Guild Wars 2

Killface.1896:

[…] you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

I agree. You have described the general GW2 meta. Where was the problem again?

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Wait, Shimmerless, are you suggesting that we start using damage comparison numbers and actual facts with numerical values for arguments on this thread now?

If so, I would really like to see your thoughts on how conditions as a whole are over powered compared to direct damage skills. Seems a bit out of sorts to see you criticize anothers numbers when you have not offered us any at this point.

Personally, It seemed to me, that common sense would dictate that he was simply making a point about the other poster mentioning spamming all of the skills, then that would be a good time to use a cleanse. I never did see where ash mentioned using any cleanses.

So I’m to take it that the whole, “You have 20 seconds to counterplay the Mesmer” thing was totally made up for the sake of dramatic effect, then? Because I am saying unreservedly that you will never in a million years have 20 seconds where you’re safe from a Mesmer’s pressure or kill potential if they are playing with the gloves off.

I rarely discuss numbers because mathcraft isn’t my forte and I don’t think they tend to reflect the actual game (Soldier’s, Soldier’s gear!!! Does so much damage!!!). But I do find it terribly amusing that you’re chastising me when you’ve made statements like, “All classes have a guaranteed immob clear” and you didn’t know how much damage your own burn-on-crit was doing. Stones in glass houses much.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

and for the “reasonable arguments” folks, just have a walk in WvW, choose whatever power build you want, then tell us your horror story.

Juba.8406:

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

I know of several WvW guilds recommending Soldier’s for power builds, and the damage is not that bad. There was a damage break-down by prefix on Reddit the other day. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/249pc7/effective_power_and_effective_health_of_all/

Juba.8406:

and for the “reasonable arguments” folks, just have a walk in WvW, choose whatever power build you want, then tell us your horror story.

Exactly… up until the feature patch, anyone investing in condition gear did that exclusively for WvW roaming. I’m not a PvP:er but as I’ve understood it you can use your PvE gear there now as well, which broadens the use of condition gear.

Power gear on the other hand is viable in all other aspects of the game.

How is that balanced? If you suggest reduced conditions because power builds doesn’t work for WvW roaming — guess what I will call for….

As a condition user, I’ve always had power builds for situations when conditions doesn’t cut it. Now here’s the trick question — why shouldn’t the same rule apply to power users?

Edit: clarification

That is a good read just saw it today and soldier’s gear looks even better now.

oZii.2864:

That is a good read just saw it today and soldier’s gear looks even better now.

lol, it only looks better because of Crit Dmg nerf.

jpersson.7368:

Juba.8406:

and for the “reasonable arguments” folks, just have a walk in WvW, choose whatever power build you want, then tell us your horror story.

If you suggest reduced conditions because power builds doesn’t work for WvW roaming — guess what I will call for….

As a condition user, I’ve always had power builds for situations when conditions doesn’t cut it. Now here’s the trick question — why shouldn’t the same rule apply to power users?

Edit: clarification

no i dont want Condis to be nerfed, i want crit dmg nerf to be reversed.

before 15th april, most condi-bunkers can be beaten with high burst and decent condi removals.

now with crit dmg nerf (more than 30% in my case) the damage just dont cut it against Dire users, you either go full zerk or rune of strength and hope you dont commit a mistake or go Melandru/Hoelbrak and bring every condi-cleanse you can get.

and say goodbye to to the period of diversity we had in WvW, something even PvP didn’t have.

Juba.8406:

now with crit dmg nerf (more than 30% in my case) the damage just dont cut it against Dire users, you either go full zerk or rune of strength and hope you dont commit a mistake or go Melandru/Hoelbrak and bring every condi-cleanse you can get.

I’m sorry but I feel you misunderstood me, maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Yes… I understand a berserker build has a rough time WvW roaming. That’s nothing new and I don’t think of that as a problem. Power builds are successful in many other aspects of the game, and I don’t expect every build to be successful in every aspect.

I tend to think of it as the difference between melee and range. Melee is successful in close combat, and range is successful in…well… ranged combat. Condition builds are successful in small-scale fights in-between players, and power build are successful everywhere else.

It sounds to me as if the condition builds got the short end of the stick, not the power builds.

Juba.8406:

and say goodbye to to the period of diversity we had in WvW, something even PvP didn’t have.

A classic tell-tale of sects is the idea that they are the last generation before the big apocalypse. I’m not saying you belong to a sect, but please listen to yourself. Power builds are still relevant and viable in WvW.

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

This Condi meta sucks real hard.Me and my Guild left now entirly Smallscale in WvWvW and SPvP.There is no active Playstyle only kittening stupid spamming.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Make an only power “power” build and see how well you fare against condition builds. No precision, no ferocity.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Direct damage is mitagated by Armor/toughness, protection, weakness, and block. You also have to connect those hits, condition damage allows for someone to stack bleeds, burning poison or any other damaging condition, and do other actions like kite, or heal or w.e they plan to do. The only form of damage mitigation against conditions would be -condition duration, but the stat is very scarce, except with food and whatever rune sets you have.

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Direct damage is mitagated by Armor/toughness, protection, weakness, and block. You also have to connect those hits, condition damage allows for someone to stack bleeds, burning poison or any other damaging condition, and do other actions like kite, or heal or w.e they plan to do. The only form of damage mitigation against conditions would be -condition duration, but the stat is very scarce, except with food and whatever rune sets you have.

Block doesn’t work against condition attacks? Condition builds don’t have to connect their attacks? Since when?

Conditions also can’t crit, gain no benefit from vulnerability, and are not affected by modifiers such as Sigil of Force or traits. There are 0 methods to multiply condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction.

And guess what? Power builds can land their attacks and then kite/heal, or w/e they plan to do as well. Because their skill has already had its full effect. There is no difference at all in that respect. In both cases, the build has unloaded its offense and is buying time. Only difference is that Power builds are waiting on cooldowns and condition builds are waiting on cooldowns and for their damage to actually take effect.

I guess it’s time to reverse the Putrid Mark nerf.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Direct damage is mitagated by Armor/toughness, protection, weakness, and block. You also have to connect those hits, condition damage allows for someone to stack bleeds, burning poison or any other damaging condition, and do other actions like kite, or heal or w.e they plan to do. The only form of damage mitigation against conditions would be -condition duration, but the stat is very scarce, except with food and whatever rune sets you have.

Block doesn’t work against condition attacks? Condition builds don’t have to connect their attacks? Since when?

Conditions also can’t crit, gain no benefit from vulnerability, and are not affected by modifiers such as Sigil of Force or traits. There are 0 methods to multiply condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction.

And guess what? Power builds can land their attacks and then kite/heal, or w/e they plan to do as well. Because their skill has already had its full effect. There is no difference at all in that respect. In both cases, the build has unloaded its offense and is buying time. Only difference is that Power builds are waiting on cooldowns and condition builds are waiting on cooldowns and for their damage to actually take effect.

Heres the problem. A power build must make sure that they kill their opponent. Condition users can apply conditions and leave, if the opponent is low on health, because their conditions will kill the enemy.

The problem is condition builds is that they rely on only one stat. You can argue that conditions need “condition duration” but it ultimately doesn’t matter on the PvP scene.

What it boils down to is that power builds need Power, Ferocity, and Precision to do damage. That means all three slots for stats are filled. And with the condition meta nowadays they can’t take any defensive utilities/traits because they have to take condition cleansing utilities/traits.

Condition classes are becoming ridiculous. The most extreme example of what I am referring to is the s/s and longbow settlers ammy shout warrior build.

condi dmg would be fine if it would be damage over time and not die in 3 seconds… dont try to compare condis against power and argue that power does more dmg. yes it does. but its needs usually to be melee and use a freaking “SETUP” to negate your defense… 1 single stunbreak or right dodge can negate the complete BURST of power builds. but not on condis. 1 condi cleanse cant negate all the dmg condi builds does. thats the problem with condibuilds.

usually there is no counterplay. either some has so many cleanses or usually not enough. a condiuser doesnt need to think about WHEN to burst with condis. the only exception is zerkerstance on warrior. where as power u need to force dodges and knowing when to start your burst. thats the only problem i have with condis. the fact that no brain is needed, cause either u win or not.. its build wars and not how it should be.

bobomb.5209:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Direct damage is mitagated by Armor/toughness, protection, weakness, and block. You also have to connect those hits, condition damage allows for someone to stack bleeds, burning poison or any other damaging condition, and do other actions like kite, or heal or w.e they plan to do. The only form of damage mitigation against conditions would be -condition duration, but the stat is very scarce, except with food and whatever rune sets you have.

Block doesn’t work against condition attacks? Condition builds don’t have to connect their attacks? Since when?

Conditions also can’t crit, gain no benefit from vulnerability, and are not affected by modifiers such as Sigil of Force or traits. There are 0 methods to multiply condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction.

And guess what? Power builds can land their attacks and then kite/heal, or w/e they plan to do as well. Because their skill has already had its full effect. There is no difference at all in that respect. In both cases, the build has unloaded its offense and is buying time. Only difference is that Power builds are waiting on cooldowns and condition builds are waiting on cooldowns and for their damage to actually take effect.

Heres the problem. A power build must make sure that they kill their opponent. Condition users can apply conditions and leave, if the opponent is low on health, because their conditions will kill the enemy.

The problem is condition builds is that they rely on only one stat. You can argue that conditions need “condition duration” but it ultimately doesn’t matter on the PvP scene.

What it boils down to is that power builds need Power, Ferocity, and Precision to do damage. That means all three slots for stats are filled. And with the condition meta nowadays they can’t take any defensive utilities/traits because they have to take condition cleansing utilities/traits.
.

A condition class that leaves when their target is low on health is asking to lose the kill. Even if the target has no cleanses left, they still get a total wipe when they’re downed and can res themselves back up. So no, a condition build can’t just leave their target any more than a power build can if they want the kill.

And condition duration is very important. What other stat can literally double your damage if you max it? Even on the PvP front where the max for conditions generically is +50%), it’s very important to keep the bleed stack high.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Direct damage is mitagated by Armor/toughness, protection, weakness, and block. You also have to connect those hits, condition damage allows for someone to stack bleeds, burning poison or any other damaging condition, and do other actions like kite, or heal or w.e they plan to do. The only form of damage mitigation against conditions would be -condition duration, but the stat is very scarce, except with food and whatever rune sets you have.

Block doesn’t work against condition attacks? Condition builds don’t have to connect their attacks? Since when?

Conditions also can’t crit, gain no benefit from vulnerability, and are not affected by modifiers such as Sigil of Force or traits. There are 0 methods to multiply condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction.

And guess what? Power builds can land their attacks and then kite/heal, or w/e they plan to do as well. Because their skill has already had its full effect. There is no difference at all in that respect. In both cases, the build has unloaded its offense and is buying time. Only difference is that Power builds are waiting on cooldowns and condition builds are waiting on cooldowns and for their damage to actually take effect.

There is one sigil that gives condition damage a 6% boost in damage and that’s the Superior Sigil of Bursting. if you are talking about spvp then you are correct. Power builds that land the hits and are mitigated by toughness, protection, and weakness, and evades/dodges. Whatever previous conditions that have already hit your target continues to tick through blocks, and invulnerability, and other active defenses.

The application is spammable just because they are loaded, onto auto attacks and on crit effects with low CD, and the scattered all throughout weapon skills and utilites. Blocks and dodges cancel out application true, but the application is so abundant that it’s practically not as effective in dodging direct damage skill. Dodge a application? No problem here’s another…and another. There’s also things like poison reducing healing output by 33% , confusion procing off any skill action you do. Sorry but power build’s key damage comes from burst meaning most of the damage comes from a really big hit/skill. Condition damage comes in a constant stream of steady damage until it becomes overwealming until removed, and you don’t have enough consistent small condition removals to keep up unless you build especially to remove a bunch(A guardian with soldier runes, pure of voice, purity, sigils of purity on both load outs).. Then you lose too much power damage and you hit like a wet noodle which often ends in a stalemate.

Power builds that run zerkers play glass, so direct damage and even more so condition damage will rip through them like wet toilet paper, because they sacrificed the defenses they have, to deal more damage. Condition damage only needs one stat, with duration being optional or taken care of with a rune set. The rest can be slotted in for defensive stat making a tanky condition build. Comparing the two builds Condition builds sacrifice significantly less because there’s barely any passive resilience stat that’s like toughness→power.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bobomb.5209:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Juba.8406:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Killface.1896:

Remove dire stat and give all that have that gear a change to pick new gear for game balance,problem solved you cant be super tanky and dps like a boss

By the same logic, shouldn’t Soldier’s gear be removed? It has higher damage output.

the problem is that damage from Soldier is terrible, can be negated by toughness, cant fire and forget and Power is hugely dependent on 2 other stats (precision/ferocity), unlike Dire.

Power damage is even more “fire and forget” than condition damage. Why? Because one you hit, you’re completely done with that attack! You fire, then can completely forget, because it’s already done. Condition damage builds have to contend with their attack being largely negated after they hit with it.

And you are comparing a stat with a gear set… Power is no more reliant on Precision and Ferocity than Condition Damage is with Condition Duration and Precision. Both stats work rather well in a vacuum, but get much better with addition of the other two related stats.

Direct damage is mitagated by Armor/toughness, protection, weakness, and block. You also have to connect those hits, condition damage allows for someone to stack bleeds, burning poison or any other damaging condition, and do other actions like kite, or heal or w.e they plan to do. The only form of damage mitigation against conditions would be -condition duration, but the stat is very scarce, except with food and whatever rune sets you have.

Block doesn’t work against condition attacks? Condition builds don’t have to connect their attacks? Since when?

Conditions also can’t crit, gain no benefit from vulnerability, and are not affected by modifiers such as Sigil of Force or traits. There are 0 methods to multiply condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction.

And guess what? Power builds can land their attacks and then kite/heal, or w/e they plan to do as well. Because their skill has already had its full effect. There is no difference at all in that respect. In both cases, the build has unloaded its offense and is buying time. Only difference is that Power builds are waiting on cooldowns and condition builds are waiting on cooldowns and for their damage to actually take effect.

Heres the problem. A power build must make sure that they kill their opponent. Condition users can apply conditions and leave, if the opponent is low on health, because their conditions will kill the enemy.

The problem is condition builds is that they rely on only one stat. You can argue that conditions need “condition duration” but it ultimately doesn’t matter on the PvP scene.

What it boils down to is that power builds need Power, Ferocity, and Precision to do damage. That means all three slots for stats are filled. And with the condition meta nowadays they can’t take any defensive utilities/traits because they have to take condition cleansing utilities/traits.
.

A condition class that leaves when their target is low on health is asking to lose the kill. Even if the target has no cleanses left, they still get a total wipe when they’re downed and can res themselves back up. So no, a condition build can’t just leave their target any more than a power build can if they want the kill.

And condition duration is very important. What other stat can literally double your damage if you max it? Even on the PvP front where the max for conditions generically is +50%), it’s very important to keep the bleed stack high.

What other stat can literally double your damage? It’s called Ferocity. but doubling condition damage isn’t dependent on precision as well.

Sigil of Bursting is a % increase on the stat, not the damage. For example, it takes 1,000 condition damage and makes it 1,060. This adds 3 damage/bleed tick, 6/poison tick, and 15/burning tick in that situation.

Dodge a power attack? No problem, here’s another. Seems just as “spammable” and “unavoidable” to me. I’ve seen loads of power builds that don’t so much rely on “burst”. Spreading out the attacks doesn’t mean you deal any less damage, but it does mean you are less vulnerable to active defenses like evades or channeled blocks. Condition builds are virtually always spreading their attacks out because if they simply bursted, a single cleanse could wipe out their damage after they landed it. It also takes more time for condition builds to kill, so there is no good reason to “burst.” The Time To Kill remains about the same either way, so why open yourself up to more than you have to?

“Previously applied conditions” are not something that it makes sense to be able to dodge. Does it make sense to be able to dodge an attack after it already hit you? What about blocking that Kill Shot three seconds after it hit? Should you suddenly negate a large portion of that damage? No.

You seem to think that “power builds deal X damage per hit and conditions deal X damage per hit and Y damage over time”. Here’s a hint; they don’t. Condition attacks deal Z+Z+Z+Z+Z that adds up to <X.

Here’s a hint, though, on condition builds and survivability. It isn’t a bonus; it’s a requirement.

@bobomb: Ferocity can’t, actually. You’re forgetting that the “200% damage” on crits includes 150% base value. The first 750 Ferocity only ups your damage on crits by 33%. The point was showing that condition duration is extremely important for condition builds and they do not just need “one stat”, but as usual, you chose to ignore that fact.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigil of Bursting is a % increase on the stat, not the damage. For example, it takes 1,000 condition damage and makes it 1,060. This adds 3 damage/bleed tick, 6/poison tick, and 15/burning tick in that situation.

Okay defeated there, always thought it was 6%to outgoing condition damage

Dodge a power attack? No problem, here’s another. Seems just as “spammable” and “unavoidable” to me. I’ve seen loads of power builds that don’t so much rely on “burst”. Spreading out the attacks doesn’t mean you deal any less damage, but it does mean you are less vulnerable to active defenses like evades or channeled blocks. Condition builds are virtually always spreading their attacks out because if they simply bursted, a single cleanse could wipe out their damage after they landed it. It also takes more time for condition builds to kill, so there is no good reason to “burst.” The Time To Kill remains about the same either way, so why open yourself up to more than you have to?

Yes dodge a power attack, Zerker damage will always out damage a soldier/pure power spec. If you don’t have crit do not expect to kill anything unless they stand still. Condition builds take time? So do power builds no matter how you cut it both take time to kill things, Condition damage isn’t hampered by any stat like toughness is, and there’s no real active mitigation to make them do less damage, all it needs to do is to tick damage, until removed by condition removal. A full condition spec will have it’s bleeds tick for over 110+ damage for each stack of bleeding, plus whatever other damage source, and lets not forget the hits themselves do do a small bit of damage to.

“Previously applied conditions” are not something that it makes sense to be able to dodge. Does it make sense to be able to dodge an attack after it already hit you? What about blocking that Kill Shot three seconds after it hit? Should you suddenly negate a large portion of that damage? No.

Normally there’s a tell when you’re being killshotted, it’s channeled and you can see it happening with a animation giving you time to dodge, block, or blind. If you get spiked by it you didn’t react fast enough and you got hit by it. Previous applied conditions…am i supposed to avoid every auto attack, and every hard to predict AoE condition application skill? Or conditions that get applied to me with a auto attack crit, and low CD condition application abilities(that come off CD in half the time my removal comes up?) Poor comparison.

You seem to think that “power builds deal X damage per hit and conditions deal X damage per hit and Y damage over time”. Here’s a hint; they don’t. Condition attacks deal Z+Z+Z+Z+Z that adds up to <X.

The way you’re putting it, you’re only using bleeds, but you’re not adding any other conditions like poison, torment, burning, or confusion(On proc), picking up 3-4 of those. All that adds up to a dps of 1.4k-2k damage a sec, with decent stacks. Power builds are deal damage per hit, but after armor is calculated, and if protection is accounted for or not.

Here’s a hint, though, on condition builds and survivability. It isn’t a bonus; it’s a requirement.

If that’s so then there should be no reason for all the soft CC, and and abundant sources of application then. Then Berserkers require survivablity as well so they can effectively get their damage in, by your logic.

bobomb.5209:

What other stat can literally double your damage? It’s called Ferocity. but doubling condition damage isn’t dependent on precision as well.

You mean like condition duration, that increases condition damage by 100% ? But you wish to ignore precision which in its weakest case is a 22% total damage increase? I assume your aware of the damage percentage increase of precision on condition builds right? I mean it is posted on the thread in which it was broke down. Yet you declare a solid 122% at minimum damage increase has no value?

Seriously? Does your bias sway you so much that you ignore these facts?

Lucentfir.7430:

The application is spammable

Can I ask you to define for us the difference that suggest conditions are “spam” while every direct damage button mashing or consistent repeat of attacks is called what? I mean you have a generic buzz word for both cases right? Or is it just spam as well?

dancingmonkey.4902:

bobomb.5209:

What other stat can literally double your damage? It’s called Ferocity. but doubling condition damage isn’t dependent on precision as well.

You mean like condition duration, that increases condition damage by 100% ? But you wish to ignore precision which in its weakest case is a 22% total damage increase? I assume your aware of the damage percentage increase of precision on condition builds right? I mean it is posted on the thread in which it was broke down. Yet you declare a solid 122% at minimum damage increase has no value?

Lucentfir.7430:

The application is spammable

Can I ask you to define for us the difference that suggest conditions are “spam” while every direct damage button mashing or consistent repeat of attacks is called what? I mean you have a generic buzz word for both cases right? Or is it just spam as well?

Buzzword! OP

hooma.9642:

usually there is no counterplay. either some has so many cleanses or usually not enough. a condiuser doesnt need to think about WHEN to burst with condis. the only exception is zerkerstance on warrior. where as power u need to force dodges and knowing when to start your burst. thats the only problem i have with condis. the fact that no brain is needed, cause either u win or not.. its build wars and not how it should be.

Seriously? Dodges now no longer avoid condition application skills from landing? With this type of inside knowledge, you should run the dev team. I almost guarantee you, none of the devs we have now are aware of this fact.

bobomb.5209:

Heres the problem. A power build must make sure that they kill their opponent. Condition users can apply conditions and leave, if the opponent is low on health, because their conditions will kill the enemy.

Really? You mean They changed the game recently? Engineer turrets no longer attack is the engineer leaves unless you have a condition build? Meteor shower shower no longer works? My power necros wells will not trigger if you run through them unless I am in the immediate vicinity? Rangers shouts have changes to a smaller pet leash? Traps? Thief traps np longer work with power when a thief leaves? Engineer mines no longer function with my soldiers gear?

Holy cow. When did this patch go through. I am looking now, and I cannot find the patch notes. Please do the world a favor and link the patch nopes that support your claim here.

bobomb.5209:

What it boils down to is that power builds need Power, Ferocity, and Precision to do damage. That means all three slots for stats are filled.

Was this in the patch notes too? Or are you simply unable to differentiate “doing damage” from “doing optimal damage”???

I mean we have all seen the videos posted recently and in the past that show builds in soldiers gear from each profession out damaging dire geared builds, so do you have any evidence to the contrary, or are you guys simply going with the “cause I said so” theory? Which to me, seems like a brilliant way to go with all of the indisputable evidence you have been spamming on the thread er, I mean posting, recently .

I mean with guys on your side of the fence swearing dodges do not avoid skills that apply conditions, blocks do not avoid skills that apply conditions, and power no longer does damage, you guys surely cannot lose.

dancingmonkey.4902:

bobomb.5209:

What other stat can literally double your damage? It’s called Ferocity. but doubling condition damage isn’t dependent on precision as well.

You mean like condition duration, that increases condition damage by 100% ? But you wish to ignore precision which in its weakest case is a 22% total damage increase? I assume your aware of the damage percentage increase of precision on condition builds right? I mean it is posted on the thread in which it was broke down. Yet you declare a solid 122% at minimum damage increase has no value?

Lucentfir.7430:

The application is spammable

Can I ask you to define for us the difference that suggest conditions are “spam” while every direct damage button mashing or consistent repeat of attacks is called what? I mean you have a generic buzz word for both cases right? Or is it just spam as well?

You should play a power build yourself, vs a condi bunker( a decent one), because I’m getting tired of explaining it. Condition spam, in which case you apply mass amounts of conditions to targets, bleeds,poison, torment, burn, confusion(3-4 of those conditions), and lots of long duration movement impairment conditions, which act as a cover for your damage. You have to reliably hit the person to make a impact on your opponent with direct damage, if you can’t you’re not going to kill anyone who moves around(Hence why stun based specs are able to kill people).

Point is though you can spam conditions on someone because it’s abundant from many sources of trait, weapons skills and utilities, varying in different effects. Direct damage you can spam your key abilities all you want when they’re off CD, but if you aren’t hitting them, you aren’t doing any damage good damage to match the damage that is being done to you.

… There really should be more ways to resist conditions, instead of having to rely on cleansing/reducing them: It doesn’t matter if you reduce DoT times from 60 seconds to 25 if they kill in 16.

Then again… can’t boons be used to counter conditions, as well? Then again, Regen is probably too weak and hard to come by compared to all the direct-damage conditions available (How many are there?)

Ideally, I hope they can give diminishing returns for trying either pure-direct damage and definitely more diminishing returns on pure condition builds, so that whether you go for DD, Condi, or a balance of the two all provide viable options in combat.

Lucentfir.7430:

You should play a power build yourself, vs a condi bunker( a decent one), because I’m getting tired of explaining it. Condition spam, in which case you apply mass amounts of conditions to targets, bleeds,poison, torment, burn, confusion(3-4 of those conditions), and lots of long duration movement impairment conditions, which act as a cover for your damage. You have to reliably hit the person to make a impact on your opponent with direct damage, if you can’t you’re not going to kill anyone who moves around(Hence why stun based specs are able to kill people).

Point is though you can spam conditions on someone because it’s abundant from many sources of trait, weapons skills and utilities, varying in different effects. Direct damage you can spam your key abilities all you want when they’re off CD, but if you aren’t hitting them, you aren’t doing any damage good damage to match the damage that is being done to you.

Done so. Was no harder than a Power bunker because I knew exactly what to dodge, what to cleanse, and what to ignore as “acceptable damage.”

Both Power and Condition builds have specific attacks you should dodge. If you’re wasting your dodges and condition cleanses on auto-attacks (as I suspect you are), then it should be extremely obvious that the problem isn’t conditions, but rather your own play.

On both Power and Condition builds, if you aren’t hitting them, you aren’t doing any damage. I fail to see how either one is more “spammable” than the other. In both cases, you have key cooldowns and once you use them, you’re stuck auto-attacking.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

You should play a power build yourself, vs a condi bunker( a decent one), because I’m getting tired of explaining it. Condition spam, in which case you apply mass amounts of conditions to targets, bleeds,poison, torment, burn, confusion(3-4 of those conditions), and lots of long duration movement impairment conditions, which act as a cover for your damage. You have to reliably hit the person to make a impact on your opponent with direct damage, if you can’t you’re not going to kill anyone who moves around(Hence why stun based specs are able to kill people).

Point is though you can spam conditions on someone because it’s abundant from many sources of trait, weapons skills and utilities, varying in different effects. Direct damage you can spam your key abilities all you want when they’re off CD, but if you aren’t hitting them, you aren’t doing any damage good damage to match the damage that is being done to you.

Done so. Was no harder than a Power bunker because I knew exactly what to dodge, what to cleanse, and what to ignore as “acceptable damage.”

Both Power and Condition builds have specific attacks you should dodge. If you’re wasting your dodges and condition cleanses on auto-attacks (as I suspect you are), then it should be extremely obvious that the problem isn’t conditions, but rather your own play.

On both Power and Condition builds, if you aren’t hitting them, you aren’t doing any damage. I fail to see how either one is more “spammable” than the other. In both cases, you have key cooldowns and once you use them, you’re stuck auto-attacking.

I know when to cleanse, i don’t waste my cleanses on things like 2-3 stacks of bleeding and a small duration of poison, i save my cleanses for large stacks that go over 5+ . Power bunker does low damage, and most condi builds that aren’t warriors are ranged so you’ll be easily hitting your target compared to melee. I’ve played both condi bunker and power bunker, it’s much easier to kill things with Condition specs rather then power bunker. If you want to test it maybe we can play a few rounds in spvp if you want. You can play power bunker and i can play my condition spec :P. it’s obvious this discussion is going no where after all.

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

A big contributing factor to the problem is that condition builds only need two stats, whereas power builds need three. Hell, Condition Duration isn’t even a huge enough factor to be “mandatory”, but merely very helpful. Good luck stacking Power without Precision, or Precision without Ferocity though.
And Condition Duration isn’t even a stat on normal equipment. Just traits/runes/sigils.

Agreed – Direct damage requiring three stats (Precision, Power, and Ferocity) vs. Condition Damage’s single stat (Condition Damage) makes it much harder to work with. Power Bunkers have to divert more stats from the Bunker side of the equation than Condi Bunkers do.

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

Lucentfir.7430:

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

On the boosting front:
Power- Ferocity, crit rates, Sigil of Force, % damage traits, % damage runes, Vulnerability, Might
Conditions- crit rates (in conjunction with traits/sigils, on its own, no noticeable effect), Condition Duration, Might.

Hmmm…..

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

On the boosting front:
Power- Ferocity, crit rates, Sigil of Force, % damage traits, % damage runes, Vulnerability, Might
Conditions- crit rates (in conjunction with traits/sigils, on its own, no noticeable effect), Condition Duration, Might.

Hmmm…..

And how do you get that? Oh yeah by sacrificing defensive stats! Yeaah! Oh and they’re still mitigated by, protection, weakness and % damage reduction!

Conditions through runes and sigils= even more application! Woooooo who needs % damage amplification when you can just stack even more damaging conditions consistently?

Surprise surprise, you totally miss the point.

Conditions have fewer ways to mitigate the damage once the attack has been landed. They also lack methods to boost it. It would be broken if they had as many ways to boost their damage as direct damage has while having fewer methods to mitigate outside of active defense. This is not the case. The fact that NOTHING multiplies condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction is, in fact, evidence saying they are balanced. Not conclusive, mind you, but certainly a point in favor. Likewise, direct damage, while having a number of ways to mitigate it, also has a large number of ways to increase it. The positive and negative multipliers work together to balance it out. Net result? A person focused heavily into damage fighting someone focused heavily into mitigation has about the same output as a person with a balanced (statwise) build fighting another balanced build.

As for runes and sigils, those effects exist in Power too. Damage on elite skill use? Check, we have Runes of the Krait (conditions) and Runes of the Mad King (direct). Damage on crit? Check. Or do Sigil of Air/Fire no longer exist? Sure, there are fewer sigils that add direct damage than those that add conditions, but there are only so many ways you can do “additional direct damage” while conditions are more diverse. The only other way I could see a direct damage sigil happening would be an "on swap AoE (by the way, both Hydromancy and Geomancy sigils deal direct damage).

Like I said lets test it in Spvp to prove your point. You play a power bunker build with damage multipliers, and I’ll play my condition build with additional condition application. This is kind of like the thing that people say looks good on paper, but plays differently in-game. So i wanna test it against someone that knows how to play, a power bunker build. it’s pointless to try to point out things on the forums anyway.

Lucentfir.7430:

Like I said lets test it in Spvp to prove your point. You play a power bunker build with damage multipliers, and I’ll play my condition build with additional condition application. This is kind of like the thing that people say looks good on paper, but plays differently in-game. So i wanna test it against someone that knows how to play, a power bunker build. it’s pointless to try to point out things on the forums anyway.

It’s rather amusing, no? You’d think if PTV autoattacks were so strong and conditions were just so weak, it’s what they’d be playing already. Very convenient. (The engaging condition playstyle must just be too much of a blast to give up, even if it’s underperforming).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

On the boosting front:
Power- Ferocity, crit rates, Sigil of Force, % damage traits, % damage runes, Vulnerability, Might
Conditions- crit rates (in conjunction with traits/sigils, on its own, no noticeable effect), Condition Duration, Might.

Hmmm…..

You forgot the big boost to Conditions: Condition Damage.

Sartharina.3542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

On the boosting front:
Power- Ferocity, crit rates, Sigil of Force, % damage traits, % damage runes, Vulnerability, Might
Conditions- crit rates (in conjunction with traits/sigils, on its own, no noticeable effect), Condition Duration, Might.

Hmmm…..

You forgot the big boost to Conditions: Condition Damage.

Notice I also “forgot” “Power” under Power builds. The central stats are a forgone conclusion.

I’d be happy to demonstrate. Just let me know when you’re ready. I may win, I may lose, but the difference will not be large.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sartharina.3542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

On the boosting front:
Power- Ferocity, crit rates, Sigil of Force, % damage traits, % damage runes, Vulnerability, Might
Conditions- crit rates (in conjunction with traits/sigils, on its own, no noticeable effect), Condition Duration, Might.

Hmmm…..

You forgot the big boost to Conditions: Condition Damage.

Notice I also “forgot” “Power” under Power builds. The central stats are a forgone conclusion.

The more boosts you need to invest in, the weaker the option is because of a loss of focus.

Sartharina.3542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sartharina.3542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lucentfir.7430:

coglin.1867:

Always find it funny when folks call condition spam as a bad thing, but spamming direct damage skills some how is magically different. Talk about a clear display of unreasonable bias.

So do you have any evidence that power bunkers do less damage? Or as was mentioned above, are we going on the " cause I said so " system some more?

Power-, Protection, Armor, Weakness, % Damage Reduction,=Less damage against foes(note i left dodge and block out because people want to bring in the application thing.)
Conditions: Cleanses, – Condition Duration(only through Runes, and impairment conditions on traits)= Only two ways to deal with conditions. Either mitigate or remove conditions.= Higher damage since no real stat that helps mitigate the damage conditions do.

On the boosting front:
Power- Ferocity, crit rates, Sigil of Force, % damage traits, % damage runes, Vulnerability, Might
Conditions- crit rates (in conjunction with traits/sigils, on its own, no noticeable effect), Condition Duration, Might.

Hmmm…..

You forgot the big boost to Conditions: Condition Damage.

Notice I also “forgot” “Power” under Power builds. The central stats are a forgone conclusion.

The more boosts you need to invest in, the weaker the option is because of a loss of focus.

You don’t “need” to invest in the extra boosts. They are an option. There is a difference in “required” and “optimal”. Zerker gear is optimal for damage output, but it is not required for a direct damage build (which may have survivability objectives as well). However, if you are having troubles with the mitigations opponents have, you can bring extra boosts to counteract them. Alternatively, you can invest in the boosts from the start and wipe the floor with those not using said mitigations.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Surprise surprise, you totally miss the point.

Conditions have fewer ways to mitigate the damage once the attack has been landed. They also lack methods to boost it.

are you for real ?

your best boost is …. conditions ignores Toughness/Armor.

Lucentfir.7430:

Like I said lets test it in Spvp to prove your point. You play a power bunker build with damage multipliers, and I’ll play my condition build with additional condition application. This is kind of like the thing that people say looks good on paper, but plays differently in-game. So i wanna test it against someone that knows how to play, a power bunker build. it’s pointless to try to point out things on the forums anyway.

by power bunker you mean Soldier ?

that would be a funny thing, you would be naked in front of him, your toughness means nothing, absolutely 0 to his conditions, while your all ready pathetic Soldier attacks get even mitigated by his toughness.

I am tired of this discussion. I play mostly power builds and I have no issues at all defeating condition builds. They are a bit tricky, because they require the understanding of the condition damage mechanics, but they are not different than direct damage in their capability do defeat or be defeated.

I played for some time condition damage builds, but switched back to power, because it was just too easy. It’s unbelievable how many players run around without proper counter play and condition cleanses. In PvP I even get angry at the players in my team, that just lost again to this condi necro, which I ripped apart some moments earlier. The condition mechanics are fine. Many players just don’t understand them. And tales told in this forum and in GW2 chats just contribute to this phenomenon of not being informed.

I play a power-based interrupt build for a while now, and really don’t see the big problem here, either.
Conditions have a big psychological advantage, sure. But like Mesmer clones themselves, this only works against the bottom tier of PvP players, once they have even a small amount of experience they will no longer fall for it and conditions are just another source of damage. Easier handled in groups, at that.

So, in what universe are there direct/power-based damage dealing builds that aren’t “spammable”? Spamming “I’m trying to kill you” is universal, not a uniquely condition-damage thing.

Big concept time – “conditions can kill you” is working as intended. Damage, ALL TYPES OF DAMAGE, works. It kills things. Quickly. Very quickly in the case of direct damage.

But really, if you’re the sort that wrings your hands over “the meta” there’s a very simple solution – play (and win with) what you want to see nerfed. They do not elevate underdogs, they beat down over-performers. Get on the bandwagon.

Prove that [flavor of the month X] in your hands is too strong.

I think people wouldn’t complain as much if toughens did something against conditions, or the very least protection as a boon.

Tho I’d much rather have precision and ferocity merged into one stat…

Lucentfir.7430:

Like I said lets test it in Spvp to prove your point. You play a power bunker build with damage multipliers, and I’ll play my condition build with additional condition application. This is kind of like the thing that people say looks good on paper, but plays differently in-game. So i wanna test it against someone that knows how to play, a power bunker build. it’s pointless to try to point out things on the forums anyway.

I do. I play a power bunker engineer and a D/D power necro. Always makes for some interesting conversations against players with the mentality your displaying here. They are shocked and baffled by the out come. Even been accused of a random accusation of hacking after they learn of my builds.

Simply because your looking at it linearly, doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. Mean while others of us, use builds in unique ways, in which we incorporate the methods to strongly counter condition bunkers, for example.

Swim.6830:

I think people wouldn’t complain as much if toughens did something against conditions,

Net result: Knight’s gear wins everything except most PvE

or the very least protection as a boon.

Net result: boon-spam bunkers win everything except most PvE

Tho I’d much rather have precision and ferocity merged into one stat…

Net result: you have burst hitting just as hard as it does now, but also being much harder to kill if they screw it up. Alternatively, Precision/Ferocity hybrid gets nerfed to uselessness to make up for the exponential functionality, as each point would be worth more than every point prior.

So, your ideas, while they may sound good, would not have good effects at all on the game.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Swim.6830:

I think people wouldn’t complain as much if toughens did something against conditions,

Net result: Knight’s gear wins everything except most PvE

or the very least protection as a boon.

Net result: boon-spam bunkers win everything except most PvE

Tho I’d much rather have precision and ferocity merged into one stat…

Net result: you have burst hitting just as hard as it does now, but also being much harder to kill if they screw it up. Alternatively, Precision/Ferocity hybrid gets nerfed to uselessness to make up for the exponential functionality, as each point would be worth more than every point prior.

So, your ideas, while they may sound good, would not have good effects at all on the game.

I disagree on the first one. Effects will be unknown until tested.

The boon can already be converted or removed by most condition based classes anyway, so not sure what the issue is. People seem to remove/convert/steal boons at about the same rate as they are applied, thus making boon based classes kind of obsolete (like Eles/Guards who depend on this to survive).

The last one is the same type of balance you see with conditions i.e. 2 stat combo. Conditions have duration and damage, direct will have base damage and damage boost. This will allow a lot more diversity/hybrids and stat combos that are currently only available for condition classes.

I do NOT suggest all 3 at once, as that would be overkill, but the last thing makes most sense to me. Alternatively, lower the base condition damage by like 30-40% and allow it to crit by using the precision/ferocity stats.