Guild Wars 2

Karl McLain.5604:

Profession Changes

Elementalist:
Our changes for the elementalist focus on increasing sustain while maintaining the delicate balance between damage and durability. We achieved this by adding more defensive effects to a few main-hand weapon sets.

• Signet of Restoration: Removed the split on this skill so that the signet passive heal amount will be increased in PvP to match the current PvE amount.
• Armor of Earth: Reduced recharge from 90 seconds to 75 seconds.
• Water Trident: Added 3 seconds of regeneration to up to 5 allies in the radius.
• Burning Speed: This ability now evades attacks.
• Frozen Burst: This ability is now a blast finisher.

I’m glad that elementalists are finally getting buffed. What worries me is what they’re buffing.

Cantrip Armor of Earth: Almost every elementalist is already running this cantrip. They do it because it’s our only source of stability, and a great amount of protection. Very few utilities can compare to its capacity for survival aside from Mistform.

Water Trident: will grant Regen. This synergizes well with the water tree because IX (Cleansing Water) clears a condition on regen application. The Water Tree is condusive to cantrips.

Signet of Restoration: Is good when you can tank opponent’s damage. Running a full protection/regen boon duration build will make this signet shine. Protection/Regen is the domain of Cantrips.

Blazing Speed + Frozen Burst: Are both D/D builds — D/D is (at present) only viable as a boon duration/cantrip build. With all these buffs to cantrips--why would anyone play with any utilities outside of Cantrips?

tl;dr:
Cantrips are already the most powerful elementalist utilities. Post-patch, why will anyone run anything else?

I mean some ppl play d/d as arcane but yea you are right; although I think you are mistaken if you think cantrips are powerful because their cooldowns are very long. still going from 0 viable builds to 1 viable build is an improvement, even if it is triple cantrip bunker ele.

ens.9854:

I mean some ppl play d/d as arcane but yea you are right; although I think you are mistaken if you think cantrips are powerful because their cooldowns are very long. still going from 0 viable builds to 1 viable build is an improvement, even if it is triple cantrip bunker ele.

Isn’t the triple cantrip bunker Ele why we got nerfed in the first place?

Ancient Ranger.3276:

ens.9854:

I mean some ppl play d/d as arcane but yea you are right; although I think you are mistaken if you think cantrips are powerful because their cooldowns are very long. still going from 0 viable builds to 1 viable build is an improvement, even if it is triple cantrip bunker ele.

Isn’t the triple cantrip bunker Ele why we got nerfed in the first place?

It is indeed. And in spite of nerfs, Cantrips are still the only utilities which can hold up in WvW and sPvP.

GvG, sPvP, WvW, duelling… cantrip builds will account for at least 75% of the builds in all of these fields. And with the announced changes… they’re only going to get stronger.

While none of the changes will synergize with any other utility. Unless I’m missing something.

Let’s hope that they hide the important changes for ele

At this rate it’s looking like Staff or D/D support (energy sigil + might/force sigil) + triple cantrips + water+arcana build will become even more common.

The problem is – they are not used because they are powerful – they are used because we have NO other choice. I run either Mist or AoE, not because they are great but because we WILL die without them, though even with them we could still very well die.

I run a Arcane build mostly, but even Arcane Shield isn’t enough currently so forced into have TWO utility skills that are defensive and ALL of them are on insane cool downs and rather average for what they actually do compared to other defensive skills from other classes.

I still run staff with no cantrips, because kitten the system.
Don’t let the Man tell you what to do.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

I still run staff with no cantrips, because kitten the system.
Don’t let the Man tell you what to do.

No cantrips? What blasphemy is this, crucify this heathen.

The problem is that the other options aren’t good. If .Ele had warrior stats or stealth would I use the signets? No like thieves don’t take venoms over shadow refuge or shadow step or mesmers don’t take signets over decoy or blink.

Every profession has utilites that are taken in most builds, shout guards and wars run shouts, most other builds run EP, Berserker stance, and a stability, you can throw in 1 other utility.

Mesmers mostly run blink, decoy, null or feedback.

Thieves mostly run shadow refuge, shadow step, 1 other utility. When was last time you saw a all trap or even 2 trap thief?

A dps guardian runs meditations or shouts or a 2 meds with stand your ground.

There isnt anything wrong with cantrips it’s just that other utilities aren’t that good. There is no choice when most of your utilites are subpar. This isn’t a problem with just Elementalist there is always going to be a best for what you want to do.

Of all the classes I play I would probably say that guardian has the most useful utilities but the other classes have good utilities sprinkled inside along with bad ones the Elementalist is no different.

I agree with oZii, most classes have some really good abilities the rest are a sprinkling of useful stuff but mostly chaff. How many Guardians use spirit weapons? Now compare this to shouts or meditations if you are DPS.

Blink and Decoy are almost must haves for mesmers and looking at what else you can slot it’s not head scratching material. Stealth not only makes u utterly invisible, the only visual queue you get is your auto attack chain. But you also drop off target which is invaluable in a fight, no-one is going to wait out the 4 seconds(who isnt PU lol?) until u re-appear to re-target you when there are other targets about to lay some smack down on. And to top it off they are both stun breakers.

Now who the kitten is going to take mimic over 1 of these?

The only cantrip that currently warrants being taken because it is inherently good is lightning flash (which is still terrible compared to blink, let alone shadowstep). Armor of earth, mist form, and cleansing fire are all weak abilities that I wouldn’t slot on any other profession. What are you accomplishing while armor of earth or mist form is active? If they are not being used to get stomps or to bunker(silly with their cooldowns), they are just delaying your inevitable death because ele has no sustain to take advantage of armor and mist form is little more than a countdown to execution.

Frost bow is great, the arcanes are great minus power; the only reason cantrips ever get slotted over them is for the trait synergy and the fact that eles are so easy to kill they are encouraged to stack maxdefense.

This was one of my ancillary concerns going into the proposed changes for Elementalist in March. With D/D arguably being one of the stronger weapon sets and with excellent synergy already inherent within both the weapon set and Traits, why buff it further whilst /Focus and Staff languishes?

What Arenanet needs to realise is that the Triple Cantrip D/D Bunker DPS Ele is only 1 step away from becoming OP again, especially if the proposed changes go through, and that change is any alteration to Cleansing Water ICD. At a stroke, D/D will come back in force overnight; especially now that the PVP/PVE split of Signet of Restoration was reverted. At that point, only a reduction of RTL CD and debugging against Blocks and Aegis is all that is required for D/D to return.

This is a dangerous path that Arenanet is treading. The only consolation is that Conditions still tick through Mistform, and that Ether Renewal is now interrupted whilst Mistforming.

I am puzzled as to why Arenanet insists upon keeping Staff autoattacks as slow as they are, and 2 out of 4 attunements for Focus as weak as they are, and why Signets are so niche and weak that they have no strong place in the current meta; or indeed, why Arenanet does not simply alter Aura functionality as our primary defensive mechanic over Cantrips.

Their internal testing has vindicated them in the past though. 5 second ICD to Cleansing Water was derided widely by other people at the time as insufficient to kill triple cantrip D/D ele – yet Arenanet said their internal testing demonstrated otherwise. Time will tell if the path they tread is correct; but there are many, many pitfalls along the way.

I’m not sure that the elementalist will become op anytime soon…

Last night I was sitting in 3k armour and i was still eating heartseekers for 4k and backstabs for 9k+.

The low hp for an ele is what will keep them inherently weak compared to all the other classes. The fact you have to build in vitality into build and other classes don’t means your overall stats will always be weaker.

MonMalthias.4763:

This was one of my ancillary concerns going into the proposed changes for Elementalist in March. With D/D arguably being one of the stronger weapon sets and with excellent synergy already inherent within both the weapon set and Traits, why buff it further whilst /Focus and Staff languishes?

that may ne the reason why focus is meta and D/D is considered unviable in possibly any part of the game…..

Staff comes second…..

D/D is undeniably the least viable and least used….except for fun
(the Whole page of nerfs it got has already been posted too often….)

What Arenanet needs to realise is that the Triple Cantrip D/D Bunker DPS Ele is only 1 step away from becoming OP again, especially if the proposed changes go through, and that change is any alteration to Cleansing Water ICD. At a stroke, D/D will come back in force overnight

S/D was the OP cantrip ele leading to nerfs not D/D….as stated by devs explaining their “balancing” reasons who led ele to fall from top tier in PvP to lowest tier.

If your facts are not correct, you could come to wrong conclusions.

@ MonMallthias. I’ve seen you post and you seem reasonable but your facts are indeed wrong.

S/d cantrip was meta. D/d was good in WvW that’s it.

The problem was other classes where bad.

Would the d/d cantrip bunker be op against:

Current hambow wars?
S/d or s/p thieves?
Dhuumfire necro’s’?

Those meta builds above weren’t around when ele was supposedly op. 10/30/0/0/30 thieves could have ran that build back then but it wasn’t nearly as good now. The others I mentioned weren’t viable at all back then warrior wasn’t even close to viable period. Necro’s had no dhuumfire

Not beating a dead horse but you get my point. The old cantrip ele wouldn’t even be viable in today’s meta and would possibly get a consideration if it had the old bugged 1500 range RTL.

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

LordByron.8369:

that may ne the reason why focus is meta and D/D is considered unviable in possibly any part of the game…..

D/D is currently the most widely accepted duelling set for Elementalist, which is what I think he was getting at.

It’s popularized because it has 2 auras which can grant protection when traited. which gives us more survivability.

oZii.2864:

The problem is that the other options aren’t good. If .Ele had warrior stats or stealth would I use the signets? No like thieves don’t take venoms over shadow refuge or shadow step or mesmers don’t take signets over decoy or blink.

I agree with you, but the point being made is that they’re buffing every skill that would push us into a silo of one or two meta builds which works—and a slough of them that don’t.

It would be like the devs deciding (god forbid) that thieves are underpowered. Let’s buff shadow refuge.

MonMalthias.4763:

What Arenanet needs to realise is that the Triple Cantrip D/D Bunker DPS Ele is only 1 step away from becoming OP again

I think this is true. We are very close to being viable (in fact, some of the best-skilled eles are trouncing people in the OS). And even one small mistake will make Ele OP.

And I think that’s what ArenaNet has in mind with these changes. They decided that they need to get Elementalists back into the ring, but they want to do it by doing as little as they possibly can. And for ANet, I feel like they settled on cantrips—which is the point of this post.

They look at cantrips and said “How can we make these utilities competitive?”—made the above changes—and decided to leave it at that.

They’re hoping that with these changes, we’ll see more elementalists in the spvp arena—and cloud any arguments that Ele’s need help by pointing to cantrips and saying “Look. This guy can play Ele. The class is fine.”

But they’ve basically killed any chance of diversified play.

Against any other class, you can ask them “What utilities are you running?” and the question will be answered fairly.

Ask an ele “What utilities are you running?” and you’ll get raised eyebrows and a dubious “Cantrips…. what are you, noob?”

oZii.2864:

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

I’ve not heard of a successful D/dele that didn’t run cantrips.

I just wanted to reiterate: Decoy/Blink is the strong mesmer skills.

How would you feel if this patch arenanet said “Hey… we’re buffing Decoy/Blink to make you competitive.”

That’s cantrip ele.

MonMalthias.4763:

Why buff it (d/d) further whilst /Focus and Staff languishes?

Staff is the only weapon seen in an organized tPvP environment in the last 4 months, and s/f is generally accepted as the best weapon-set right. While focus fire is terrible, earth/air really carries the set.

What Arenanet needs to realise is that the Triple Cantrip D/D Bunker DPS Ele is only 1 step away from becoming OP again, especially if the proposed changes go through, and that change is any alteration to Cleansing Water ICD. At a stroke, D/D will come back in force overnight; especially now that the PVP/PVE split of Signet of Restoration was reverted. At that point, only a reduction of RTL CD and debugging against Blocks and Aegis is all that is required for D/D to return.

These things would bring d/d back, but would in no-way be a dominant set. The healing reduction isn’t what made signet of restoration good, it was the double and triple procs from evasive arcana, and 5x procs from hurl on scepter that made it great. It will still be terrible outside of non-meta written-in-stone builds.

I am puzzled as to why Arenanet insists upon keeping Staff autoattacks as slow as they are, and 2 out of 4 attunements for Focus as weak as they are

Staff isn’t a high-fire dps weapon, but more a ranged nuker or close-range support weapon. I agree focus fire needs a little help.

and why Signets are so niche and weak that they have no strong place in the current meta

Written in stone. Despite this, signet of air is actually pretty good in the right build, and signet of earth can see some use for the +stats.

why Arenanet does not simply alter Aura functionality as our primary defensive mechanic over Cantrips.

Auras are really strong, especially with some easy-grab traits. All that is missing is a glyph of Auras to really make them shine more.

Their internal testing has vindicated them in the past though. 5 second ICD to Cleansing Water was derided widely by other people at the time as insufficient to kill triple cantrip D/D ele – yet Arenanet said their internal testing demonstrated otherwise. Time will tell if the path they tread is correct; but there are many, many pitfalls along the way.

The 5s ICD is honestly REDICULOUS for cleansing water. Cleansing water was never the problem, even with cantrips. All that the cleansing-water nerf did was destroy a viable build for the upcoming condition meta. Because of cleansing water, making sacrifices for regen procs that an ele NEEDS to survive is no longer viable, because you get even less cleansing than many adept and master-tier traits on other classes. Every ele had to go “ether renewal” or go home. If Cleansing water was reasonable, and worked with all regen procs, it would actually make non-ether renewal builds possible. Now, its just so unreliable, because you swap to water, then wait FIVE SECONDS if you need another cleanse from a skill with regen? What about the trait that gives you regen on being crit? That will completely destroy the reliability of what you are trying to do.

Just turn all the other utilities into cantrips so we can safely say that every utility skill is good.

oZii.2864:

@ MonMallthias. I’ve seen you post and you seem reasonable but your facts are indeed wrong.

S/d cantrip was meta. D/d was good in WvW that’s it.

The problem was other classes where bad.

Would the d/d cantrip bunker be op against:

Current hambow wars?
S/d or s/p thieves?
Dhuumfire necro’s’?

Those meta builds above weren’t around when ele was supposedly op. 10/30/0/0/30 thieves could have ran that build back then but it wasn’t nearly as good now. The others I mentioned weren’t viable at all back then warrior wasn’t even close to viable period. Necro’s had no dhuumfire

Not beating a dead horse but you get my point. The old cantrip ele wouldn’t even be viable in today’s meta and would possibly get a consideration if it had the old bugged 1500 range RTL.

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

I was under the impression that the reduction of damage reduction of Frost Aura from (I think it was 15%?) to the current 10% was aimed at D/D due to stacking with Protection, along with an increase of ICD to Shocking Aura. (Double Fury from Shocking Aura notwithstanding). In addition, Signet of Restoration had much better synergy with D/D pre-nerf than Scepter due to faster and better autoattacks (although the Rock Barrier/Hurl was quite strong with it as well).

That said, I didn’t play much Ele back then so I will concede that S/D Ele was meta back in the days when Elementalist was strong.

MonMalthias.4763:

oZii.2864:

@ MonMallthias. I’ve seen you post and you seem reasonable but your facts are indeed wrong.

S/d cantrip was meta. D/d was good in WvW that’s it.

The problem was other classes where bad.

Would the d/d cantrip bunker be op against:

Current hambow wars?
S/d or s/p thieves?
Dhuumfire necro’s’?

Those meta builds above weren’t around when ele was supposedly op. 10/30/0/0/30 thieves could have ran that build back then but it wasn’t nearly as good now. The others I mentioned weren’t viable at all back then warrior wasn’t even close to viable period. Necro’s had no dhuumfire

Not beating a dead horse but you get my point. The old cantrip ele wouldn’t even be viable in today’s meta and would possibly get a consideration if it had the old bugged 1500 range RTL.

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

I was under the impression that the reduction of damage reduction of Frost Aura from (I think it was 15%?) to the current 10% was aimed at D/D due to stacking with Protection, along with an increase of ICD to Shocking Aura. (Double Fury from Shocking Aura notwithstanding). In addition, Signet of Restoration had much better synergy with D/D pre-nerf than Scepter due to faster and better autoattacks (although the Rock Barrier/Hurl was quite strong with it as well).

That said, I didn’t play much Ele back then so I will concede that S/D Ele was meta back in the days when Elementalist was strong.

SOR did have better synergy with D/D but the problem well was really a bug fix you would get 3x procs of SOR from evasive arcana when they nerfed confusion and fixed the bug that caused you to bet hit with 3x strikes of confusion damage with SOR they also fixed the extra heals. That is what made SOR really good it is still my favorite heal but that is why it was much stronger back then.

For the Frost aura IIRC there was no 15% damage reduction on frost aura ever. It was just the chill but when they put a 1s icd on the chill they added the 10% damage reduction to it.

I honestly I would prefer the old no damage reduction but the chill with no ICD.

oZii.2864:

MonMalthias.4763:

oZii.2864:

@ MonMallthias. I’ve seen you post and you seem reasonable but your facts are indeed wrong.

S/d cantrip was meta. D/d was good in WvW that’s it.

The problem was other classes where bad.

Would the d/d cantrip bunker be op against:

Current hambow wars?
S/d or s/p thieves?
Dhuumfire necro’s’?

Those meta builds above weren’t around when ele was supposedly op. 10/30/0/0/30 thieves could have ran that build back then but it wasn’t nearly as good now. The others I mentioned weren’t viable at all back then warrior wasn’t even close to viable period. Necro’s had no dhuumfire

Not beating a dead horse but you get my point. The old cantrip ele wouldn’t even be viable in today’s meta and would possibly get a consideration if it had the old bugged 1500 range RTL.

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

I was under the impression that the reduction of damage reduction of Frost Aura from (I think it was 15%?) to the current 10% was aimed at D/D due to stacking with Protection, along with an increase of ICD to Shocking Aura. (Double Fury from Shocking Aura notwithstanding). In addition, Signet of Restoration had much better synergy with D/D pre-nerf than Scepter due to faster and better autoattacks (although the Rock Barrier/Hurl was quite strong with it as well).

That said, I didn’t play much Ele back then so I will concede that S/D Ele was meta back in the days when Elementalist was strong.

SOR did have better synergy with D/D but the problem well was really a bug fix you would get 3x procs of SOR from evasive arcana when they nerfed confusion and fixed the bug that caused you to bet hit with 3x strikes of confusion damage with SOR they also fixed the extra heals. That is what made SOR really good it is still my favorite heal but that is why it was much stronger back then.

For the Frost aura IIRC there was no 15% damage reduction on frost aura ever. It was just the chill but when they put a 1s icd on the chill they added the 10% damage reduction to it.

I honestly I would prefer the old no damage reduction but the chill with no ICD.

Oh, right. It’s been a while. I know the Signet of Restoration triple proc was definitely a bug and after the fix I think that was when D/D went into its decline.

I’d have said the successive nerfs to RTL are what really killed d/d.

scerevisiae.1972:

I’d have said the successive nerfs to RTL are what really killed d/d.

Pretty much this.

I may not play an ele at all, but I do think that cantrips are actually the least important to buff of the utility skills. Other than cantrips and a couple of arcanes, there’s Ice Bow and…well, nothing, really. At least, nothing good.

Cantrips and arcanes have okay effects, their real strength coming from the instant cast. The glyphs, signets, and conjures all need attention to make worth using. Make these skills worth their cast times and utility slots, and I think eles would have build variety again.

Karl McLain has laid down the law, and its name is Cleansing Water. All hail the Triple Cantrip Ele, the once and future king of Regeneration.

Elementalist:
Cleansing Water: This trait no longer has an internal cooldown while in PvP.
Meteor Shower: Updated the skill fact to display the increased endurance regeneration while the player has the Zephyr’s Focus trait. Added a red ring to indicate area of effect for enemy players. Added a white ring for allied players.

• This change makes x/x/x/30/30 pretty much meta. Again. Certainly, Staff Elementalists will have no excuse not slotting this trait – the synergy with Healing Rain/Elemental Attunement is far too great.

• This change will further lock down build diversity now that Cleansing Wave (The trait, not the skill) is in Master tier. Cantrip Mastery/Soothing Disruption will become the “locked in” Adept and Master traits once again – especially for Staff.

• Then again, 0/10/0/30/30 triple Cantrip D/D ele will make its triumphant return come March.

• Rock Solid/Ether Renewal less necessary as a result. The revert on Signet of Restoration combined with Cleansing Water may bring it back into favour.

• Glyph Heal + Cleansing Water is also an option now.

• Overall the change is good, but I fear this will ensure that condition clear will never be added to lines other than Water magic, and x/x/x/30/30 will become further entrenched. D/D x/15/10/15/30 will probably never again see the light of day, for example.

MonMalthias.4763:

This was one of my ancillary concerns going into the proposed changes for Elementalist in March. With D/D arguably being one of the stronger weapon sets and with excellent synergy already inherent within both the weapon set and Traits, why buff it further whilst /Focus and Staff languishes?

What Arenanet needs to realise is that the Triple Cantrip D/D Bunker DPS Ele is only 1 step away from becoming OP again, especially if the proposed changes go through, and that change is any alteration to Cleansing Water ICD. At a stroke, D/D will come back in force overnight; especially now that the PVP/PVE split of Signet of Restoration was reverted. At that point, only a reduction of RTL CD and debugging against Blocks and Aegis is all that is required for D/D to return.

This is a dangerous path that Arenanet is treading. The only consolation is that Conditions still tick through Mistform, and that Ether Renewal is now interrupted whilst Mistforming.

I am puzzled as to why Arenanet insists upon keeping Staff autoattacks as slow as they are, and 2 out of 4 attunements for Focus as weak as they are, and why Signets are so niche and weak that they have no strong place in the current meta; or indeed, why Arenanet does not simply alter Aura functionality as our primary defensive mechanic over Cantrips.

Their internal testing has vindicated them in the past though. 5 second ICD to Cleansing Water was derided widely by other people at the time as insufficient to kill triple cantrip D/D ele – yet Arenanet said their internal testing demonstrated otherwise. Time will tell if the path they tread is correct; but there are many, many pitfalls along the way.

There is no ICD for cleansing water in WvW………..Ele is one of the most terrible classes in sPvP. No ICD on cleansing water isn’t saving them in WvW either, even with new adept regen trait. Have you even thought about all the classes that have been buffed since 0/10/0/30/30 was nerfed? You are talking out your kitten, go home, you’re drunk.

The ele has been severely pigeon holed more so than anyone else due to the low hp and low armour at creation with nothing to compensate.

You’ve created a trinity by assigning different hp values and armor values at creation, except there’s no trade off in power/damage meaning those with low hp/armour will always be worse off when putting a template together.

If there was no such thing as a holy trinity in the game then tell me how many of you would take a melee mage instead of a warrior in a dungeon. Really it should be completely interchangable. BUt it isn’t as a high armour/high vitality mage will do 0 damage.

MonMalthias.4763:

Karl McLain has laid down the law, and its name is Cleansing Water. All hail the Triple Cantrip Ele, the once and future king of Regeneration.

Elementalist:
Cleansing Water: This trait no longer has an internal cooldown while in PvP.
Meteor Shower: Updated the skill fact to display the increased endurance regeneration while the player has the Zephyr’s Focus trait. Added a red ring to indicate area of effect for enemy players. Added a white ring for allied players.

• This change makes x/x/x/30/30 pretty much meta. Again. Certainly, Staff Elementalists will have no excuse not slotting this trait – the synergy with Healing Rain/Elemental Attunement is far too great.

• This change will further lock down build diversity now that Cleansing Wave (The trait, not the skill) is in Master tier. Cantrip Mastery/Soothing Disruption will become the “locked in” Adept and Master traits once again – especially for Staff.

• Then again, 0/10/0/30/30 triple Cantrip D/D ele will make its triumphant return come March.

• Rock Solid/Ether Renewal less necessary as a result. The revert on Signet of Restoration combined with Cleansing Water may bring it back into favour.

• Glyph Heal + Cleansing Water is also an option now.

• Overall the change is good, but I fear this will ensure that condition clear will never be added to lines other than Water magic, and x/x/x/30/30 will become further entrenched. D/D x/15/10/15/30 will probably never again see the light of day, for example.

The change to cleansing water in sPvP (since it was never nerfed in WvW/PvE) just makes it so the trait isn’t stupid.

Now with a icd on it the trait is not grandmaster worthy it’s stupid. I don’t know how much WvW you do but go roll around as a D/D Ele and you can see how the trait is. It helps but it wont save you from terrormancers lol.

The sPvP icd just makes the trait prohibitive to take because it works terribly now it is like when they take a good adept tier trait and move it up to master just because its a good adept then force you to chose between good masters now changing your build. That is all that the cleansing water trait did when they added the ICD on it.

The trait is ok in WvW is it grandmaster worthy sure but with current meta this change doesnt make it dominant or OP in sPvP. This change makes it viable now.

The current meta is conditions so thats where ele needs help. This will not make d/d cantrips dominant and killing everything with people complaining. You can play that now in WvW when was the last time you saw a post about Eles being OP in WvW or necro’s complaining that Ele’s have to much condi removal? Since cleansing water has no ICD in WvW it has had a year of testing live and I havent seen a Ele OP thread.

That is why they put the icd on it in the first place because necro’s couldn’t counter that with mist form ether renewal combos. Now you can go out in WvW with 30 water/30 arcana and see if Necro’s, or engineers still have a problem killing/condi pressuring elementalist. I know on my necro I see all Ele’s as free meals.

With the soothing wave change you could possibly go 30 water and not need to slot a cantrip since that will proc regen on you. Same with a s/d ele with trident though I don’t know why you would want 30 water with s/d but at least it’s a option.

0/30/0/30/10 S/D with soothing wave, cleansing wave, cleansing water. Regen on trident cleansing wave on dagger 5. I could see this possibly maybe piercing shards instead of cleansing wave with dragon tooth/swap to water combo for extra damage because vital striking is a hard trait to get good mileage out of except in the opener.

oZii.2864:

0/30/0/30/10 S/D with soothing wave, cleansing wave, cleansing water. Regen on trident cleansing wave on dagger 5. I could see this possibly maybe piercing shards instead of cleansing wave with dragon tooth/swap to water combo for extra damage because vital striking is a hard trait to get good mileage out of except in the opener.

This is the build which will benefit the most from the trident regen. And, again, pushing cantrips further into the spotlight.

Did they forget the god-ele bunker best dps/bunker/escape d/d builds? You know the one where 2 d/d eles can fight off 30 players in WvW. Someone should link the video to remind what eles were before they were nerfed.

It will never return to that state. Puh-lease. They’re buffing in the right direction. Naysayers are just those who are scared that the highest skilled players will be OP.

News flash. That is possible for almost any class.

Forestgreen.7981:

Did they forget the god-ele bunker best dps/bunker/escape d/d builds? You know the one where 2 d/d eles can RUN AWAY FROM 30 players in WvW. Someone should link the video to remind what eles were before they were nerfed.

Fixed that for you.

The only reason that ever worked is that a lot of zerglings are stupid and/or silly and like to chase squirrels.

Soothing Wave, Cleansing Wave, Cleansing Water, Elemental Attunement, Evasive Arcana.

With this setup, you can cleanse 4 conditions around every 10 seconds without the need of cantrips. Scepter players also get the new Water Trident, Staff Players will have Healing Rain improved again, the Glyph of Harmony will also cleanse, and potentially, a buffed version of Dwayna’s runes will also offer regen.

The only bad thing about it, is that it forbids you from using Fresh Air. FA builds will still require Ether Renewal + Rock Solid for solid cleansing.

Forestgreen.7981:

Did they forget the god-ele bunker best dps/bunker/escape d/d builds? You know the one where 2 d/d eles can fight off 30 players in WvW. Someone should link the video to remind what eles were before they were nerfed.

That old GW2 where people didn’t know how to use CCs. Where Omnomberry Pies didnt have an ICD and would give classes with enough crit chance godlike sustain that made 15 v 30 possible. Where Signet of Restoration would proc like crazy when dodging or using certain skills. Where elementalists can zip in and zip out of combat using a bugged 1550 range Ride The Lightning.

No, after all the fixes especially to SoR and RtL that won’t happen anymore.

DiogoSilva.7089:

With this setup, you can cleanse 4 conditions around every 10 seconds _without the need of cantrips

Regardless – Every Elementalist is forced into 30 points of water to get their condi cleanse. So why you wouldn’t run cantrips at this point is a wonder…

I can only hope that these announced changes are only scraping the tip of the ice berg. Because as it stands—every ele is going to be running the same build from here to kingdom come. And that build is going to be based upon 30 pts water and cantrips.

And everyone else is going to figure out how to counter it in the first week or two.

Slotting an off-hand dagger/focus and Ether Renewal already gives similar condition cleanse ability as most necro builds, so I wouldn’t say you need 30 water for condition cleansing. Conditions do pose more of a threat to eles due to their lower health pool, but there are options outside of Water Magic for condition cleansing.

No, why 30 Water Magic is so necessary is the health and healing you get from the line, plus the cantrip traits.

This topic is kind of silly. Each class has specific skills which are best in most situations. You don’t see warriors complaining about “shake it off” “berserker stance” and two other skills that are heavily used.

We will eventually see changes and buffs to our lesser skills but they had better not come at a cost of nerfing our old builds/skills.

But if they don’t fix ele as a whole first, everything is for kitten. So stop complaining every time there’s a balance patch. It makes eles look like whining children.

You don’t need water investment for condi clear.
You need water/Evasive arcana investment to have “Burst healing”. Which otherwise doesn’t really exist.

I think the cleansing water revert is a necessary and good thing. It offers eles an alternative to ether renewal + rock solid, and makes it possible to create a build that isn’t destroyed by d/p trickery thief (which can reliably interrupt your heal EVERY TIME). In its current form, it is mathematically inferior to take cleansing water over evasive arcana, because you RELIABLY only get 1 cleanse/10s with cleansing water, and the same from EA dodge-roll. The fact that you get regen proc on swap to air, and then 80% of regen sources occur while IN water, make those sources null-and-void as condi clear. Waiting 5s after swapping to water for another condi-clear isn’t viable. I’d rather just dodge-roll and move back out of this defensive attunement.

Sure, you can go kitten-deep into condi cleansing and build tanky, which will be an o.k. build, but smart players will still build for dps,, and either take 30 arcana OR 30 water. Possible builds that will be viable:

-0/30/0/30/10 with s/d will see some use (maybe)
-0/X/X/30/20 d/d could be good
-0/0/20/30/20 bunker staff with settler’s ammy will be viable (esp with 2x sigil)
-0/30/10/0/30 with s/f or s/d will still be viable/borderline because it can get its condi clear from phoenix, magnetic wave, and water dodge-roll (which is sufficient for a dps build).
-0/30/20/0/20 might also see use, but trickery interrupting ether renewal makes it unviable

Also, a lot of those builds, especially if dps, only take 1 cantrip (lightning flash, which is still the best ele utility ever – I would take 3x lightning flash if I could) and a couple arcanes. The problem here isn’t that cantrips are the only viable thing, its that they are some of the only powerful ones. Most eles have enough skills and utility on their weapons, that they gravitate towards instant-cast skills on their bar that allow them to quickly respond to damage/cc/condis. To take a skill with a cast-time, it has to be really strong (like frost bow) or something like signet of earth/fire where the active is never used.

BlackBeard.2873:

Most eles have enough skills and utility on their weapons, that they gravitate towards instant-cast skills on their bar that allow them to quickly respond to damage/cc/condis. To take a skill with a cast-time, it has to be really strong (like frost bow) or something like signet of earth/fire where the active is never used.

This is an excellent point. To be honest, I think most classes gravitate towards instant-cast utilities, at least in PvP, but the Elementalist requires instant-cast Utilities more than any of the other classes due the pace of the game and the Ele’s low health/armor and lack of inherent defenses. Cantrips aren’t great (especially due to their horrendous cool downs) but are automatically better because of their instant cast times and mediocre defensive value. Second comes Arcane Shield and Signet of Air is a distant third.

I hope the devs can take this into account and buff our more useless utilities to be more useful. I’m looking at Signets mainly (give me a reason to activate them) but this also applies to Glyphs other than Elemental Harmony and most Conjures.

Mbelch.9028:

This topic is kind of silly. Each class has specific skills which are best in most situations. You don’t see warriors complaining about “shake it off” “berserker stance” and two other skills that are heavily used.

We will eventually see changes and buffs to our lesser skills but they had better not come at a cost of nerfing our old builds/skills.

But if they don’t fix ele as a whole first, everything is for kitten. So stop complaining every time there’s a balance patch. It makes eles look like whining children.

The reason why warriors don’t complain about those skill is because they are not forced into using them or forced to put 30 points into a single trait line in order to get good cleansing. They have Cleansing ire/Dogged March which is a 20 point investment in Defense, Shake It Off and Mending (no points invested) or combine Soldier Runes and 3 shouts (30 points in Tactics). Warriors have the highest build diversity in the game at the moment.

On an Ele you have no choice but put at least 20 points in Water to get any form of cleansing other than a kittenty signet and mediocre heal. These changes don’t do a whole lot to promote build diversity. You can’t really use anything other than cantrips and arcane skill either since Glyths and Signets really kind of suck.

Julie Yann.5379:

On an Ele you have no choice but put at least 20 points in Water to get any form of cleansing other than a kittenty signet and mediocre heal. These changes don’t do a whole lot to promote build diversity. You can’t really use anything other than cantrips and arcane skill either since Glyths and Signets really kind of suck.

Bull. I stated it before, but eles have great condition cleansing even without traiting for it. Water Magic is mandatory for the extra 2k-3k health and the healing options. The fact this line also gives additional condition cleansing is gravy. It is not the reason to spec water magic.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Bull. I stated it before, but eles have great condition cleansing even without traiting for it.

In the form of Ether Renewal, which is extremely easy to interrupt if you don’t take 20 points in Earth for Rock Solid. You can try CCing your opponent before healing, but stun-breakers aren’t exactly a rare sight.

But yes, what I just said up there explains why Water isn’t madatory for condition removal.

Focus and off-hand dagger also have decent condition cleansing abilities on them, and Cleansing Flame is always forgotten. Yes, Ether Renewal is easy to interrupt, but so are most heals in the game. Armor of Earth, Arcane Shield, Rock Solid, blinds (most of which are instant-cast for eles), CC, and even the focus invulnerability all make it fairly easy to complete, though. Heck, the focus invulnerability brings even more cleansing.

I mostly play a Staff Ele in WvW condition spamfest, the reason I spec water and cantrips is for cleansing, it is such a better option. Condi cleanse everytime I apply regen, regen when attuning to water, regen on cantrips, water 5 regen + condi cleanse. I am constantly cleansing. I don’t use Ether Renewal cause I never liked the idea of wasting a heal to cleanse some conditions. I don’t have a shortage of heals on Staff when you consider that I can blast my own fields when the need arises. Too me the HP and Healing of traiting water are the bonus. Why would anyone use another form of cleanse when traiting water does it all?

Why trait water when you can get damage and get all the same cleansing? It’s a two-way street.

The issue with Ele traiting is that regardless of your personal reason for traiting into Water Magic, you trait there because you NEED what the traitline gives. You may say “well, I trait water to get condition cleansing”, but you don’t actually. You trait water so you can get the same condition cleansing and run something else in your skills. This isn’t wrong to do, but saying that you need to trait there for that reason is faulty.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why trait water when you can get damage and get all the same cleansing? It’s a two-way street.

The issue with Ele traiting is that regardless of your personal reason for traiting into Water Magic, you trait there because you NEED what the traitline gives. You may say “well, I trait water to get condition cleansing”, but you don’t actually. You trait water so you can get the same condition cleansing and run something else in your skills. This isn’t wrong to do, but saying that you need to trait there for that reason is faulty.

I guess we just have 2 different ways of having the same problem which is Water is too good a line not to trait into and the proposed changes in the March patch aren’t going to help alleviate the problem.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why trait water when you can get damage and get all the same cleansing? It’s a two-way street.

The issue with Ele traiting is that regardless of your personal reason for traiting into Water Magic, you trait there because you NEED what the traitline gives. You may say “well, I trait water to get condition cleansing”, but you don’t actually. You trait water so you can get the same condition cleansing and run something else in your skills. This isn’t wrong to do, but saying that you need to trait there for that reason is faulty.

You trait for the needed survivability, which most definitely includes the Condition cleansing.