Guild Wars 2

RyuDragnier.9476:

frans.8092:

Then it shouldn’t be possible to block an attack you can’t see coming.

Except the game would be going on the assumption that we KNOW an attack is coming when we blocked something. You don’t spam a block move or use it without knowing something is about to come your way.

Knowing that an attack is coming doesn’t make it any more realistic to be able to block an that unseen attack from behind you then it is to remain invisible while hitting someone’s sword.

… You don’t know if you’re dodging perfectly or not because you can’t see what the enemy is attempting to do most of the time ….

If you are talking about stealth/backstab, just moving around and changing direction makes it a lot more difficult to land a backstab. Just by kiting properly you are taking back control. By kiting properly the thief no longer knows that his attack will land on your back or that his efforts will be voided. You regain (some) control.

Could have a middle ground where they only get 1 shot at using their Stealth Attack, and if they miss/get blocked they dont get revealed but their AA goes back to normal.

I have to say I find this issue most annoying of P/D thieves.. can see their shots spamming through the air air as I dodge, it even gives away their exact location but there is nothing at all I can do about it meaning proactive play becomes impossible. The only solution is to wait till they actially hit you then dodge, so you only take the first 1-3 hits intead of all 5. Thats fine and all, but it would be nice to be able to actively defend myself instead of having to do it reactively.

Okaishi.8320:

It’s amazing how people think this would be a good change that would balance out the thief. It will do nothing less than destroy any dagger based builds, mainly D/D which already has so many counters.

With this change, every time the thief manages to stealth you just have to do 1 thing: pop aegis or a blind and you can just sit back and wait while the thief either reveals himself or waits out the duration of the stealth and does no damage at all, while any of your AoE/cleave can still hurt him significantly. Counterplay to the thief will be so laughably easy because a good player can punish a revealed thief really fast. Basically you’ll be locking the thief out of its burst, and without it they might as well not exist.

Suggesting this idea or even agreeing to it just shows how many people have absolutely no clue about thief mechanics or have the insight to see how destructive these proposed changes would be to the thief class.

Something that could use some changes is the easy access on stealth on D/P. If anything needs more counters then that’s the weaponset to look at.

i am very happy to read this – just because i don’t have to write how crazy “blocking gives revealed” is! Pop Aegis or use a block skill (all last around 2 sec) and stand on one position – maybe write an emote during the next 3-4 seconds – and wait. the only advantage i’ll see all non stealth classes now can anticipate the next action of the thief/mesmer with full attention ….but wait…..they have aegis/block…..they can go brainafk -.-’

Cufufalating.8479:

Could have a middle ground where they only get 1 shot at using their Stealth Attack, and if they miss/get blocked they dont get revealed but their AA goes back to normal.

I have to say I find this issue most annoying of P/D thieves.. can see their shots spamming through the air air as I dodge, it even gives away their exact location but there is nothing at all I can do about it meaning proactive play becomes impossible. The only solution is to wait till they actially hit you then dodge, so you only take the first 1-3 hits intead of all 5. Thats fine and all, but it would be nice to be able to actively defend myself instead of having to do it reactively.

Omg no please I really don’t want p/d idiots to reveal themselves. I always have a blast making them shoot themselves in the face 10 times because they are mashing on 1 into a reflect.

Lol I had no idea it did that :P guess I assumed theyd get revealed if they hit themselves.

Makes me want to try it, shame rangers dont have the best reflecting :O

Cufufalating.8479:

Lol I had no idea it did that :P guess I assumed theyd get revealed if they hit themselves.

Makes me want to try it, shame rangers dont have the best reflecting :O

Yea it’s because when I reflect it becomes my projectile, thus it’s not them doing damage it’s me and they don’t become revealed. If there is a friendly field it’ll also get the effects from that etc. etc.

Cufufalating.8479:

Could have a middle ground where they only get 1 shot at using their Stealth Attack, and if they miss/get blocked they dont get revealed but their AA goes back to normal.

I have to say I find this issue most annoying of P/D thieves.. can see their shots spamming through the air air as I dodge, it even gives away their exact location but there is nothing at all I can do about it meaning proactive play becomes impossible. The only solution is to wait till they actially hit you then dodge, so you only take the first 1-3 hits intead of all 5. Thats fine and all, but it would be nice to be able to actively defend myself instead of having to do it reactively.

Tip: if you are a mesmer, let your clones eat the Stealth Attack.

Still, that’s one of the main reasons why P/D is even more deadly than D/x sometimes.

Aberrant.6749:

hooma.9642:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Chaos.3579:

I agree totally to the idea that blocking,evading should un stealth the stealthed player .however Not miss(blind),or invulnerable.

Also there should be a compensation. Such as no revealed debuff on the player. Or AT least a smaller timer on the revealed. Maybe 1second revealed instead of 4.

This is a bad idea, you aren’t suppose to compensate someone for their failure. Its like missed/block/evaded skills not going on cooldown because they didn’t land.

This post is quite ironic.

Really now, tell me why.

Because this thread is basically asking for compensation for when the players failed to stop the thief from entering stealth in the first place… the only one that can not be countered is blinding powder.

No one is talking about cloak and dagger. Most of the complaints are about D/P thief.

You can counter bp->hs…

This is very generic. You mean some classes have options to deal with it, not counter it. Note the some classes part. Regardless, they will not be able to keep up with the reapplication of bp+hs combo since they are bound to static cds while thief is not.

No, some classes can str8 up counter it over and over. No, not every class can do this, but should every single class have a hard counter to everything on every other class?

The amount of ini lost when you counter bp->hs is very harsh. It’s not like they’ll be able to do another one right away.

just for your information. blindpowder shots a projectile that blinds on impact. so even not standing right in the face of the thief your “counter” will likely miss, cause blind, except u have zerkerstance, googles or used both shield skills on engi. even i u blocked + projectile reflection, the used heartseeker will very likely remove blind.

and then comes the whole blinding powder -> heartseeker -> steal/ shadowstep/ teleport combo. that isnt interruptable except by some other very few skills, like gale, on long cooldown. problem on all the skills that are for knockdowns or interrupts -> activation time nearly as long as heartseeker -> cant interrupt heartseeker with skill only with assumption. as other already pointed out, few seconds later the same combo starts again… so no, entering stealth isnt reliable interruptable on d/p! u can only delay it if u manage to stop it. thats the whole thief problem.. u can only delay all of his attacks/combos cause initiative.

other gc are balanced with hardhitting skills on longer cooldown that match some percentage of your recharge of defensiveskills.

I’ll do thinks like mes aa knowing that she’ll be blinded then use gs5… you can deal with the blind and it does make things a little harder, it doesn’t make it impossible without a reflect or googles or whatever.

You’re complaining that if a thief pops utilities plus uses ini that it’s harder to counter and that’s not ok? I find that to be just fine…

Ini does regen… but stopping a bp+hs cripples the thief far more than just stopping two skills on any other class (which also come off of cooldowns)

so u can make 1 aa + gs5 if he drops bp and before hs? reliable? i doubt it.

oh and u say wasting gs5 cooldown for bp+hs combo and not shadowrefuge is worth the init he lost for bp and maybe hs? sure. and dont forget that bp has a delay so he can still use hs to stealh

hard to counter ranged stealth combo? how about impossible for the most classes/builds?

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

This needs to happen,

Too long have we been blocking attack after attack while the thief or Mesmer or other class just sits in stealth like nothing happened, and just continue on attacking until the block ends, while still being stealthed.

Any and all players that are stealthed should be revealed for the normal revealed time on blocks. A block is a hit, however, It doesn’t count as a hit, this needs to be changed.

Thoughts?

Edit: Removed the small section about blinds/misses/evades.

Does that mean when I cloak and dagger and it is blocked I will still gain stealth?

hooma.9642:

Aberrant.6749:

hooma.9642:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Aberrant.6749:

Aza.2105:

Chaos.3579:

I agree totally to the idea that blocking,evading should un stealth the stealthed player .however Not miss(blind),or invulnerable.

Also there should be a compensation. Such as no revealed debuff on the player. Or AT least a smaller timer on the revealed. Maybe 1second revealed instead of 4.

This is a bad idea, you aren’t suppose to compensate someone for their failure. Its like missed/block/evaded skills not going on cooldown because they didn’t land.

This post is quite ironic.

Really now, tell me why.

Because this thread is basically asking for compensation for when the players failed to stop the thief from entering stealth in the first place… the only one that can not be countered is blinding powder.

No one is talking about cloak and dagger. Most of the complaints are about D/P thief.

You can counter bp->hs…

This is very generic. You mean some classes have options to deal with it, not counter it. Note the some classes part. Regardless, they will not be able to keep up with the reapplication of bp+hs combo since they are bound to static cds while thief is not.

No, some classes can str8 up counter it over and over. No, not every class can do this, but should every single class have a hard counter to everything on every other class?

The amount of ini lost when you counter bp->hs is very harsh. It’s not like they’ll be able to do another one right away.

just for your information. blindpowder shots a projectile that blinds on impact. so even not standing right in the face of the thief your “counter” will likely miss, cause blind, except u have zerkerstance, googles or used both shield skills on engi. even i u blocked + projectile reflection, the used heartseeker will very likely remove blind.

and then comes the whole blinding powder -> heartseeker -> steal/ shadowstep/ teleport combo. that isnt interruptable except by some other very few skills, like gale, on long cooldown. problem on all the skills that are for knockdowns or interrupts -> activation time nearly as long as heartseeker -> cant interrupt heartseeker with skill only with assumption. as other already pointed out, few seconds later the same combo starts again… so no, entering stealth isnt reliable interruptable on d/p! u can only delay it if u manage to stop it. thats the whole thief problem.. u can only delay all of his attacks/combos cause initiative.

other gc are balanced with hardhitting skills on longer cooldown that match some percentage of your recharge of defensiveskills.

I’ll do thinks like mes aa knowing that she’ll be blinded then use gs5… you can deal with the blind and it does make things a little harder, it doesn’t make it impossible without a reflect or googles or whatever.

You’re complaining that if a thief pops utilities plus uses ini that it’s harder to counter and that’s not ok? I find that to be just fine…

Ini does regen… but stopping a bp+hs cripples the thief far more than just stopping two skills on any other class (which also come off of cooldowns)

so u can make 1 aa + gs5 if he drops bp and before hs? reliable? i doubt it.

oh and u say wasting gs5 cooldown for bp+hs combo and not shadowrefuge is worth the init he lost for bp and maybe hs? sure. and dont forget that bp has a delay so he can still use hs to stealh

hard to counter ranged stealth combo? how about impossible for the most classes/builds?

Fairly reliably. Obviously it’s somewhat dependant on what else I’m doing, but the 3 attacks hit pretty rapidly. Curtain works Vs. SR as well so if you’re using a sword/focus and gs (common for group stuffs on mes)…

Some things are very hard to counter on some classes or with some builds. Seems like it’s working as intended.