Guild Wars 2

Nike.2631:

We’ve already seen that they can wire specific condition removal into the weapon skills. There was an accidentally leaked tool tip for the ranger sword auto-attack that it would remove one stack of bleed on the second attack.

Imagine that tech being applied with real flavor: imagine one of the elementalist’s fire skills removing poison from themselves (purging with flame!) and one of their water weapon skills removing poison. It gives you a reason to use those attacks creatively or to hold them for the combined benefit of its main function and the specific cleanse. Add a warrior attack that lets you “man up” and remove weakness. A Thief attack that doesn’t natively poison, but will transfer a poison from them to the target all “Hey, you dropped something…” style.

These sorts of changes could make both condition dealers and their presumed victims play smarter instead of just nerfing some numbers.

promote active play/counterplay, by tying weaker condition removal to skills that serve other purposes (weapon skills) to go along with more powerful utility skill condi removers. just have to be careful not to have too many “remove 3 condition” skills.

i like it.

then remove conditions from auto attacks, but compensate by slightly increasing stack and/or duration on 2-5 skills and utilities.

Why does the 25 cap even exist in PvE? Removing it would be just as good(?) a solution as nerfing crit damage.

Skweak.7392:

Why does the 25 cap even exist in PvE? Removing it would be just as good(?) a solution as nerfing crit damage.

devs claim it is a technical issue…and thus a necessity.

These boards confuse the heck out of me. From all “experts:” MH axe for warrior is the ONLY weapon and if you use a sword or anything with conditions—-you will be kicked and you are a noob and you will rot in hell. Now I see folks complaining about conditions being powerful, so does that make it ok for a warrior to use a sword(MH or OH)since it offers condition damage? I’m just confused because all I hear is " 30/25/0/0/15 Axe/Mace or GTFO." And that’s considered the ONLY way to play this game.

If conditions are so powerful, wouldn’t this philosophy by these folks be a bit off? ::sigh::
It just seems to me that folks should play how they want. There’s no penalty for dying (this is the proper way to spell dying not “dieing”). Just have fun, and if you die, or wipe on a dungeon so what? What has it cost you? Time? Money? I just don’t understand the gaming community anymore.

Mazdan.2071:

These boards confuse the heck out of me. From all “experts:” MH axe for warrior is the ONLY weapon and if you use a sword or anything with conditions—-you will be kicked and you are a noob and you will rot in hell. Now I see folks complaining about conditions being powerful, so does that make it ok for a warrior to use a sword(MH or OH)since it offers condition damage? I’m just confused because all I hear is " 30/25/0/0/15 Axe/Mace or GTFO." And that’s considered the ONLY way to play this game.

If conditions are so powerful, wouldn’t this philosophy by these folks be a bit off? ::sigh::
It just seems to me that folks should play how they want. There’s no penalty for dying (this is the proper way to spell dying not “dieing”). Just have fun, and if you die, or wipe on a dungeon so what? What has it cost you? Time? Money? I just don’t understand the gaming community anymore.

You’re confusing PvE and PvP.

In PvE conditions are weak, in PvP they are good (some people think they’re too good)

Mazdan.2071:

These boards confuse the heck out of me. From all “experts:” MH axe for warrior is the ONLY weapon and if you use a sword or anything with conditions—-you will be kicked and you are a noob and you will rot in hell. Now I see folks complaining about conditions being powerful, so does that make it ok for a warrior to use a sword(MH or OH)since it offers condition damage? I’m just confused because all I hear is " 30/25/0/0/15 Axe/Mace or GTFO." And that’s considered the ONLY way to play this game.

If conditions are so powerful, wouldn’t this philosophy by these folks be a bit off? ::sigh::
It just seems to me that folks should play how they want. There’s no penalty for dying (this is the proper way to spell dying not “dieing”). Just have fun, and if you die, or wipe on a dungeon so what? What has it cost you? Time? Money? I just don’t understand the gaming community anymore.

This is typical of any MMO community. However, theres an actual reason, this time.

In PVE, conditions are capped. Bleed stacks to 25 and thats it. Often, classes have these minor proc traits that will go off, regardless of build (IE: power builds that have no choice but to pick these up on the way to getting some other trait) that eat up this precious limited resource in terms of DoT DPS potential. Other conditions, such as poison and burning, stack in duration. There are quite a few skills and utilities that apply poison and burning passively, regardless of trait allocation, which also interferes with the dedicated condition users DPS. There is also the fact that your typical condition spec will deal about 3k DPS at the most, while power builds deal about 5k+ DPS.

These conditions that are being applied by power users are #1, taking up room the condition build needs to do DPS with, and #2, are doing base level condition damage since they have 0 condition damage stat. And finally #3, power builds out damage condition builds by a pretty decent margin. There really is absolutely no reason to bring anything but berserker gear to a dungeon, since even if you wear full PTV, bosses still end up one shotting you most of the time, so there is really no point to defensive stats in dungeons.

just because some one killed you 1vs1 with conditions does not mean is op, may be you … your profession can’t handle it properly

Its OP in PvP you get way to much damage as bunker but it still need a big boost in PvE tricky situation for Anet to balance…

and yet the big elephant in the room gets largely ignored , of course im talking about condition removal and stability . and i hear more and more often about how op or bad for the meta is with conditions being so " bad ". funny how most of the complaints come from people who dont even realize they have more ways to remove conditions then they do to apply them .

Actually Conditions need a substantial buff, and a change to their scaling (or the game needs more incentive to do less super-smallscale PvP, I prefer the latter).

In groups, zergs and especially PvE, conditions are really, really weak.

Killface.1896:

Its OP in PvP you get way to much damage as bunker but it still need a big boost in PvE tricky situation for Anet to balance…

Nobody is rolling 5 out of 5 condition classes.

Unlike critical damage, in which all you need to do is close your eyes and swing your weapon away, condition damage requires more dedication in combat. Moreover, there are multiple ways of negating condition damage, that is why in combat condition builds can be ‘worked around’. You can see it in zerg fights, a lot of the condition damage that occurs does not compare with critical damage. In fact, I have only seen conditions being done right when one too many are being applied non stop on top of critical damage. So nerfing condition damage? I don’t see why.

If you want to talk about things that make conditions OP then sure, but the same goes for everything else, so nerfing condition damage will only bring out issues with damage elsewhere.

Put a cap on boon/condition duration (+40%).
Put a cap on boon/condition duration reduction (-40%).
Increase armor on gear.
Increase base critical damage to 100%.
Remove critical damage/ferocity stat.
Remove toughness from armor calculation.
Toughness changed to flat DPS decrease and crit chance reducer.

That should just about fix everything.

Atherakhia.4086:

Put a cap on boon/condition duration (+40%).
Put a cap on boon/condition duration reduction (-40%).

1. Cap already exists (is +100%)
2. Suggestions kill support and control roles even more than they already are in PvE, which is where the concern is centralized for reducing Zerker DPS.

When I say I’m not happy with conditions, I pretty much mean the whole entire condi/removal dynamic. It’s just easier to say ‘conditions’.

Even if they one day managed to achieve perfectly balancing it on the head of a pin, the end result is just not very clutch, deep or satisfying to play.

Anyone who thinks that conditions are in a bad spot has been playing too much PvE.

Flytrap.8075:

Anyone who thinks that conditions are in a bad spot has been playing too much PvE.

To be fair, PvE should also be a focus of balance. It is what the majority of players spend their time on, after all.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Flytrap.8075:

Anyone who thinks that conditions are in a bad spot has been playing too much PvE.

To be fair, PvE should also be a focus of balance. It is what the majority of players spend their time on, after all.

The problem with basing balance decisions on PvE is that the hardcore Fractal Runners will optimize whatever ANet throws at them and something will always be the best option. The elitism will exist no matter what.

If ANet plans on further buffing conditions in order to make them viable in PvE, they need to plan accordingly because it will have terrible consequences in WvW and sPvP where condi-bunker builds already thrive.

lorndarken.3702:

funny how most of the complaints come from people who dont even realize they have more ways to remove conditions then they do to apply them .

As far as I’m aware, there aren’t any autoattacks that remove conditions.

lorndarken.3702:

and yet the big elephant in the room gets largely ignored , of course im talking about condition removal and stability . and i hear more and more often about how op or bad for the meta is with conditions being so " bad ". funny how most of the complaints come from people who dont even realize they have more ways to remove conditions then they do to apply them .

No one “ignores” condition removal in suggestion/complaint threads. In fact, condition removal is one of the most tried counter-arguments people make in those threads which are then replied to and so on. You just have to read past the opening post and the first reply to find such discussions. Second, I’d love to see a build that had the capacity to cleanse 2~4 bleeds+poison+burning (on crit), such is the case with necro scepter auto attack chain, consistently, on top of dealing with other skills and utilities like Signet of Spite.

lorndarken.3702:

and yet the big elephant in the room gets largely ignored , of course im talking about condition removal and stability . and i hear more and more often about how op or bad for the meta is with conditions being so " bad ". funny how most of the complaints come from people who dont even realize they have more ways to remove conditions then they do to apply them .

Euhm…just no…

In zergs there is more condi removal than application yes, that is because most condition removals work in aoe (conditions get removed from 6 people). But when you run in a group around 4 people or less, conditions get applied way way way faster than you can remove. And most people that are complaining are roamers. If you roam you HAVE to go condition spec because that just kitten s people.

Renny.6571:

No one “ignores” condition removal in suggestion/complaint threads. In fact, condition removal is one of the most tried counter-arguments people make in those threads which are then replied to and so on. You just have to read past the opening post and the first reply to find such discussions. Second, I’d love to see a build that had the capacity to cleanse 2~4 bleeds+poison+burning (on crit), such is the case with necro scepter auto attack chain, consistently, on top of dealing with other skills and utilities like Signet of Spite.

Necro burning is being made a lot more predictable in the next patch, so there’s not much point in still using it in these arguments. Scepter auto still deals bleeds + poison, but that’s where the damage of the weapon comes from (to give you a hint, even with a zerker amulet in PvP, about half the total damage still comes from the 0 condition damage bleeds).

And I still have yet to figure out why people make such a huge deal out of Signet of Spite. It is by far the most telegraphed skill in the condition necro’s build, has a 1 minute cooldown, and usually adds one, maybe two conditions to cleanse (bleeds and poison are already on you, Blind gets removed with an auto attack, and you usually are crippled from Flesh Golem or Grasping Dead). You know it’s coming, so just save a dodge/block for it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Renny.6571:

No one “ignores” condition removal in suggestion/complaint threads. In fact, condition removal is one of the most tried counter-arguments people make in those threads which are then replied to and so on. You just have to read past the opening post and the first reply to find such discussions. Second, I’d love to see a build that had the capacity to cleanse 2~4 bleeds+poison+burning (on crit), such is the case with necro scepter auto attack chain, consistently, on top of dealing with other skills and utilities like Signet of Spite.

Necro burning is being made a lot more predictable in the next patch, so there’s not much point in still using it in these arguments. Scepter auto still deals bleeds + poison, but that’s where the damage of the weapon comes from (to give you a hint, even with a zerker amulet in PvP, about half the total damage still comes from the 0 condition damage bleeds).

And I still have yet to figure out why people make such a huge deal out of Signet of Spite. It is by far the most telegraphed skill in the condition necro’s build, has a 1 minute cooldown, and usually adds one, maybe two conditions to cleanse (bleeds and poison are already on you, Blind gets removed with an auto attack, and you usually are crippled from Flesh Golem or Grasping Dead). You know it’s coming, so just save a dodge/block for it.

Signet of Spite is manageable as long as you’re not running into a terror build. Though the bolded is kinda easier said then done. I know on my necro I often set it up with either a immoblize(Tainted Shackles/Dark pact), fear, or golems charge to easily get them with SoS. Also popping it as a fate sealer(people around 40% health). Weakness=Less endurance regen and 50% chance to hit glancing blows, Cripple, poison and the rest acts as covers. This basically makes it really hard to recover from.

Atherakhia.4086:

Put a cap on boon/condition duration (+40%).
Put a cap on boon/condition duration reduction (-40%).
Increase armor on gear.
Increase base critical damage to 100%.
Remove critical damage/ferocity stat.
Remove toughness from armor calculation.
Toughness changed to flat DPS decrease and crit chance reducer.

Hrm, interesting.
I’d go a step further and *remove* Precision as a stat.

Crit-chance would be a balancing tools, some classes would have +5% baseline (thinking of the medium classes right now), others would have -5% base (so 0% total, thinking of the heavy classes).
Then you’d have Fury with it’s +20%, trait line giving +30% at max, and that’s it. Some abilities would then add an inherent +5%-+50% modifier, but these should be very defining abilities only.

Say Warrior Berserker Stance would give +50% chance to crit for 10s, but also +50% chance to be crit and -100% duration to all outgoing conditions and CC effects (you don’t do anything but deal raw damage).

And so on. This’d allow a lot of balancing with critical hits, and would make Fury a *lot* more meaningful.

P.S.: Anyone know how to escape characters on these forums?

Or just learn to make builds properly, and include Condition Removal.

Nike.2631:

We’ve already seen that they can wire specific condition removal into the weapon skills. There was an accidentally leaked tool tip for the ranger sword auto-attack that it would remove one stack of bleed on the second attack.

Imagine that tech being applied with real flavor: imagine one of the elementalist’s fire skills removing poison from themselves (purging with flame!) and one of their water weapon skills removing poison. It gives you a reason to use those attacks creatively or to hold them for the combined benefit of its main function and the specific cleanse. Add a warrior attack that lets you “man up” and remove weakness. A Thief attack that doesn’t natively poison, but will transfer a poison from them to the target all “Hey, you dropped something…” style.

These sorts of changes could make both condition dealers and their presumed victims play smarter instead of just nerfing some numbers.

Well, there’s a much more readily-at-hand example in Warrior’s Warhorn skill Charge! that cleanses only all movement impairing conditions. I really like this idea to proliferate it across condition related skills though!

You say your playing as a theif, and there isn’t enough condition removal.

You have like, a dozen different evades and stealth, and you can have 3 dodges, as opposed to most other classes’ 2 if you go into the Acrobatics trait line. Just don’t get hit in the first place.

Warriors already have Condi removal and mitigation as they are the hardest profession to kill this way. Conditions need a buff not a nerf.

In the defense Trait at 20 skill points in, there is Cleansing Ire which removes a condition for each point of Adrenaline spent.

People really need to understand their professions and build before they start whining about stuff. This is what happened to Rift and the game became so unbalanced.

What is the effective amount of condition damage that you take?

Too often we look at the maximum damage you COULD take.

Condition damage has the widest variety of counters, cleanses and mitigations.
It also occurs over time giving you time to actually counter, cleanse or mitigate if using an active effect.

Physical damage does have counters like dodge (which also works to avoid a condition if timed right even though the tells are better on physical). But those counters are fewer, far more active, and require greater skill. Likewise, ONCE you take the damage you have taken the damage.

So the key metric which we don’t have and I hope ANET does is how much actual damage gets taken of that maximum potential.

I’m not sure that condition damage is actually problematic or when it is.

Condition Damage OP? User experience may vary.

The fact is that condition damage can be OP and then in the next fight it gets countered easily. It is VERY volatile given the number of cleanses, mitigations and cures.

Too often these threads degrade into “you only need one stat” arguments that essentially point to the fact that the condition based damage dealer can also have good defensive abilities. This is true. . . but. . . .

Too often we look at maximum damage output without thinking of the reality of the amount of actual damage that gets eaten. Condition damage is far more susceptible to actually not doing all or most of its potential.

The trouble is there is no clear metric showing players how much potential condition damage they averted. I wish this would be added to the combat log. It would greatly help people start to see whether condition damage really is OP or is just perceived as if it could be OP.

Bombsaway.7198:

Condition Damage OP? User experience may vary.

The fact is that condition damage can be OP and then in the next fight it gets countered easily. It is VERY volatile given the number of cleanses, mitigations and cures.

Too often these threads degrade into “you only need one stat” arguments that essentially point to the fact that the condition based damage dealer can also have good defensive abilities. This is true. . . but. . . .

Too often we look at maximum damage output without thinking of the reality of the amount of actual damage that gets eaten. Condition damage is far more susceptible to actually not doing all or most of its potential.

The trouble is there is no clear metric showing players how much potential condition damage they averted. I wish this would be added to the combat log. It would greatly help people start to see whether condition damage really is OP or is just perceived as if it could be OP.

Yea the combat log could definitely use some upgrades.

Condi damage isn’t the problem, the fact that defense is infinitely more valuable in PvP than offense is the problem. And this is caused by ANets p.o.s. area control win-condition which they refuse to revise in spite of overwhelming evidence that it discourages any variation in play.

Lucentfir.7430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Renny.6571:

No one “ignores” condition removal in suggestion/complaint threads. In fact, condition removal is one of the most tried counter-arguments people make in those threads which are then replied to and so on. You just have to read past the opening post and the first reply to find such discussions. Second, I’d love to see a build that had the capacity to cleanse 2~4 bleeds+poison+burning (on crit), such is the case with necro scepter auto attack chain, consistently, on top of dealing with other skills and utilities like Signet of Spite.

Necro burning is being made a lot more predictable in the next patch, so there’s not much point in still using it in these arguments. Scepter auto still deals bleeds + poison, but that’s where the damage of the weapon comes from (to give you a hint, even with a zerker amulet in PvP, about half the total damage still comes from the 0 condition damage bleeds).

And I still have yet to figure out why people make such a huge deal out of Signet of Spite. It is by far the most telegraphed skill in the condition necro’s build, has a 1 minute cooldown, and usually adds one, maybe two conditions to cleanse (bleeds and poison are already on you, Blind gets removed with an auto attack, and you usually are crippled from Flesh Golem or Grasping Dead). You know it’s coming, so just save a dodge/block for it.

Signet of Spite is manageable as long as you’re not running into a terror build. Though the bolded is kinda easier said then done. I know on my necro I often set it up with either a immoblize(Tainted Shackles/Dark pact), fear, or golems charge to easily get them with SoS. Also popping it as a fate sealer(people around 40% health). Weakness=Less endurance regen and 50% chance to hit glancing blows, Cripple, poison and the rest acts as covers. This basically makes it really hard to recover from.

Any necro skill with a cast time requires you to set it up to have any hope at landing them on your target. Without stability you’ll, at best, probably have a 50% chance at successfully getting off a 1/4-1/2 sec cast skill. Signet of Spite has a 3/4 sec cast and must proceed a fear for the highest success rate. Usually after the enemy has burned their breaks, but mostly after they have burned their heal. There is however extremely rare cases in which Signet of Spite is used at the start of an encounter instead of being used as a finishing move.

Jayce.5632:

Any necro skill with a cast time requires you to set it up to have any hope at landing them on your target. Without stability you’ll, at best, probably have a 50% chance at successfully getting off a 1/4-1/2 sec cast skill. Signet of Spite has a 3/4 sec cast and must proceed a fear for the highest success rate. Usually after the enemy has burned their breaks, but mostly after they have burned their heal. There is however extremely rare cases in which Signet of Spite is used at the start of an encounter instead of being used as a finishing move.

Not many necro skills have a cast time less than 3/4 seconds. I think you meant 1 second to 1-1/4 seconds, as is the case for our heals, Spinal Shivers, and any elite but plague?

General deal remains, though. Doom is basically a prerequisite if we want a particular skill to land.

i think the supposed “fix” for this will be the free trait reset so you can use your condi spec for pvp spvp or whatever or your zerker for pve frac … etc
i don’t see any future real fix for this at least for april 15 update

The actual problem isn’t neither condition damage nor condition removal.

The problem is that certain professions can stack lots of different damage dealing conditions and even if you manage to remove them, they can reapply them in quite short time.

So, I don’t believe that anyone who has some condition removal died from poison, bleed, confusion,torment or burn alone BUT they died from poison+bleed+burn+torment or poison+confusion+burn+bleed…

Still not all professions can do this…

Conditions are the sole reason I do not pvp in wvw or s/tpvp. There are simply too many ways to apply and not enough to cleanse. If there’s an auto attack that can cleanse like there’s auto attacks to apply, then I might try it again, but until the condi meta is fixed, I won’t pvp in any aspect.

thefantasticg.3984:

Conditions are the sole reason I do not pvp in wvw or s/tpvp. There are simply too many ways to apply and not enough to cleanse. If there’s an auto attack that can cleanse like there’s auto attacks to apply, then I might try it again, but until the condi meta is fixed, I won’t pvp in any aspect.

If we translate your desire in a power version then you want an auto attack that heals 2K with each hit withour any investement in healing power. That is insane.

Solori.6025:

oZii.2864:

mrauls.6519:

Confusion needs to be toned down :|

Again? Nobody complains about confusion in spvp so I doing they do a WvW only change since it is a non factor in spvp

Actually Ozii

This was already nerfed in the PvE/WvW side.
The reason people are all of a sudden noticing it now is because of the runes.
and Perplexity Runes are getting nerfed in 2 weeks as well.
SOOOOOO …If people are still having trouble with confusion after the patch, i dont even know what to tell you

the nerf is so small players will still be able to insta slap 22 confusion stacks

conditions are kinda fine necros and mesmers are just broken

there needs some sort of condi damage reduction like Agony but for conditions with a max cap of 30-40% maybe on runes or a gea set so players have to actually trade off some actual stat points and/or rune benefits

Rezzet.3614:

Solori.6025:

oZii.2864:

mrauls.6519:

Confusion needs to be toned down :|

Again? Nobody complains about confusion in spvp so I doing they do a WvW only change since it is a non factor in spvp

Actually Ozii

This was already nerfed in the PvE/WvW side.
The reason people are all of a sudden noticing it now is because of the runes.
and Perplexity Runes are getting nerfed in 2 weeks as well.
SOOOOOO …If people are still having trouble with confusion after the patch, i dont even know what to tell you

the nerf is so small players will still be able to insta slap 22 confusion stacks

That’s a complete lie. Engi still can stack it to 20 but they’re the only class that could ever do that easily. Also the only time that should ever happen is if you aren’t paying attention. If you really think these runes will still be overpowered you have no grasp of how they work. It would be a poor choice to have these runes on classes that don’t already have good access to confusion because you will for sure not be doing much damage with them otherwise.

Raunchy.6891:

That’s a complete lie. Engi still can stack it to 20 but they’re the only class that could ever do that easily. Also the only time that should ever happen is if you aren’t paying attention. If you really think these runes will still be overpowered you have no grasp of how they work. It would be a poor choice to have these runes on classes that don’t already have good access to confusion because you will for sure not be doing much damage with them otherwise.

So tell us how do engies do that? Because this reads to me like your just blowing smoke.

Pry bar = 5 stacks for 5s on a 15s CD
Concussion Bomb = 5 stacks for 5s on a18s CD
Static shot = 2 stacks for 3s on a 15s CD

At best, with 100% condition duration you would have 12 stacks. Even with perplexity they don’t even hit 20 stacks under the most ideal conditions. And that would require you to be hit by 3 very telegraphed skills, right in a row, in a very very short period of time.

Seems a bit silly to claim someone else is lieing then go and do it yourself. And to claim it is “easy”, you clearly know little about the engineer my friend.

With the trait option, I feell like I can apply them much easier with mesmer. Particularly with the on blinding, on shatter, and upon destroying of illusion traits.

coglin.1867:

So tell us how do engies do that? Because this reads to me like your just blowing smoke.

Pry bar = 5 stacks for 5s on a 15s CD
Concussion Bomb = 5 stacks for 5s on a18s CD
Static shot = 2 stacks for 3s on a 15s CD

At best, with 100% condition duration you would have 12 stacks. Even with perplexity they don’t even hit 20 stacks under the most ideal conditions. And that would require you to be hit by 3 very telegraphed skills, right in a row, in a very very short period of time.

Seems a bit silly to claim someone else is lieing then go and do it yourself. And to claim it is “easy”, you clearly know little about the engineer my friend.

With the trait option, I feell like I can apply them much easier with mesmer. Particularly with the on blinding, on shatter, and upon destroying of illusion traits.

You forgot to add the 8 stacks you get (ideally) from Perplexity so yes its 20. It’s not a consistent 20 by any means but it’s still possible so no I’m not lying, do better math. Also it’s an extremely fast rotation to apply all those stacks of confusion (about 1.5 seconds) if you’re good that is. So that’s what I meant by easy to apply.

You’re correct that you can apply confusion easier and more consistently on mesmer, but since mesmers have access to very little conditions it’s impossible to stack more than 10 without having it cleansed by any smart player. Also the way we apply the most stacks of confusion are very telegraphed skills (scepter #3 and CoF).

Rezzet.3614:

there needs some sort of condi damage reduction like Agony but for conditions with a max cap of 30-40% maybe on runes or a gea set so players have to actually trade off some actual stat points and/or rune benefits

It already exists . It’s called rune of melandru.

Its not really the condition damage that is the problem. It is the NUMBER of conditions that can be easily applied without any thought at all. It is just spam, spam, spam. Then we get into Conditional removal which unless specifically built just to counter – not kill just counter condition builds mean you won’t be killing anyone and you will be killed by any hybrid or power build.

Pretty much every condition build has too many conditions, except Ele which have to rely on rune sets and Sigils to grab as many new Conditions as they can. Look what Condi Necro and Engineer can do compared to Condi Ele. Any build that is built for Anti conditions won’t have a problem with Ele because Ele can not spam numerous conditions over and over again. That is how ALL condition builds should be.

Rather than just spamming them from the moment you get into combat it should be about using the RIGHT condition at the RIGHT time. None of this Grenade spamming while at range and then spamming Pistol/Shield and Bombs. Or spamming auto attacks for conditions combined with Signet of Spite.

Conncept.7638:

Condi damage isn’t the problem, the fact that defense is infinitely more valuable in PvP than offense is the problem. And this is caused by ANets p.o.s. area control win-condition which they refuse to revise in spite of overwhelming evidence that it discourages any variation in play.

Well, it makes sense because the “main” PvP mode is about area control but has walls to hide behind.

I’m sure my two favorite condition fans are in here, but I’m just popping in to say conditions, at least chill for eles, need some type of correction. In my opinion, reducing the duration would be fine.

Flat nerfing is just patheticly bad.

Instead, Conditions should be more about DoT – damage over time - longer duration less damage per tick. But it would require:
1. Reducing cleansing abilities across the game
2. Split of Movement Imparing effects such as chill, immobilize, cripple, control ones like Fear, Blind, Weakness, poison possibly from damage ones and allowing to cleanse them in other way.

So in fact: Making it a bit more complicated, closer to GW1 Conditions/Hexes. It also goes against simple game vision design, but hey…

So we’re in deep kitten and have to deal with conditions.

My first step would be to bound conditions to non-spammy atacks (such as engi nades, necro AA etc.), at least condition damage ones and reducing cleansing capability across the game a bit in exchange.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Look what Condi Necro and Engineer can do compared to Condi Ele. Any build that is built for Anti conditions won’t have a problem with Ele because Ele can not spam numerous conditions over and over again. That is how ALL condition builds should be.

and this is the only thing that they can do right now.
chill/cripple(mobility), weakness(vigor), poison(healing abilities), chill/weakness(immunity)