Guild Wars 2

As per title, the new “Path of Fire”-themed installer does not allow selecting destination directory. In the past, up to the last Heart of Thorns-themed installer, you would get the standard installation wizard (if I remember correctly after pressing “INSTALL”) that would provide such an option.

EDIT (2): (b) could even have some time distance between matches to give some time to the guild to rest/re-strategize and remove the fleeting nature of short term accomplishment of WvW ( <—- that is personal opinion, it is how I always saw WvW, opinions here might vary)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

That’s a bit to assume, that there will be only one GvG map instance created per Open World map instance. What happens when the ratio is not 1:1? If there are more Open World map instances than GvG map instances, does the winning GvG NPC/Flag appear in all Open World map instances? More importantly, what happens when there are more GvG map instances than Open World map instances? Which winning Guild gets to claim the Open World map instance(s)?

In my example on map 1 I mentioned guilds 1 2 3 so I initially assumed SINGLE map per region with N guilds competing for it. But now that you mention is, it might get a bit messy what if 20 guilds join one map? That might be messy. A solution to that could be to:

(a) try it to see if the mess is actually fun
(b) safer solution, make it a sort of small tournament: each map has a preset cap of N guilds joining. If 2N join, the first N fight in one instance, the second half N fight in the second instance, victors do the final battle on 1v1 guild. N does not have to be the same in all instances, mix n match and calibrate to what works best.

I think I would go for (b), (a) could become frustrating and annoying rather than fun.

EDIT: and lets not forget player cap due to technical reasons, scratch (a), its completely wrong.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If there are many instances for the GvG(vG) players, again, which Guild gets to claim the NPC/flag in the Open World?

I am gonna sketch an example, disclaimer, it might have flaws:

- Imagine we have one GvG instance per open world map (too many/too few, can be calibrated)

- The guild that wants to participate goes to (the WvW tab? another tab?), selects one of the maps and SIGNS UP FOR IT consciously and joins. PvE maps are unaffected. For the sake of organization, lets assume that the matches are scheduled (this might not be the best idea, up to debate).

- So lets assume for the sake of simplicity there are 3 matches in three different distinct areas. Guilds 1 2 3 join the first map. Guilds 4 5 join the 2nd. Guilds 6 7 8 the 3rd.

- Guild 2 wins the match for the first match, lets say Fort Salma. Its banners pop up on Fort Salma in the ACTUAL open world for bragging rights (too intrusive? up for debate) and an NPC with its tag welcomes players entering the area or NPCs with that guild tag do the escort events alongside the rest of the players in the Open World.

- Repeat scenario for maps 2 and 3 with two other winning guilds and 2 other areas, say Faren’s Waypoint and that fort I cannot remember its name in Wayfarer Foothills.

For extra flavor, imagine guild 2 actually loves Charrs (yay for Charrs) and now can select the greeting/escorting NPC to be a Charr (unless this sound silly to you).

penelopehannibal.8947:

No. PvE was specifically designed to be the Co-Operative mode in the game. There are PvP & Guild Hall arenas for GvG. Any form of competitive play in the PvE areas would ruin the game.

Ok, now that I got this completely irrelevant and off-the-mark response to something I addressed 10 times in this thread from yet another poster who did NOT read it even once, I can:

- ignore it (done it already, did not work)
- repeat what I said the other 10 times (boring, done it, did not work)
- rage/rant (I am not that desparate… yet)
- reply in a silly way – hm haven’t tried that, let’s see if this will work

Calm down, lower you pitchfork, noone is threatening your PvE at all, I already addressed that many times, and please, PLEASE, read the thread!! NOW! (yay for smilies)

Back to the topic…

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

In that case, it will only ever be the top 500-man Guilds; none of the smaller Guilds will ever have a chance, and, likely, there would be the same lamentations about Guild-centric content only created for the largest Guilds.

That is a risk, and there is a design choice there: either create tiers based on guild size or somehow cap large guilds (possibly leaving some of them unsatified) or being fair (as in, not in any way limiting it/handing out special treatments) and leaving small guilds unsatisfied. In such cases you can almost never satisfy everyone.

EDIT: it is interesting though that some people expressed concerns about the population being too spread, and others about this possibly leaving guilds out. These two are not compatible . Personally, I find the second one more of a risk.

EDIT 2: Given the size of the world and the possibility of a large number of such instances, there might just be the chance that there is enough content to not leave anyone behind. The amount of “areas”/instances to compete on would have to be considered to carefully balance (not leaving anyone behind)/(spreading the population too thin). I can appreciate this might not be an easy feat development/design-wise but I believe ANet has the competency to pull it off.

EDIT 3: Note that I say “competency”, not resources". Resources are based on prioritization and are up to them, tugging them to yet another direction is a very valid concern, but I repeat, my intention here is to:

- give an idea that I feel can fit into the GW2 ecosystem without disrupting anything
- provoke discussion on it

Whether it will happen or not, does not necessarily have to dictate whether we discuss it or not. Maybe smaller ideas will come out of this that can be implemented in a more realistic way. Which is the reason I do NOT agree with swagger’s approach of just trying to drown out the discussion.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As to the NPC or flag showing in Open World: Is this, then, GvGvGvGvGvG(etc.)? If not, and it’s only GvG, then which Guild out of the many instances created for a specific ‘node’ get to claim the NPC or flag?

Was thinking more like GvGvGvG…

Swagger.1459:

…
- There are guild missions and active guilds in wvw
…
- What you are proposing is making copies of pve maps into gvg battle grounds. The devs don’t want that
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- and the resources to make that happen would hurt the plethora of other important things this game really needs the devs to focus on
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Good luck!

- Not enough in my opinion, we agree to disagree here
- Ref/link on the devs not wanting it please, otherwise it is just your opinion
- That could very well be the case, but it is not my call nor yours. My right as well as yours is weighing in and expressing if we want it or not here, why, and possibly some brainstorming.
- Thanks

To answer to the question that popped up a couple times in a more concise way about what this would serve/what need it would fill:

(1) more (in my opinion much needed) meaningful guild related activities, including GvG

(2) satisfy the disgruntled WvW crowd with a hopefully satisfying mode/experience

(3) add to the illusion of a dynamic world. Imagine for example that the NPC guards that appear in a PvE dynamic event in OW have the guild tag of the guild that won the GvG for that area (I repeat, in an instanced, non-intrusive to PvE event). Would’t that add in a subtle way to the dynamic feel of the world? Wouldn’t that provide some agency to the players participating?

(4) increase relevance of the whole OW map and further motivate gameplay in all OW zones for 80lvl characters

zealex.9410:

the only thing is see bad about it is that it would spread the already small wvw playerbase more not sure if thats a good think but w/e

I repeat: all guilds from all EU servers competing for any of the N instances that they select to go for. Possibly even in a scheduled way. I do not think it would spread the playerbase.

joneirikb.7506:

…
But the idea of having guild “competing” over map specific bragging rights can be interesting, and could be done in a few different ways.
…
Other options could be linking up to some of the existing activities or guild missions. Like racing each others in various guild missions, or setting up vs matches in Keg-brawl etc.
…

Also, how could I miss not commenting and giving kudos for this little gem!! Thumbs up.

It does not even have to be only wars, just some sort of GvG activity for fun and a little something to show for it. I really believe it would make the world more alive, the guilds more meaningful. And doing it in Open World instances would help relate to the world itself, as opposed to mists.

joneirikb.7506:

…
But the idea of having guild “competing” over map specific bragging rights can be interesting, and could be done in a few different ways.

Obviously one could be combat, say one of the tower areas in one of the OW maps, clip it out and make it an instance (many of them are already used that way in Personal Story, so could be re-usable), and allow 2 guilds to setup a “guild vs guild fight” there, where one defends the tower while the other attacks. Put up some rewards, and allow for some vanity like banners/colors on the tower etc for X time. This could be an interesting variation for Guild Missions.

Other options could be linking up to some of the existing activities or guild missions. Like racing each others in various guild missions, or setting up vs matches in Keg-brawl etc.

There are multiple ways to make something like this work, that doesn’t even have to scare away the PvE players

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TLDR: The main thing I got from the OP was that he wanted things for guilds to do together, in some kind of competition vs other guilds. As a way to increase interest in playing with/as a guild, and to improve on guild pride. Not just slap PvP on top of PvE and go gank everyone.

Indeed. There is a lot of prejudice against and misreading (or not-reading) of the concept of this idea , which just saddens me. The only valid criticism as far as I am concerned so far is limited dev capital.

Looks like my idea was very ill-received. Mods, feel free to close the thread, I think the consensus clearly was: HELL NO :P

Swagger.1459:

This suggestion is not going to happen. WvW is the go to place for “open world” pvp stuff. The devs are not going to devote resources to this, especially when it breaks the entire game design and while wvw, professions, combat… need a lot of work. You want gvg pvp stuff? Form a guild and go to wvw, eotm, os and set up guild fights in your guild hall…

Too dogmatic.

Swagger.1459:

There is so much this game needs, and special attention to organized gvg battles is not one of them.

This could very possibly be the case. Which is why this here is called a suggestion/idea, nothing more. I just wanted to see what everyone thinks. If most people think that is a bad idea (looks like that is the case), I am perfectly fine with dropping it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

…
I would appreciate some elaboration as to how it is a good idea for this game. People disagree about all sorts of things in GW2, but this is one area that nearly everyone loves: nodes aren’t competitive; they are accessible to everyone.

So why would it make sense to overhaul this mechanic, rather than any ANet investing in any of the 32,478 fine suggestions made in these very forums?

Personally, I find it annoying that in BDO, I have to compete with my friends to get loot. They literally have to turn off a feature (mini pet autolooting) so I can catch up.

Edited both OP and topic title to address the misunderstanding, my OP was indeed too vague and my title badly-worded. I also addressed it in some of the replies.

Tl;Dr: I did not mean to imply contest in the existing OW instances. No change in OW gameplay at all!! I meant separate, parallel WvW instances based on Open World content, with a possible (up to debate) discreet visible clue in open world for the victor.

Dawdler.8521:

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OP is clearly suggesting it either on specific maps or specific instances on a map that’s been changed to accomodate PvP.
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Make a “war” and “peace” state of that shift all the time, some way to join a faction and you’re set.
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The problem is if you actually want this truly integrated into the world,
…

Just to clarify that I do mean parallel PvE and WvW instances running together. You don’t want to join the war? Game goes on in the PvE instance as it was done until today, no change, end of story, we do not want to upset PvE fans.

This is nicely summed up in your last sentence:

Just tossing this into existing maps will probably be very awkward and require breaking basic megaserver tech in order to split instances depending on whether people want to enter a warzone instance or not. New endgame maps for it is the superior solution.

I only disagree with the last bit. We get instances from open world map in living story, so running parallel instances does not sound infeasible to me, plus reuse of map content/existing assets sounds like good economy. Not sure what this would imply in dev cost for managing player numbers/additional mechanics. As I said, that is a valid concern.

DeanBB.4268:

Many WvW’ers currently complain that the Desert Borderland map is too big, so I can’t see them in favor of an entire open PvE map. If it’s about taking a keep, and within a limited area, I’m not sure how it’s any different than what we have in WvW now. I guess making it GvG is the real difference?

That and the fact that any territory would be open for ALL the guilds in ALL the servers of a region, should make up for player density. Also enables GvG. If the fights are sceduled in some way, contest would be enough to make for populated instances. The idea of limited areas might be worth exploring. In any case, if the central objective is in one spot this could limit wandering off.

DeanBB.4268:

Likewise, many PvP’ers want straightforward Group vs Group (let’s leave the size of “Group” vague, shall we?) fights without all the PvE-type distractions.

Good point. I guess both approaches would be valid, there could even be mix n match on different instances, to cater for both sPvP and WvW fans. Or just make a tough choice and pick one of the two.[/quote]

DeanBB.4268:

So I’m not entirely sure which void this proposal is meant to fill.

Variety in WvW-style content. Making all Open world map content more prominent and relevant.

DeanBB.4268:

In GW1, a guild could take a town in the Kurzick or Luxon lands. I wasn’t in any of those guilds, so I never once cared who controlled those towns. I wouldn’t care if that was added to GW2, either.

This is probably the most tricky bit: balancing it in a way that is enough motivation for guilds to participate, but also discreet (like a banner or an NPC popping in the actual open world for the victor). Essentially ths should only be a sort of bragging rights, and not caring about it from a PvE player’s perspective would be considered GOOD, because it means it is not disruptive.

Changed the title of the topic to better reflect what I had in mind – thanks all for the feedback so far, seems that even my title was misleadingly hinting at Open World PvP (not my intention).

Dawdler.8521:

flog.3485:

Then that is exactly what I am thinking. Just propose your ideas for WvW maps, there is plenty of space for that. No need to use pve maps.

I fail to see the need to suggest it for WvW maps. Guild banners already show on claimed objectives.

The idea was to have some sort of visible clue in the open world but:

(1) the fight would be instanced, a la WvW
(2) it would be Guild v Guild instead of server v server
(3) the effect would have to be discreet, for fear of ruining the feel of the Open World. This would DEFINITELY need to start in baby steps The example of the guild banner on Open World might be too bold (suggestions welcome), the idea of an NPC guild rep on the open world spot as a reminder that this guild won that war seems nice to me.

sorudo.9054:

as long as it’s in WvW maps i don’t mind, however, one foot in PvE with that and it’s a big fat NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally agree!

Quick remark: would you consider a guild banner flying or an NPC with the guild tag greeting visitors to the area such a foot? As long as all the action is done in WvW-style instanced maps?

flog.3485:

This sort of feature you propose is something that could very well work in WvW. I think you got in the wrong subforum.

Exactly! As an afterthought, it might be better to start off there. I did put it to my OP as a suggestion, as a hint to ANet that this might need moving.

The only difference this has from WvW mechanics, is that I would seriously think some sort of “prestige” oriented effect to motivate gaming around that. The most obvious example of guild banners of the victorious guild for example flying over Fort Salma, visible to the rest of open world.

I can foresee people not liking it because that might give rise to ridiculous/trollish banners flying all over Tyria, but it does not have to be so intrusive. Ideas and feedback are welcome. Heck, even just using maps from Open World in WvW could be a nice first step.

DeanBB.4268:

Not everyone has played BDO, so you have to explain what you are proposing. From the responses, it sounds like PvP on PvE maps, which gets my No vote. But if it is something else, you must make that clear.

You are right, my original post was not clear enough. Thanks for the constructive criticism. I added some additional clarifications and explanations, I hope it looks better now. I will be adding to it along the way, hoping to flesh out the idea in a more concise way.

I repeat just to make it crystal clear in a tl;dr: I do not suggest PvP in open world, but WvW using map instances with open world content, and a possible “visual” or otherwise (like guild banners flying over spots as they already exist in WvW) after-effect as a prestige motivation for guilds to participate.

Acnologia.6934:

Because high lv players camping around killing low lv players when they cross their way is dumb (BDO)+ gw2 pve is a friendly and cooperative game since release + we have WvW + changing all the maps balancing them as you say to do so is an enourmous amount of work for a dumb feature + come on just think about it…

I edited my OP to clarify that this would take place ONLY in instances of the maps for players signing up for it, since the people responding hinted that I suggested open world PVP.

I repeat and stress out: I DID NOT hint at that.

Balancing and confusing the devs with yet another direction is a very valid concern and I appreciate that.

tzervo.3754:

…

2) They could be implemented in a way that does NOT disrupt regular open world/PVE players (only on specific map instances)

…

Please read my OP. I DEFINITELY do not want it to be a disruptive idea, merely to use map content from open world, and possibly have a “prestige” effect (winning guild’s banner flying in a castle or something).

Kumion.7580:

Guild Wars is not Black Desert.

No.

Never said it was, never said I want it to be. I am just picking a single feature from there and giving some vague ideas on how to adapt it in a non-intrusive manner. I would still appreciate some elaboration on why people think it is a bad idea.

Hi everyone. I would like to put forward the idea of having a kind of “node/guild wars” (like those done in Black Desert) using instanced open world maps as an alternative/complementary to WvW and see what GW2 players (especially WvW players) and ANet staff think about that.

1) They would give the WvW fans infinitely more variety and objectives.

2) They could be implemented in a way that does NOT disrupt regular open world/PVE players (only on specific map instances, “for players that sign up for them”)

3) They would give lots of guilds something to work on as a group/compete

4) They would make the whole open-world map relevant and alive again.

5) I can guess that the implementation would not be trivial, especially in terms of mechanics. There are rewards to be thought, how to time a node war event and many other details, but at least content-wise, the maps are there.

PS: mods feel free to move the post if you feel it is more suited to another sub-forum (WvW? somewhere else?)

Disclaimer: I might be editing this post to reflect any additional thoughts on this.

Important clarification: This idea DOES NOT IMPLY Open World PvP

Some more details on how I had it pictured in my mind:
(a) Guild wars over “nodes”, i.e. territories in the map would take place in separate map instances, like with WvW. Only map content assets would be re-used.
(b) Either constantly, or in scheduled times, a “node” opens up for claiming by guilds. This could be done in a fashion similar to WvW as it is now, with more features possibly added along the way, as ANet sees fit obviously.
© Rewards could be a small increase in drops from events, or more karma. I would go as far as suggesting specific guild crafting stations/vendors that allow specific skins, but I can see that becoming a bone of contention. A guild banner flying over the node could be a nice “prestige” boost for the occupying guild. Or [put your idea for rewards that are not disruptive but give enough motivation for guilds here]