Guild Wars 2

lol.. if you look at the OP’s other posts.. it’s all related to complaining. Also mostly dealing with EotM.. so yeah….

Interesting.. I haven’t had that happen.. hmmm I’ll have to check it out when I’m close to a large zerg.

Jesse.4631:

johnpoc.8732:

Yup, I’m still getting the QQ. Running a p/d + s/d spec, killed this guy a few times. He was a bit mad lol

wtf i got a msg from the same guy lmao

Been getting called a perma stealth kitten a lot lately… i’m using s/p

you know that’s a famous youtube memser right..

we’ve been trolled…. -_-

pupi.2465:

I see Gallant, used to play warrior, im looking for more challenge now, and i like the sneaky playstyle.

Im using this build

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMp0pdPxzJ8PNRLRtdHEdfgXnh2PQAEiA-T1RBwAX3fU+dT9H86BQpp5xJAAwDAwsSQSBExyI-w

You have other build suggestions i should try?

that’s the pve meta build for thieves.. so if you are doing pve content, that’s the build for you..

for pvp i’ve been using two different builds

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaFmAmg4qHenmz0GtTwuDAA-TZBFwACOBA12fYxhAoaZAAPBAA

and

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaFmgmg2e4NICeHmvUGtCAA-TZBFwA02fgwJAo9hAoaZAAPBAA

the rotation of D/D allows for the 10% damage increase, so you still gain the bonus damage and the revealed training power increase.

and now we have this bug to deal with..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/VIDEO-Steal-Bug-after-9-9-2014-patch/first#post4386733

don’t forget, we also received the awesome steal bug.. -_-

please fix the steal pathing bug.

Then provide them. I’ve posted the numbers for D/D as well as a variant for S/D with the highest damage spec for thief.
Also if that isn’t enough, various speed runner’s have posted the numbers, guides and video’s for D/D. so far we haven’t seen any documentation on your opinion.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

No…no…

There is no “consistent DPS” advantage with S/D. Yes, there is a big spike of damage with D/D when you CnD-> BS, but the dagger autoattack even without the CnD/BS is higher DPS than the sword autoattack. D/D does more consistent DPS AND more burst DPS.

Didn’t you read what I’ve posted?

Yea, you can boon steal with S/D in a handful of areas in PvE, but that doesn’t make S/D a better single target DPS weapon (which is what this thread is about).

If you think that D/D is the answer to the OP’s question, then I digress. I guess the OP will figure it out soon enough.

Yes he will figure out the answer to his question very readily. the numbers don’t lie.

Auesis.7301:

Anyone claiming that S/x is anywhere close to D/D for single-target DPS is misguided at best and maliciously deceitful at worst.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit#gid=1883199869

Unless you find a way for S/D or S/P to reach at least 10.7k DPS on a single target in optimal conditions, you have an entire catalog of research against you. Throwing around wiki articles with vague descriptions and not bringing any proper numbers or evidence to the table is going to get you nowhere.

Very nice! thank you for sharing this!

we can all play the word game if you chose. here is a quote from the same article.

“Weapons
Dagger

Dagger provides the highest single target DPS skills. Let’s look at them individually:

Auto-Attack: Double Strike, Wild Strike, & Lotus Strike

Double Strike consists of 2 fast attacks (0.38s), Wild Strike of a slower, stronger attack which restores 10 endurance (0.74s), and Lotus Strike, which is as strong as Wild Strike, applies 4 seconds of poison, but is the slowest attack of all three (0.91s).

Together the Autoattack has a full duration of 2.03 seconds, and each successive skill of the auto-attack has a lower DPS than it’s previous skill. That means Double Strike has a higher DPS than Wild Strike, which has a higher DPS than Lotus Strike. It is recommended to break the chain as early as possible to maximise DPS.

Stealth Skill: Backstab

Backstab replaces your auto-attack chain when you enter stealth. It hits for double the damage when used at a foe’s flanking position (this includes the sides, see mechanics for more details).

Heartseeker
This skill gets stronger the less health your target has. It is generally recommended to use this after your foe has lost half it’s health. The damage increases even more against targets with less than 25% health. Because of it’s low cast time, it is generally regarded to be the strongest single target DPS skill for a thief.
The leap range can be increased by buffs like swiftness and decreased by conditions like crippled and chill. It is possible to manipulate the distance with your camera as well. If you look at your character from a bird’s eye view above, it will shorten the leap."

overall playing that sort of game is irrelevant. The true topic is weather or not Dagger/Dagger is the highest dps set for Thief.. and with everything that i posted earlier, it is.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Tengu.5267:

D/D (for pve), is the strongest weapons set for single target dps. due tot he backstab mechanic. As well as the heartseeker once the target reaches 50% health.

here is a quote from the listed article below.
~snip~

Also from the same article:

“Flanking Strike / Larcenous Strike (s/d)
Flanking Strike is a cleaving attack which evades and opens up Larcenous Strike for three seconds. Larcenous Strike hits a single-target, has very high DPS, and can steal one boon from the target.”

Larcenous Strike has a high dps when it hits. but have you looked at the time it takes in order to land the attack, as well as the dps loss by the “evade” animation? Or the amount of initiative it takes in order to “sustain” this damage? For max dps, your traits will be 6/6/0/0/2. Which means that you’ll have the standard pool of initiative. (Thieves have a base of 12 initiative)

(I saw before that you require numbers in order to full grasp this concept. So I’ll do my best to accommodate you.)

The Dagger auto attack is an Attack rate is one sequence per 2.07 seconds.
The Sword auto attack is an Attack rate is one sequence per 2.52 seconds.

Flanking Strike: cost 3 initiative, cast time ½ of a second. Base damage: Damage: 252 (0.75)

Larcenous Strike: cost 2 initiative, cast time ½ of a second. Base damage: Damage: 365 (1.5)

Cloak and Dagger: cost 6 initiative, cast time ½ of a second. Base damage: Damage: 504 (1.0)

Back Stab: cost: nothing, cast time ¼ of a second. Base Damage: Front damage: 403 (1.2)
Back damage: 806 (2.4)

Heartseeker: cost: 3 initiative, cast time ¾ of a second. Base Damage: 100%-50%: 336 (1.0)? 50%-25%: 504 (1.5)? 25%-0%: 672 (2.0)?

I left the hyper link for “damage” so you can view the formula in order to how much damage each attack deals with your current setup. If not, here is the formula.

Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)

Larcenous Strike:
So, in order to maximize your dps for larcenous strike, (removing steal, for simplicity sake) you’ll have to Cloak and Dagger before landing this attack. (this way you’ll get the +200 power for the revealed training trait). So let’s break the rotation down. Precast flanking strike (1/2 second) dealing 252 (0.75) damage cost 3 initiative. then holding Larcenous strike. (no damage, cost: 0) > Cloak and Dagger (1/2 second) dealing 504 (1.0) cost 6 initiative. Then Larcenous strike. (1/2 second) dealing 365 (1.5): cost 2 initiative). (This string has spent a total of 11 initiative. (before natural initiative regen or trait regen). Total time spend within the animations are 1.5 seconds to land 3 hits. In the time between the attacks you could try to filler with sword auto attacks. (this might be difficult to do with in the time frame for sustained damage, as well as burst.) so with the time and initiative spend you are looking at a total of a 10% damage loss due to being below the threshold for First strikes.

Taking into the “Revealed” debuff of 3 seconds. Over the course of a 5 min fight you can perform this attack strings a total of 66 times.

Dagger/Dagger, Backstab:

I’ll paraphrase the link from the previous article.

Above 50% Health: CnD + BS + DS,WS,LS + (Optional) DS
Below 50% Health: HS + As few Auto Attacks as possible

So starting with 12 initiative, you begin by using Cloak and Dagger: (1/2 of a second) dealing 504 (1.0) cost 6 initiative. Once done, you’ll use Backstab: (1/4 of a second) dealing 806 (2.4) cost: 0. This way you’ll have the full benefit of “Revealed training, as well as First Strikes. Deal an extra 10% damage. Total time 0.75 seconds. Once the target is below 50% health your attack string will be Heartseeker (3/4 of a second) dealing 50%-25%: 504 (1.5) 25%-0%: 672 (2.0) cost of 3 initiative.

Taking into the “Revealed” debuff of 3 seconds. Over the course of a 5 min fight you can perform these two attack strings a total of 80 times.

Now just looking at the rough numbers, you have a much higher coefficient with the Dagger/Dagger set, along with a faster attack string as well as an increase of damage as the targets health drops. This total attack string also only cost 6 initiative. Over all seems that Dagger/Dagger is by far the best weapons set for single target dps.

I hope this helps.

Very happy to help

D/D (for pve), is the strongest weapons set for single target dps. due tot he backstab mechanic. As well as the heartseeker once the target reaches 50% health.

here is a quote from the listed article below.

“Dagger/Dagger

Maximizing DPS on this traditional single-target weapon kit involves many intricate aspects. Depending on whether it’s important to apply weakness or gain extra endurance the auto-attack portion of the rotation can be tweaked to speed it up or slow it down. In general, you’ll want to use your hardest hitting attacks as soon as possible, while having practiced the content enough to know how many portions of the auto-attack to include as padding.

The auto-attack chain is reset when other weapon skills are used. So it is important to note when you want to use HS as much as possible, because each sequential skill of the auto-attack is weaker than it’s previous skills. Learning to pad only one or two auto-attacks in between heartseekers will help maximize DPS over the long run. It may be a good idea to practice the combos DS+HS and DS+WS+HS.

If the fight is short and maintaining initiative is of no concern, then Double Strike is enough to pad between Heartseekers. If you need to maintain initiative for a longer time such as 3-5 HS, then use DS + WS to pad in between. Spamming Heartseeker until you run out of initiative and then having to use the full auto-attack chain without the benefits of the First Strikes trait would be a DPS loss.

If you’re fighting Lupi or the Legendary Archdiviner with additional Mobs, then Dancing Dagger would replace the CnD+Backstab portion of the rotation. Once the additional mob’s health is below 50% health it is safe to switch to heartseekers against it. It is very easy to lose the 10% bonus, so try not to spam Dancing Dagger.

Above 50% Health: CnD + BS + DS,WS,LS + (Optional) DS

Below 50% Health: HS + As few Auto Attacks as possible

The extra optional DS will increase DPS overall and helps manage initiative. For best timing press CnD after the first hit of the optional DS. If you miss the timing and cancel too early, you’ll only hit DS once instead of twice which is worse than if you had skipped it entirely. Therefore, if you’re unable to do it properly, skip it entirely to maximize your DPS.

To maximize your DPS even more, you can use Smoke Screen and HS after 50% to get the power boost from Revealed Training. Place it behind the target to get the Backstab right after you use HS, then use DS + WS + HS + DS + HS + Backstab to activate Revealed Training again.

During encounters where phase between 50% to 25% health takes longer than 30 seconds, we recommend continuing the CnD + BS rotation that was being used above 50% health. This would probably happen during Lupi in Arah or against the Arch Diviner in Fractals."

the link below is a guide that was written by the games current speedrunners.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/10/gw2-thief-pve-class-guide/#DaggerDagger

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/10/gw2-thief-pve-class-guide/

:) lets do it!

Cool look.. Unity is coming out soon.. we’ll see a few more looks in that game.

Yeah, i don’t run d/p, I run the same traits but with s/d

a Hambow’s animations are really easy to see, dodge the stun, and the knock back.. the fight is pretty easy from there out.

PhDusk.2590:

Teach me your ways Caed sempai sama kun.

O-o 3 honorifics?! no….no…no! lol only one!

Just a few things that I’ve noticed. you are currently using “force” on both your daggers.. these don’t stack.. so effectively gimping some of your damage. look into either Air, or Blood sigils for the open slot.
Ruby orbs are ok, but you might want to look into scholar runes. you are also missing secondary weapon set. (you can use shortbow, or dagger/pistol etc..)
utilities, Infiltrator’s signet might be a better option for you, over Assassins signet. (the added stun break really helps)

I for one would say yes.

WaterHunter.8973:

Tengu.5267:

Here is a pic of my Thief

Hey btw what armor is that?

The mask is Human Cultural T3,
The shoulders are Council Watch
Strider chest,
Inquest gloves
Buccaneer Legs
Whispers Boots

Here is a pic of my Thief