Honestly I think one of the problems is the Cooldown of burst skills. You can try dodging it all you want, but you literally can’t keep up with the burst skills. You have to waste all your defenses on dodging the burst skills and then you get beat down by all of their other skills as well.
My suggestion: Raise the cooldown of burst skills to around 14 seconds.
THIS VIDEO IS FOR ALL OF YOU
P.S. I barely play warrior, It is an easier class to do well with, no dispute there but once you actually reach a certain skill level you don’t fall for eviscerate and learn 2 dodge. One day you guys will get there
Round 1: Warrior keeps running away from pet and spends little time attacking. Evades while Endure Pain is up. :I
Round 2: Same thing as Warrior in Round 1 but instead keeps waiting for eviscerate to become available and barely does anything else until then.
Round 3 and 4: The Warrior did better than the first 2. However, she pretty much autoattacked until she hit 50% and THEN started using the rest of her attacks. She also might have been better off with Healing Surge instead of signet. Then in the second one she kept hitting him while block was up and paid for it. She also din’t evade the bigger hits very well. It might have been a first for her fighting a ranger that wasn’t using Bearbow.
Round 5: That warrior was burning attacks and evades that he should have used on the Ranger. But otherwise better than the first 2.
Round 6: This warrior actually managed to land an eviscerate that hit for 9.3k. Which is kinda low from what I’ve seen so I am wondering if the warrior wasn’t fully glass. Either way both of them did a good job.
Round 7: INTERFERENCE! But other than that the warrior almost got him. The ranger timed his downing move well though. It looked like it hit twice. o.O
Round 8: The warrior would not get off his GS until he was less than halfway dead. He didn’t use anything other than autoattack on axe and randomly dodged.
Round 9: The warrior starts off by messing around, not targeting and then targeting the ranger’s pet. She was all over the place the whole fight and even managed to get in the fire of another fight. :I
Round 10: For a few seconds the warrior actually attempted to tank him and lost plenty of HP doing so. He also didn’t kitten herself before she hit an attack.
I am going to stop there since the rest is pretty much the same. Overall this just shows, if anything, that Rangers need to get off of their bearbows. The build that the ranger was using was as evadey as a ranger can get, almost to thief level. The ranger knew when to time those evades and he knew the rest of his profession as well as the cooldowns of warrior skills because he timed all of them beautifully.
So I would not go by that simply because it looks like another Good n’ Glassy vs. Mediocre Not-so-glassy.
The thing is, in every situation the “balance” and “op-ness” will be different.
1v1 duels – You can clearly see the enemy movements/skill, maybe bit less if it’s an asura, but still, if you know the class and have correct build, you should be able to at least dodge the most damaging hits if you only have endurance. Good show in the ranger vs war video.
5v5 spvp thingy/small roaming groups – Still can dodge pretty well, because you can SEE and react to almost every enemy (backstab), unless they heavily focus you, then it’s gg if you haven’t run away or been immobilized/cc’d forever.
Big WvW fights – Here you can’t see/dodge every single skill. Obviously you can’t pay attention to every enemy, so you just focus on your job and try to move in correct places. As you see in the video, most of the guys who get hit either don’t react on time, don’t have vigor to dodge or simply don’t see it coming because focused on enemy group movements/casting their skills/being noob, call it how you want. This is where eviscerate shine (as a focus group member in organized group), with all the war mobility and you see big hits as in the video, with all might stacks/sigil stacks on enemys not expecting 15-20k dmg in 1 hit out of nowhere. Hit and run! He is squishy, but not really focused by anyone, partially thx to mobility, partially thx to him being able to strike first.
The balance lies in the middle and I think anet tries to balance it around their favourite spvp mode. Some adjustments could be made though, in the WvW mode especially. Warrior does have dmg condensed into some big hittings skills, but some might be a little to much. Having 25 might+sigil stack might be the extreme scenario to show it, but if those 15-20k hits were replaced with a bit lower numbers, it would seem a bit more reasonable.
Vs no armor? Really?
Let’s be honest here – if you’re getting hit for more than 12k by an evis that warrior is full glass and can melt if you focus him.
Of course he hits hard with 0 defense.
It’s funny because when you say he’s “full glass” you’re saying he has 2400 armor and 21k+ HP while that would be a crazy tanky thief
THIS VIDEO IS FOR ALL OF YOU
P.S. I barely play warrior, It is an easier class to do well with, no dispute there but once you actually reach a certain skill level you don’t fall for eviscerate and learn 2 dodge. One day you guys will get there
Round 1: Warrior keeps running away from pet and spends little time attacking. Evades while Endure Pain is up. :I
Round 2: Same thing as Warrior in Round 1 but instead keeps waiting for eviscerate to become available and barely does anything else until then.
Round 3 and 4: The Warrior did better than the first 2. However, she pretty much autoattacked until she hit 50% and THEN started using the rest of her attacks. She also might have been better off with Healing Surge instead of signet. Then in the second one she kept hitting him while block was up and paid for it. She also din’t evade the bigger hits very well. It might have been a first for her fighting a ranger that wasn’t using Bearbow.
Round 5: That warrior was burning attacks and evades that he should have used on the Ranger. But otherwise better than the first 2.
Round 6: This warrior actually managed to land an eviscerate that hit for 9.3k. Which is kinda low from what I’ve seen so I am wondering if the warrior wasn’t fully glass. Either way both of them did a good job.
Round 7: INTERFERENCE! But other than that the warrior almost got him. The ranger timed his downing move well though. It looked like it hit twice. o.O
Round 8: The warrior would not get off his GS until he was less than halfway dead. He didn’t use anything other than autoattack on axe and randomly dodged.
Round 9: The warrior starts off by messing around, not targeting and then targeting the ranger’s pet. She was all over the place the whole fight and even managed to get in the fire of another fight. :I
Round 10: For a few seconds the warrior actually attempted to tank him and lost plenty of HP doing so. He also didn’t kitten herself before she hit an attack.
I am going to stop there since the rest is pretty much the same. Overall this just shows, if anything, that Rangers need to get off of their bearbows. The build that the ranger was using was as evadey as a ranger can get, almost to thief level. The ranger knew when to time those evades and he knew the rest of his profession as well as the cooldowns of warrior skills because he timed all of them beautifully.
So I would not go by that simply because it looks like another Good n’ Glassy vs. Mediocre Not-so-glassy.
You know what would happen if he played against a Warrior ‘in the wild’ (so to speak) and not in an OS duel? The moment stability goes up the Warrior would just twirl away on his GS and wait out the CDs/boons, then come back and destroy him (Assuming an un-braindead Warrior).
The problem with Warrior isn’kittens telegraphed attacks that can be dodged/played around in 1v1s, it’s the access it has to to nearly everything important in general combat (mobility/sustain/control/damage) without any significant tradeoffs (just put 20pts in defense, take some stances and healing signet, GS for utility and a control weapon like hammer).
(edited by roamzero.9486)
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
And…why would backstab need nerfed? Also, why are you trying to change the topics to thieves. We are talking about warriors.
THIS VIDEO IS FOR ALL OF YOU
P.S. I barely play warrior, It is an easier class to do well with, no dispute there but once you actually reach a certain skill level you don’t fall for eviscerate and learn 2 dodge. One day you guys will get there
Nice vídeo.
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.
(edited by xbutcherx.3861)
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.
I think a more fair comparison is looking at an elementalist’s fire grab in comparison to burst skills in damage, cooldown, and ease of hitting the target.
What do you think of that?
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, you play a thief so I will have to tell you to L2P before posting
Thanks
Also try to land all 3 warrior skill and then come here and let me know, oh wait you can’t because those are from 3 different weapons.
Rifle is very useless for hmm.. let’s see, EVERYTHING
Final Thrust always missed and it never crits and
Evicerate with 7 sec CD that you can dodge.
PLease let me know if you can dodge BACKSTAB!
(edited by xbutcherx.3861)
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
Thanks
Respond to my comment about firegrab plz.
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
I do not know anything about firegrab nor I do play an Elemental.
Sorry
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
I do not know anything about firegrab nor I do play an Elemental.
Sorry
Well it has a 45 second cooldown, is very hard to land without burning lightning flash (your teleport skill/semi oh kitten button also on a 45 second cooldown) and requires your target to be on fire to deal its max damage, at a coeficcient of 2.8.
The point is you need to get the stars to align to make this “burst” skill actually land and actually burst. It could not even crit. If you miss, or your target isn’t suffering from burning, you lose out massively. With warrior, things like eviscerate, have a leap to help aiming, have a ridiculously low CD at 9 seconds, and you don’t lose adrenaline if you miss.
Why should one of the D/D ele’s 3 usuable burst skills be so hard to use properly and have such a high cooldown when a warriors isn’t, and still has a higher damage coeficient ? (3.0 at max adren).
Theres a lot of factors that complicate that comparison, but the disparity is a bit strange. D/D eles and evic warriors are both secondary gank squad builds in WvW, so their comparison is reasonable and warranted.
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
I do not know anything about firegrab nor I do play an Elemental.
Sorry
Well it has a 45 second cooldown, is very hard to land without burning lightning flash (your teleport skill/semi oh kitten button also on a 45 second cooldown) and requires your target to be on fire to deal its max damage, at a coeficcient of 2.8.
The point is you need to get the stars to align to make this “burst” skill actually land and actually burst. It could not even crit. If you miss, or your target isn’t suffering from burning, you lose out massively. With warrior, things like eviscerate, have a leap to help aiming, have a ridiculously low CD at 9 seconds, and you don’t lose adrenaline if you miss.
Why should one of the D/D ele’s 3 usuable burst skills be so hard to use properly and have such a high cooldown when a warriors isn’t, and still has a higher damage coeficient ? (3.0 at max adren).
Theres a lot of factors that complicate that comparison, but the disparity is a bit strange. D/D eles and evic warriors are both secondary gank squad builds in WvW, so their comparison is reasonable and warranted.
Evicerate is a BURST skill, is not a regular skill. Elementals don’t get burst because they have 20 different skills per weapon set!
(edited by xbutcherx.3861)
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, you play a thief so I will have to tell you to L2P before posting
Thanks
Also try to land all 3 warrior skill and then come here and let me know, oh wait you can’t because those are from 3 different weapons.
Rifle is very useless for hmm.. let’s see, EVERYTHING
Final Thrust always missed and it never crits and
Evicerate with 7 sec CD that you can dodge.PLease let me know if you can dodge BACKSTAB!
That’s real cool that you have lvl 80 thief. Try having one for almost 2 years with a lvl 80 war, guard and mesmer on the side. And yes I have landed them all because I don’t roll my face across the keyboard like other players.
L2troll better.
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, you play a thief so I will have to tell you to L2P before posting
Thanks
Also try to land all 3 warrior skill and then come here and let me know, oh wait you can’t because those are from 3 different weapons.
Rifle is very useless for hmm.. let’s see, EVERYTHING
Final Thrust always missed and it never crits and
Evicerate with 7 sec CD that you can dodge.PLease let me know if you can dodge BACKSTAB!
That’s real cool that you have lvl 80 thief. Try having one for almost 2 years with a lvl 80 war, guard and mesmer on the side. And yes I have landed them all because I don’t roll my face across the keyboard like other players.
L2troll better.
My Warrior was my first char and after that I created the thief almost 2 years ago before the mega nerfs.
Anything else?
This is hilarious a Thief whining about a warrior. LOL
All coefficients from those warrior skills need to be toned down at around 2,5. Backstab coefficient needs to be toned down to 2 or maybe less.
Because all these skills have very low CD, and their animations are not much more easy to avoid than other high damage skills from other professions, while those have lower coefficients.
End of the discussion.
All coefficients from those warrior skills need to be toned down at around 2,5. Backstab coefficient needs to be toned down to 2 or maybe less.
Because all these skills have very low CD, and their animations are not much more easy to avoid than other high damage skills from other professions, while those have lower coefficients.
End of the discussion.
What it needs to be toned down is the amount of QQ against warriors.
My Warrior was my first char and after that I created the thief almost 2 years ago before the mega nerfs.
Anything else?
This is hilarious a Thief whining about a warrior. LOL
You might have had a thief for 2 year but I highly doubt you’ve ever gotten off your warrior much to learn it, especially since you still have problems with thieves on the most casual profession this game has. Otherwise you wouldn’t be complaining about a squishy profession.
And it is really easy to tell how inexperienced you are since you said:
while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.
In the same timeframe against a stationary target a thief could land 2-3 backstabs to a warrior’s 1 eviscerate. But targets are moving and evading and none of the warrior’s skills require anything aside from adrenaline. So that argument is false.
With proper timing, a warrior can land those hit and deal even more damage than a thief while still maintaining DPS. And while the warrior is 1111111ing away, the thief is spending those 3 seconds positioning themselves to deal almost as much damage as the warrior. Also a thief is useless while in stealth which give players a brief window to come up with countermeasures.
As an added bonus, a warrior can take a backstab alot better than most professions simply because the amount of passives and generous access to every aspect of combat makes it possible.
Maybe you should play a less facerolly profession and go up against people who know what their doing before you start complaining about a profession you can out-DPS.
(edited by Zacchary.6183)
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
Electric discharge + lightning strike =1.9 on a short cooldown when using fresh air.
Pheonix = 0.75*2 + 1.7 if they all land
Dragons Tooth = 2.25
Burning speed + ring if fire = 1.2. + 2
Combine any of these with a lightning flash or arcane blast and you have some nice burst. Some is spamable and some is not but on such low cooldowns, 20s or less, you have options besides firegrab. Its more of a finisher than burst.
Not only that but ele also has other attunements and a lot of variety in those skills.
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, you play a thief so I will have to tell you to L2P before posting
Thanks
Also try to land all 3 warrior skill and then come here and let me know, oh wait you can’t because those are from 3 different weapons.
Rifle is very useless for hmm.. let’s see, EVERYTHING
Final Thrust always missed and it never crits and
Evicerate with 7 sec CD that you can dodge.PLease let me know if you can dodge BACKSTAB!
That’s real cool that you have lvl 80 thief. Try having one for almost 2 years with a lvl 80 war, guard and mesmer on the side. And yes I have landed them all because I don’t roll my face across the keyboard like other players.
L2troll better.
Ima have to agree with butcher.
I played back in BW1 and nothing has changed about the difficulty of landing a Backstab, I would actually say its gotten easier with blackpowder and all
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
Electric discharge + lightning strike =1.9 on a short cooldown when using fresh air.
Pheonix = 0.75*2 + 1.7 if they all land
Dragons Tooth = 2.25
Burning speed + ring if fire = 1.2. + 2Combine any of these with a lightning flash or arcane blast and you have some nice burst. Some is spamable and some is not but on such low cooldowns, 20s or less, you have options besides firegrab. Its more of a finisher than burst.
Not only that but ele also has other attunements and a lot of variety in those skills.
Have to ask the question most ele’s are thinking right now; When did D/D get scepter skills too? I understand they are 2 weapon sets describing different bursts but they are unreliable. Dragon’s tooth will only hit if you pray and a miracle is granted. Burning speed is too predictable already with common rotations and you have to combo it with lightning flash for an almost guaranteed hit. And if you mean for them to actually hit you would usually combo it with Air5 or Earth4 further increasing the cooldown on those bursts dependent on the situation, such as if you used them previously to interrupt or save someone from a stomp. Lightning flash is nice but most builds take almost either full cantrips or full arcane aside from the super yolo glass ele’s which means their survivability is drastically reduced.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
Electric discharge + lightning strike =1.9 on a short cooldown when using fresh air.
Pheonix = 0.75*2 + 1.7 if they all land
Dragons Tooth = 2.25
Burning speed + ring if fire = 1.2. + 2Combine any of these with a lightning flash or arcane blast and you have some nice burst. Some is spamable and some is not but on such low cooldowns, 20s or less, you have options besides firegrab. Its more of a finisher than burst.
Not only that but ele also has other attunements and a lot of variety in those skills.Have to ask the question most ele’s are thinking right now; When did D/D get scepter skills too? I understand they are 2 weapon sets describing different bursts but they are unreliable. Dragon’s tooth will only hit if you pray and a miracle is granted. Burning speed is too predictable already with common rotations and you have to combo it with lightning flash for an almost guaranteed hit. And if you mean for them to actually hit you would usually combo it with Air5 or Earth4 further increasing the cooldown on those bursts dependent on the situation, such as if you used them previously to interrupt or save someone from a stomp. Lightning flash is nice but most builds take almost either full cantrips or full arcane aside from the super yolo glass ele’s which means their survivability is drastically reduced.
What i believe he is trying to say is that they are diferent classes, they rely on diferent mechanics / skills to win the fight.
You cannot compare firegrab to one eviscerate because one set of weapons from elementalist can do much more than one set of weapons from warriors. They got diferent skills / combos. They offer diferent things.
My Warrior was my first char and after that I created the thief almost 2 years ago before the mega nerfs.
Anything else?
This is hilarious a Thief whining about a warrior. LOLYou might have had a thief for 2 year but I highly doubt you’ve ever gotten off your warrior much to learn it, especially since you still have problems with thieves on the most casual profession this game has. Otherwise you wouldn’t be complaining about a squishy profession.
And it is really easy to tell how inexperienced you are since you said:
while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.
In the same timeframe against a stationary target a thief could land 2-3 backstabs to a warrior’s 1 eviscerate. But targets are moving and evading and none of the warrior’s skills require anything aside from adrenaline. So that argument is false.
With proper timing, a warrior can land those hit and deal even more damage than a thief while still maintaining DPS. And while the warrior is 1111111ing away, the thief is spending those 3 seconds positioning themselves to deal almost as much damage as the warrior. Also a thief is useless while in stealth which give players a brief window to come up with countermeasures.
As an added bonus, a warrior can take a backstab alot better than most professions simply because the amount of passives and generous access to every aspect of combat makes it possible.
Maybe you should play a less facerolly profession and go up against people who know what their doing before you start complaining about a profession you can out-DPS.
You really need practice, again L2P
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
eviscerate dos not require positioning nor stealth, it does way more dmg than any GC thief’s backstab and the warrior can TANK wile doing it.
nice try though
You really need practice, again L2P
I could say the same for you and your profession. L2P
If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, you play a thief so I will have to tell you to L2P before posting
Thanks
Also try to land all 3 warrior skill and then come here and let me know, oh wait you can’t because those are from 3 different weapons.
Rifle is very useless for hmm.. let’s see, EVERYTHING
Final Thrust always missed and it never crits and
Evicerate with 7 sec CD that you can dodge.PLease let me know if you can dodge BACKSTAB!
Lets think about some things here. I pretty much only play a D/D thief, so I would definitely say I have a lot of experience with it. You say backstab is OP (got some good laughs out of that thanks), but you’re missing a few key factors. In a fight against a GOOD player, if a thief goes into stealth, they’re not going to remain stationary and let you land a backstab. People move around randomly, in ways that are impossible to predict. They teleport away, dash away, spin away etc. But for the sake of this, lets say the thief is on them and they cannot get away. Thieves try their darned hardest to get behind the enemy, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn’t always happen. Rarely do I land a good backstab into a smart player. I of course do land backstabs from behind, but I also land plenty from the front. Also, after I backstab, whether or not it was from the behind or front, I am revealed for 3s. For a whole 3s I am vulnerable to whatever comes at me. After these 3s, I of course try to go into stealth again. Nowe we come to CnD. With a 1/2s animation, it is 100% dodgeable if you pay attention. It misses. Now I’m down 6 init. This’ll leave me at around 2-3init usually depending on what happened before f course. So we’ll say then that I ahve to wait about 3s to use CnD again, only to possibly have it miss again due to numerous reasons. Eviscerate on the other hand, is just the icing on the cake for axe warriors. Axe mainhand by itself dishes out tons of damage, so if eviscerate misses, eh; it’s not the end of the world. You still have plenty of over damage to rely on.
tl:dr
Thieves (d/d d/p)RELY upon backstab for their high dps. Warriors on the other hand, don’t even need eviscerate to out damage most people. But eviscerate allows them to out damage even more. However the ease of dodging it balances it imo. Backstab is also 100% balanced and if you think otherwise you really ought to try and fight any good player with d/d.
The only problem I have with warriors is how adrenaline is gained with such ease and forcing you into a must dodge on such short intervals. I know I can use cavalier amulet, axe/sword + LB in spvp with intel sigil, pirate rune, 4/0/4/0/6 build, triple stance, and evis crit 5-8k (depending on might stacks and opponent) with ease (don’t forget about fire field from LB, need to dodge arcing arrow and pin down too).
All this while boasting 3.3k armor, base 1950 power, 223% crit, 18k HP, and a heal that requires me only to slot and not use it (no interrupt, no stun, daze etc. counters it… poison counter all heals before you say it, and LB burst skill with ire basically negates poison anyway. I doesn’t need a target dur!). It’s amazing how much pressure you can put on somebody and bring high armor with 3 defensive utilities.
Then add in doing this on Asura for that little extra something.
(edited by Kuju.2153)
If people think backstab is balanced against good players then i dont know what are they doing here talking about eviscerate.
If you miss a backstab or if someone evade / block the attack you can try to do it again until the thief get out of stealth.
Try to do that with eviscerate….
And you can spam backstab more often that eviscerate. Thief have some utilities / traits they can use to gain stealth without losing iniciative.
Both skills are far too much and should be nerfed about 20 % .
Clearly someone doesn’t want his “precious” to be nerfed.
I have yet to be hit by 9-10k backstab, so 15-20k numbers are out of thief reach imo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9d4Og8KbEM
This is footage from a full glass thief. He has to use ALL his utilities to get might/boost to dmg to even get close to warrior numbers, leaving him with almost nothing if his combo fails. All this is from before thie Ferocity patch, and the highest numbers 16k are on some squishy or uplvl guys (not to mention they’re total nubcakes, but it’s just to show the numbers). Now, how many hits will it take to kill 12k hp 1800 armor thief?
Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.
edit:
Because some ppl posting below didn’t seem to have read my previous post, go read it. This is about WvW zerg situations where zerker thief pulling out 16k numbers will just evaporate from few hits.
If you read the part about 1v1, it’s not big problem to beat a warrior.
This is not crying post. This is pointing out at a certain problem with balance of warrior class, just like other people in this thread are trying to point out.
(edited by Atoss.1056)
Eviserates way more balanced than unblockable burn field.
“Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.”
Or when he come back dodge again, or as a thief evade or blind spam him, you choose… You can see the warrior all the time.
I don’t even know why I have to put up with these people, “If I can’t beat it then Anet has to nerf it”.
LOL
I have problems with classes as a warrior but I don’t come here crying every time I lose.
and thieves are one of them and the perma blind, and the only way I can beat them is with Hambow and I’m talking about sPvP now WvW is totally different, all depends how good the players is.
The problem of Eviscerate is the Sigil of Intelligence.
Nope, it is Eviscerate and its ridiculous power scaling. Warriors do too much damage for their amount of HP and armor they have even when running full zerker armor.
Combined with their mobility, immunity skills and blocks and/or stuns their tankyness is not justified anymore by the argument “they mitigate damage by eating damage”.
Their damage is ouright too high, or their mobility. The sigil of intelligence just adds insult to injury; autoattacks alone seem to cleave half the map and hit like a truck.
Nope, it is Eviscerate and its ridiculous power scaling. Warriors do too much damage for their amount of HP and armor they have even when running full zerker armor.
Combined with their mobility, immunity skills and blocks and/or stuns their tankyness is not justified anymore by the argument “they mitigate damage by eating damage”.Their damage is ouright too high, or their mobility. The sigil of intelligence just adds insult to injury; autoattacks alone seem to cleave half the map and hit like a truck.
Nerf Warrior when Necro Pets are down to 3 instead of 10, when Mesmer illusions are down to 2 instead of unlimited illusions, when Thieves have a 5 sec reveal instead of 3 and can’t permanent blind and evade, when Guardians get a little more HP, when Ranger are actually useful and when Elemental are able to Swap weapons ooc.
See the big picture?
No, because you exaggerate. Warriors still do too much damage while being either too tanky or too mobile. Necros still only have 5 pets at max, Mesmers have 3 illusions at max, Thieves are on a 3sec (or 4sec) reveal, Guardians dont need more HP for their crazy amount of sustain. Rangers are useful in both roaming and sPvP.
But i´ll give you the last one – it would be nice to be able to swap entire sets out of combat, not just on Elementalist.
I guess you didn’t the see the point of my comment, do you know how many QQ threads are for every single skill/trait warrior have? Do you know that warrior have the same damage since BETA, so please explain me why all this QQ is coming from? and you probably want warrior back to the way it was before, A FREE KILL!
“Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.”
Or when he come back dodge again, or as a thief evade or blind spam him, you choose… You can see the warrior all the time.
Warriors can do all those thing with just one build. You’re asking a thief to both evade and blind spam which can’t exist in a single build. Then previously you said a thief can land as much dmg with backstab which is a whole other build. Get your facts straight.
An evade thief has the most horrid dmg of them all, a d/p thief can choose to blind spam but it won’t last more than 3 times and he has to remain in a confined area which can be completely countered by /dance outside the blind radius, a full backstab thief has ZERO retreat — it’s a kamikaze build, that is if you want to reach a comparable dmg.
You, sir, are grasping. Backstab thief is annoying but there is much higher risk than an insta gib 12k dmg that homes to target. Anyone with a decent brain knows it. I have 8 lv 80s fully geared and I KNOW it.
Stop deluding yourself… oh .. who am I kidding? right?
“Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.”
Or when he come back dodge again, or as a thief evade or blind spam him, you choose… You can see the warrior all the time.
Warriors can do all those thing with just one build. You’re asking a thief to both evade and blind spam which can’t exist in a single build. Then previously you said a thief can land as much dmg with backstab which is a whole other build. Get your facts straight.
An evade thief has the most horrid dmg of them all, a d/p thief can choose to blind spam but it won’t last more than 3 times and he has to remain in a confined area which can be completely countered by /dance outside the blind radius, a full backstab thief has ZERO retreat — it’s a kamikaze build, that is if you want to reach a comparable dmg.
You, sir, are grasping. Backstab thief is annoying but there is much higher risk than an insta gib 12k dmg that homes to target. Anyone with a decent brain knows it. I have 8 lv 80s fully geared and I KNOW it.
Stop deluding yourself… oh .. who am I kidding? right?
Funny that a warrior can hit with Evicerate run and come back to do it all again? LOL so now we have a new skill called Adrenaline by running? regenerate adrenaline while running.
8 level 80s? WOW no time for PvP huh? Right there.. no experience, I will give you an example: I try to land Evicerate and miss because you dodge, you have 10 whole seconds to land backstab and I can assure you by the time Evicerate is up again I’m sure you will have enough to dodge again.
Anything else?
(edited by xbutcherx.3861)
“Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.”
Or when he come back dodge again, or as a thief evade or blind spam him, you choose… You can see the warrior all the time.
Warriors can do all those thing with just one build. You’re asking a thief to both evade and blind spam which can’t exist in a single build. Then previously you said a thief can land as much dmg with backstab which is a whole other build. Get your facts straight.
An evade thief has the most horrid dmg of them all, a d/p thief can choose to blind spam but it won’t last more than 3 times and he has to remain in a confined area which can be completely countered by /dance outside the blind radius, a full backstab thief has ZERO retreat — it’s a kamikaze build, that is if you want to reach a comparable dmg.
You, sir, are grasping. Backstab thief is annoying but there is much higher risk than an insta gib 12k dmg that homes to target. Anyone with a decent brain knows it. I have 8 lv 80s fully geared and I KNOW it.
Stop deluding yourself… oh .. who am I kidding? right?
Funny that a warrior can hit with Evicerate run and come back to do it all again? LOL so now we have a new skill called Adrenaline by running? regenerate adrenaline while running.
8 level 80s? WOW no time for PvP huh? Right there.. no experience, I will give you an example: I try to land Evicerate and miss because you dodge, you have 10 whole seconds to land backstab and I can assure you by the time Evicerate is up again I’m sure you will have enough to dodge again.
Anything else?
Yes, i believe a switch to GS -> Berserker stance can easily accomplish that. Since usually if you’re trying to get away unhindered (if you didn’t trait for mobile strikes or have -CND food) you’d use Bererker stance to negate the incoming CC. Plus if we miss Evisc as a war we don’t lose the adrenaline and can switch to GS to kite and wait for it to come back up since we’d have the weapon swap ready in less time then our Burst’s CD. It’s pretty easy to do that actually on a A/Sh + GS 6/04/04 build or 4/04/06 depending what you want from traits.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
Who needs to regenerate adrenaline when it didn’t get spent in the first place because Eviscerate was dodged?
Who needs to regenerate adrenaline when it didn’t get spent in the first place because Eviscerate was dodged?
Like how backstab can be dodged? Or you could force a facestab?
Backstab should reveal on miss/block/invul, true. Same as warrior bursts should consume adrenaline when miss/block/invul (with an additional nerf to Cleansing Ire so they are not entirely immune to conditions).
That aside, thieves are still way squishier than warriors, usually die when immobilized or stunned at the right point and need to spend a whole lot of resources more than warriors to burst this high.
That is just the problem, when you dodge anyone else’s burst there is no “don’t worry guys just retry in afew seconds.” The infinate adrenaline and zero cost for being outplayed is what is getting people upset. They have wildly overcompensated with warriors and the defense wall of l2p or “tried dodging?” is a joke. Why try and hide and defelect the clear opness, if you really are the best come down from that high ground and fight on even footing.
Blimey I never thought I’d see the day – warriors and thieves epic QQ battle of who is weaker. xD
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.