Guild Wars 2

keep this bumped until we get an answer =D

Sarrs.4831:

…
and you use the wrong weapons and a few wrong trinkets for the discussion
….

The distinction between Celestial and non-Celestial, when it comes to how grindy the set is, is trivial. Stop trying to defend your position with this.quote]

actually not

The point of going celestial is mixing with few other things to get a decent crit % (thus the sigil etc….).

That is why if they go on with this nonsense they have to offer an armor switch (and trust me celestial would disappear from the game).

For the grindind….did u ever play any mmorpg?
The first thing they do is making sure people progression doesn t get deleted…

I had quite enough with fractal delete, flamekissed and now the ascended equipment…..

Those stuff happens in BETAS not in a finished game.
Are we a test server?

It starts to be extremely unprofessional and Beyond ridiculous.

LordByron.8369:

The point of going celestial is mixing with few other things to get a decent crit % (thus the sigil etc….).

So you’re just exploiting the crit damage on the set, which is getting nerfed because it’s an outlier on the set. You’re the exact target of the nerf.

LordByron.8369:

For the grindind….did u ever play any mmorpg?
The first thing they do is making sure people progression doesn t get deleted…

Except:
1. Your Celestial gear is still there. It’s not getting deleted. It’s there and it’s gonna be there, and still Celestial, until the end of time (or the servers shut down whichever comes first).
2. Themepark MMOs like WoW invalidate gear which has been grinded for constantly with each patch release.

LordByron.8369:

I had quite enough with fractal delete, flamekissed and now the ascended equipment…..

Those stuff happens in BETAS not in a finished game.
Are we a test server?

It starts to be extremely unprofessional and Beyond ridiculous.

MMO developers goof like this all the time. While the recent rate of goofing might be higher than average, it isn’t a non-occurence.

Sarrs.4831:

…

ROFL.
Building is now exploting

Rune/buffs and sigil choice is a CHOICE.
You get something giving up something other.
I could get a chill on swap instead of +5% crit chance…..

Not to mention crit damage comes form POWER…….but its clear you don t have idea of what we are talking

If i get the same crit% and crit damage of a zerker i still deal halfway between PVT and zerk. (and i can t get those numbers unless i sacrifice lot of stuff that is the point of “BUILDS” and customizations and BALANCE).

The point is clear:
Nerf aimed at TOP DPS will hit LOW DPS harder…..

Balanced SET will have LESS DPS compared to TANKY set as a result.

Makes sense totally…

Also throwing sentences like “it Always happens mmorpgs” its even more pointless….
It doesn t …..

It happened very few time in few mmorpg and had huge repercussions….in gw2 seems to be the rule to remove progress from random players…..and this is extremely wrong.

Now a better question:
Why you are promoting unbalance? what harm would you get from wupwup users to get a stat change? or leaving it as it was before as a mid ground between PVT and zerk (full celestial was already behind PVT, but could be adjusted with proper builds obviously giving up other things)
I have a couple ideas…..that is exactly the reason this community is considered toxic.

LordByron.8369:

Now a better question:
Why you are promoting unbalance?
I have a couple ideas…..

I doubt this discussion can go any further if you’re going to accuse me of having ulterior motives. I want to present the numbers and the truth; nothing more than that.

Sarrs.4831:

LordByron.8369:

Now a better question:
Why you are promoting unbalance?
I have a couple ideas…..

I doubt this discussion can go any further if you’re going to accuse me of having ulterior motives. I want to present the numbers and the truth; nothing more than that.

Sarrs.4831:

So you’re just exploiting the crit damage on the set, which is getting nerfed because it’s an outlier on the set. You’re the exact target of the nerf.
.

You should read your messages….before trying that road….

Taldren.7523:

The Celestial Armor set has 19% Critical Damage on it and if they do as they propose (and assuming 16 = 1%) it will only have 8.75% after. That is over half our critical damage removed because Berserker was too powerful in PvE.

No, it’s simply unacceptable, they’re not going to do that, I don’t believe it.
The set is the actually the most tedious one to build, it would be crazy to nerf it like that.

LordByron.8369:

You should read your messages….before trying that road….

I’m 99% certain that I’ve already used that word in this discussion. I don’t mean exploit in the sense of “you are exploiting the game (and should be banned)” I mean “you are using a specific factor of the rules to your advantage”. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Sarrs.4831:

LordByron.8369:

You should read your messages….before trying that road….

I’m 99% certain that I’ve already used that word in this discussion. I don’t mean exploit in the sense of “you are exploiting the game (and should be banned)” I mean “you are using a specific factor of the rules to your advantage”. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

The sentence was wrong on 2 levels…

The nerf is not aimed at balanced builds.
Since you Always forget to put POWER in the equation.

You see OMG XX% crit damage OP 11!!!!1!!!!!
Full celestial base damage < full PVT already…..i ll have to repeat it forever.

Celestial mixed STILL is halfway between zerker AND pvt. Giving up lot of thoughness, vitality AND utilities (sigils).

CELESTIAL sees 0 uses in PVE speedruns it exists mostly in WWW where was the same as mixing pieces.

Link me a proof the nerf is aimed at WWW balanced builds

P.S. for your info (meteor shower/tornado trick)
-BEST PVT damage with staff is around 2000-2500
-FULL ZERK EXOTIC does 9-11.000
-Celestial (asc) MIXED with zerker does 3-5000
-Full celestial doesn t crit much and does 3000 max

LordByron.8369:

The sentence was wrong on 2 levels…

The nerf is not aimed at balanced builds.
Since you Always forget to put POWER in the equation.

In my equations? Because absolute damage is irrelevant. If your DPS is getting nerfed “below bunker levels” it’s because your DPS was already junk.

LordByron.8369:

You see OMG XX% crit damage OP 11!!!!1!!!!!
Full celestial base damage < full PVT already…..i ll have to repeat it forever.

Celestial mixed STILL is halfway between zerker AND pvt.

I don’t know if I’ve actually said that it’s OP. I’ve said that the intent of the set is “gentle generalist” rather than “take me for the crit damage”, that the current ratio of critical damage to other stats undermines its intent, and that the Ferocity change will address that problem.

Absolute DPS is irrelevant. I’ve already conceded that I’d be more or less okay with them beefing up the ratio if the set ends up being underpar as a result of these changes, but again, high crit damage undermines the intent of the set.

CELESTIAL sees 0 uses in PVE speedruns it exists mostly in WWW where was the same as mixing pieces.

…All stat sets other than Zerker see 0 use in PVE speedruns (defining speedrun as: maximising damage output to shorten the run). If you’re not bringing Zerker to the party you’re performing underpar.

Secondly, in a speedrun, even if the other DPS sets were on par with Zerks you shouldn’t ever be running Celestial because Celestial spends itemisation on defensive stats. If you are running Celestial pieces (again, you’ll be running it exclusively for the crit damage) then the design of Celestial has failed.

Link me a proof the nerf is aimed at WWW pr balanced builds

I don’t have any quotes for you. Wait until ANet posts in this thread.

LordByron.8369:

P.S. for your info (meteor shower/tornado trick)
-BEST PVT damage with staff is around 2000-2500
-FULL ZERK EXOTIC does 9-11.000
-Celestial (asc) MIXED with zerker does 3-5000
-Full celestial doesn t crit much and does 3000 max

Looks like you should just be wearing Zerk’s rather than Celestial, then.

Seriously, I’m okay with the Celestial ratio moving from 5/8 to 6/8. I don’t have a problem with that.

LordByron.8369:

The sentence was wrong on 2 levels…

The nerf is not aimed at balanced builds.
Since you Always forget to put POWER in the equation.

This sentence is wrong too. You say the “nerf is aimed at balanced builds”. But if you rewatch the cast, you’ll see that the FIRST thing they mention about the critical changes is :

Crit Damage – stat ratios compared to other stats are all over the place. You get way more crit dmg from your trinkets than from other pieces of gear so it is more efficient to stack crit dmg for them. By adding this new stat, we are able to normalize critical damage with other stats.

And then only they mention that it’ll result in a 10% DPS loss for zerk gear.

Sarrs.4831:

Seriously, I’m okay with the Celestial ratio moving from 5/8 to 6/8. I don’t have a problem with that.

Lets avoid useless stuff and start from here.
Celestial is clearly an unintended backfire.

Crit damage in celestial doesn t push the damage so much even if you mix it.

If zerk will lose 10% overall dps, celestial should lose overal 5% since PVT is losing almost any.

But even so celestial would possibly get behind PVT….but at least wold not be a so knee jerk nerf.

if today celestial has crit damage equal to zerker, they should make it ferocity equal to zerker even post patch.

If they nerf crit damage and then reduce of 60% ferocity on celestial sets they double nerf a set with no reason.

LordByron.8369:

Sarrs.4831:

Seriously, I’m okay with the Celestial ratio moving from 5/8 to 6/8. I don’t have a problem with that.

Lets avoid useless stuff and start from here.
Celestial is clearly an unintended backfire.

Crit damage in celestial doesn t push the damage so much even if you mix it.

If zerk will lose 10% overall dps, celestial should lose overal 5% since PVT is losing almost any.

But even so celestial would possibly get behind PVT….but at least wold not be a so knee jerk nerf.

if today celestial has crit damage equal to zerker, they should make it ferocity equal to zerker even post patch.

If they nerf crit damage and then reduce of 60% ferocity on celestial sets they double nerf a set with no reason.

Why is it useless?
This is incorrect. They explicitly stated that the ratios are out of whack on certain pieces of gear.
It does. That’s why they’re changing it; they explicitly stated that the ratios are out of whack on certain pieces of gear.
It does. Condition damage.
Condition damage.
This would defeat the point of Celestial and the point of the change.
They do do it with reason. The ratios are out of whack on certain pieces of gear.

Not entirely certain why I’m still replying to you because it seems you’re not getting the point.

Sarrs.4831:

It does. Condition damage.
Condition damage.
This would defeat the point of Celestial and the point of the change.
They do do it with reason. The ratios are out of whack on certain pieces of gear.

Not entirely certain why I’m still replying to you because it seems you’re not getting the point.

now its clear you are not entitled to speak about it.
Overall DPS will be CONDITION included worse than PVT.

When taking condition damage you should consider that out of X skills some are direct damage and other are cond damage

really few have both (that means that cond damage OR crit damage and power goes wasted on more than 50% skills thus those stats impact is way lower)
And that is why condition damage doesn t cover the POWER loss already.

Figure it when they double nerf crit…

Stop theorycrafting try it in game
There is a reason why celstial is not popular already.

LordByron.8369:

now its clear you are not entitled to speak about it.
Overall DPS will be CONDITION included worse than PVT.

gimme dem maffs

When taking condition damage you should consider that out of X skills some are direct damage and other are cond damage

really few have both (that means that cond damage OR crit damage and power goes wasted on more than 50% skills thus those stats impact is way lower)
And that is why condition damage doesn t cover the POWER loss already.

Figure it when they double nerf crit…

they’re actually fairly frequent; most classes in the game have some weapon spread that benefits from both condition damage and power boosts

the weapon/trait set that you linked before isn’t really one of them because you don’t have the bleed uptime, much burn uptime, sigil of doom, etc etc. it’s really not a very offensively directed build at all so i’m wondering if maybe that’s the cause of your low damage

Stop theorycrafting try it in game
There is a reason why celstial is not popular already.

there are reasons lots of sets aren’t popular in game, i don’t see you marching on the forums to get shaman’s, magi’s, apothecary’s and settler’s buffed

Sarrs.4831:

they’re actually fairly frequent; most classes in the game have some weapon spread that benefits from both condition damage and power boosts

NO profession has 100% skills dealing both condition AND direct
That results in wasting at least 50% condition or power/crit/ferocity stats and a reason why stats should be higher to match….

it’s really not a very offensively directed build at all so i’m wondering if maybe that’s the cause of your low damage

Sarrs.4831:

you use the wrong weapons and a few wrong trinkets for the discussion.
(NOTE: ZOJJIA/BERSERKER)

Sarrs.4831:

So you’re just exploiting the crit damage on the set, which is getting nerfed because it’s an outlier on the set. You’re the exact target of the nerf.

Sarrs.4831:

Yeah, and your overall damage doesn’t get nerfed more than a Zerker. It only gets nerfed nearly as much as a Zerker if you’re not using conditions at all- In which case you bought the wrong armor set.

Holden.9273:

Will Full celestial gear you would lose 15% of your damage.

This were fast calculations so i could made a mistake, but numbers seems to be right.

You are totally trolling

LordByron.8369:

NO profession has 100% skills dealing both condition AND direct
That results in wasting at least 50% condition or power/crit/ferocity stats and a reason why stats should be higher to match….

I didn’t say they have skills with both conditions and power coefficients to challenge full-power weapons. I said that there are builds which can benefit from a strong mix of both power and condition damage.

it’s really not a very offensively directed build at all so i’m wondering if maybe that’s the cause of your low damage

Sarrs.4831:

you use the wrong weapons and a few wrong trinkets for the discussion.
(NOTE: ZOJJIA/BERSERKER)

Sarrs.4831:

So you’re just exploiting the crit damage on the set, which is getting nerfed because it’s an outlier on the set. You’re the exact target of the nerf.

Sarrs.4831:

Yeah, and your overall damage doesn’t get nerfed more than a Zerker. It only gets nerfed nearly as much as a Zerker if you’re not using conditions at all- In which case you bought the wrong armor set.

Holden.9273:

Will Full celestial gear you would lose 15% of your damage.

This were fast calculations so i could made a mistake, but numbers seems to be right.

You are totally trolling

Can’t offer counters to their arguments? TROLLING

LordByron.8369:

You are totally trolling

You are the one who first talked numbers, and then when you realized that the numbers actually work against you, you’re now telling people to “don’t math it, try it ingame!”. And now people are trolling, ofc.

Because if you don’t have a point, you can still attack the other one?

For the record, the enhanced critical damage was needed just for the damage to actually reach generic generalist level.

ThiBash.5634:

+1% boon duration does sound like a good alternative.

On paper, yes, but Boon duration is only useful in considerable increments and it would not make up for the diminished damage of Celestial. An increase to stats would be more effective.

ThiBash.5634:

For the record, the enhanced critical damage was needed just for the damage to actually reach generic generalist level.

Not sure what exactly you’re addressing.

If it’s that entire hullabaloo up there, I think Byron’s pretty much just mad because he built a set to exploit the broken crit damage amount and got caught with his pants down.

At any rate, I dunno if I’d mind pushing Celestial’s ratio up to 6/8 from 5/8, but would need more data.

Now that I think about it, I wonder how sigil changes will affect Celestial; particularly crit:condi sigils.

Sarrs.4831:

There are reasons lots of sets aren’t popular in game, i don’t see you marching on the forums to get shaman’s, magi’s, apothecary’s and settler’s buffed

For the record, none of the unpopular sets that you have mentioned are getting undeserved nerfs. Also, of these, Magi’s is the only set that is objectively underpowered – its stat combination is basically unviable except maybe…. MAYBE on very specific, mixed sets (and probably not even then). Apothecary’s and Settler’s are both respectable options for condi builds (particularly Ranger condi builds); I would go as far as to say that the strength of Apothecary’s and Settler’s are directly tied to the viability of the Ranger profession. Furthermore, both of these sets are getting indirect buffs because of the diminished strength of Power builds through the critical damage nerf. Shaman’s… I don’t know. It could have uses in mix sets with Cleric’s.

But I’ll reassert the point – all, of these, like Celestial, are unpopular and often considered mediocre. The difference is that, unlike Celestial, none of these are getting nerfed. Therefore, their status is not urgent like that of Celestial.

And there can be no justification for the Celestial nerf. It was not overpowered. It was not outperforming other sets. The high critical damage stat that it had was required just to allow the set to inflict tolerable damage with its pittance of a Power stat. It WILL be affected by the critical damage nerf more than any other set, unless it is given some form of compensation. That’s not up for debate; it’s been evidenced several times over through calculations in this and other threads. Without intervention on Anet’s part, it will be the victim of collateral damage – and it will be just as bad as Magi’s.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

For the record, none of the unpopular sets that you have mentioned are getting undeserved nerfs. Also, of these, Magi’s is the only set that is objectively underpowered – its stat combination is basically unviable except maybe…. MAYBE on very specific, mixed sets (and probably not even then). Apothecary’s and Settler’s are both respectable options for condi builds (particularly Ranger condi builds); I would go as far as to say that the strength of Apothecary’s and Settler’s are directly tied to the viability of the Ranger profession. Furthermore, both of these sets are getting indirect buffs because of the diminished strength of Power builds through the critical damage nerf. Shaman’s… I don’t know. It could have uses in mix sets with Cleric’s.

But I’ll reassert the point – all, of these, like Celestial, are unpopular and often considered mediocre. The difference is that, unlike Celestial, none of these are getting nerfed. Therefore, their status is not urgent like that of Celestial.

And there can be no justification for the Celestial nerf. It was not overpowered. It was not outperforming other sets. The high critical damage stat that it had was required just to allow the set to inflict tolerable damage with its pittance of a Power stat. It WILL be affected by the critical damage nerf more than any other set, unless it is given some form of compensation. That’s not up for debate; it’s been evidenced several times over through calculations in this and other threads. Without intervention on Anet’s part, it will be the victim of collateral damage – and it will be just as bad as Magi’s.

I’m not entirely convinced that it’ll be pushed to worthlessness, with my calculations. It’ll certainly be hurt, but I don’t know exactly how much by, and I don’t think it’ll be an amount to push the set into irrelevance- Unless you were using mix pieces for the crit damage and the crit damage alone; but, you probably already know that that’s my position. Without numbers on appropriate condition damage, it’s difficult for me to really agree- That’s dependent on sigils/class/traits, so it’s hard to see where that gets pushed into irrelevance and where it doesn’t.

Shaman straight could possibly be used for a Poisonshare Thief. Leeching Poisons has a pretty solid Healing Power coefficient, and so does Skale Venom- To the point where Skale can heal 1200 with a Settler’s Amulet/Carrion Jewel per hit, and other poisons heal something like 700.

I don’t think Celestial will be the hardest hit set by this change. Mathematically, Assassin’s takes the largest hit proportionally, and the Crit Damage is the main draw of Valkyrie’s when used with traits and skills which assure crits(Hidden Killer, Arcane spells) so I think that takes the biggest hit when “used as intended”.

Pretty headachey at the moment so I can’t really offer the best responses. In short; I want to figure out what the condi impact is. Might do that sometime soon, might not, depending on whether it (the headache) sticks around.

Guys whether or not celestials should have higher than normal crit dam is not the issue. It should not be players responsibility to guess developer’s intend, period.

Players make decision to purchase or craft a gear based on what currently is the stat on that gear. It should not be player’s responsibility to try to 2nd guess these stats or predict what the developers might do in the future. Anet NEEDS to remember this when they make a decision to change the stats on a piece of gear.

Just like how Anet gives us a free re-spec when they drastically change the talents for a class, they should let us reselect the gear stats when they decided they want to make major change to the stat distribution or the function of a stat. I believe it is only reasonable that Anet allow us to do this for all soul or account bound gear with crit dam on it, not just celestials.

Agreed. People are getting into the weeds of theorycrafting stats, but the real crux of this issue is the good faith relationship between the gamer and developer. One could also look to their stated design philosophy to diversify builds and equipment build outs and how this only further hurts that initiative.

Specifically, Celestial crafting is unique in every sense compared to other prefixes. A uniqueness exacerbated by the ascended crafting process. Those of us who have completed or nearly completed ascended celestial armor in good faith that it was going to remain stable as there was no indication it was going to change.

Somewhere, ANet understands this, cause with other major design changes there has been compensation or ample warning in some form (See: Glory removal & MF changes). As it is, most people took the MF changes to celestial in relative stride, have forgotten about it, or never knew it had it.

In the end, because of this “breach” of good faith, ANet either needs to assure Celestial gear owners that the gear will either be compensated in some genuine way, or that we will be able to choose a different prefix like with MF changes.

My 2 copper anyway.

Bump up,
cause we DESERVE an answer

I recently told my best friend to gear full celestial. Now i’m trying to convince her that YOU can’t do this nerf like that, that YOU’ll do something to balance, that you can’t nerf eles on one hand and claim that you’re trying to help them on the other. Please don’t make me a liar.

I don’t use Celestial gear, but I would be kittenED if I spent all that time making it(why does it take more gold/time again?), and then it recieved a heavier nerf than any other set.

I like the scaling change for crit damage, but celestial should definitely be compensated with either the doubling of power, the increase of all stats by a small amount, or adding boon/condition duration.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

On paper, yes, but Boon duration is only useful in considerable increments and it would not make up for the diminished damage of Celestial. An increase to stats would be more effective.

I suspect +Concentration is subject to the same whole-number rounding as +Expertise is?

Sarrs.4831:

ThiBash.5634:

For the record, the enhanced critical damage was needed just for the damage to actually reach generic generalist level.

Not sure what exactly you’re addressing.

What I’m adressing is the fact that you keep stating that celestial shouldn’t deal much damage, but that the damage level should be ‘average’. The only way to have it deal ‘average’ damage is by having the current crit level. Even with the high crit, the damage is below that of soldier’s. It takes boons to actually get ahead of soldier’s, a defensive set.

Soldiers is not a defensive set, it has Power, the primary offensive stat, as main. Cleric is defensive.

frans.8092:

Soldiers is not a defensive set, it has Power, the primary offensive stat, as main. Cleric is defensive.

Uh, Soldier’s is like THE defensive set, and Dire as well.

Stx.4857:

frans.8092:

Soldiers is not a defensive set, it has Power, the primary offensive stat, as main. Cleric is defensive.

Uh, Soldier’s is like THE defensive set, and Dire as well.

I’d think Sentinel’s and Giver’s are a lot more defensive. When you label Soldier’s as “The defensive set” I imagine you do so because it is offering a good mix of offence and defence. Just like Dire.

frans.8092:

Stx.4857:

frans.8092:

Soldiers is not a defensive set, it has Power, the primary offensive stat, as main. Cleric is defensive.

Uh, Soldier’s is like THE defensive set, and Dire as well.

I’d think Sentinel’s and Giver’s are a lot more defensive. When you label Soldier’s as “The defensive set” I imagine you do so because it is offering a good mix of offence and defence. Just like Dire.

Well, I kind of forgot about Sentinel’s. But anyway, Cleric’s is only used by a select few builds on a select few professions that can actually make use of healing power. And other than those, Soldier’s is usually as defensive as you can get.

If you want a “mix of offense and defense” I would think of something like Knight’s or Valkyrie gear.

231 replies. 5 pages.

On page 3? I don’t think so.

Each day we don’t get a reply to this thread makes me more concerned. Even a simple, “We realize this is a problem with our intended change and are looking into a solution” would be nice at this point.

Guys, stop wasting your time arguing about celestial when it is an absolute truth that it was, is, and will be rubbish gear.

it was an alternative to mixing gear for people that used to slightly change build.
Having celestial + another set would help testing and refining your build with affordable costs without having to get a third set.

Now aside those 2-3 that obviously trolls since say something and its opposite in few posts (as i linked).

Its clear they are doing a huge mistake….

And having wupwup become less efficient than valkirye+knight+Pvt etc because they want to keep some sort of aethetic balance with number is totally unprofessional.

And NO REASON was given to do that.

4 threads also…..and nobody got even a reply.

CDI is a LIE.

bigmonto.4215:

Guys whether or not celestials should have higher than normal crit dam is not the issue. It should not be players responsibility to guess developer’s intend, period.

Players make decision to purchase or craft a gear based on what currently is the stat on that gear. It should not be player’s responsibility to try to 2nd guess these stats or predict what the developers might do in the future. Anet NEEDS to remember this when they make a decision to change the stats on a piece of gear.

Just like how Anet gives us a free re-spec when they drastically change the talents for a class, they should let us reselect the gear stats when they decided they want to make major change to the stat distribution or the function of a stat. I believe it is only reasonable that Anet allow us to do this for all soul or account bound gear with crit dam on it, not just celestials.

agree. not the player’s repsonsibility to guess if the stats a developer put into game is what they indended….especially 1.5 years after the fact.

the theory crafting guessing-game is an irrelevant point (we don’t know how the numbers work out until its all in place).
BUT significantly changing an armorset’s stats without compensation (free stat-set change) would be a terrible move…….especially with this change occurring so long after ascended crafting was introduced. if celestial takes as large of a hit as is expected…..i hope Anet does the right thing.

Asumita.2174:

Guys, stop wasting your time arguing about celestial when it is an absolute truth that it was, is, and will be rubbish gear.

What’s wrong about wanting rubbish gear to not end up being even more rubbish?

If they do it like they said in the livestream, Celestial will lose much more crit damage than Zerker.

A mediocre set will take a harder nerf than the set intended to nerf – good old Anet-balancing.

Why you all so worried about your celestial stuff? Unless i missed something GIANT that extra crit damage would not have made up for having lower than average power AND lower than average precision…

That being said, this same incoming nerf has me about to leave the game cause I spent a month worth of laurels on the assassin stat, who’s entire point was build around crit more, use crit damage more…so i might be even more screwed than the celestial people. This after dropping $100 on flamekissed armor (I’m going to wait to see how badly their art department fails on it cause they havent released a single new armor set since launch that grabbed my attention anything like human t3 cultural that at least 1 asuran npc wears…i hate u all), and the dragonite farming that I’ve posted so many time i’d rather farm gold for (in dungeons for me..off-topic), the dying story (sylvari on rag was old after queens jubilee)…and other stuff i’ve since been blessed to forget…

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE gimme something solid here on just how badly I’m about to get boned out of a month worth of dailies, and so many hours hating my play time in the same old metas just to keep up with friends who didnt choose the ones that will get hit the hardest…this and please look at my long post history of gripes about asymmetry and armor designs for norn females BEFORE you make the flamekiss redo is all i really ask

Inimicus.7162:

Why you all so worried about your celestial stuff?

The same reason why you are worrying about the assassin set. Effectiveness aside, we also spend a long time grinding for the celestial set, now it seems it will be nerf a lot more than the zerker or the Sin set. It is not a set meant to be nerf to begin with. You can say celestial is basically a casualty of war between Anet and PVE meta (which Anet completely miss the mark).

This is why I say sure, nerf away. Just allow us to re-select the stats on our ascended gear (yes zerker, sin set included). Since it is not the our (player’s) responsibility to guess what Anet will do when we make a set. At least give us a choice to switch stats if Anet decide to make large changes.

No, precision may well scale a bit better then it used to do in comparison.

frans.8092:

No, precision may well scale a bit better then it used to do in comparison.

What is your reason for that? And for which mode?

With crit damage nerf, precision will get a hit too (of course not nearly as bad as crit dam). Power, will be even more important. Power is already the most effective stat for dam (in pve), it will be even more so in after the crit damage nerf.

bigmonto.4215:

Inimicus.7162:

Why you all so worried about your celestial stuff?

The same reason why you are worrying about the assassin set. Effectiveness aside, we also spend a long time grinding for the celestial set, now it seems it will be nerf a lot more than the zerker or the Sin set. It is not a set meant to be nerf to begin with. You can say celestial is basically a casualty of war between Anet and PVE meta (which Anet completely miss the mark).

This is why I say sure, nerf away. Just allow us to re-select the stats on our ascended gear (yes zerker, sin set included). Since it is not the our (player’s) responsibility to guess what Anet will do when we make a set. At least give us a choice to switch stats if Anet decide to make large changes.

Yes, paragraph 1 is true..and yes, if I honestly believe paragraph #2 was going to be the case I wouldn’t be so worried… allowing stat changes after weird nerfs like this, especially on gear that was added just months before the nerf smashes the very thing they are centered on would make it acceptable…if they would only come out and SAY IT…

Inimicus.7162:

Yes, paragraph 1 is true..and yes, if I honestly believe paragraph #2 was going to be the case I wouldn’t be so worried… allowing stat changes after weird nerfs like this, especially on gear that was added just months before the nerf smashes the very thing they are centered on would make it acceptable…if they would only come out and SAY IT…

Well that is the concern on everyone’s mind. But think positively, they already have the ability to allow user to switch the stats when they remove the mf set. It shouldn’t be too difficult on the dev side to allow us to switch stats for crit dam gear.

Of course now WvW roaming will be completely shut off to power builds. Seriously Anet what exactly is the point nerf crit dam? Since no meta will change, all they did to make an already inferior set even more useless in WvW.

bigmonto.4215:

frans.8092:

No, precision may well scale a bit better then it used to do in comparison.

What is your reason for that? And for which mode?

I’ve used damage fromulas, replacing crit damage on gear with Ferocity, then converted ferocity to crit damage and checking which stats would be best to increase, given a base. With 1:1400 cit-damage : ferocity, which replaces most values quite nicely, precision becomes about equal in effect to ferocity. Keep in mind that crit damage has a base +50%.

They’ve also said they were going to rework on-crit sigils to trigger more easily, so overall increasing critical chance gains a little favour.

Off course without the actual numbers this is just speculation, which why I said might - in reaction to the post on Assassin’s gear.

With crit damage nerf, precision will get a hit too (of course not nearly as bad as crit dam). Power, will be even more important. Power is already the most effective stat for dam (in pve), it will be even more so in after the crit damage nerf.

Yes, regarding power nothing will change, it’ll stay the #1 damage stat. Precision may change it’s status though.

Have you considered buffing rampager to be on par with beserker and nerfing rabid/carrion? I dont think its right that gear with a defensive stat has such high damage potential compared to other sets. Especially as rabid seems to do more damage than rampager which makes no sense when comparing the risk vs reward of the stat combos.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I wanted to stop by and say thanks for the feedback. We do feel that the celestial stat set will be hit the hardest with the upcoming critical damage changes, so we are looking at possibly boosting the overall stats by a small amount.

Also the celestial stat set in PvP is using a much lower stat multipliers than the PvE versions so we will be looking at changing this as well. Nothing is set in stone, but I wanted to let guys know this is something we are discussing.

That’s good to hear, since crafting Celestials requires time gated mats. I feel that the Celestial stat set should be slightly higher overall regardless, since the requirements to get are a bit more difficult over other stat combos.

On a similar note, don’t forget to consider a revamp to the Divinity and Traveler Rune sets too.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I wanted to stop by and say thanks for the feedback. We do feel that the celestial stat set will be hit the hardest with the upcoming critical damage changes, so we are looking at possibly boosting the overall stats by a small amount.

Also the celestial stat set in PvP is using a much lower stat multipliers than the PvE versions so we will be looking at changing this as well. Nothing is set in stone, but I wanted to let guys know this is something we are discussing.

The PvP celestial set was never viable, so I think you should put it at a power level close or equal to the (possibly buffed) PvE counterpart.