Guild Wars 2

I was about to create pretty much exactly the same topic !

I owned all the costumes in GW1, the mini-missions, etc. Sometimes even on multiple accounts. But I still haven’t bought a single in-game item in GW2 ; the only things I got so far are account related (character slots, and bank tabs)

Consumables ? No thanks, where are the account unlocks ?

Redfeather.6401:

Vanity items were big in the original GW. The difference though was that casual players could afford them if they were fickle about which ones. Devoted players had the luxury of amassing collections.

True ; and I must say I did like that. With the big difference that there was no concept of “gem” in GW1, and everything that was in the store you would buy on a “what you see is what you get” basis. The real vanity items from GW1 were obtained with dedication and game time, not with a credit card.

I could have been more specific in my initial post, i.e. vanity items in the context of a cash-shop/gem store.

Thank you for pointing that out.

After reading and contributing to a few threads on the “chests issue” (Black Lion Trading and Mad King ones), I realised there probably is a more general question to be asked, hence the creation of this new topic.

People who spent a significant amount of real money in gems and didn’t get any rare item (weapon skin, endless tonic, etc.) complain about the drop rate. Fair enough, it’s understandable – they were expecting something, they didn’t get it, they’re disappointed. Pretty clear.

Whether or not they should have expected what they were expecting is not the question. Some players will say “yes” (= you spend real money, you should get premium exclusive rewards), some say “no” (= rare drops must remain rare, you cannot simply buy these easily). This is irrelevant to thread.

Looking at the big picture, there is a very thin line between spending a large amount of money on RNG items to get a “good” chance of getting what you want, and buying that same item at a very expensive price.
If someone spends $100 on chests to get a rare drop, would they have bought that item directly from the gem store for $100 ? I hope not, and I believe people who bought lots of chests actually expected “more” (i.e. what they wanted, plus all the other small consummables as well)

Nevertheless, stepping back a bit, I believe that spending $100 on chests to get a rare reward is only asking for vanity items.

So the real question is… Is it really what people actually want, vanity items ?

Vanity items serve only one purpose: show others what you can afford. That’s it ; a copy of your bank statement as a forum signature would achieve pretty much the same thing. Except you can “hide” the true motivation behind the vanity items, because they’re “fun”, and “cool”, but also “nice”, and “fun”. And “cool” as well. Not to forget “nice”. Allegedly…
It can only escalate, because whatever someone is willing to pay, there will always be someone else to pay more.

$£5€ for a Witch costume sounds like a nice yet affordable purchase (debatable, I’ll use this as an example in terms of “scale”)
$£100€ for a staff skin sounds a bit extreme… But apparently that’s what the “community” is willing to pay. So what would be next ?
“Get the Festival Hat for only $200” ?
“Don’t forget your Exclusive Party Outfit for just $500” ?
“Limited edition Halloween 2012 Souvenir for a mere $1000” ?
“Special BLT chest for only $10000, and get a chance at a Unique Uber-skin !” ?
…

I seriously hope this is NOT what people are asking for, but I think not everybody realises this is what is currently happening with the BLT/MK chests. That is definitely the way it would sound from a publisher point of view ; if we ever get that kind of stuff, I wouldn’t be surprised. The best thing is that the community “asked” for it…

Any contribution to this idea would be greatly appreciated

Thank you for reading.

Yarrmor.8406:

I hate the fact that we got to transmute the gem stuff for a chance to get stuff you could farm for free…

With this in mind, there’s nothing preventing you from “farming for free” all the components required to craft the permanent Halloween weapon skins.

Also, since it’s possible to exchange gold for gems, it is possible to get everything from the gem store “for free” (I’m not saying it would be practical, though).

If people want something unique for a set price, that is nice and yet affordable, they should get a costume, some minipets, etc.

“all of which I sold for 24g”

Seriously ? You bought keys to sell the rare drops for gold ?

The more I read about these BLTC/MKC threads, the more it seems people complain about the drop rate not because they want the items, but because they expect to get “rich” in the game by spending real money.

That’s typical F2P mechanics, and that’s NOT what most players want.

If all you want is gold, there are much better ways to make some…

cherrie.8907:

If you don’t understand the reaction of some players being vocal about the chests, maybe you should spent some more time and effort to emphasize.

I do understand the frustration, as stated in my initial post And I agree with you that the problem is coming from a significant “gap” between people’s expectations and what BLTC/rare skins actually are.

From my point of view, the ideal solution would be to rollback all these transactions, state the odds clearly, and let people decide. Which is never going to happen.

Instead, the buyers will now be compensated with actual in-game items. That completely defeats the point of the GW2 gem store. When people who have spent $100s in keys and were disappointed will be compensated, as stated in another thread by an ANet official, what it actually means is that people can “buy” rare skins for $100s ! This is terribly wrong, and is exactly what people complain about in all other typical F2P MMO cash shops… It is exactly the same as putting a costume on the gem store for $100. Don’t people realise this is probably the worst thing that can happen with the in-game shop ?!

What I don’t understand is why assume you’re going to get what you want ? If you’re expecting high drop rates, and you open 10 or 20 chests and don’t get anything, maybe you should ask questions… Ask the community about the rates. Raise a ticket if you think it’s bugged. Contact the support. Something useful. But no, people open 200+ chests and then complain ; that’s completely inconsistent.

People thought “I’m going to spend $100s to get what I want”, and they’re going to get what they want (or at least some form of compensation). I do empathize with the disappointed players, because their expectations were not matched, and it’s not entirely their fault, but what’s happening right now with the BLTC is going to pervert the gem store.

The best thing from a publisher point of view is that the community did ask for it. How ridiculous is that.

I wanted to add to this thread, but ended up writing more about the general “rare item/content” in the GW serie. For anyone interested (in case someone still cares after 15 pages…), my small contribution can be read here :

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/halloween/Event-items-rares-drops-and-GW-philosophy

sororsrca.1239:

that is not the philosophy or vision which Mike O’Brien had in mind for GW2 if you had read the two articles I linked

Actually I have, and I haven’t learnt anything new ; the feedback on the Halloween event clearly shows people have different understandings of some statements that were made in the past.

And I don’t deny players who are frustrated the right to feel like they’ve been mislead, I am merely explaining that, for others, the content we have seen so far fits in the continuity of GW1.

sororsrca.1239:

money aside, have you seen the recipes for crafting the weapon skin items? it’s akin to farming for a legendary in …how long is this event? 5 days? yeh…I’d say that’s a bit discouraging for many, like those who can’t play a game 24/7 not mention very unrealistic for any low levelers to achieve.

I haven’t seen the recipes, and I consider myself a “low player” ; I have 350+ hours on the game, and I only just got my first level 80 (and another 70 just behind) ; not a single exotic item except a dungeon weapon from Ascalon Catacombs, no 400 maxed crafter, etc. I haven’t gone past the 50 PvE zones, as I’ve been busy with early dungeons, jumping puzzles, crafting, WvW, etc.
But that’s where our approaches to the game diverge ; many people only see what they’re missing : not getting the unique drops, not having enough time to craft the rare stuff, etc. What I see is what I’ll be doing next year. I will not be getting the unique chainsaw GreatSword skin this year, and I just accept that, and I’m fine with it. Next year, I’ll have a better idea of what to do for Halloween, my characters will be higher level, I’ll have more gold, etc.

Plus, the event has only just started… Not getting everything right now is what frustrates people. This is a long term kind of game, where the rewards come quite slowly and quite late.

We haven’t seen the other acts yet, but I’m pretty sure it will end up with a finale where all participants do get some “Halloween 2012” exclusive item.

Also, some festive items are available for free in the store, and there are some new activities to complete. I also believe it is possible to craft some of the festive weapons (I haven’t checked, but rumors I’ve seen here and there, using some Gifts of Ascalon and Candy Corn, or something similar) ; to be confirmed, buf it this is the case it seems very achievable during the event, even for new players.

On the misleading, this is opened to debate ; I can understand that, without addiitonal information, players coming from different backgrounds could expect very different things. The event lasts for days ; if not sure, why rush it and spends $hundreds :-?

I have seen many posts of players complaining about the drop rate of Halloween items, and “rare” stuff in general ; I rarely post on the forum myself, but I think my contribution can be useful in this specific situation.

I think people in general are taking the GW philosophy completely the wrong way, especially when it comes to “rare” items.
Being a completionist in GW is hard, really hard, to a point where 99.9% have to understand they will NOT be able to get or unlock everything in the game ; they simply won’t. This was true in GW1, and I believe this is true in GW2.

Getting everything requires dedication, and it’s not a matter of throwing $10 or $20 at some party items to be sure to get the cool stuff. That would turn the gem store into a classic cash-shop and people not paying would be left out, which is not at all what the game is about.

If you want to spend some money and get what you’re paying for, get some costumes or armor skins, maybe some character slots or bank expansions to make your gaming experience nicer. See the BLT Chest as your Euromillion ticket (or whatever the equivalent is in North America) ; you don’t expect to win, but you put a few $€£ in it every now and then, just in case.

There are lots of occasions to get unique stuff in the GW serie, and there will be more ; you get what you happen to get, and if you don’t get what you want maybe you’ll get something else at the next event, or maybe next year, etc.

I would expect each player to open a couple of chests, hoping to get something ; and some would indeed get something and they’d all be like "Yeaaah I got something :DDD ". But that’s just a few in millions of players. Buying hundreds of keys thinking you’re guaranteed to get something is definitely not the right thing to do.

With that in mind, the BLT chests and rare skins actually work exactly as I expected as a GW1 player; for those who played it :
- How many players in GW1 never even saw some of the rarest miniatures ? (Island Guardian, anyone ? IIRC a handful of these were awarded in early tournaments ; there were 146 in the entire game, that’s it. 7.000.000+ copies of the game sold, 150 minis.)
- How many players could afford a Panda ? (~1500 Armbraces of Truth, that’s like 500x times what a normal player could gather in years of dedicated gaming)
- How many players would spend months trying to get some rare skin (Voltaic Spear, some of the Nicholas items, etc.) and never get it ?
- How many tens of thousands of Zaishen keys wasted on the Zaishen chest before you finally get an item worth keeping ?
Etc.

That’s what the long term game is about ; the so-called “missing” end-game everybokitteneps talking about, the “collector” side of things : you don’t get everything ; you simply don’t. You get what you get, and you’re happy when you get something because it makes you feel unique. If it only takes $10 to be “unique”, every paying customer ends up being “unique”, which completely defeats the point… That the F2P approach, those who don’t pay get left behind ; here, those who pay do get a slightly better chance. You’re not “buying” the item though, you get a small extra chance at getting the item.

ATM the drop rates from BTL Chests are very low, but that’s a GOOD thing ; it means whether I open a couple of chests or a few hundreds of them, the overall chance of getting something is still low. And that special someone who gets the item does feel unique.

I understand the frustration of some of the players, but I think it’s coming from a major misunderstanding of the philosophy of the GW games.