quite high; while 50% uptime sounds fine on paper it will just be cleansed after a few seconds and has a quit long cooldown (even with 30 trickery -> 40 points wasted for an easily countered gimmick)
My proposed changes could make poison an easy to apply condition, that, despite
frequent cleanses, can do what it’s supposed to without being too strong because it stacks in duration, not intensity.

You’re right concerning few different ways of reapplying poison, thats why i think that a change to venoms would improve condition builds in a better way, since it’s a utility skill and usable for every other set, e.g. D/D.

I tried a 10/x/x/x/30 build for a while. Relies less on stealth, has high condition damage, low steal cooldown, decent healing (and a little damage) through mug, as well as the poison on steal and 10% condition duration.
I added 20 in acrobatics for dodging/mobility and condition removal through pain response.
I don’t like to rely on stealth completely. I’m just testing this, and while probably being inferior to 30 in shadow arts i think it has potential, mainly with D/D offhand.

Edit: of course you can add 30 in shadow arts to the build, but like i said, im trying to find alternatives to stealth.

Ryan.8367:

No, but getting a free CND off on ranger pets yields all the rewards of 30 in SA. It’s your case it’s just flipped around. There’s a reason why CND has a high initiative cost, it yields a big reward – it’s supposed to be a risk in terms of getting off as you need to usually get it off on a target that can dodge it (it does have an obvious animation for a reason) , in the case for ranger pets, there isn’t one. It’s guaranteed. That’s all.

Good point there, unfortunately “Sic’em!” will crush the D/P set more than the D/D set.

Seems a good idea to me. The most important function of the trait isn’t changed, but it prevents endless stealth stacking ind WvW.

Though i’d make the cooldown 5 seconds, just because i like the number

crouze.3078:

i dont like it. it would not have enough impact and takes one of the best defensive abilities the thief has away.

if you want p/p to become a more viable condition set, then start with reworking unload.

something like reducing the damage and make each hit apply a different condition.
1st hit: immobilize 0.5 seconds
2nd hit: vulnerability 3 seconds
3rd hit: chilled 2 seconds
4th hit: bleed 3 seconds
5th hit: poison 3 seconds
6th hit: torment 3 seconds
7th hit: burning 2 seconds
8th hit: confusion 2 seconds

And then give us a rifle to deal single target physical damage.

I really like that kind of change to unload. I’d propose increasing the condition duration of the conditions with each shot.
Something like…
1st shot: cripple for 1 second
2nd shot: 1 stack bleeding for 2 seconds
3rd shot: poison for 1 second
4th shot: burning for 1 second
5th shot: cripple for 3 seconds
6th shot: 3 stacks bleeding for 3 seconds
7th shot: poison for 3 seconds
8th shot: burning for 2 seconds

Of course this is not meant to be balanced, it’s just to show the idea behind it.
Unload would be the condition/utility “burst” of P/P with high initiative cost. The first 4 shots are weak and the last 4 shots should be dodged. (→ involves couterplay, since everyone is crying for a counter for everything in the game)
Has nobody already suggested this? I read the forums a lot and have never seen this.

Will the 10 stacks vulnerability be replaced by the immobilize or will they stay?

I still see no reason to change it.
As i said, it is fine as it is, besides from stealth stacking in WvW.

The skill is not too strong and not too weak. It’s a defensive skill meant as a little counter to melee classes.

For condition builds, i see enough poison on thiefs. With 30 in trickery (+300 condidmg btw.) steal is on a ~21sec cooldown. 10 points in deadly arts for mug also includes a 11 second poison with steal. Thats already 50% uptime.
Spider venom adds a very, very long poison. Venoms are not so good right now, so i think it would make more sence to change/buff venoms to gain more acces to poison and conditions in general.
And as you already said, shortbow offers another poison field, wich would be:
1. cheaper than your black powder proposal
2. by far longer poison duration
3. 900 range aoe
4. larger poison field

To me its quite pointless to change it into another poison field, although i really like the idea of D/P using weakness to mitigate damage and prevent the enemy from dodging.

The S/P set would also be much weaker than it is now. Many people already think the set is weaker than the other ones (personally i think it’s fine). The blind field is very useful for stomping, since S/P doesn’t have access to stealth i think this is a very good alternative for saver stomping.

Why do you even want to change it?
Asides from stealth stacking in WvW black powder is perfectly fine.

When roaming in WvW, i’ll take “Sic’em!” every time on my ranger.
Thief casts black powder, use “Sic’em!” during heartseeker. Bam. 9 initiative wasted.

9 initiative out of 12.
I’ll have a nice time killing D/P thiefs on my power ranger

I think some kind of stealth “counter” is ok in WvW , but this is just terrible design. Used in the right moment, it’s like an “I win”-button, forcing the thief to run away immediately.

Don’t get me wrong, i never played D/P or any stealth heavy build in general (besides from learning how it works etc.), because i think stealth istn’s a fun mechanic to fight with or against, but that’s just my personal opinion.

Sure, it won’t be the end of the world, since “Sic’em!” will not be used too often, but the design is still terrible.

As someone mentioned before, the skill should just make the invisible thief visible for the ranger (or any other players), but it should not apply the revealed debuff.
The duration could then also be increased. 8 seconds maybe? A stealthed thief wich is visible will still be extremely vulnerable and he will not be any thread, beacause nobody would let him backstab, but it wouldn’t be such a hard counter.

I think timing is the most important thing when fighting a S/D thief.

Nobody dodges 2 times in a row unless the situation absolutely requires it. I wait for the thief to dodge/flanking strike and start casting an attack (e.g. deathshroud fear on necro, skull crack on warrior, pistol whip on thief….). In case of flanking strike, this almost guarantees me a successfull hit, i don’t even have to move because flanking strike moves the thief directly to me.

I don’t spam autoattacks. When i miss an autoattack with a sword or hammer etc. the aftercast ist too long. Instead i turn autoattack off and try to always hit the thief when he is vulnerable. Like i said above, i try to time key attacks directly after flanking strike.

The S/D set has 2 hard hitting attacks: crippling strike and larcenous strike. Both with a very similar animation, but you can see (and hear) the difference. I try to avoid these, since they also are highly telegraphed.

Playing a S/D thief takes skill, as does countering it. It’s important to know the mechanics (the usual, so-called “l2p” issue) and to practice.
People often get frustrated because their accustomed playstyle and attack patterns don’t work against a S/D thief. Seeing “evaded evaded evaded” is very annoying.

So the best way to counter it is the same like it always should be. Make a thief, learn to play it and then search for a buddy who plays S/D and duel him. And duel him once again. You have nothing to loose in an empty hotjoin arena. You don’t have to get annoyed when you lose.

I don’t want to say that the spec istn’t strong. But there are enough “counters” to it. Sadly, most people are too lazy to realize it.

So i heard about this change and thought well now i don’t need to hoard my jugs etc. any more.
So i opened half of my jugs and noticed that the amount istn’t as high as i expected.
Now im reading that the change has been reverted. Great. I could’ve used a boster to gain much more karma than i have now.
I’m wondering if i get any compensation here. But i really don’t think so.