Guild Wars 2

I understand what you’re saying but you really have to understand how difficult this game is to balance right now with sPvP and WvW. If you buffs condi’s for wvw just by directly increasing their damage(so that their damage is viable for large scale groups), you will utterly destroy PvP. If you nerf condi’s all across the board in builds, they will become even more useless in WvW(Along with PVE since they are already hated).

Tbh, if you’ve experienced PvP and class balance in MMO’s, youd be extremely thankful for how balanced this game is. The problem of condi’s is difficult but not nearly as bad as other games like WoW or Rift which are completely broken and beyond repair in terms of PvP.

@ dancingmonkey.4902

Okay, I’ll try to explain one last time. In sPvP, standard condi engi build is 6/2/0/4/2 with some variants not taking the 2 points of the Firearms line. Rabid amulet is used with Balthazar runes (sometimes Nightmare). That gives them 1197 condition damage and +75% burning duration. In total, each IP proc last 7 seconds, for a total of 4390 damage. Prior to the patch, it was only 5 or 6 seconds in sPvP. That build also has 39% crit chance and with a Hidden Flask proc, it goes up to 59%.

Your damage comparison has many fallacies, in part ignoring ranged vs. melee as well as the use of special attacks, armor, etc. If the warrior is meleeing the engineer, the engineer will use bombs, which have far more damage. Grenades can be used to kite while applying more condition damage and there’s pistol #2 and #3.

And engineers won’t use full dire stats in WvW, but they’ll substitute a good chunk of rabid for dire. The use of +40% condition duration food makes bleeds, poison, and confusion last longer, not just burning, and allows them to use Perplexity runes, which apply even more confusion. Not to mention higher overall stat numbers.

Exedore.6320:

@ dancingmonkey.4902

Okay, I’ll try to explain one last time. In sPvP, standard condi engi build is 6/2/0/4/2 with some variants not taking the 2 points of the Firearms line. Rabid amulet is used with Balthazar runes (sometimes Nightmare). That gives them 1197 condition damage and +75% burning duration. In total, each IP proc last 7 seconds, for a total of 4390 damage. Prior to the patch, it was only 5 or 6 seconds in sPvP. That build also has 39% crit chance and with a Hidden Flask proc, it goes up to 59%.

Your damage comparison has many fallacies, in part ignoring ranged vs. melee as well as the use of special attacks, armor, etc. If the warrior is meleeing the engineer, the engineer will use bombs, which have far more damage. Grenades can be used to kite while applying more condition damage and there’s pistol #2 and #3.

And engineers won’t use full dire stats in WvW, but they’ll substitute a good chunk of rabid for dire. The use of +40% condition duration food makes bleeds, poison, and confusion last longer, not just burning, and allows them to use Perplexity runes, which apply even more confusion. Not to mention higher overall stat numbers.

What does any of this stuff your spewing have to do with the 2 previously mentioned specific comparisons and the other posters push about dire? Your spewing your interruption on something that has nothing to do with the specifics of the post I was referring to.

Of course you also seem to think we are all the blind meta following band wagoners. That may work for you, but some of us find other builds we enjoy or that work more for our group/team composition. Other wise, I am sure the thread thanks you for the meta lesson.

11760 damage from PVT? Now I think dancing monkey doesn’t know how to count either. Take a look at the wikipedia, the entire Axe AA sequence takes 3.6 seconds, therefore you can only do 2 AA rotations (I saw something about 7 seconds).

I used my specialized spreadsheet (that checks damage against armor) to calculate full ascended soldier damage, and it does 9200 damage with 2 fully hit AA sequence. If the player dodges the final chop damage (we all know that dodging an axe AA really means there’s already a distance dodged away and the AA sequence might as well be ruined, but that’s another story.), the damage is only 7400.

Take in mind, I looked at shimmer’s build and calculated against 2600 armor. And I gave the warrior fully traited into power and crit line for stats based calculation. Incidentally, I gave warrior Fury as well, and I rounded it up with a 30% crit chance. Also, I checked into precision line for warrior, but it actually gave me lower DPS, so I guess at 30% critical chance it was more useful to up your critical damage instead. I also gave the warrior a bit of zerk stuff, ending up 189% critical damage.

Now, I have never used engineers in my entire 4000 hours game time (I have mostly ignored condition based gameplay, which is why I didn’t create a calculation system for condition, and also admittedly don’t know much about condition based gameplay), but I do know the previous crit damage era can break the dire players and I’m pretty kitten sure soldier’s axe warrior with no traits on him can do 11760 damage over 7 seconds. Now, I’m not so sure. And learn to calculate with a better system, dancing monkey.

PS: If you add protection to the player, 2 AA = 6k damage or 4.8k damage (dodge last chop)

So your suggesting that an engineer auto attacking with pistol and the IP trait out damages a soldiers gear axe wielding warriors auto attacks? I cannot tell. It seels your more concerned about correct my off the cuff comparison rather then actually answering the question.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Of course you also seem to think we are all the blind meta following band wagoners. That may work for you, but some of us find other builds we enjoy or that work more for our group/team composition. Other wise, I am sure the thread thanks you for the meta lesson.

It’s the “meta” because it’s the most powerful and most effective. Even if you choose not to adhere to it, you can’t ignore it when you look at the power of traits, skills, etc.

I’m not sure whether warrior out damages condition, but your calculation is grossly wrong. Imagine if you claim to have a salary of 100000 dollars, but in actual fact it was only 80000 dollars, maybe 60000 dollars after tax, would the people around you feel annoyed?

For condition damage to only require condition damage for the most part, while physical damage requires ferocity, precision and power to work together, I would think that something is wrong when a PVT warrior where VT is in the tank area out-damages a pure condition damage engineer.

The reason why I stay out of this physical damage > condition damage is precisely because I don’t know anything about condition. The only thing I will correct is other people’s mistakes on the physical damage portion, and also tell the condition people to back up their statements so we know what is true and what is not.

Exedore.6320:

It’s the “meta” because it’s the most powerful and most effective. Even if you choose not to adhere to it, you can’t ignore it when you look at the power of traits, skills, etc.

To start, the engineer doesn’t have “the meta”. The have multiple so called “meta builds”. Your only speaking of the grenade meta. And it is not the meta because it is damage optimal by any means. It is “the grenade meta” because it is 1500 range and simple. If you think it is optimal at anything more then max range, then you truly know extremely little of the profession. Perhaps you should stick with your bear bow.

LoneWolfie.1852:

, I would think that something is wrong when a PVT warrior where VT is in the tank area out-damages a pure condition damage engineer.

Then perhaps you should read the thread. The problem is, the uninformed often make the false assumption that condition damage professions only need one stat. Hence the anti condition uninformed statements about dire gear. Yet they want to kep bring up traits that proc on precession. As I understand it, the up time difference in IP, SS, sigil, gain a near 30% uptime increase when going from base crit chance to 40% crit chance. Not to mention the added direct damage increase, although the scaling is bad. As well, condition duration, which requires investment in weapons, runes, sigils, and a specific trait line, can literally increase condition damage by 100%. So to use the term conditions user and not differentiate between dire, rabid, carrion and so on, would be similar to someone who only used condition builds, just assuming soldiers, knights, and zerkers, focused builds, are all so similar that they are just all direct damage, and never differentiate them, while asking for a nerf to each and every one based on a complaint they have with a specific zerker build.

All of the sudden this Exedore guy for example, starts making a comparison of some grenade meta build he read about once, with specific food, sigil, runes, and traits, to an untrained warrior. To make it worse, he goes blathering about PvP and rabid gear, when the original claimant was specific to state a few things and one of them was dire gear.

LoneWolfie.1852:

The reason why I stay out of this physical damage > condition damage is precisely because I don’t know anything about condition. The only thing I will correct is other people’s mistakes on the physical damage portion, and also tell the condition people to back up their statements so we know what is true and what is not.

So first off, if you have some issue with “condition people” you speak to them. Secondly, kitten many anti condition people here have stated massive amounts of information, stated things often in the opposite of how they actually, or display a lack of mechanical understanding of the subject matter you would be better off not to suggest that this is a team of opinion against a team of opinion, and generalize everyone together.
Actually you need to visit the engineer forums. That is proven to be completely false. It is the meta because it is a 1500 ranged build that is reasonably simply. A melee bomb build destroys that build in damage.