Guild Wars 2

Swim.6830:

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

My necromancer cannot use all my 5 abilities at once either.

@Drarnor
Maybe I’m not reading you right, but, I’m not entirely sure where the disagreement is?

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

…
2) Conditions apply way to fast is like direct damage. You need to use your cleanse smartly not just spam it when you have cripple on you because you don’t like cripple(this happens alot). You don’t heal after you get auto attacked 1 time same thing applies to conditions. Also conditions can be healed through besides cleansed passive healing, regen, and any of your heal skills also help against conditions in addition to your cleanses.
..

haha lol sure. have fun with your melee dps weapon sticking to a ranged condi class appling dmg-condis + soft cc + weakness or any other counter. warrior is the only melee condi-exception. so cripple hurts what build more? or chill? or weakness? does condi-build needs to sacrifies utilities to be able to constantly apply pressure like raw dps?

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

this warrior does not look like he has issues with my condi pressure
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

while these 2 other ones have tons of issues
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859710
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

I used the same build for each of these clips. only 1 out of the many warriors I have faced does not have a L2P issue.

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

I am just giving random examples haha, but this is essentially what it feels like when fighting a full condi class as everything that deals damage stacks.

Vox Hollow.2736:

@Drarnor
Maybe I’m not reading you right, but, I’m not entirely sure where the disagreement is?

The way you presented it made it seem like you were saying “DoT’s are better because if someone runs behind cover, it’s still ticking and can kill” despite the fact a non-over time packet of damage would have already gotten the kill, so the target didn’t even have the option of diving behind cover. Both kinds of attacks still need to land, after all.

Maybe I’m just misinterpreting things, but far too many people in these debates seem to think that “if Direct damage attack deals X, then Condition damage attack deals X+Y over so many seconds” when the reality is “Condition damage attack deals Z+Z+Z+Z+Z which adds up to X.” Heavily simplified, as the condition damage attack still usually deals less damage than the direct damage attack, but you catch my drift.

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

…
2) Conditions apply way to fast is like direct damage. You need to use your cleanse smartly not just spam it when you have cripple on you because you don’t like cripple(this happens alot). You don’t heal after you get auto attacked 1 time same thing applies to conditions. Also conditions can be healed through besides cleansed passive healing, regen, and any of your heal skills also help against conditions in addition to your cleanses.
..

haha lol sure. have fun with your melee dps weapon sticking to a ranged condi class appling dmg-condis + soft cc + weakness or any other counter. warrior is the only melee condi-exception. so cripple hurts what build more? or chill? or weakness? does condi-build needs to sacrifies utilities to be able to constantly apply pressure like raw dps?

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

this warrior does not look like he has issues with my condi pressure
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

while these 2 other ones have tons of issues
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859710
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

I used the same build for each of these clips. only 1 out of the many warriors I have faced does not have a L2P issue.

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

I am just giving random examples haha, but this is essentially what it feels like when fighting a full condi class as everything that deals damage stacks.

well can you imagine how long a single stack of a condition will take to kill you.

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

…
2) Conditions apply way to fast is like direct damage. You need to use your cleanse smartly not just spam it when you have cripple on you because you don’t like cripple(this happens alot). You don’t heal after you get auto attacked 1 time same thing applies to conditions. Also conditions can be healed through besides cleansed passive healing, regen, and any of your heal skills also help against conditions in addition to your cleanses.
..

haha lol sure. have fun with your melee dps weapon sticking to a ranged condi class appling dmg-condis + soft cc + weakness or any other counter. warrior is the only melee condi-exception. so cripple hurts what build more? or chill? or weakness? does condi-build needs to sacrifies utilities to be able to constantly apply pressure like raw dps?

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

this warrior does not look like he has issues with my condi pressure
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

while these 2 other ones have tons of issues
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859710
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

I used the same build for each of these clips. only 1 out of the many warriors I have faced does not have a L2P issue.

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

3. a warrior/mes/thief can burst in 5s with at most 4-5 skills
I used 7+ skills and it took about 15s.

2. not my fault for him not building to face a condi class.
1. he used everything he had to counter a condi class and I dont think I was even close to beating him. ( i have unblockable marks so they dont get blocked by his shield)

hooma.9642:

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

Wait, so you’re saying that in the one video, he got gasp out-played? And he lost pretty badly, even? Oh my gosh, who would have thought that you could beat someone by out-playing them?

And in the second and third videos, he also managed to out-play his opponents (pretty kitten the third one, even). He shouldn’t have been able to win those!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

Wait, so you’re saying that in the one video, he got gasp out-played? And he lost pretty badly, even? Oh my gosh, who would have thought that you could beat someone by out-playing them?

And in the second and third videos, he also managed to out-play his opponents (pretty kitten the third one, even). He shouldn’t have been able to win those!

i dont call it outplayed bursting all the stuff in a blocking enemy or a warrior using zerkerstance. its more bad play on necroside.

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

…
2) Conditions apply way to fast is like direct damage. You need to use your cleanse smartly not just spam it when you have cripple on you because you don’t like cripple(this happens alot). You don’t heal after you get auto attacked 1 time same thing applies to conditions. Also conditions can be healed through besides cleansed passive healing, regen, and any of your heal skills also help against conditions in addition to your cleanses.
..

haha lol sure. have fun with your melee dps weapon sticking to a ranged condi class appling dmg-condis + soft cc + weakness or any other counter. warrior is the only melee condi-exception. so cripple hurts what build more? or chill? or weakness? does condi-build needs to sacrifies utilities to be able to constantly apply pressure like raw dps?

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

this warrior does not look like he has issues with my condi pressure
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

while these 2 other ones have tons of issues
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859710
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

I used the same build for each of these clips. only 1 out of the many warriors I have faced does not have a L2P issue.

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

3. a warrior/mes/thief can burst in 5s with at most 4-5 skills
I used 7+ skills and it took about 15s.

2. not my fault for him not building to face a condi class.
1. he used everything he had to counter a condi class and I dont think I was even close to beating him. ( i have unblockable marks so they dont get blocked by his shield)

3. lol sure they CAN burst quicker. but unless you, they sacrifies more. do u think a burst warrior has all utilities full of stunbreakers? and i hope u know, if u break out of the “setup” they cant burst u down as quick as u killed the last guy.

2. not your fault? do u realize outside of cleansing ire warrior has no real condicleanse?
1. i dont think his build was balanced so i see no point in discussing anything related to that. if u have unblockable marks u should have used them and not pressing all your buttons in deathshroud.

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

I am just giving random examples haha, but this is essentially what it feels like when fighting a full condi class as everything that deals damage stacks.

well can you imagine how long a single stack of a condition will take to kill you.

Yes true and I don’t want to rebalance conditions this way, but they should be looked at. As they can kill about as fast as zerker, while having much more survival and utility in most cases. The only drawback are the countering anti-condition classes and Lyssa runes that will get nerfed anyway.

I am not a dev so can’t suggest any improvements but the current state is obviously not good if this thread exists in the first place with so many pages.

hooma.9642:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

Wait, so you’re saying that in the one video, he got gasp out-played? And he lost pretty badly, even? Oh my gosh, who would have thought that you could beat someone by out-playing them?

And in the second and third videos, he also managed to out-play his opponents (pretty kitten the third one, even). He shouldn’t have been able to win those!

i dont call it outplayed bursting all the stuff in a blocking enemy or a warrior using zerkerstance. its more bad play on necroside.

so your telling me that if I just ran around his zerkerstance I would have won?
lol. I was countered, Plain and simple. did I get mad or make a rage thread about condition counters.. nope.

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

I am just giving random examples haha, but this is essentially what it feels like when fighting a full condi class as everything that deals damage stacks.

well can you imagine how long a single stack of a condition will take to kill you.

Yes true and I don’t want to rebalance conditions this way, but they should be looked at. As they can kill about as fast as zerker, while having much more survival and utility in most cases. The only drawback are the countering anti-condition classes and Lyssa runes that will get nerfed anyway.

I am not a dev so can’t suggest any improvements but the current state is obviously not good if this thread exists in the first place with so many pages.

in wvw the counter will be meladru and -40% condi duration.
I have already face classes like this and I dont have a very good record with them compared to those who use other runes/food.

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

oh and 3 burst classes? i doubt it. if u think clearly about your composition u will see that the dmg-part is more on condiside. and dont come and tell me you having hambow and this is a pure raw-dmg dealer.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

oh and 3 burst classes? i doubt it. if u think clearly about your composition u will see that the dmg-part is more on condiside. and dont come and tell me you having hambow and this is a pure raw-dmg dealer.

1 burst and 2 bunker/ sustain dps.

hooma.9642:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

Wait, so you’re saying that in the one video, he got gasp out-played? And he lost pretty badly, even? Oh my gosh, who would have thought that you could beat someone by out-playing them?

And in the second and third videos, he also managed to out-play his opponents (pretty kitten the third one, even). He shouldn’t have been able to win those!

i dont call it outplayed bursting all the stuff in a blocking enemy or a warrior using zerkerstance. its more bad play on necroside.

You mean using the unblockable marks and Dark Path on a blocking enemy? The blocking barely even came into play, though it did stop a nicely predicted Doom.

As for using Zerker stance, it was being activated after Tainted Shackles to prevent the Torment and Immobilize, as well as more or less turn off any incoming attacks.

TLDR: The Warrior countered and out-played the supposedly OP condition Necro and, as a result, won at full health.

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

oh and 3 burst classes? i doubt it. if u think clearly about your composition u will see that the dmg-part is more on condiside. and dont come and tell me you having hambow and this is a pure raw-dmg dealer.

1 burst and 2 bunker/ sustain dps.

so we count 2 condi-dmg dealer against 1 burst and 2 bunker. mmh somehow i think u cant count if u really mean your raw-dmg builds is the most used dmg-src.

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Looking up the But of Corpse (all necro guild) on the leaderboards, I see that Brando.1374 is in the 90th percentile for TPvP. Brando and oZii are in the same guild.

So he knows exactly what he is talking about, as they are competing at the top 10% in team arenas. You, however, clearly do not.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Looking up the But of Corpse (all necro guild) on the leaderboards, I see that Brando.1374 is in the 90th percentile for TPvP. Brando and oZii are in the same guild.

So he knows exactly what he is talking about, as they are competing at the top 10% in team arenas. You, however, clearly do not.

I dont really spvp/tpvp. I play wvw which is where GF was created.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

Brando.1374:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Looking up the But of Corpse (all necro guild) on the leaderboards, I see that Brando.1374 is in the 90th percentile for TPvP. Brando and oZii are in the same guild.

So he knows exactly what he is talking about, as they are competing at the top 10% in team arenas. You, however, clearly do not.

I dont really spvp/tpvp. I play wvw which is where GF was created.

Strange that the leaderboards have you ranked so high in tPvP, then.
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/pvp/guild/But%20Of%20Corpse

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brando.1374:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Looking up the But of Corpse (all necro guild) on the leaderboards, I see that Brando.1374 is in the 90th percentile for TPvP. Brando and oZii are in the same guild.

So he knows exactly what he is talking about, as they are competing at the top 10% in team arenas. You, however, clearly do not.

I dont really spvp/tpvp. I play wvw which is where GF was created.

Strange that the leaderboards have you ranked so high in tPvP, then.
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/pvp/guild/But%20Of%20Corpse

guess your right then. I almost never check where I am on the leader boards.

Hayashi.3416:

A maxed direct damage warrior does 8073.5 dps before buffs from party members.
A maxed bleed-spec (3000 condi damage stat in the most extreme builds possible) warrior does 4800 dps max via bleed before buffs from party members. Adding direct component and miscellaneous conditions (I’m looking at you, Rune of Perplexity) they cannot breach 6000 no matter what.
Direct damage has no cap, condition damage does have a stack limit.
Direct already has a great damage advantage in return for sacrificing survivability while Dire-specced condition builds have less damage for much more survivability.
People who can’t calculate should not attempt to balance the game.
[/thread]

P.S. The warrior’s Deep Cuts IS OP beyond a doubt, looking at the duration increase relative to any other rune or any trait in any other class for conditions. That trait can be nerfed to 20% if you want.

You forgot to mention the conditions dot nature. ;D

@OP:

You need to specify the game mode….

In PvE: Conditions need to be buffed
In PvP: Conditions need to be nerfed
In WvW: Conditions need to be nerfed

When I play a Condi Necro, it often can’t kill nearly as quickly as my Power Necro. It depends on the target, but in many cases, I can destroy someone given “ideal” conditions in maybe 4-5 seconds as Power. With a Condi Necro, if I get full stacks up, it might be 4-5 seconds before they drop, but that’s after casting every ability and hoping they don’t clear any. It just feels “safer” as a Condi Necro because people seem wildly averse to bringing Condi removal.

Except this one Mesmer I fought today, who appeared to use Arcane Thievery while I had Plague Signet up. I can only imagine the sadness that set in after I just turned them all back on her again.

Anyway, @Swim, it’s inevitable that you’ll have condis against basically any Necro. One of the keys to your success is learning when to clear them and when to use your boons. A Necro is going to want to first and foremost convert/rip Stability off of you, and you can use that to your advantage. Blow your Stability, then maybe .5 – 1 seconds later throw a dodge in. Often if the Necro is on muscle memory, they’ll Corrupt Boon around then and then curse because you dodged it.

If you’re trying to out-condi a Necro, well, you get to deal with the implications of that. You’re entering the Necro domain. It’s like if I tried to straight-up out-muscle a Warrior. It isn’t happening, and in my opinion, it shouldn’t. That’s the Necro wheelhouse, so of course you’re going to get your condis back. You have to know how to deal with it as part of the encounter, just how a Necro has to know how to deal with Zerker Stance and dodging stuns appropriately.

And 5 pages is a drop in the bucket. The forums will house a complaint about everything. Every class, every form of damage, almost every build that kills them they’ll complain about. That doesn’t mean the current state isn’t good, that means people are upset, which is going to happen when you have a large sample size of players.

It doesn’t mean the current state IS good either, but I personally don’t think it’s that bad. I dealt with condis during the dark days of Warrior. Not perfectly, but I managed. You just have to put some effort into it and sometimes make sacrifices. If you didn’t have to make any sacrifices to deal with condition damage, then it would be a terribly underpowered mechanic.

One issue I have with conditions is that there are fewer ways to defend against it than direct damage. Both Vitality and toughness help mitigate direct damage, while only Vitality helps against condition damage. Sure, you can get -% condition duration food, but oftentimes, the enemy is running +% condition duration runes and food, while with direct damage, one could use protection and weakness to defend themselves, Although vulnerability and might could overcome these two active defenses, it is not easy to do, and you still have both toughness and vitality passively defending you. Also, many would not consider it sensible to run Melandru’s and -% condition duration food because you lose too much damage potential by doing this (this is true for both condition and power builds, though certain builds still benefit more from -% condition duration than additional power). One could also say it is not sensible to go out of your way to get weakness or protection, but even without those, you still have two built in stats (vitality and toughness) to keep you safe from power-based damage, aside from only vitality protecting you from condition-based damage. Also, every character has an option of several built in heal skills. Among those, only one, for the most part, will remove conditions. On the other hand, almost all heal skills (except the really bad ones) can take care of power-based damage without the fear of the healing being completely negated in a few seconds (unless fighting outnumbered, or against a full zerk build). I personally think the way toughness and vitality works needs to be improved so that it actually has meaning in PvE and can more reliably fend off conditions. In addition, while I find every class to have many options to deal with power based damage without too much sacrifice (except for eles, who only have a few, but they’re too busy traiting to counter conditions to make use of most of them), a character may have to invest into traitlines, runes, and/or food that only lowers their damage, which hinders them further when trying out-damaging the common tanky condition builds (excluding warriors, who are blessed with cleansing ire to deal with all damage). Not to say conditions are broken, though. I think with enough experience, one could learn to beat any foe condition or power, as long as they have a few defensive tools to use against both.

I tried to make this as clean and self-proven as possible, so as to not get my head ripped of by peers. XD

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

yeah perma aoe burning 3xx dmg with 0 condi dmg is so bad its not even worth to be considered, thats why u compare them to single bleed stacks or poison . wow impressive. since when does blind and cripple do dmg or shut a condition range spammer down?

Cecilia.5179:

One issue I have with conditions is that there are fewer ways to defend against it than direct damage. Both Vitality and toughness help mitigate direct damage, while only Vitality helps against condition damage. Sure, you can get -% condition duration food, but oftentimes, the enemy is running +% condition duration runes and food, while with direct damage, one could use protection and weakness to defend themselves, Although vulnerability and might could overcome these two active defenses, it is not easy to do, and you still have both toughness and vitality passively defending you. Also, many would not consider it sensible to run Melandru’s and -% condition duration food because you lose too much damage potential by doing this (this is true for both condition and power builds, though certain builds still benefit more from -% condition duration than additional power). One could also say it is not sensible to go out of your way to get weakness or protection, but even without those, you still have two built in stats (vitality and toughness) to keep you safe from power-based damage, aside from only vitality protecting you from condition-based damage. Also, every character has an option of several built in heal skills. Among those, only one, for the most part, will remove conditions. On the other hand, almost all heal skills (except the really bad ones) can take care of power-based damage without the fear of the healing being completely negated in a few seconds (unless fighting outnumbered, or against a full zerk build). I personally think the way toughness and vitality works needs to be improved so that it actually has meaning in PvE and can more reliably fend off conditions. In addition, while I find every class to have many options to deal with power based damage without too much sacrifice (except for eles, who only have a few, but they’re too busy traiting to counter conditions to make use of most of them), a character may have to invest into traitlines, runes, and/or food that only lowers their damage, which hinders them further when trying out-damaging the common tanky condition builds (excluding warriors, who are blessed with cleansing ire to deal with all damage). Not to say conditions are broken, though. I think with enough experience, one could learn to beat any foe condition or power, as long as they have a few defensive tools to use against both.

I tried to make this as clean and self-proven as possible, so as to not get my head ripped of by peers. XD

on the flip side you get more/better boosts to your damage: fury( arguable but is better for power builds), retalition , vulenerability, … .

The problem in PVE is that hard cap on stacks.

Given that this mostly happens when a group is fighting a single big mob, said mob could have something applied that make maxed out stacks flare and reset. This allowing conditions to be and alternative to DD crit spam.

In PVP, the problem seems to be how easily attackers can refresh conditions after a cleanse. Meaning that there is no tactical plays to be had.

This is a harder nut to crack, especially with weapons that constantly apply conditions on #1 chains (never mind condition on crit traits in combo with high crit builds).

And the issue seems to be exasperated by damage and control being intermixed under the condition umbrella, and that most cleanses only remove a few conditions at a time.

Honestly not sure how to go about it.

Tim.6450:

on the flip side you get more/better boosts to your damage: fury( arguable but is better for power builds), retalition , vulenerability, … .

I forgot about fury and retaliation, but as I said (not directly), there’s a counter to every power-based buff. Weakness can be used to counter fury, not to mention the critical damage nerf coming up. I also remember reading somewhere that you can simply dodge after doing damage to avoid retaliation (not to mention how uncommon it is), but I have not tested to see if it is true. As stated by Coglin, you can use condition duration foods and runes to double your existing condition damage (twice the time, twice the damage), which, in my opinion, is far better than any buff a power-based build can give. Critical damage is reliant off of both precision and power and much harder to get a 100% boost on, especially after the nerf.

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

yeah perma aoe burning 3xx dmg with 0 condi dmg is so bad its not even worth to be considered, thats why u compare them to single bleed stacks or poison . wow impressive. since when does blind and cripple do dmg or shut a condition range spammer down?

conditions without condition damage hit like wet noodles.
Blind will not shut down anyone at range, but s/tpvp is all about being on point so range isnt ideal besides your roaming glass cannon should be able to disrupt/stomp the condition spammer.

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

yeah perma aoe burning 3xx dmg with 0 condi dmg is so bad its not even worth to be considered, thats why u compare them to single bleed stacks or poison . wow impressive. since when does blind and cripple do dmg or shut a condition range spammer down?

conditions without condition damage hit like wet noodles.
Blind will not shut down anyone at range, but s/tpvp is all about being on point so range isnt ideal besides your roaming glass cannon should be able to disrupt/stomp the condition spammer.

lol sure. maybe u should change to eu to actually learn something about that game if u really think that.

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

yeah perma aoe burning 3xx dmg with 0 condi dmg is so bad its not even worth to be considered, thats why u compare them to single bleed stacks or poison . wow impressive. since when does blind and cripple do dmg or shut a condition range spammer down?

conditions without condition damage hit like wet noodles.
Blind will not shut down anyone at range, but s/tpvp is all about being on point so range isnt ideal besides your roaming glass cannon should be able to disrupt/stomp the condition spammer.

lol sure. maybe u should change to eu to actually learn something about that game if u really think that.

pay for the gems and ill move over

Cecilia.5179:

I forgot about fury and retaliation, but as I said (not directly), there’s a counter to every power-based buff. Weakness can be used to counter fury, not to mention the critical damage nerf coming up. I also remember reading somewhere that you can simply dodge after doing damage to avoid retaliation (not to mention how uncommon it is), but I have not tested to see if it is true. As stated by Coglin, you can use condition duration foods and runes to double your existing condition damage (twice the time, twice the damage), which, in my opinion, is far better than any buff a power-based build can give. Critical damage is reliant off of both precision and power and much harder to get a 100% boost on, especially after the nerf.

You can’t with alone food ,runes and trait stats to double your duration , you can do it of one condition (like bleed) to 100% but not all. You need food runes, traits and either a sigil or oil/crystal/sharpening stone to reach 100% condition duration. And that is your limit, power does not have that limitation.
Even with 100% duration the damage of a condition user is not double you forget the power damage part which may not be forgotten and cleansing will be more effective.

Let’s see the maximum amount of feriocity by gear and traits and food (100 ferocity) is 1145 which results in an increase of 76 crit damage so that means that you critical hits strike for 126% more damage. With a critical hit chance of 54% you wil hit for 68,04% or (93,24% with fury) more damage still lower then the 100% for conditions. Now you need a damage boost of 20% (1.6804 *1,2 = 201,648%) to reach beyond 100% with fury you only need 4%. So even if you don’t take fury your damage can be boosted beyond 100%. This is pure stat based there some traits which have tremendous amount of inluence on your power damage like deathly precision( 50% crit chance while in death shroud).

To me, conditions should have stayed in the realm of debuff’s and the big word “control”. As soon as the dev’s ventured deeply into conditions as another form of damage, they created an imbalance. We should have a passive form of reduction just as our armor does for power damage. Dire stats are WAY more powerful than PTV gear as well. Showing the imbalances between power vs. condition damage.

For balancing, WvW needs to be the top priority. As that’s where everything scales up, showing imbalances far easier than in s/tPvP.

Terrahero.9358:

Kyon.9735:

Aberrant.6749:

Kyon.9735:

Aberrant.6749:

Inaccurate… damage wise you need power/pre/crit dmg Vs. Cond/Pre/cond duration.

Depending on class the pre is extremely important. The burn from IP on eng is a large part of their damage. The classes that don’t have these sorts of things have other issues such as not being able to apply enough conditions to prevent cleansing.

The toughness/vit is needed more with a cond class because you need to be able to stay alive while the dot’s tick and be able to re-apply them as they are cleansed. Should those two stats be given for free on all armors as well? No, because you have similar tradeoffs with both power and cond.

Crit damage applies to all damage regardless while condition duration needs to hit the next 1s mark to do anything at all.

Damage wise power does more damage than conditions, but conds get other control benefits instead.

Seems pretty well balanced to me as is and I use both power and cond builds on a daily basis.

PvP-wise, most condi players especially engis don’t even take condi duration runes. It’s only “needed” in WvW because people use -Condi Duration food.

With the ease of applying conditions, all you need to do is apply a condi and go defensive as you watch your target waste his cleanses then you will simply reapply them again and go defensive.

Look at the PvP trinkets. Soldier, Barbarian, and Valkyrie amulets will never be fully utilized because it will always lack Precision or Crit Damage stat. Rabid, Carrion, and Settler however are deadly as they are even without Condi Duration or Precision.

PvP wise often they do. Getting +50% burn duration on Eng is huge. It’s not uncommon for an eng to take a sigil for +10% burning to hit that with traits + runes. Nightmare runes are common amongst many cond builds. It’s also a consideration when you’re building your trait-lines.

It’s not just spam conds then go defensive. That only works at lower stuff/hotjoin. There are so many ways that conds can get wiped/reduced/avoided it’s not even funny. You need to apply/reapply them at the right times to get the effects you need when you need them.

Conds also take longer Vs. Direct damage. In PvP this translates into longer times needed to kill & cap/decap points which translates into score.

If you don’t have pre you’re not getting the on crit procs. If you don’t have duration they’ll fall off faster due to reduction (again lower damage).

Still not seeing any problems.

So you say Condi Duration is a “needed” stat yet there are no trinkets that offer +condi duration which probably proves +condi duration is not considered a primary stat. Even without +Condi Duration, condis are very deadly in PvP.

And yes, from time to time you’ll find people running Nightmare Runes or Sigil of Smoldering but most of the time you’d see people use Runes of Adventurer or Sigil of Battle (especially on engis). The +Condi Duration bonus from traits are more than enough.

There are weapons with condition duration.

Its not an easy stat t come by, but it most certainly detracts from the total budget a player has to spend. (weapons + armor + trinkets + runes + sigils).

Runes spend on getting one thing are not being spend to get another. If i get condition duration from runes, i am not getting crit damage.

We were talking about PvP so I only mentioned trinkets. Let’s face it, cheesy builds in PvP are way cheesier in WvW because of Food and Gear optimization. Just look at the +Condi Duration food. It buffs both Offensive (Bleed, Burn, etc) and Defensive/Snare conditions (Immobilize, Cripple, Weakness, Chill) on top of giving you +70 condition damage. No Power based Food will give you both Offensive and Defensive bonuses in a single effect.

IMO the real reason why players take +40% condi duration food is that it buffs your offensive and defensive condis on top of +70 Condition Damage. The other reason is that many players use -40% condi duration food and it gives you a really big advantage against players who don’t use that food.

DeWolfe.2174:

To me, conditions should have stayed in the realm of debuff’s and the big word “control”. As soon as the dev’s ventured deeply into conditions as another form of damage, they created an imbalance. We should have a passive form of reduction just as our armor does for power damage. Dire stats are WAY more powerful than PTV gear as well. Showing the imbalances between power vs. condition damage.

I am going to quote you on this matter from another thread of this identical content.

DeWolfe.2174:

What did you post to “prove” your point? You simply gave an unsubstantiated opinion. So please do continue trying to defend your point of view without justification as well.

Aberrant.6749:

So… still no build showing what you’re claiming?

Ok, I’ll be on my way then.

Enjoy the errmagersh cond OP rants without basis.

What builds did you post to “prove” your point? You simply gave an unsubstantiated opinion. So please do continue trying to defend your point of view without justification as well.

DeWolfe.2174:

What builds did you post to “prove” your point? You simply gave an unsubstantiated opinion. So please do continue trying to defend your point of view without justification as well.

Wait, what? Isn’t that exactly what you did here.

DeWolfe.2174:

Snip of unsubstantiated claims.

in this thread

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Condition-is-out-of-control/3873585/quote

Tim.6450:

You can’t with alone food ,runes and trait stats to double your duration , you can do it of one condition (like bleed) to 100% but not all. You need food runes, traits and either a sigil or oil/crystal/sharpening stone to reach 100% condition duration. And that is your limit, power does not have that limitation.
Even with 100% duration the damage of a condition user is not double you forget the power damage part which may not be forgotten and cleansing will be more effective.

Let’s see the maximum amount of feriocity by gear and traits and food (100 ferocity) is 1145 which results in an increase of 76 crit damage so that means that you critical hits strike for 126% more damage. With a critical hit chance of 54% you wil hit for 68,04% or (93,24% with fury) more damage still lower then the 100% for conditions. Now you need a damage boost of 20% (1.6804 *1,2 = 201,648%) to reach beyond 100% with fury you only need 4%. So even if you don’t take fury your damage can be boosted beyond 100%. This is pure stat based there some traits which have tremendous amount of inluence on your power damage like deathly precision( 50% crit chance while in death shroud).[/quote]

Wow, I was about to make a response, then I realized I walked in a circle and forgot what I was arguing. XD
Condition is not over powered or broken. Each class has decent ways to respond to conditions (Except rangers, who don’t want to go 30 into defensive lines, or stand in a little circle for all of their condition cleanses when they’re running a glassy power build) and as with power builds, you need to take options to defend against them, and if you don’t, you are asking to be killed by them.

@Drarnor

Oh, no, no.
When I’m mentioning cover; that’s purely a description of how other games operate, to give some idea of how other games make condition application meaningful and interesting. I’m not saying this currently happens in GW2 in any way shape or form. Just the opposite really, my stance is that this game’s condition-stuff is a bit on the dull side.

Personally, I quit trying to argue about the time when I posted an analysis comparing two damage types, and the response I got was “nuh uh! I posted proof against this”, and I can’t find their example.