Guild Wars 2

Seeing the “new builds” people are suggesting for guardians is disheartening (Like in our sub-profession forum).
Any game that doesn’t try to balance “roles” 1v1 ends up flawed and unbalanced; Keep in mind that it is very difficult even near impossible to be balanced.

Melee class/profession with no means to stay in melee is broken. You can argue that others are there to help you but I can tell you that you are just hindering the team if you need someone to hold your hand.

Also, about the sword “teleport” skill….it sucks. It is slow.

Something that is questionable thou, someone said that running away in sPvP is bad? While certainly that running away will let them capture it, but remember that someone else can “take their” place while they get out of combat and heal.
So that way, you are not capturing anything, and someone will come to bust you “soon”.

Someone mentioned some good point before, Aegis gets removed on anything (even a critter hit as he described it).

Water fights should be removed from sPvP also, its broken.

Haha, one can always hope and dream thou. Also when they decided that its time to add new traits, its a good time to give us something different, and fix some of our not used utilities (Spirit weapons with some tweaks here and there can be a fun build). That goes for all professions of course, but please understand that Guardians has been using the same builds….

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

Meh a good spot is subjective, using the same build for ages isn’t. Every profession has one or two builds(at least) which are good, but that changed for some.
Also, just want to point out something about healing; Warriors has way more hp than Guardians. What is considered a panic attack for some, is “oh you hit me huh” for another.
So yes, we have some builds that actually work that we been using for a long time. We need something that make us want to change and use more of utilities. Give us new toys which actually works.

@Syeria:
You just don’t want to admit that a good spot is being used as an excuse for not making any change for us.

As many said, we want some varieties (but due to some balance issues like Spirit Weapons <—-). And honestly, I am not sure why you keep ignoring that there is a balance issues with some of our utilities and other things (I mentioned Spirit Weapons so you can dig into that if you want).
@Muchacho:
Our new traits are one of the things that I am talking about. As well some of our old traits.

Mikau said it nicely also. Put some dumb condition that can protect our Burning for example.

Guardians can play all modes (sPvP, WvW, PvE), not necessary the best but they can fill some roles (ignoring how effective it is). Guardians are by no mean useless.
What I mean by us not being in a good spot is that, we are getting at as an excuse for not making any significant change on how the professions plays (been like that since I played it). We have our issues, many stated them; None is getting addressed thou.

Guardians will be the profession that gets “shut in”, while others gets stronger. Others gets new toys to try and play around with, while guardians being the poor profession (given the broken new toys). As I said earlier, a good spot includes new builds, excitements, skills and utilities that we can use as well as being balanced.

I am fine with having weaknesses in our profession, but stop using a good spot for “locking us up” in one or two builds.

Did you just say mitigating damage for themselves and others better than anyone else? You do know that people are complaining about Area Damage for a long time right? Are you talking about PvE perhaps? I am not mis-defining things, I am telling you how things are.
Also, balance is something that is like the “Winters” battle game (forgot the name); That is balance. What you are describing is profession diversity, and how they work differently.
Again, “Guardians in a good spot” should stop being used as an excuses not to make changes to us(not nerfing). I know how hard it is to make balanced game, and skills has a lot to do with balance…I am not sure why you are not getting that.

And I like Guardians, its why I choose them. I know plenty about balance also.

You see, you re-arranged the line, so warriors healing signet is overpowered.; And that’s the thing. You put the “good spot”, what you don’t get is there is no such thing; Because different professions are different.
You can say damage is balanced when two professions are roughly doing the same damage (in reality). You are confusing balance with “good spot”, does Wall of Reflection makes Guardians overpower compared to Warriors? That’s a relative thing on how much having it changes how the battle goes.

A good spot is something relative, and I assume you know what relative means right? A good spot is something that depends on the “philosophy” behind the design. A good spot in imbalanced game is what you said “excitement, variety, or openness of meta.” along with the balance that I am talking about (Damaged, endurance, Etc).

Or perhaps you mean that a good spot is someone who can fill multiple roles (not at the same time of course)?

Syeria.4812:

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

You do know that problems get categorized right? Us not getting new things cause “we are in a good spot” need to stop, its not fun nor valid.

Can you define a “good spot”? For all your reasoning, we could argue that “Warriors” are in “good spot” and that the rest need to be brought up to that. I am interested to hear you defining the “good spot”, go on.

Edit: Replying to:
“So what you’re really saying is that it’s not that guardians aren’t in a good spot, you just want to shake up the meta. That’s a completely fair position to take, but if that’s what you want, say that. That has nothing to do with whether guardians are balanced or not.”

There are imbalances, and that’s fine. They try to make it balanced (it is a game after all), and differences are there for fun; However someone killing you in 2 shots without any chance to react isn’t balance.
Again, using something like “good spot” which doesn’t exists; We are literally getting that as an excuses for not making changes in Guardians (except when its nerfing something). But lets hear you define the good spot.

We sacrifice too much to gain something (lets take damage dealing for example), making us high risk with okay reward. The problem is others do it better than us, and is less risky.
Take bunker/tank Guardians, they sacrifice all their damage (almost); Yet with their counter-part (Warriors, since they are the other heavy armor), they actually put pressure on the opponent unlike the Guardians.
Take spirit weapons, not to mention that they die so fast (making them redundant) without even trying to hit them. Their usefulness compared to lets say necromancers pets are not even remotely close.
I can start naming a lot of our utilities skills that are useless to most builds, and might only work in a certain build(s); Along with our Elite Skills being useless, but most are suffering from that.
We don’t want guardians to be overpowered, but its starting to feel that us being “balanced/in a good spot” is just an excuse that is being used to shut us up; While others are getting their new toys, and us watching…hoping.

Are we getting any of the “up-coming” conditions? Or perhaps Chill will be our trademark? Are we supposed to have our weakness remains our weakness, when that doesn’t apply for all(some) the other professions? What is our supposed “Role” in all these balances that’s going around among other classes?

Edit: Just to be clear, we don’t want to be immortal or something; But at least, give us some “new toys” that can be used.

Forgot to mention, give us some protection to our Condition (Burning).

True, and I guess many are trying to be optimistic that the new traits will be the beginning for more. Something to collect, and more things to customize.

As monochrome said, and to be clear; We do have some builds, that someone can play. But they are not as good as their counter-parts on other professions. Meditation comes to mind for example.
@Phaeton:
Its okay not wanting to post something, that doesn’t make your point valid thou. You can easily slap some traits and runes/sigils together then call it a day; That is a build after all. Thou you need to be specific about what build, cause in guardians case; Utilities depends on builds as well.

Can you elaborate more please? Are you talking about condition build or meditation or?

Which build do you feel is strong in sPvP?

To be optimistic a little bit, lets hope that this is just the beginning of adding more skills and traits. What might be useless today, becomes useful tomorrow. But you both have a valid points.

When you play something, that is only getting nerfed; Their issues not being address, and the mechanism of their core didn’t change…..
Not to mention that misinformation that is going around.

Why nobody is talking about Guardians?

When I am playing not on my bunker, I don’t use it. On paper, it looks strong. But when you actually try it, you are wasting a utility slot unless you are a bunker/tank (Which sadly we have a lot of wasted utilities). Once upon a time, a timed “Stand your ground” could actually make a difference.
I use the Power Signet, not because it is strong. But actually knockdown is nice, and useful (But has a long cooldown). On the other hand Judgment Signet, the active is meh.
What Guardians are getting are something that works, in some specific build; And useless most of the time (for the other builds).
As Talyn said, a lot of our utilities skill need to be looked at, including spirit weapons and signets.

Which Signet do you think is “strong” thou?

I understand what you mean Criminal, and you are right about that. It is getting a little frustrating to some degree. But lets not go into threaten to stop playing until things are fixed. Thou, I always say, if you are starting to get more angry when you are playing than having fun; That’s a sign to take a break or something like that.

@Jerus:
I am talking about the fact, that Symbols will do damage, and give their boon; That’s what I meant by actually working and connecting.
@Talyn:
It is true, it’s starting to feel like an excuse for not addressing Guardian’s issues.
@Black Box:
It is okay, not be the best in every role you can fit; However, Guardian’s do sacrifice a lot to fill roles.

I just want to point out that 3k HP wont help much (if noticeable at all) against conditions. The problem is that condition ticks way too much, and is reapplied so fast.

Understandable what you mean Arken, but I believe that some wouldn’t be happy about having their professions getting nerfed a lot (thou some needs to be brought back to line). And we don’t want the game to be stale, it is nice that they are finally adding new traits and so. But I agree with you.

Guardians in general, sacrifice a lot to gain something, and that’s fine. But others doesn’t sacrifice much, but they gain a lot in many different aspects.

PVE wise: Guardians are in a good spot, the fact that their “symbols” actually works (Connects) there, is kind of a plus; Otherwise, no. A lot of professions bring something/a-lot into the table and their damage is also not so far behind(if not on par with them).

WvW: Guardians plays nicely, seemingly cause there isn’t much to do in WvW. Bringing a guardian won’t make you “instant-win”, button. So perhaps you should elaborate this with an example or two, if you would be kind.

sPvP:
Warriors are actually stronger bunker than guardians at the moment (that’s why I said that there is a lot of confusion about warriors survivability and guardians). Meditation DPS, looks nice but the fact the rest does it better with less risk. Thou, I enjoy playing a Guardian; However, I am not blind.

As I said, it is just becoming an excuse not to address our issues. Spirit weapons dies fast, and are slow actually. On paper, it seems that they had a plan for them but they stopped during; Leaving them broken kind of and useless (Except some uses….).

The new traits are useless (plenty) that even on paper/theory crafting, they don’t fit. If only the developers shared their view, instead of being quiet. We know that they are busy, but keeping us in the dark isn’t helping anyone.

While I do agree, that generally speaking; Guardians are in a good balance spot. It is the fact that it has been for a long time, things changed. Guardians got nerfed, others getting buffed, while others are left broken. When you say that Guardians are in a good spot, while some has been over for a long time; that is what I am talking about.

That’s not a good spot, that’s just an excuse to use to leave someone and not address their issues. That goes for all professions, not just guardians.

While roaming the forums around, and the professions sub-forums precisely. I noticed how many are clearly misinformed about guardians. Someone said that guardians are in a good spot, when we actually are not.
Our core problems are not addressed, and that been for a long time. We get nerfed (I don’t mind when getting nerfed is bringing us in line with everyone) when others are clearly in “need” to brought to “earthly matters”.

So, why is there none talking about us being broken (in profession balance)? If we are in a good spot, why isn’t the others in line with us? Why are people confusing “Warriors” survivability with “Guardians”?

Are we accepting that we are okay cause someone said we are? Where are all the guardians? I know many re-rolled, or play others, but still.