Guild Wars 2

1) Add a 1s Pre-cast
2) Add a telegraph similar to Pin Down
3) Reduce range by 300 – 600 units
4) Increase recharge by 2 seconds
5) Remove vulnerability

There. Rapid Fire fixed.

It’s now easily dodgeable, requires some cost to the ranger, has the same recharge as a single dodge and doesn’t also stack vulnerability. It retains the same damage output and cast time and can still be used to snipe targets. Overall functionality is exactly the same.

And before the Rapid Fire Defence Force comes in with the arguments only Hotjoin Heroes would use:

Reflects are not a proper defence, as their recharge times are typically 30 – 40s and few classes have access to them
Dodging skills like Rapid Fire requires an actual telegraph
Volley does not do the same or more damage
Kill shot does not do the same or more damage
1500 Range does not allow for gap closing
Stability is not a valid counter to PBS given the recharge time
A skill with this much damage requires some kind of cost to use

So, any objections? As far as I’m concerned these changes would fix the weapon and make it reasonably balanced.

Rapid fire is well telegraphed. Numbers start to flash and your combat log shows the skill. If you have better reflexes as a dead fish and you was unprepared you can dodge the 3rd hit. Its still a 2 and a half sec cast and human reflexes are 0.2 seconds
My 2 cents: the skill is too long, hard to dodge with 1 dodge. Reduce the casting time

McWolfy.5924:

Rapid fire is well telegraphed. Numbers start to flash and your combat log shows the skill. If you have better reflexes as a dead fish and you was unprepared you can dodge the 3rd hit. Its still a 2 and a half sec cast and human reflexes are 0.2 seconds
My 2 cents: the skill is too long, hard to dodge with 1 dodge. Reduce the casting time

I imagine a flashing numbers, a player trying to read the combat log in battle. Before he finishes reading the log he’s dead.

I think switching RF with Hunter Shot might fix this problem overal.
The cooldown should be greater for a powerfull skill like this; about 15s?
Now give Hunter Shot a shorter cooldown to give the ranger more defence (which still requires you to hit something). And only the good rangers will make sure RF actually hit. And they will probably have to weapon swap more often to get the same damage output. Instead of GS → flee

So you want to make it weaker than before, when nearly no one used it?
I’m sorry, but get your head out, the game is not just sPvP and your precious under-sized tPvP where balance cannot exist because each team is too small for the classes to be reasonably designed.

Rapid Fire is just a typical high risk high reward skill. One reflect on someone even standing nearby, and that ranger is dead. Plus unless he catches you with your endurance down, you will only take 1,0~1,5 seconds of it, every time, reliably. So actually the skill deals 40%-60% of what it says on the tin. And that’s on the first cast. Afterwards you focus on it, you’ll see the arrows flying off, you can dodge right away, avoiding 80% reliably.
Bonus points if you’re a Mesmer, dodge backwards, the clone eats the final arrow.

Yes, yes, I know, tPvP, constant 1v1 combat, yadda yadda. Simple look at skills, specs and classes (their number) versus team size already makes unbalanced tPvP a given, and any skill reasonably designed for PvE or WvW balance will be unbalanced there by nature of how skills in class-based games are to be balanced.

ANet, please balance for actual RPG-like player versus player (and design for it, too, because it needs some attention :P ), not the mess which is this arena-wannabe tPvP. It doesn’t even feel like a RPG any more.

Avoiding Rapid Fire in 5 Easy Steps

1) l2p
2) use your brain
3) dodge/ block/teleport/stealth/reflect/daze/stun/fear/knockback/knockdown/pull/apply retaliation/apply protection/apply burst to fold the ranger/use LoS/use evade skills.
4) Lol.
5) Lel.

If step 3 doesn’t work for you, repeat steps 1-2.
There, fixed.

McWolfy.5924:

My 2 cents: the skill is too long, hard to dodge with 1 dodge. Reduce the casting time

This & not this also. I men, experienced players will surely dodge it and have no problem at all with that, but what about new levels who see 8k damage in less than 2 seconds (and from 1500 range)?

Well by that logic, it was made much easier to dodge with this update. So all is good?

Just calling it as I see it and not inputting my own opinion about RF. This is all just generalized and can pretty much be applied to every class that got called OP( that’s not to say some things really weren’t OP or that things that were called OP really weren’t).

When class A is considered OP by almost everyone, players of Class A defend it and say l2p, then provide flimsy counters that work in an ideal situation.

Then, in the long term, When Class A gets nerfed, players of Class A that defended it either ditch the class completely or complain that it is now unplayable, and start calling classes B-H OP instead, and so the cycle continues.

Also, just a point I’d like to make with regards to all the flimsy counters to RF. Stealth does not counter RF, channeled skills do not lose their target when it enters stealth. At best, it just makes them wait until your stealth fades to cast RF.

But you know, when all else fails and logic is against whatever class you happen to be defending, L2P and L2Dodge are always valid arguments.

Carighan.6758:

Rapid Fire is just a typical high risk high reward skill. One reflect on someone even standing nearby, and that ranger is dead.

That’s simply utter BS. I had a lot of fun with RF lately and people constantly try to reflect it. One button (store weapon) or one dodge, if you already fired a couple of arrows and don’t want to eat them, is enough. You have to be afk to die by your own RF. I do think Op went overboard with his suggestions but do not try to fool people by claiming RF is high risk when it is obviously not. I never downed fleeing people so easily with backstabs.

Carighan.6758:

Rapid Fire is just a typical high*Low* risk high reward skill. One reflect on someone even standing nearby, and that ranger is dead.

Fixed.

The reflect is the high risk and high reward because it has a higher cooldown. One misjudgement means that rapid fire can hit you for 3-4 times safely before the next reflect is up depending on the class.

A ranger with a brain can simply just cancel rapid fire even if it was perfectly timed.

5 steps to fixing Rapid Fire:

1) Dodge
2) Duck
3) Dip
4) Dive
5) Dodge

MarauderShields.6830:

Carighan.6758:

Rapid Fire is just a typical high risk high reward skill. One reflect on someone even standing nearby, and that ranger is dead.

That’s simply utter BS. I had a lot of fun with RF lately and people constantly try to reflect it. One button (store weapon) or one dodge, if you already fired a couple of arrows and don’t want to eat them, is enough. You have to be afk to die by your own RF. I do think Op went overboard with his suggestions but do not try to fool people by claiming RF is high risk when it is obviously not. I never downed fleeing people so easily with backstabs.

You also have to be afk to die to someone elses rapid fire.

It still amazes me how everybody is going for RF and not the (for anyone thinking about it) way more obvious, overpowered Signets (looking at you SotW and SoS)

Signets are not OP.

SoStone: 80s CD, no stun breaker, 6s duration
EPain: 60s CD, stun breaker, 4s duration

SotW: 60s CD, 8s stability and extra damage, cast time and not a stun breaker

Doesn’t really matter since u can use SoS WHILE stunned and it has it’s passive effect.
Assassin’s signet (can use it twice in the time u use 1 SotW), so 10 Attacks +15% damage vs 8 seconds of 25% damageboost + Stability.

You say in the OP that RF and Volley are different, but if you compare a fully traited RF to a fully traited Volley and ignore the impact of vulnerability, the damage gap between the 2 skills is quite small.

Given that Rifle has vuln on another attack and the full volley will benefit from the damage as opposed to only about 7% of the RF’s damage, mechanically they’re very similar.

So changing RF using any of your criteria, let alone all of them, is absurd. At most, we’d expect a mere 5-10% damage nerf. But seeing as how the game has survived 2 years with volley, and 1 year with the current RF (+QZ which made it identical to today without QZ), it doesn’t seem warranted.

Instead, why not remove osme of the things that dramatically inflate Rf’s damage? Like 25% from SotW which is nearly double the effectiveness of any other % damage multiplying signet in the game?

The problem is not rapid fire alone.

Its everything else as well. Knockback, stealth, heavy damage AA on longbow, 2 pets with individual CC, second weapon sets with 2 different weapon options to quickly create distance, invulnerability signet, easy accessible CC or more utlility skills to create gaps easy.

Its not that you cant kill an ranger if you get close and CC him, its the amount of tools he has to maintain his comfortable range. Rapid fire deals the highest burst damage currently on the game, from a extreme range with a short cooldown.

It has no real counter. Not every class has access to reflect or blocks. Not every class has reliable gap closers. Not every class has stealth or escape skills. Not every class has reliable ranged damage.

Brujeria.7536:

The problem is not rapid fire alone.

Its everything else as well. Knockback, stealth, heavy damage AA on longbow, 2 pets with individual CC, second weapon sets with 2 different weapon options to quickly create distance, invulnerability signet, easy accessible CC or more utlility skills to create gaps easy.

None of this is new. Why weren’t these a problem for you 2 weeks ago?

Brujeria.7536:

Its not that you cant kill an ranger if you get close and CC him, its the amount of tools he has to maintain his comfortable range. Rapid fire deals the highest burst damage currently on the game, from a extreme range with a short cooldown.

Wait.. what? It’s the highest burst in game now? I’ll just add that to the list of ridiculous things people have said about rangers lately.

It has no real counter. Not every class has access to reflect or blocks. Not every class has reliable gap closers. Not every class has stealth or escape skills. Not every class has reliable ranged damage.

The counters have been listed many times over. You just listed several of them in that quote. Each class doesn’t have access to all of the counters but they each have access to at least 1. The choice is use them and laugh at how fast the glass rangers die or cry on the forums. 1 of these choices will make you a better player, the other involves crying, choose wisely.

How can it be ‘everything else’ when everything else existed before this change and Rangers were undeniably a free kill to every class in the game? The change to RF is just that good that it was the tipping point the class needs? And if so, why haven’t we seen Rangers dominating anything since the update?

The only thing Rangers really got, other than the RF change, is the change to signets. Only one of which reallly has any impact on damage.

As to the ‘not every class’ argument, the only class that’s truly at a significant disadvantage when it comes to being able to counter the power Ranger’s playstyle is Necromancers. But they also have great access to conditions which the spec is notoriously weak against. Plus they’re ranged.

Do you have an example of a class that doesn’t have enough tools at their disposal to close the gap initially and reclose it once every 10 seconds for however long it takes to deal with a glass ranger?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

The problem is not rapid fire alone.

Its everything else as well. Knockback, stealth, heavy damage AA on longbow, 2 pets with individual CC, second weapon sets with 2 different weapon options to quickly create distance, invulnerability signet, easy accessible CC or more utlility skills to create gaps easy.

None of this is new. Why weren’t these a problem for you 2 weeks ago?

Brujeria.7536:

Its not that you cant kill an ranger if you get close and CC him, its the amount of tools he has to maintain his comfortable range. Rapid fire deals the highest burst damage currently on the game, from a extreme range with a short cooldown.

Wait.. what? It’s the highest burst in game now? I’ll just add that to the list of ridiculous things people have said about rangers lately.

It has no real counter. Not every class has access to reflect or blocks. Not every class has reliable gap closers. Not every class has stealth or escape skills. Not every class has reliable ranged damage.

The counters have been listed many times over. You just listed several of them in that quote. Each class doesn’t have access to all of the counters but they each have access to at least 1. The choice is use them and laugh at how fast the glass rangers die or cry on the forums. 1 of these choices will make you a better player, the other involves crying, choose wisely.

They werent a problem because the damage was rather justified for the range and amount of defensive measures the longbow delivered. All it needed was a slight channel reduction and thats it. Along with the trait changes and signet changes this made it vastly overpowered.

And yes, rangers currently have the highest burst, at the biggest range with a very short cooldown, furthermore many flat % damage increase modifiers, on demand quickness, stability and a 25% damage increase from signets if they wish to, in any gamemode but PVE their burst it by far the most reliable, constistend and safest to use. These are no exaggerations, these are facts. Look at the base damage, look at the modifiers, look at the uptimes, look at the general damage increase via traits and skills.

There is currently no counter option for necromancers against any halfway decent ranger. Regardless of condi or power necro. Stop bullkittenting, youre obviously a ranger player.

Atherakhia.4086:

How can it be ‘everything else’ when everything else existed before this change and Rangers were undeniably a free kill to every class in the game? The change to RF is just that good that it was the tipping point the class needs? And if so, why haven’t we seen Rangers dominating anything since the update?

The only thing Rangers really got, other than the RF change, is the change to signets. Only one of which reallly has any impact on damage.

As to the ‘not every class’ argument, the only class that’s truly at a significant disadvantage when it comes to being able to counter the power Ranger’s playstyle is Necromancers. But they also have great access to conditions which the spec is notoriously weak against. Plus they’re ranged.

Do you have an example of a class that doesn’t have enough tools at their disposal to close the gap initially and reclose it once every 10 seconds for however long it takes to deal with a glass ranger?

What does “long range” conditions or damage help at all, if the rangers “long range” is just 800 units bigger then the max range of other classes? Glass rangers are easy to kill when you get close and keep at it, its the sheer amount of tools the ranger kit offers to create distance, both regarding CCing the enemy and movement skills.

Necromancers currently have no reliable means of getting close. Mesmers (unless some PU cheesy thing) may have gap closers and some reliable long range damage, but rangers just have flat out more damage and more range as well as more tools to creating distance.

In the end it was the many small things that all caused a power increase to the longbow ranger to create this powercreep.

Brujeria.7536:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

The problem is not rapid fire alone.

Its everything else as well. Knockback, stealth, heavy damage AA on longbow, 2 pets with individual CC, second weapon sets with 2 different weapon options to quickly create distance, invulnerability signet, easy accessible CC or more utlility skills to create gaps easy.

None of this is new. Why weren’t these a problem for you 2 weeks ago?

Brujeria.7536:

Its not that you cant kill an ranger if you get close and CC him, its the amount of tools he has to maintain his comfortable range. Rapid fire deals the highest burst damage currently on the game, from a extreme range with a short cooldown.

Wait.. what? It’s the highest burst in game now? I’ll just add that to the list of ridiculous things people have said about rangers lately.

It has no real counter. Not every class has access to reflect or blocks. Not every class has reliable gap closers. Not every class has stealth or escape skills. Not every class has reliable ranged damage.

The counters have been listed many times over. You just listed several of them in that quote. Each class doesn’t have access to all of the counters but they each have access to at least 1. The choice is use them and laugh at how fast the glass rangers die or cry on the forums. 1 of these choices will make you a better player, the other involves crying, choose wisely.

They werent a problem because the damage was rather justified for the range and amount of defensive measures the longbow delivered. All it needed was a slight channel reduction and thats it. Along with the trait changes and signet changes this made it vastly overpowered.

And yes, rangers currently have the highest burst, at the biggest range with a very short cooldown, furthermore many flat % damage increase modifiers, on demand quickness, stability and a 25% damage increase from signets if they wish to, in any gamemode but PVE their burst it by far the most reliable, constistend and safest to use. These are no exaggerations, these are facts. Look at the base damage, look at the modifiers, look at the uptimes, look at the general damage increase via traits and skills.

There is currently no counter option for necromancers against any halfway decent ranger. Regardless of condi or power necro. Stop bullkittenting, youre obviously a ranger player.

I have every profession leveled to 80 primarily through WvW roaming. I actually have 2 rangers, 1 condi and 1 power. What I don’t have is a problem killing glass rangers with any of my characters, even my necro.

necro’s can use minions to LoS, use either of their 1200 range teleports to close the gap (I know the teleports are lackluster but they do exist) or just dodge roll/face tank the damage in DS to get in 1200 range and then melt then with conditions. I’ve killed dozens of rangers with my necro since the patch.

If you really want to complain about a hard counter try playing as an engi vs a necro.

Brujeria.7536:

They werent a problem because the damage was rather justified for the range and amount of defensive measures the longbow delivered. All it needed was a slight channel reduction and thats it. Along with the trait changes and signet changes this made it vastly overpowered.

And yes, rangers currently have the highest burst, at the biggest range with a very short cooldown, furthermore many flat % damage increase modifiers, on demand quickness, stability and a 25% damage increase from signets if they wish to, in any gamemode but PVE their burst it by far the most reliable, constistend and safest to use. These are no exaggerations, these are facts. Look at the base damage, look at the modifiers, look at the uptimes, look at the general damage increase via traits and skills.

There is currently no counter option for necromancers against any halfway decent ranger. Regardless of condi or power necro. Stop bullkittenting, youre obviously a ranger player.

Where did you get your facts, in the cereals box ?

I hope you are kidding btw.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

The problem is not rapid fire alone.

Its everything else as well. Knockback, stealth, heavy damage AA on longbow, 2 pets with individual CC, second weapon sets with 2 different weapon options to quickly create distance, invulnerability signet, easy accessible CC or more utlility skills to create gaps easy.

None of this is new. Why weren’t these a problem for you 2 weeks ago?

Brujeria.7536:

Its not that you cant kill an ranger if you get close and CC him, its the amount of tools he has to maintain his comfortable range. Rapid fire deals the highest burst damage currently on the game, from a extreme range with a short cooldown.

Wait.. what? It’s the highest burst in game now? I’ll just add that to the list of ridiculous things people have said about rangers lately.

It has no real counter. Not every class has access to reflect or blocks. Not every class has reliable gap closers. Not every class has stealth or escape skills. Not every class has reliable ranged damage.

The counters have been listed many times over. You just listed several of them in that quote. Each class doesn’t have access to all of the counters but they each have access to at least 1. The choice is use them and laugh at how fast the glass rangers die or cry on the forums. 1 of these choices will make you a better player, the other involves crying, choose wisely.

They werent a problem because the damage was rather justified for the range and amount of defensive measures the longbow delivered. All it needed was a slight channel reduction and thats it. Along with the trait changes and signet changes this made it vastly overpowered.

And yes, rangers currently have the highest burst, at the biggest range with a very short cooldown, furthermore many flat % damage increase modifiers, on demand quickness, stability and a 25% damage increase from signets if they wish to, in any gamemode but PVE their burst it by far the most reliable, constistend and safest to use. These are no exaggerations, these are facts. Look at the base damage, look at the modifiers, look at the uptimes, look at the general damage increase via traits and skills.

There is currently no counter option for necromancers against any halfway decent ranger. Regardless of condi or power necro. Stop bullkittenting, youre obviously a ranger player.

I have every profession leveled to 80 primarily through WvW roaming. I actually have 2 rangers, 1 condi and 1 power. What I don’t have is a problem killing glass rangers with any of my characters, even my necro.

necro’s can use minions to LoS, use either of their 1200 range teleports to close the gap (I know the teleports are lackluster but they do exist) or just dodge roll/face tank the damage in DS to get in 1200 range and then melt then with conditions. I’ve killed dozens of rangers with my necro since the patch.

If you really want to complain about a hard counter try playing as an engi vs a necro.

I do know its possible to beat them, but only if the ranger does not know what to do. You can trick them with spectral walk, or with a wurm teleport, but any smart ranger can see it easily coming and waiting for it to wear of and simply knocking you back after the wurm port, wurm has a 40 second cooldown, the knockback has much less.

I am not talking about the rangers that just stand still and press 2 and then use 5 and call it a day, im talking about rangers that know their skillset and play it to the most efficient point.

Even if you should manage to facetank with DS to get close they can always switch to GS and leap away, leaving you in DS wasting your lifeforce by decay as well as reseting the fight – and the rangers cooldowns for creating space are much shorter then any means a necromancer could bring to close the gap.

Brujeria.7536:

Atherakhia.4086:

How can it be ‘everything else’ when everything else existed before this change and Rangers were undeniably a free kill to every class in the game? The change to RF is just that good that it was the tipping point the class needs? And if so, why haven’t we seen Rangers dominating anything since the update?

The only thing Rangers really got, other than the RF change, is the change to signets. Only one of which reallly has any impact on damage.

As to the ‘not every class’ argument, the only class that’s truly at a significant disadvantage when it comes to being able to counter the power Ranger’s playstyle is Necromancers. But they also have great access to conditions which the spec is notoriously weak against. Plus they’re ranged.

Do you have an example of a class that doesn’t have enough tools at their disposal to close the gap initially and reclose it once every 10 seconds for however long it takes to deal with a glass ranger?

What does “long range” conditions or damage help at all, if the rangers “long range” is just 800 units bigger then the max range of other classes? Glass rangers are easy to kill when you get close and keep at it, its the sheer amount of tools the ranger kit offers to create distance, both regarding CCing the enemy and movement skills.

Necromancers currently have no reliable means of getting close. Mesmers (unless some PU cheesy thing) may have gap closers and some reliable long range damage, but rangers just have flat out more damage and more range as well as more tools to creating distance.

In the end it was the many small things that all caused a power increase to the longbow ranger to create this powercreep.

Again, you’re grossly inflating the values of these tools. Aside from easy access to signets, the Ranger gained no utility/defense skills in this patch. All they gained was burst on RF that’s only slightly more powerful than volley is for a rifle warrior.

If Ranger survivability was even a fraction of what you’re trying to convince us it is, the class wouldn’t be (and still is) the laughing stock of WvW, GvGs, and Guild groups. Even in PvP people are mentioning they’re seeing no new Rangers in higher ranked matches.

What you’re trying to sell us doesn’t mesh with what people are actually seeing in game.

Brujeria.7536:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

The problem is not rapid fire alone.

Its everything else as well. Knockback, stealth, heavy damage AA on longbow, 2 pets with individual CC, second weapon sets with 2 different weapon options to quickly create distance, invulnerability signet, easy accessible CC or more utlility skills to create gaps easy.

None of this is new. Why weren’t these a problem for you 2 weeks ago?

Brujeria.7536:

Its not that you cant kill an ranger if you get close and CC him, its the amount of tools he has to maintain his comfortable range. Rapid fire deals the highest burst damage currently on the game, from a extreme range with a short cooldown.

Wait.. what? It’s the highest burst in game now? I’ll just add that to the list of ridiculous things people have said about rangers lately.

It has no real counter. Not every class has access to reflect or blocks. Not every class has reliable gap closers. Not every class has stealth or escape skills. Not every class has reliable ranged damage.

The counters have been listed many times over. You just listed several of them in that quote. Each class doesn’t have access to all of the counters but they each have access to at least 1. The choice is use them and laugh at how fast the glass rangers die or cry on the forums. 1 of these choices will make you a better player, the other involves crying, choose wisely.

They werent a problem because the damage was rather justified for the range and amount of defensive measures the longbow delivered. All it needed was a slight channel reduction and thats it. Along with the trait changes and signet changes this made it vastly overpowered.

And yes, rangers currently have the highest burst, at the biggest range with a very short cooldown, furthermore many flat % damage increase modifiers, on demand quickness, stability and a 25% damage increase from signets if they wish to, in any gamemode but PVE their burst it by far the most reliable, constistend and safest to use. These are no exaggerations, these are facts. Look at the base damage, look at the modifiers, look at the uptimes, look at the general damage increase via traits and skills.

There is currently no counter option for necromancers against any halfway decent ranger. Regardless of condi or power necro. Stop bullkittenting, youre obviously a ranger player.

I have every profession leveled to 80 primarily through WvW roaming. I actually have 2 rangers, 1 condi and 1 power. What I don’t have is a problem killing glass rangers with any of my characters, even my necro.

necro’s can use minions to LoS, use either of their 1200 range teleports to close the gap (I know the teleports are lackluster but they do exist) or just dodge roll/face tank the damage in DS to get in 1200 range and then melt then with conditions. I’ve killed dozens of rangers with my necro since the patch.

If you really want to complain about a hard counter try playing as an engi vs a necro.

I do know its possible to beat them, but only if the ranger does not know what to do. You can trick them with spectral walk, or with a wurm teleport, but any smart ranger can see it easily coming and waiting for it to wear of and simply knocking you back after the wurm port, wurm has a 40 second cooldown, the knockback has much less.

I am not talking about the rangers that just stand still and press 2 and then use 5 and call it a day, im talking about rangers that know their skillset and play it to the most efficient point.

Even if you should manage to facetank with DS to get close they can always switch to GS and leap away, leaving you in DS wasting your lifeforce by decay as well as reseting the fight – and the rangers cooldowns for creating space are much shorter then any means a necromancer could bring to close the gap.

So your complaint is about rangers that outplay you. All of this has nothing to do with the patch, this was just as easy for a good ranger to do before. Just like a good necro could find a way to beat a ranger before.

The big difference is rangers are actually easier for a necro to beat then before because you can dodge through more of rapid fire.

Necro main here just want to pop in and say I am still waiting for RF or a LB power ranger to kill me – Please Nerf for easier faceroll

Atherakhia.4086:

Again, you’re grossly inflating the values of these tools. Aside from easy access to signets, the Ranger gained no utility/defense skills in this patch. All they gained was burst on RF that’s only slightly more powerful than volley is for a rifle warrior.

If Ranger survivability was even a fraction of what you’re trying to convince us it is, the class wouldn’t be (and still is) the laughing stock of WvW, GvGs, and Guild groups. Even in PvP people are mentioning they’re seeing no new Rangers in higher ranked matches.

What you’re trying to sell us doesn’t mesh with what people are actually seeing in game.

They did not get more means of defense, but the means they already got are much more valueable due to the increased damage potential.

WvW is very much about survivability, ranger in its current state does this with his range. Its easily to get separated from the zerg if you maintain your range, thus you loose on the might stacks, healing, the overall hp buffer of many clustered people.

Also these things take time to evolve into spvp. I remember minion master has been there since launch, it took this game years to actually consider this build for pvp – even though cheesy it does work. It is also very limited here because its about capture and holding points – from a pvp perspective the rangers tools dont help all that much because creating space meaning further off point, but once they add another game more, or for general wvw roaming these balance is toxic and vastly overpowered.

This build is dangerous to low mobility condi bunkers and anyone running full glass. It makes people run more balanced builds and actually put some consideration into ways of countering ranged weapons.

Rangers aren’t OP because they are still easy to kill if you know what you are doing. All this is doing is shaking up the roaming meta, which is something the game needed.

Brujeria.7536:

but once they add another game more, or for general wvw roaming these balance is toxic and vastly overpowered.

If LB ranger are OP what about perplexity engineer, PU mesmer, perplexity thief, fearmancer and all those condi bunker specs ?

I sometimes play a fearmance with signet of spike in 1v1 and people die in few seconds, should we nerf necro ? I mean, it has best Hp in game, many sources of fear, death shroud, it can cast more condition than most classes can clean, there’s no counterplay, it’s OP.

Atherakhia.4086:

Brujeria.7536:

Atherakhia.4086:

How can it be ‘everything else’ when everything else existed before this change and Rangers were undeniably a free kill to every class in the game? The change to RF is just that good that it was the tipping point the class needs? And if so, why haven’t we seen Rangers dominating anything since the update?

The only thing Rangers really got, other than the RF change, is the change to signets. Only one of which reallly has any impact on damage.

As to the ‘not every class’ argument, the only class that’s truly at a significant disadvantage when it comes to being able to counter the power Ranger’s playstyle is Necromancers. But they also have great access to conditions which the spec is notoriously weak against. Plus they’re ranged.

Do you have an example of a class that doesn’t have enough tools at their disposal to close the gap initially and reclose it once every 10 seconds for however long it takes to deal with a glass ranger?

What does “long range” conditions or damage help at all, if the rangers “long range” is just 800 units bigger then the max range of other classes? Glass rangers are easy to kill when you get close and keep at it, its the sheer amount of tools the ranger kit offers to create distance, both regarding CCing the enemy and movement skills.

Necromancers currently have no reliable means of getting close. Mesmers (unless some PU cheesy thing) may have gap closers and some reliable long range damage, but rangers just have flat out more damage and more range as well as more tools to creating distance.

In the end it was the many small things that all caused a power increase to the longbow ranger to create this powercreep.

Again, you’re grossly inflating the values of these tools. Aside from easy access to signets, the Ranger gained no utility/defense skills in this patch. All they gained was burst on RF that’s only slightly more powerful than volley is for a rifle warrior.

If Ranger survivability was even a fraction of what you’re trying to convince us it is, the class wouldn’t be (and still is) the laughing stock of WvW, GvGs, and Guild groups. Even in PvP people are mentioning they’re seeing no new Rangers in higher ranked matches.

What you’re trying to sell us doesn’t mesh with what people are actually seeing in game.

Straight up lies. Rangers have always been a very good option, at least for roaming. Case in point: Gladomer. Just because not many people play Ranger doesn’t mean it’s under powered. There were many very skilled rangers I came into contact with on a daily basis. Even in Tpvp I would occasionally find excellent rangers. Among “top tier” Tpvp There has been a humongous influx of rangers. Unless you’re referring to sub 100, you’re flat out lying. For the most part I Tpvp every day (Team arena or solo queue depending on the day) and I generally sit around 200-300 rank in team arena and 500-600 in solo arena. Just yesterday I played two matches while queued up for Archeage. The first match there were three rangers on my team, and two on the enemy team. The second match there were two rangers on my team and two on the enemy team. This has been my experience ever since the patch.

The guy above said that rangers have the “highest burst.” That isn’t true because fresh air Ele’s can burst for insane damage right? Well sure, many classes can, but not by pushing one freaking button! Rangers just press two and hope for the best. If it’s reflected they dodge backward, use a few skills to distance themselves, and then press two again and hope for the best. The point is that the skill has a very short cool down, practically no telegraph, and the capability to reduce your hp by 33-50%. These three factors make it unfair. Before the patch, we could tank the first few arrows while closing in. Now, it’s simply too much to tank and forces us to use a counter. But how does one counter a skill that keeps reappearing every 10 seconds and bursts for 8k? You would have to have constant access to dodges, gap closers, reflects, stability, etc.

Personally I think that is too much to ask for just one skill. What’s the solution? Ultimately I believe the solution is just a longer cool down. Make it 20-30 seconds and I’m down. I mean so far I’ve seen rangers kill good players from 1,000-1,500 range and they don’t even need to swap weapons. That’s balanced?

i think necro and thief working together is more a pain then a few rangers

maby some off you have seen it in Eotm thief cloak necro and necro use allot of fear on the right spots when all pll fall of the cliff tada all death

there you have it the ultimate weapon to get a easy kills

its all about working together and am sure you guys can figure it out how to do that
also vs ranger

Ranger working with mesmer or turret engi is the new meta in PvP. Daze, knockdown, root rapid fire, shatter.

Kills you in 2 seconds max.

thief is stile the best pvp class to sneak around with out any1 see him he can easy kill a ranger ore a mesmer

some classes can block rapid fire skills with there schield/spell
like guardian ore eng

ranger are mostly far away but if any dont look more where they are then yes a ranger have it easy

if i play ranger am far away from the zerg vs orther zerg and they don’t even see me
so its rely not the ranger is op its because pll don’t pay attention to things in the area

when you play a FPS you always need a good eye open for snipers they hide everywhere
its the same with ranger now

look around more send a thief to his spot a ranger never see him coming

MightyMicah.7451:

Atherakhia.4086:

Brujeria.7536:

Atherakhia.4086:

How can it be ‘everything else’ when everything else existed before this change and Rangers were undeniably a free kill to every class in the game? The change to RF is just that good that it was the tipping point the class needs? And if so, why haven’t we seen Rangers dominating anything since the update?

The only thing Rangers really got, other than the RF change, is the change to signets. Only one of which reallly has any impact on damage.

As to the ‘not every class’ argument, the only class that’s truly at a significant disadvantage when it comes to being able to counter the power Ranger’s playstyle is Necromancers. But they also have great access to conditions which the spec is notoriously weak against. Plus they’re ranged.

Do you have an example of a class that doesn’t have enough tools at their disposal to close the gap initially and reclose it once every 10 seconds for however long it takes to deal with a glass ranger?

What does “long range” conditions or damage help at all, if the rangers “long range” is just 800 units bigger then the max range of other classes? Glass rangers are easy to kill when you get close and keep at it, its the sheer amount of tools the ranger kit offers to create distance, both regarding CCing the enemy and movement skills.

Necromancers currently have no reliable means of getting close. Mesmers (unless some PU cheesy thing) may have gap closers and some reliable long range damage, but rangers just have flat out more damage and more range as well as more tools to creating distance.

In the end it was the many small things that all caused a power increase to the longbow ranger to create this powercreep.

Again, you’re grossly inflating the values of these tools. Aside from easy access to signets, the Ranger gained no utility/defense skills in this patch. All they gained was burst on RF that’s only slightly more powerful than volley is for a rifle warrior.

If Ranger survivability was even a fraction of what you’re trying to convince us it is, the class wouldn’t be (and still is) the laughing stock of WvW, GvGs, and Guild groups. Even in PvP people are mentioning they’re seeing no new Rangers in higher ranked matches.

What you’re trying to sell us doesn’t mesh with what people are actually seeing in game.

Straight up lies. Rangers have always been a very good option, at least for roaming. Case in point: Gladomer. Just because not many people play Ranger doesn’t mean it’s under powered. There were many very skilled rangers I came into contact with on a daily basis. Even in Tpvp I would occasionally find excellent rangers. Among “top tier” Tpvp There has been a humongous influx of rangers. Unless you’re referring to sub 100, you’re flat out lying. For the most part I Tpvp every day (Team arena or solo queue depending on the day) and I generally sit around 200-300 rank in team arena and 500-600 in solo arena. Just yesterday I played two matches while queued up for Archeage. The first match there were three rangers on my team, and two on the enemy team. The second match there were two rangers on my team and two on the enemy team. This has been my experience ever since the patch.

You’ve seen this with power builds?

And in WvW, GvGs, or GvZ?

Now who’s lying…

And no, a 30 second cooldown isn’t suitable. Again, we can draw a direct comparison between RF and Volley. They are nearly identical skills now and it’s impossible for one to be as overpowered as people alledge and the other to be perfectly fine.

Especially when you consider the power Ranger’s standing before the update. From total obscurity to a top tier wrecking ball?

IF the damage is a problem, it’s more likely a result of SotW and not the skill itself.

sminkiottone.6972:

Brujeria.7536:

but once they add another game more, or for general wvw roaming these balance is toxic and vastly overpowered.

If LB ranger are OP what about perplexity engineer, PU mesmer, perplexity thief, fearmancer and all those condi bunker specs ?

I sometimes play a fearmance with signet of spike in 1v1 and people die in few seconds, should we nerf necro ? I mean, it has best Hp in game, many sources of fear, death shroud, it can cast more condition than most classes can clean, there’s no counterplay, it’s OP.

These builds are strong as well, but still they have counter play. EVERY class has access to both stunbreaks and condition clears. There is no counterplay if you cant even REACH your enemy, WHILE hes doing stupidly high damage. The range indicated on Longbow traited is 1500, but its actually much more, this combined with the high speed and velocity of the shots makes it very reliable. Sure you can dodge, but so can the ranger dodge any CC or Gapcloser you aim at them, and even if you keep your dodges for the rapid fire, the AA damage alone is enough to wither you down until the next Rapid Fire is up, all while you have a pet next to you fearing rooting and knocking you down while even doing damage on top.

I would just be thrilled if attacks that started channeling before stealthing WOULD NOT KEEP HITTING YOU WHILE YOU’RE STEALTHED.

It’s just silly that it works this way.

This goes for all class’s skills that do this and for all stealths (Thief, Ranger, Engi, Mesmer, Etc.)

Atherakhia.4086:

MightyMicah.7451:

Atherakhia.4086:

Brujeria.7536:

Atherakhia.4086:

How can it be ‘everything else’ when everything else existed before this change and Rangers were undeniably a free kill to every class in the game? The change to RF is just that good that it was the tipping point the class needs? And if so, why haven’t we seen Rangers dominating anything since the update?

The only thing Rangers really got, other than the RF change, is the change to signets. Only one of which reallly has any impact on damage.

As to the ‘not every class’ argument, the only class that’s truly at a significant disadvantage when it comes to being able to counter the power Ranger’s playstyle is Necromancers. But they also have great access to conditions which the spec is notoriously weak against. Plus they’re ranged.

Do you have an example of a class that doesn’t have enough tools at their disposal to close the gap initially and reclose it once every 10 seconds for however long it takes to deal with a glass ranger?

What does “long range” conditions or damage help at all, if the rangers “long range” is just 800 units bigger then the max range of other classes? Glass rangers are easy to kill when you get close and keep at it, its the sheer amount of tools the ranger kit offers to create distance, both regarding CCing the enemy and movement skills.

Necromancers currently have no reliable means of getting close. Mesmers (unless some PU cheesy thing) may have gap closers and some reliable long range damage, but rangers just have flat out more damage and more range as well as more tools to creating distance.

In the end it was the many small things that all caused a power increase to the longbow ranger to create this powercreep.

Again, you’re grossly inflating the values of these tools. Aside from easy access to signets, the Ranger gained no utility/defense skills in this patch. All they gained was burst on RF that’s only slightly more powerful than volley is for a rifle warrior.

If Ranger survivability was even a fraction of what you’re trying to convince us it is, the class wouldn’t be (and still is) the laughing stock of WvW, GvGs, and Guild groups. Even in PvP people are mentioning they’re seeing no new Rangers in higher ranked matches.

What you’re trying to sell us doesn’t mesh with what people are actually seeing in game.

Straight up lies. Rangers have always been a very good option, at least for roaming. Case in point: Gladomer. Just because not many people play Ranger doesn’t mean it’s under powered. There were many very skilled rangers I came into contact with on a daily basis. Even in Tpvp I would occasionally find excellent rangers. Among “top tier” Tpvp There has been a humongous influx of rangers. Unless you’re referring to sub 100, you’re flat out lying. For the most part I Tpvp every day (Team arena or solo queue depending on the day) and I generally sit around 200-300 rank in team arena and 500-600 in solo arena. Just yesterday I played two matches while queued up for Archeage. The first match there were three rangers on my team, and two on the enemy team. The second match there were two rangers on my team and two on the enemy team. This has been my experience ever since the patch.

You’ve seen this with power builds?

And in WvW, GvGs, or GvZ?

Now who’s lying…

And no, a 30 second cooldown isn’t suitable. Again, we can draw a direct comparison between RF and Volley. They are nearly identical skills now and it’s impossible for one to be as overpowered as people alledge and the other to be perfectly fine.

Especially when you consider the power Ranger’s standing before the update. From total obscurity to a top tier wrecking ball?

IF the damage is a problem, it’s more likely a result of SotW and not the skill itself.

Its the fact that the range is much higher, and the weapon set boasts even more tools to maintain that range. The OP doesnt come from this skill alone, its the weaponset in general. To balance rapid fire for this amount of power and survivability in the ranger longbow set you would need to reduce its damage by ~ 40% as well as increasing the cooldown by 40%.

mexay.3902:

1) Add a 1s Pre-cast
2) Add a telegraph similar to Pin Down
3) Reduce range by 300 – 600 units
4) Increase recharge by 2 seconds
5) Remove vulnerability

There. Rapid Fire fixed.

It’s now easily dodgeable, requires some cost to the ranger, has the same recharge as a single dodge and doesn’t also stack vulnerability. It retains the same damage output and cast time and can still be used to snipe targets. Overall functionality is exactly the same.

And before the Rapid Fire Defence Force comes in with the arguments only Hotjoin Heroes would use:

Reflects are not a proper defence, as their recharge times are typically 30 – 40s and few classes have access to them
Dodging skills like Rapid Fire requires an actual telegraph
Volley does not do the same or more damage
Kill shot does not do the same or more damage
1500 Range does not allow for gap closing
Stability is not a valid counter to PBS given the recharge time
A skill with this much damage requires some kind of cost to use

So, any objections? As far as I’m concerned these changes would fix the weapon and make it reasonably balanced.

noob

Brujeria.7536

Its the fact that the range is much higher, and the weapon set boasts even more tools to maintain that range. The OP doesnt come from this skill alone, its the weaponset in general. To balance rapid fire for this amount of power and survivability in the ranger longbow set you would need to reduce its damage by ~ 40% as well as increasing the cooldown by 40%.

And again I can’t help but question why?

What class are you playing where the Ranger has enough tools to maintain a range advantage against you? Because it can’t be Thief, Warrior, or Ele. It can’t be Engi, Mesmer or Ranger because they’re all ranged classes. This leaves Guardians, which should have very little difficulty against Rangers or Necromancer which were designed specifically to be the slowest class in the game.

We already know the damage isn’t the problem because Volley does the same damage and have similar vulnerability effectiveness despite the attacks being split. Both weapons also have a knockback which you’re now aledging is the problem, but instead of nerfing that to be 600 range instead of 900, you’re still harping on RF.

I’m just not seeing it, and I honestly feel RF is a bit much, but what everyone’s proposing in this thread is the absolutely destruction of a class that has been absolutely useless as a power build for 2 years and has only been barely functional (no where near competetive) for a week.

Want to be realistic?

Drop RF’s damage by about 5-10% so it is about equal to volley at that point.

Change SotW to only 10% for the Ranger instead of 25%.

Put the telegraph on PBS so it’s more easily recognized at a distance (someone mentioned the black arrow disappears with the EE trait, I’ve never tested?).

Change ALL projectiles (including Engineer grenades, Necro fields will now despawn/fade, traps etc) to be much closer to their identified max range.

And that’s it. The class will continue to be trash like you want it to be because it’s now a 1 trick pony for ranged burst and ANet can ignore all the remaining legitimate issues like they’ve done the past 2 years and we’ve now covered every legitimate argument that has been raised in this thread and every other over the past week.

Hepatolith.6389:

Doesn’t really matter since u can use SoS WHILE stunned and it has it’s passive effect.
Assassin’s signet (can use it twice in the time u use 1 SotW), so 10 Attacks +15% damage vs 8 seconds of 25% damageboost + Stability.

passive goes away when activating signet (unless they magically screwed something up recently). But for great justice, i shall go test it 3 times.

It was not a good idea to give rangers this kind of burst without introducing some disadvantage. Backstab damage at the press of one button with 1500 range and 8sec colldown is hardly justifyable., especially given that rangers have invulnerability, stealth, stability and good mobility. What they should have is to increase the damage somewhat rather than cutting the duration in half.

Having said that, I don’t think they can just roll back the duration change, as taking back changes is generally not what they do. I think they should leave the cast time, but introduce a precast of 0.5sec to 1sec and a clear telegraph. In addition, they should either decrease the number of arrows from 10 to say 8, or introduce a range penalty like on the LB autoattack. So full damage would be dealt at 1200 to 1500 range (traited), then -10% for every 300 units the target is closer to the ranger, down to -30% at 600 units or less.

This last option makes the most sense to me: This would encourage better use of the ranger’s mobility and introduce more risk as letting the target come close would cut the ranger’s burst potential. If there is to be good ranged burst, then this I think is the way to balance it.

Atherakhia.4086:

Brujeria.7536

Its the fact that the range is much higher, and the weapon set boasts even more tools to maintain that range. The OP doesnt come from this skill alone, its the weaponset in general. To balance rapid fire for this amount of power and survivability in the ranger longbow set you would need to reduce its damage by ~ 40% as well as increasing the cooldown by 40%.

And again I can’t help but question why?

What class are you playing where the Ranger has enough tools to maintain a range advantage against you? Because it can’t be Thief, Warrior, or Ele. It can’t be Engi, Mesmer or Ranger because they’re all ranged classes. This leaves Guardians, which should have very little difficulty against Rangers or Necromancer which were designed specifically to be the slowest class in the game.

We already know the damage isn’t the problem because Volley does the same damage and have similar vulnerability effectiveness despite the attacks being split. Both weapons also have a knockback which you’re now aledging is the problem, but instead of nerfing that to be 600 range instead of 900, you’re still harping on RF.

I’m just not seeing it, and I honestly feel RF is a bit much, but what everyone’s proposing in this thread is the absolutely destruction of a class that has been absolutely useless as a power build for 2 years and has only been barely functional (no where near competetive) for a week.

Want to be realistic?

Drop RF’s damage by about 5-10% so it is about equal to volley at that point.

Change SotW to only 10% for the Ranger instead of 25%.

Put the telegraph on PBS so it’s more easily recognized at a distance (someone mentioned the black arrow disappears with the EE trait, I’ve never tested?).

Change ALL projectiles (including Engineer grenades, Necro fields will now despawn/fade, traps etc) to be much closer to their identified max range.

And that’s it. The class will continue to be trash like you want it to be because it’s now a 1 trick pony for ranged burst and ANet can ignore all the remaining legitimate issues like they’ve done the past 2 years and we’ve now covered every legitimate argument that has been raised in this thread and every other over the past week.

Necromancer for example. You cant get close enough to do much if the ranger is smart. It doenst matter if condi or power.

Warrior to a degree – if hes not using GS. Lets say a Rifle and Axe/Axe warrior for example. Would have a very hard time getting close, he still can have his immunities regardless of his weapons, but the ranger can easily stealth and then switching to GS and leap away, waiting till the stances are over and resetting the fight. The warrior has no real counterplay to that, he can safe his blocks and stances untill he can fully engage but the ranger easily keeps the range and killing the warrior with RF as well as AA, both hit very very hard in a power build. Even IF the ranger should do a mistake he still has a 6 sec invulnerability or lighting reflexes to get out if he pleases.

Guardian actualy has the kinda same problems, but can block / aegis the CC effects a little better, basicly can handle the pressure better, + has some really good gapclosers at hand that dont rely on a projectile.

Any mesmer without PU / stealth centric has the same problem.

These are just examples, but basicly ANY class that doesnt have a gapcloser or stealth built in the used build can only loose in a open field fight if the ranger is of equal skill. These is not a factor of “outplaying”, this is simply a complete lack of reasonable counterplay. Nobody would complain about loosing against a good ranger, nobody would complain about getting outplayed by skill, but people will always complain about something they simply cant do anything in the first place. If a fight is basicly GG before it started because i play a necromancer and happen to see a longbow ranger something is terrible wrong.

Brujeria.7536:

Atherakhia.4086:

Brujeria.7536

Its the fact that the range is much higher, and the weapon set boasts even more tools to maintain that range. The OP doesnt come from this skill alone, its the weaponset in general. To balance rapid fire for this amount of power and survivability in the ranger longbow set you would need to reduce its damage by ~ 40% as well as increasing the cooldown by 40%.

And again I can’t help but question why?

What class are you playing where the Ranger has enough tools to maintain a range advantage against you? Because it can’t be Thief, Warrior, or Ele. It can’t be Engi, Mesmer or Ranger because they’re all ranged classes. This leaves Guardians, which should have very little difficulty against Rangers or Necromancer which were designed specifically to be the slowest class in the game.

We already know the damage isn’t the problem because Volley does the same damage and have similar vulnerability effectiveness despite the attacks being split. Both weapons also have a knockback which you’re now aledging is the problem, but instead of nerfing that to be 600 range instead of 900, you’re still harping on RF.

I’m just not seeing it, and I honestly feel RF is a bit much, but what everyone’s proposing in this thread is the absolutely destruction of a class that has been absolutely useless as a power build for 2 years and has only been barely functional (no where near competetive) for a week.

Want to be realistic?

Drop RF’s damage by about 5-10% so it is about equal to volley at that point.

Change SotW to only 10% for the Ranger instead of 25%.

Put the telegraph on PBS so it’s more easily recognized at a distance (someone mentioned the black arrow disappears with the EE trait, I’ve never tested?).

Change ALL projectiles (including Engineer grenades, Necro fields will now despawn/fade, traps etc) to be much closer to their identified max range.

And that’s it. The class will continue to be trash like you want it to be because it’s now a 1 trick pony for ranged burst and ANet can ignore all the remaining legitimate issues like they’ve done the past 2 years and we’ve now covered every legitimate argument that has been raised in this thread and every other over the past week.

Necromancer for example. You cant get close enough to do much if the ranger is smart. It doenst matter if condi or power.

Warrior to a degree – if hes not using GS. Lets say a Rifle and Axe/Axe warrior for example. Would have a very hard time getting close, he still can have his immunities regardless of his weapons, but the ranger can easily stealth and then switching to GS and leap away, waiting till the stances are over and resetting the fight. The warrior has no real counterplay to that, he can safe his blocks and stances untill he can fully engage but the ranger easily keeps the range and killing the warrior with RF as well as AA, both hit very very hard in a power build. Even IF the ranger should do a mistake he still has a 6 sec invulnerability or lighting reflexes to get out if he pleases.

Guardian actualy has the kinda same problems, but can block / aegis the CC effects a little better, basicly can handle the pressure better, + has some really good gapclosers at hand that dont rely on a projectile.

Any mesmer without PU / stealth centric has the same problem.

These are just examples, but basicly ANY class that doesnt have a gapcloser or stealth built in the used build can only loose in a open field fight if the ranger is of equal skill. These is not a factor of “outplaying”, this is simply a complete lack of reasonable counterplay. Nobody would complain about loosing against a good ranger, nobody would complain about getting outplayed by skill, but people will always complain about something they simply cant do anything in the first place. If a fight is basicly GG before it started because i play a necromancer and happen to see a longbow ranger something is terrible wrong.

So your argument is if players using these professions decided not to use any of the weapons, traits, or utility skills that would help them beat a ranger the fight is unfair.

That is like me saying that I decided not to wear armor so it is unfair that the other players are hitting me so hard. I demand everyone gets a nerf to damage so I can run around in WvW naked!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Brujeria.7536:

Atherakhia.4086:

Brujeria.7536

Its the fact that the range is much higher, and the weapon set boasts even more tools to maintain that range. The OP doesnt come from this skill alone, its the weaponset in general. To balance rapid fire for this amount of power and survivability in the ranger longbow set you would need to reduce its damage by ~ 40% as well as increasing the cooldown by 40%.

And again I can’t help but question why?

What class are you playing where the Ranger has enough tools to maintain a range advantage against you? Because it can’t be Thief, Warrior, or Ele. It can’t be Engi, Mesmer or Ranger because they’re all ranged classes. This leaves Guardians, which should have very little difficulty against Rangers or Necromancer which were designed specifically to be the slowest class in the game.

We already know the damage isn’t the problem because Volley does the same damage and have similar vulnerability effectiveness despite the attacks being split. Both weapons also have a knockback which you’re now aledging is the problem, but instead of nerfing that to be 600 range instead of 900, you’re still harping on RF.

I’m just not seeing it, and I honestly feel RF is a bit much, but what everyone’s proposing in this thread is the absolutely destruction of a class that has been absolutely useless as a power build for 2 years and has only been barely functional (no where near competetive) for a week.

Want to be realistic?

Drop RF’s damage by about 5-10% so it is about equal to volley at that point.

Change SotW to only 10% for the Ranger instead of 25%.

Put the telegraph on PBS so it’s more easily recognized at a distance (someone mentioned the black arrow disappears with the EE trait, I’ve never tested?).

Change ALL projectiles (including Engineer grenades, Necro fields will now despawn/fade, traps etc) to be much closer to their identified max range.

And that’s it. The class will continue to be trash like you want it to be because it’s now a 1 trick pony for ranged burst and ANet can ignore all the remaining legitimate issues like they’ve done the past 2 years and we’ve now covered every legitimate argument that has been raised in this thread and every other over the past week.

Necromancer for example. You cant get close enough to do much if the ranger is smart. It doenst matter if condi or power.

Warrior to a degree – if hes not using GS. Lets say a Rifle and Axe/Axe warrior for example. Would have a very hard time getting close, he still can have his immunities regardless of his weapons, but the ranger can easily stealth and then switching to GS and leap away, waiting till the stances are over and resetting the fight. The warrior has no real counterplay to that, he can safe his blocks and stances untill he can fully engage but the ranger easily keeps the range and killing the warrior with RF as well as AA, both hit very very hard in a power build. Even IF the ranger should do a mistake he still has a 6 sec invulnerability or lighting reflexes to get out if he pleases.

Guardian actualy has the kinda same problems, but can block / aegis the CC effects a little better, basicly can handle the pressure better, + has some really good gapclosers at hand that dont rely on a projectile.

Any mesmer without PU / stealth centric has the same problem.

These are just examples, but basicly ANY class that doesnt have a gapcloser or stealth built in the used build can only loose in a open field fight if the ranger is of equal skill. These is not a factor of “outplaying”, this is simply a complete lack of reasonable counterplay. Nobody would complain about loosing against a good ranger, nobody would complain about getting outplayed by skill, but people will always complain about something they simply cant do anything in the first place. If a fight is basicly GG before it started because i play a necromancer and happen to see a longbow ranger something is terrible wrong.

So your argument is if players using these professions decided not to use any of the weapons, traits, or utility skills that would help them beat a ranger the fight is unfair.

That is like me saying that I decided not to wear armor so it is unfair that the other players are hitting me so hard. I demand everyone gets a nerf to damage so I can run around in WvW naked!

You over exaggarate this point. I mean a warrior should not be forced to pick a GS to have any chance against a ranger. A mesmer should not be forced to use offhand torch and stealth traits to have a chance.

mexay.3902:

1) Add a 1s Pre-cast
2) Add a telegraph similar to Pin Down
3) Reduce range by 300 – 600 units
4) Increase recharge by 2 seconds
5) Remove vulnerability

There. Rapid Fire fixed.

Here’s my concern with this. Either you will see the ranger and can do something to stop him from downing you (which you can without your suggestions), or you don’t and none of your changes will matter. Also half of your suggestions would make RF completely useless. 1 seconds of pre cast, with a telegraph, and 300-600 range reduction…. how about I have to fax you my build one week in advance so you can react to rapid fire?! This is pathetic.

Brujeria.7536:

You over exaggarate this point. I mean a warrior should not be forced to pick a GS to have any chance against a ranger. A mesmer should not be forced to use offhand torch and stealth traits to have a chance.

A warrior isn’t forced to use GS. It can equip shield and block or trait for reflects, it can use off hand sword and block, it can use warhorn and grant vigor for extra dodge rolls, it can use any of the many extremely useful utility skills.

Or it can be useless like you suggested and just die because apparently there is no point in adapting to a build that gives you a hard time.

Your argument is looking more and more like, " I like my build and don’t want to adapt to something different so they should nerf it."

mexay.3902:

1) Add a 1s Pre-cast
2) Add a telegraph similar to Pin Down
3) Reduce range by 300 – 600 units
4) Increase recharge by 2 seconds
5) Remove vulnerability

There. Rapid Fire fixed.

It’s now easily dodgeable, requires some cost to the ranger, has the same recharge as a single dodge and doesn’t also stack vulnerability. It retains the same damage output and cast time and can still be used to snipe targets. Overall functionality is exactly the same.

And before the Rapid Fire Defence Force comes in with the arguments only Hotjoin Heroes would use:

Reflects are not a proper defence, as their recharge times are typically 30 – 40s and few classes have access to them
Dodging skills like Rapid Fire requires an actual telegraph
Volley does not do the same or more damage
Kill shot does not do the same or more damage
1500 Range does not allow for gap closing
Stability is not a valid counter to PBS given the recharge time
A skill with this much damage requires some kind of cost to use

So, any objections? As far as I’m concerned these changes would fix the weapon and make it reasonably balanced.

1) How is that any different? (Cast before actually in range, then attack)
2) The telegraph is that the ranger will use it after a hard-CC or start the battle with it. If you complain about a channeled skill not having a telegraph, why don’t you complain about how “instantaneous” Hilt-Bash, Concussion Shot, Counterattack & Path of Scars is?
3) Why do you want to descrease range together with almost removing 1 third of the dps?
4) Is this just a random number?
5) So with all your changes, you want Rapid fire to be worse than Long Range Shot?

Sure, I’m sure it’s fixed by nerfind it to Earth’s core!

Before the Anti Rapid Fire force comes in with stupid complaints:

The damage the skill deals is the same as before. The difference is that you dodge more of it with a single dodge now

Two dodges really is enough against a zerker LB ranger because you either get caught with PBS and then have to dodge the second part of RF or the pet mistreated you

Taking only your 2 dodges into account as defence against RF is stupid. What happened with your utilities, weapons skills and traits?

If you’re confident in what you say, please tell me how this is more powerful than any other profession that can play with full zerker gear and deal more damage in shorter time.

Let me give you an example…. What is the counter to a stealthed BS zerker thief? Objectively speaking, NOTHING counters it. You can’t see him, therefore you have no target. So, why is a stealthed BS zerker thief not OP? Because human have this amazing ability of prediction. We can predict how long it takes the thief to reach us and dodge accordingly, or perhaps use an AoE skill to scare the thief off.

Continuing on that, you can in the same way expect an LB ranger to do the combo. It’s not like you say “Oh wow, I totally didn’t expect that he would PBS me, use RF, then get knocked down by his wolf, then feared, then stunned by hilt bash, then rooted by entangle, then counterattacked while trying to escape, then PBS, then RF, then……”

1) Dodge
2) Dive
3) Dip
4) Duck
5) Dodge

See, I can do it too, though this fix will only apply to competent players. GlassBow still isn’t top tier viable and still has a hard matchup against most meta builds and compositions, and the complaining is only indicative that the game has now been successfully balanced for skill (where as previously there were no complaints because you could beat GlassBow one handed and the effects of the build were entirely negligible unless you were afk).

jcbroe.4329:

1) Dodge
2) Dive
3) Dip
4) Duck
5) Dodge

See, I can do it too, though this fix will only apply to competent players. GlassBow still isn’t top tier viable and still has a hard matchup against most meta builds and compositions, and the complaining is only indicative that the game has now been successfully balanced for skill (where as previously there were no complaints because you could beat GlassBow one handed and the effects of the build were entirely negligible unless you were afk).

+1

I have a random Survival+BM build I came up with in less than a minute and even that one beats Glassbows