Guild Wars 2

Andele.1306:

Burnfall.9573:

infantrydiv.1620:

Maybe if you wanted a more mobile class you shouldn’t have picked the heavy armor white mage archetype ^.^ not known for being particularly nimble

To begin with, how is it possible in mmo history where a Heavy Set warrior class run fast/er than a cheetah?

also…

How is it possible for a Heavy Set warrior to be the Undisputed King of Speed than the Light Set 125 pound cheetah?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vejjVgIHg

" This is Why You Can’t Outrun a Cheetah "

Of course

see> Warriors

There are these things called “trains” and “airships” and “charr siege tanks”, all of them run faster than a silly kitty cat for a much longer amount of time, why else do you think that getting away from a warrior feels like surviving a trainwreck? badum tshhh

P.S. To whiny people, if you feel lacking movement speed, play mesmer for a while, if you feel like lacking mobility, play necro for a while; also on that note movement speed =/= mobility.

i’ve played necro for a while and mesmer for a while is Spvp. Necro packs chill cripples, fears, immobilize, and not to mention a platter of conditions. They have some serious control and has the ability to nearly instagib any one(depending on the build terromancers especially.) So I don’t see a reason to even run unless you’re facing greatter odds.

Mesmers have access to stealth, cripple, dazes/stuns, Blink, and crap, and clone on dodge(deceptive evasion). From what i could tell from playing the class is, spam your phantasms and just survive while they do the dirty work for you, but this isn’t about necro or mesmer, it’s about your post. Both these classes have great ranged weapons and control effects. you should play guardian for a while and see how annoying it is to try and keep up with kitters. X amount of teleports and leaps won’t matter unless you have soft CC or swiftness applied, other wise a second later they’re out of range again.

Well with Necro the real issue with mobility is that it’s really hard to keep up in fast dungeon runs, Frostgorge Farming and very hard to run away from a zerg in WvW.

In smaller maps with small numbers mobility matters less.
Unfortunately Anet seems to be balancing mobility only around sPvP, which sucks for slower Professions like Necro, Mesmer and (to an extent) Guardian.

Guardian doesn’t need mobility.

What it needs is a snare.

Just make glacial heart a 10-15 sec ICD 4 sec chill on crit. Blinding Blade could also afford to give a 1-2 second cripple.

Aza.2105:

So this is what you are saying:

Guardians positives: A melee centric class.

Guardians negatives: No mobility.

Do you understand how ridiculous that design is? To make the weaknesses adverse to the strength? Low hp is understandable, no mobility is not. In fact it makes little to no sense. So how do you stay in melee range to take advantage of your strengths?

Were exactly did i say Guardian is a melee centric class? I said Guardian had its own strengths.
And if we start polishing Guardians weaknesses away all we’d end up with is another Warrior. And with that i mean, an overpowered no-weakness juggernaut.

Kasei.8726:

I can tell you’ve never played the class before. Go make a guardian right now and tell me how many players you hit with the scepter at a range farther than 400. Not so pro tip: strafing two steps back and forth against a scepter Guardian will make every orb miss.

Pretty sure it’s still okay around 600, which is ranged, your point is invalid. Same for torch that actually has 1200 range on the 4th skill.

Kasei.8726:

Did you not read the other posts in this thread? Teleport… then what?
We’re talking about things that stability doesn’t affect, i.e. cripple and chill.

How about some l2p? like, casting immobilize (or GS cc) with your hammer then teleporting, or immobilizing with scepter, changing weapons and using a gap closer? as for the hammer, you could even use the trait to chill on crit to ensure the immobilize was just the start. Hell, even hydromancy was introduced for that kind of situation if you want more soft cc and no you don’t NEED to use it but it would give yet another soft which you so desire.Dps guardian is perfectly fine without : you can’t have a class that has quite a few gap closers + decent ranged damage, very good offensive and defensive abilities and then the ability to snare the opponents? if you want perma cc your ennemy while being unkillable, I suggest you play hambow. If you want an example of a close range class that has only 3 soft cc :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Burst
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Earth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Grasp

On the other hand, main hand dagger ele can do nothing without being close range (unlike guardian with scepter, focus, torch), and it certainly cannot put out the same damage as a dps guardian, or it will lose all survivability (yep, blind, retaliation and blocks increase your survivability by quite a lot).

Scepter is somewhat ranged and I doubt anyone’s gonna kite you for something farther than 600 otherwhise it’s another L2P issue, sword too has a 600 range on the third skill aaaaand again focus is somewhat ranged too (it has its uses, even ranged, that is). In any case, almost all classes have to come close to truly burst so even if you’re teribad you will have opportunies to burst and use your thousand blocks to nullify your opponent’s burst.

How I read your complaint is : “Please buff guardian because I suck at it and I want it to be even easier to play”. If you want to experience what that would like, hambow warriors and a very good example.

Uhtameit.2413:

How I read your complaint is : “Please buff guardian because I suck at it and I want it to be even easier to play”. If you want to experience what that would like, hambow warriors and a very good example.

Here’s how I read your post: “Please, for the love of everything holy, I cannot figure out how to time my burst as a Guardian has a passive RNG Block once every 30 seconds, and that darn shield of wraith, that’s on a 40s cooldown is too difficult to see what’s going on… Please, do not give them soft CC cuz I have a L2P issue w/ defeating guardians…”

Uhtameit.2413:

[…]

Allow me to repeat myself, “I can tell you’ve never played the class before.”

Uhtameit.2413:

Pretty sure it’s still okay around 600, which is ranged, your point is invalid.

You’ve completely missed my point. You’re trying to claim that the scepter is useful at 1200 range, it is not. I don’t agree with you about its effectiveness at even 600 range, but that’s probably due to experience with the class. At 600 range a Guardian will bring a staff over the scepter almost every time.

Uhtameit.2413:

Same for torch that actually has 1200 range on the 4th skill.

You’re acting as if that skill can be use repeatedly. It’s the second activation of one skill that increases its cooldown. Cleansing Flame (#5) is basically useless against moving targets (what this thread is all about).

Uhtameit.2413:

[…] as for the hammer, you could even use the trait to chill on crit […]

Glacial Heart has 50% chance to apply chill for 4 seconds on critical with a 30 second cooldown. Completely unreliable.

Uhtameit.2413:

[…] you can’t have a class that has quite a few gap closers + decent ranged damage, very good offensive and defensive abilities and then the ability to snare the opponents? […]

Perhaps I didn’t write this clearly enough, but allow me to clarify. I don’t think any Guardian want to be able to do everything at once, we don’t want to be Warriors. We want options. Guardians currently don’t have an option to keep an opponent snared even if it meant trading something major for it.

Uhtameit.2413:

[…]How about some l2p?[…]

You didn’t read the last half of my post.

Where did you read that haven’t tried/don’t currently do those things? Understand what I’m writing rather than mixing in your own opinions.

I’m fine keeping up with most opponents with my current setup and playstyle, but doing so is also very limiting. (and probably due more to skill than my build, but I’m not here to brag) It’s either run my current setup or watch people just run away from me.

edit:

Forgot one

Uhtameit.2413:

sword too has a 600 range on the third skill

Zealot’s Defense won’t hit anything at 600 range. Even if the target stands still, some of the projectiles will still miss. All projectiles will miss a moving target you don’t activate the skill at point blank range.

I laugh about you.

Necro: No mobility skills on any weapon. While guadian has #2 sword and #3 GS to be mobile.

Guardians outrun me alot , L2P issue here.

Amins.3710:

Uhtameit.2413:

How I read your complaint is : “Please buff guardian because I suck at it and I want it to be even easier to play”. If you want to experience what that would like, hambow warriors and a very good example.

Here’s how I read your post: “Please, for the love of everything holy, I cannot figure out how to time my burst as a Guardian has a passive RNG Block once every 30 seconds, and that darn shield of wraith, that’s on a 40s cooldown is too difficult to see what’s going on… Please, do not give them soft CC cuz I have a L2P issue w/ defeating guardians…”

I’m just saying it has ways to nullify a burst (Shelter, Shield of Wrath for instance). That was very constructive, thanks.

Kasei.8726:

Allow me to repeat myself, “I can tell you’ve never played the class before.”

Cute.

Kasei.8726:

Uhtameit.2413:

Pretty sure it’s still okay around 600, which is ranged, your point is invalid.

You’ve completely missed my point. You’re trying to claim that the scepter is useful at 1200 range, it is not. I don’t agree with you about its effectiveness at even 600 range, but that’s probably due to experience with the class. At 600 range a Guardian will bring a staff over the scepter almost every time.

Reaaaally cute. I’m saying scepter is okay at 600, not 1200. Please try to read. Okay is not good, it is decent : at least you are doing damage, which some classes can’t do at 600.

Kasei.8726:

Uhtameit.2413:

Same for torch that actually has 1200 range on the 4th skill.

You’re acting as if that skill can be use repeatedly. It’s the second activation of one skill that increases its cooldown. Cleansing Flame (#5) is basically useless against moving targets (what this thread is all about).

I’m afraid I am not acting as though that skill can be used repeatedly : on the other hand, it deals quite a lot of damage. Are you aware that this game mode is conquest and thus people tend not to move that much? except if you’re a hotjoin hero whining he can’t finish off his running target. I mean, it’s not like the 5th skill is probably the least interesting in terms of damage or anything. You’re probably right about everything.

Kasei.8726:

Uhtameit.2413:

[…] as for the hammer, you could even use the trait to chill on crit […]

Glacial Heart has 50% chance to apply chill for 4 seconds on critical with a 30 second cooldown. Completely unreliable.

Yeah, it’s true, glass guardians don’t have fury on meditation teleport that brings them close to 70% crit which would ensure that this trait procs. They need perma chill on the target to burst it, that’s it ! That would be reliable

Uhtameit.2413:

[…] you can’t have a class that has quite a few gap closers + decent ranged damage, very good offensive and defensive abilities and then the ability to snare the opponents? […]

Kasei.8726:

Perhaps I didn’t write this clearly enough, but allow me to clarify. I don’t think any Guardian want to be able to do everything at once, we don’t want to be Warriors. We want options. Guardians currently don’t have an option to keep an opponent snared even if it meant trading something major for it.

What do you think makes warriors op? the possibility to have all options at their disposal. You want soft cc on top of good defensive and offensive abilities and you haven’t spoken about giving up anything at all. It doesn’t look like you want options, it looks like you want everything and then more.

Kasei.8726:

I’m fine keeping up with most opponents with my current setup and playstyle, but doing so is also very limiting. (and probably due more to skill than my build, but I’m not here to brag) It’s either run my current setup or watch people just run away from me.

Yes, you are the best ever.

Uhtameit.2413:

Uhtameit.2413:

sword too has a 600 range on the third skill

Zealot’s Defense won’t hit anything at 600 range. Even if the target stands still, some of the projectiles will still miss. All projectiles will miss a moving target you don’t activate the skill at point blank range.

Quick tip : when using a ranged channeled skill, you have to be within that range and not at the limit of it if you wish for it to work. You’re welcome.

(PS : my point was that it isn’t entirely close range)

In case you didn’t get the message : yes, most skills won’t land if people are running out of it (Engineer’s bombs, Dragon’s tooth, Churning Earth, Cluster Bomb, Chaos Storm). It’s time to L2p and to stop whining like a good guardian hero.

^Amins is correct, you’re either bunker, support, or glass cannon DPS. Outside of GS and Sword, you have kitten mobility. good defense abilities come with the price of having to invest for it. Same with DPS specs for DPS, you can’t make a absurdly tanky guardian with Zerker damage.

You’ll have poor self condition removal if you don’t run shouts with PoV, or meditations. On top of that you’ll lose out on a increase of Health pool and healing power by not investing more into Honor. Also a majority of meditation builds have any protection access, so low health and squishy. Soft CC wouldn’t make us OP it’ll just allow other guardian builds to actually help stick to targets. it’s bs that some can just run away from you or in circles when they want too.

Amins.3710:

Uhtameit.2413:

Amins.3710:

Uhtameit.2413:

How I read your complaint is : “Please buff guardian because I suck at it and I want it to be even easier to play”. If you want to experience what that would like, hambow warriors and a very good example.

Here’s how I read your post: “Please, for the love of everything holy, I cannot figure out how to time my burst as a Guardian has a passive RNG Block once every 30 seconds, and that darn shield of wraith, that’s on a 40s cooldown is too difficult to see what’s going on… Please, do not give them soft CC cuz I have a L2P issue w/ defeating guardians…”

I’m just saying it has ways to nullify a burst (Shelter, Shield of Wrath for instance). That was very constructive, thanks.

You’re welcome. Just trying to keep in step w/ your idiocy.

Pro Tip w/ Guard – You’re either Bunker/Sustain/Support w/ Green numbers and crap damage or you’re GS/S+F glass cannon.

Neither has any form of reliable soft CC and each of them sacrafices major Damage for Sustain and vice verse…

Careful though, my Aegis is OP on my GC Guard: I get to stomp someone every 82 seconds.

Glass guardian has a ridiculously high survivability, denying it is foolish. Also, you shouldn’t insult other people, it’s very mean and you might get reported for it.

Uhtameit.2413:

As for soft cc, GS has one.

Do you even know what soft CC is?

Black Box.9312:

Uhtameit.2413:

As for soft cc, GS has one.

Do you even know what soft CC is?

I realized what he meant by that later on, since it is just a pull I thought it fit in. Do you realize how unconstructive you are by not reading the rest of the thread?

Uhtameit.2413:

Black Box.9312:

Uhtameit.2413:

As for soft cc, GS has one.

Do you even know what soft CC is?

I realized what he meant by that later on, since it is just a pull I thought it fit in. Do you realize how unconstructive you are by not reading the rest of the thread?

One could ask you the same question. Given how you have acted for alot of this thread and yet I have never seen your name anywhere on the Guardian Threads.

You have quoted a trait incorrectly that you didn’t even know the name to, like Glacial Heart. You ignore that it only last 4 seconds if not cleansed on a 30 second cool down. It is randomly applied even with a high crit chance there is no way to know for sure if it will work when needed.

I stopped even bothering to read your post after you suggested Glacial Heart and Torch as viable options in combat. After looking through your post history I see you spend alot of time on the Engi thread. I have a level 80 engi, but I don’t play him much, it doesn’t give me the right to walk into an engi thread and start telling you how to play that job. Even if you have a level 80 guardian I don’t think you have really played around with it enough to know the ends and outs of it in most situations.

Given that you didn’t even know what Soft CC was I wonder about other things to, but I won’t post them here.

Talyn.3295:

One could ask you the same question. Given how you have been pretty kitten for alot of this thread and I have never seen your name anywhere on the Guardian Threads.

So I need to have my name on one of the most boring classes forums to be able to be constructive and to talk about it? My take on that question is no.

Talyn.3295:

You have quoted a trait incorrectly that you didn’t even know the name to, like Glacial Heart, ignore that it only last 4 seconds if not cleansed on a 30 second cool down. It is randomly applied even with a high crit chance there is no way to know for sure if it will work when needed.

I don’t see how I was incorrect anywhere at all. Does knowing the specific name of the trait will get me anywhere? Again, no. And yeah, chill, cripple and immobilize can be cleansed. What do you want now? something to cover it up? Would Signet of Spite be good enough for you? Had you bothered to read you would know with traited meditation skills you can get fury so 70% of crit, which means it’s very likely it will proc.

Talyn.3295:

I stopped even bothering to read your post after you suggested Glacial Heart and Torch as viable options in combat. After looking through your post history I see you spend alot of time on the Engi thread. I have a level 80 engi, but I don’t play him much, it doesn’t give me the right to walk into an engi thread and start telling you how to play that job. Even if you have a level 80 guardian I don’t think you have really played around with it enough to know the ends and outs of it in most situations.

Glacial Heart is what it is : soft cc. Some other guardian heroes were asking for soft cc when they have some at their disposal so I pointed it out to them (they play guardian so they are a bit slow). Torch is a very good off hand weapon and if you don’t think it is, well…you’re just clueless, darling.
I have played all classes except ranger and warrior so I fail to see where you’re going…I’m not telling people how to play it, I’m just saying that asking for soft cc when you have a strong class that is actually almost balanced and that offers what you’re asking for is a joke.

Talyn.3295:

Given that you didn’t even know what Soft CC was I wonder about other things to, but I won’t post them here.

I never heard of anyone using that term before, but yes, it’s probably to criticize me based on my lack of a vocabulary I never encountered before and then make some vague statements about how Torch is a bad weapon. I wish there were some smart people playing guardian.

Edit : Haha, no wonder you’re clueless : a WvW warrior XDDDDDDD. Go in peace and zerg away while thinking you are knowledgeable, be nice.

Uhtameit.2413:

Snip

Bro, you come here talking like you are the second coming. Please just do us all a favor and stop. You made your point. You can talk alot of boring smack. Yawns I have read better. Alot better from a lot better trolls then you.

You attack posters, and quote a few traits or skills and how they work on paper. I could copy paste that from wiki too if i wanted.

There are smart people playing guardian. Yet after reading your post, I am really starting to wonder about you.

So let us look at what your most recent post just to me, your personal attacks at me and other posters aside.

Torch is a very good off hand weapon and if you don’t think it is, well…you’re just clueless, darling. .

I am wondering if you and I are even playing the same game, What part about either torch skill makes it a better off hand then the guardian focus? Or even the shield. At least focus and shield sever purposes.

I am certainly not going to use one for its ranged options. Trust me, this is one weapon Guardians leave in there bag, if they bothered to buy one at all.

Uhtameit.2413:

I don’t see how I was incorrect anywhere at all. Does knowing the specific name of the trait will get me anywhere? Again, no. And yeah, chill, cripple and immobilize can be cleansed. What do you want now? something to cover it up? Would Signet of Spite be good enough for you? Had you bothered to read you would know with traited meditation skills you can get fury so 70% of crit, which means it’s very likely it will proc.

If I am going to quote any skill or trait I at least take the time to look up what I am quoting, that way I look less like a kitten

You talk about Meditation guardians, I am familiar with them and I do run one from time to time. However, if you look at the Skill tree that this awful trait is in you will find that it there are a lot better traits that we can pick from.

Why when other professions have cripples and chills built into weapon skills do the guardians have to give up good traits to get the same effect? An effect that is randomly and not on demand? For a melee class sticking on our target is a huge part of how we play.

Given that Glacial Heart random it might proc at the start of the fight or at any time. One randomly applied cripple is not good Soft CC. Not when it takes 30 seconds before it can proc again. Are you even reading between your insults?

I never heard of anyone using that term before, but yes, it’s probably to criticize me based on my lack of a vocabulary

Soft CC is a term used on alot of threads, quite frequently, if you want to come to a thread and post a lot of insults at least know what the terms are so you don’t just look like a kitten.

Uhtameit.2413:

Edit : Haha, no wonder you’re clueless : a WvW warrior XDDDDDDD. Go in peace and zerg away while thinking you are knowledgeable, be nice.

No darling I play a guardian, and a good one. I don’t zerg, I zerg bust. So yet for one more time your wrong.

It is actually quite sad and I am starting to feel sorry for you. Better Troll next time.

combat mobility is not running speed, warrior run faster(gs/sword only, which is not a combat setup), but mesmer have way more combat mobility. guardian has good combat mobility too (stays with the concept of sticking with the enemy), but it cant do much if it wants to disengage, or in a non-combat scenario.(which is also by design)

PvP map wise, anyone with blink will have better combat mobility and disengage.
in Battle of Kyhlo, People can blink up to mid point rooftop instantly, while it takes classes without blink atleast 30 seconds to get up there,
but if you have target required blink you can also follow your enemy instantly, i think.

Torch isn’t a bad weapon, it’s pretty good if you run a burst spec, the thing is outside of PvE, Focus is overrated, unless you’re looking for just additional defense. If you’re looking for additional damage torch is great. With focus your burst is reliant on your bubble which breaks if struck 3 times(easy). Torch offers sticky damage through burning, and the 4 active is a good nuke skill, and 5 is okay to a extent your foe is just out of reach.

@Uhtameit as for the soft CC stuff, soft CC as movement impairment, cripple, chill.,immoblize, things that stability doesn’t effect.

@this post you posted – Glass guardian has a ridiculously high survivability, denying it is foolish. Also, you shouldn’t insult other people, it’s very mean and you might get reported for it.

Right….ofc you bring this up when there’s condi bunkers that exist such as Engi, Warriors, Mesmer, Necro. They don’t have ridiculously high survivablity, with crap tons of damage, meditation guardians(mostly glassy) has okay-good survivablity with burst heals, since most people run triple meditation. Most glass cannon guard builds don’t have very good access to protection, unless you invest for it, meaning trading some offense for some defense, and from experience most condi bunkers have a higher chance of winning a fight against a glass guard. It’s fun especially when trying to kill a engi in WvW(roaming/dueling) or Spvp, runs around and just spams bombs and grenades, AoE’s the kitten out of you with conditions(lovely 30+ seconds of poison), and over fills your bar with them. So please how do we have ridiculous survivablity?

Lucentfir.7430:

@Uhtameit as for the soft CC stuff, soft CC as movement impairment, cripple, chill.,immoblize, things that stability doesn’t effect.

I got that by now, you should probably try to read the thread. I just didn’t know when I first encountered it which is pretty much what happens to everyone, eh

Lucentfir.7430:

@this post you posted - Glass guardian has a ridiculously high survivability, denying it is foolish. Also, you shouldn’t insult other people, it’s very mean and you might get reported for it.

Right….ofc you bring this up when there’s condi bunkers that exist such as Engi, Warriors, Mesmer, Necro. They don’t have ridiculously high survivablity, with crap tons of damage, meditation guardians(mostly glassy) has okay-good survivablity with burst heals, since most people run triple meditation. Most glass cannon guard builds don’t have very good access to protection, unless you invest for it, meaning trading some offense for some defense, and from experience most condi bunkers have a higher chance of winning a fight against a glass guard. It’s fun especially when trying to kill a engi in WvW(roaming/dueling) or Spvp, runs around and just spams bombs and grenades, AoE’s the kitten out of you with conditions(lovely 30+ seconds of poison), and over fills your bar with them. So please how do we have ridiculous survivablity?

I enjoy the repetition. For starters, we are talking about a power spec. POWER. SPEC. Why do you mention condition builds? condition builds have access to amulets with toughness without losing damage so yes of course they are tankier.

What I was saying was that glass guardian, while being glass, has insane survivability. Try playing glass ele or glass engi and you’ll feel the difference (no shelter, no shield of wrath, no elite that renders you immune and let’s not mention all the blinds).

And please, do not mention warriors. Of course they are op. So now given that you compare base stats of condition builds vs glass builds, I suggest you play the game some and follow a few logic courses. Hope it helps.

Uhtameit.2413:

Black Box.9312:

Uhtameit.2413:

As for soft cc, GS has one.

Do you even know what soft CC is?

I realized what he meant by that later on, since it is just a pull I thought it fit in. Do you realize how unconstructive you are by not reading the rest of the thread?

I don’t need to read the entire thread, because I main a guardian and know exactly what it is lacking.

Uhtameit.2413:

Lucentfir.7430:

@Uhtameit as for the soft CC stuff, soft CC as movement impairment, cripple, chill.,immoblize, things that stability doesn’t effect.

I got that by now, you should probably try to read the thread. I just didn’t know when I first encountered it which is pretty much what happens to everyone, eh

Lucentfir.7430:

@this post you posted - Glass guardian has a ridiculously high survivability, denying it is foolish. Also, you shouldn’t insult other people, it’s very mean and you might get reported for it.

Right….ofc you bring this up when there’s condi bunkers that exist such as Engi, Warriors, Mesmer, Necro. They don’t have ridiculously high survivablity, with crap tons of damage, meditation guardians(mostly glassy) has okay-good survivablity with burst heals, since most people run triple meditation. Most glass cannon guard builds don’t have very good access to protection, unless you invest for it, meaning trading some offense for some defense, and from experience most condi bunkers have a higher chance of winning a fight against a glass guard. It’s fun especially when trying to kill a engi in WvW(roaming/dueling) or Spvp, runs around and just spams bombs and grenades, AoE’s the kitten out of you with conditions(lovely 30+ seconds of poison), and over fills your bar with them. So please how do we have ridiculous survivablity?

I enjoy the repetition. For starters, we are talking about a power spec. POWER. SPEC. Why do you mention condition builds? condition builds have access to amulets with toughness without losing damage so yes of course they are tankier.

What I was saying was that glass guardian, while being glass, has insane survivability. Try playing glass ele or glass engi and you’ll feel the difference (no shelter, no shield of wrath, no elite that renders you immune and let’s not mention all the blinds).

And please, do not mention warriors. Of course they are op. So now given that you compare base stats of condition builds vs glass builds, I suggest you play the game some and follow a few logic courses. Hope it helps.

I’ve played Zerker ele, not that great ofc but it’s a class that has the lowest health and armor so ofc it’s going to be difficult. I’ve played Static Discharge engi before, really troll and easy to murder people with. Also i find it funny you’re comparing ranged classes to a melee class, and I can say I’ve played the game probably longer then you have, so please try again :]

I have nearly all classes at 80, I do not pvp often but i roam solo and duel alot in wvw, i consider myself a good player.

I main a necro but sometimes use my guard for roaming, In a meditation guard build, I have NEVER seen anyone even think about taking glacial heart for some form of soft cc and the fact that this guy uhtameit even considers it viable is beyond me. I suggest he actually try and play a guard.

Also just to note @ uhtameit who keeps spamming the same crap as to why guardians should gain mobility and not lose anything else;

Do warriors have that tradeoff? because from what i see they have the best health/damage/mobility/sustain for the past 6 months so maybe you can understand why guardians might be a bit peeved? especially when I see the argument of being a “heavy class” …. lolwars

/end

Aza.2105:

Do you understand how ridiculous that design is? To make the weaknesses adverse to the strength? Low hp is understandable, no mobility is not. In fact it makes little to no sense. So how do you stay in melee range to take advantage of your strengths?

It makes sense if you’re superior once you’re in melee combat. Difficult to close in, but once you’re there you’re awesome.

Now, usually this would still be unbalanced. But, we’re playing a MMORPG. The design would give damage-centric Guardians a reason to team up with a class adept at locking down targets, since those lack the damage output but can keep the targets where they need to be.

This is one thing GW2 is lacking quite a bit, actually. The combos were supposed to add that, but they’re too weak compared to the main skills. We need more incentive to want to play as a team in more situations and actively work together.

Lucentfir.7430:

Uhtameit.2413:

Lucentfir.7430:

@Uhtameit as for the soft CC stuff, soft CC as movement impairment, cripple, chill.,immoblize, things that stability doesn’t effect.

I got that by now, you should probably try to read the thread. I just didn’t know when I first encountered it which is pretty much what happens to everyone, eh

Lucentfir.7430:

@this post you posted - Glass guardian has a ridiculously high survivability, denying it is foolish. Also, you shouldn’t insult other people, it’s very mean and you might get reported for it.

Right….ofc you bring this up when there’s condi bunkers that exist such as Engi, Warriors, Mesmer, Necro. They don’t have ridiculously high survivablity, with crap tons of damage, meditation guardians(mostly glassy) has okay-good survivablity with burst heals, since most people run triple meditation. Most glass cannon guard builds don’t have very good access to protection, unless you invest for it, meaning trading some offense for some defense, and from experience most condi bunkers have a higher chance of winning a fight against a glass guard. It’s fun especially when trying to kill a engi in WvW(roaming/dueling) or Spvp, runs around and just spams bombs and grenades, AoE’s the kitten out of you with conditions(lovely 30+ seconds of poison), and over fills your bar with them. So please how do we have ridiculous survivablity?

I enjoy the repetition. For starters, we are talking about a power spec. POWER. SPEC. Why do you mention condition builds? condition builds have access to amulets with toughness without losing damage so yes of course they are tankier.

What I was saying was that glass guardian, while being glass, has insane survivability. Try playing glass ele or glass engi and you’ll feel the difference (no shelter, no shield of wrath, no elite that renders you immune and let’s not mention all the blinds).

And please, do not mention warriors. Of course they are op. So now given that you compare base stats of condition builds vs glass builds, I suggest you play the game some and follow a few logic courses. Hope it helps.

I’ve played Zerker ele, not that great ofc but it’s a class that has the lowest health and armor so ofc it’s going to be difficult. I’ve played Static Discharge engi before, really troll and easy to murder people with. Also i find it funny you’re comparing ranged classes to a melee class, and I can say I’ve played the game probably longer then you have, so please try again :]

d/d ele is not ranged, and engi glass will do no damage unless it lands skills like Overcharged Shot, Blunderbuss, JumpShot. I suggest you read the range on those skills. As for s/d ele, it will do no damage unless it lands a combo involving for instance earthquake, ring of fire, fire grab. Yep. Please try again.

Uhtameit.2413:

Lucentfir.7430:

Uhtameit.2413:

Lucentfir.7430:

@Uhtameit as for the soft CC stuff, soft CC as movement impairment, cripple, chill.,immoblize, things that stability doesn’t effect.

I got that by now, you should probably try to read the thread. I just didn’t know when I first encountered it which is pretty much what happens to everyone, eh

Lucentfir.7430:

@this post you posted - Glass guardian has a ridiculously high survivability, denying it is foolish. Also, you shouldn’t insult other people, it’s very mean and you might get reported for it.

Right….ofc you bring this up when there’s condi bunkers that exist such as Engi, Warriors, Mesmer, Necro. They don’t have ridiculously high survivablity, with crap tons of damage, meditation guardians(mostly glassy) has okay-good survivablity with burst heals, since most people run triple meditation. Most glass cannon guard builds don’t have very good access to protection, unless you invest for it, meaning trading some offense for some defense, and from experience most condi bunkers have a higher chance of winning a fight against a glass guard. It’s fun especially when trying to kill a engi in WvW(roaming/dueling) or Spvp, runs around and just spams bombs and grenades, AoE’s the kitten out of you with conditions(lovely 30+ seconds of poison), and over fills your bar with them. So please how do we have ridiculous survivablity?

I enjoy the repetition. For starters, we are talking about a power spec. POWER. SPEC. Why do you mention condition builds? condition builds have access to amulets with toughness without losing damage so yes of course they are tankier.

What I was saying was that glass guardian, while being glass, has insane survivability. Try playing glass ele or glass engi and you’ll feel the difference (no shelter, no shield of wrath, no elite that renders you immune and let’s not mention all the blinds).

And please, do not mention warriors. Of course they are op. So now given that you compare base stats of condition builds vs glass builds, I suggest you play the game some and follow a few logic courses. Hope it helps.

I’ve played Zerker ele, not that great ofc but it’s a class that has the lowest health and armor so ofc it’s going to be difficult. I’ve played Static Discharge engi before, really troll and easy to murder people with. Also i find it funny you’re comparing ranged classes to a melee class, and I can say I’ve played the game probably longer then you have, so please try again :]

d/d ele is not ranged, and engi glass will do no damage unless it lands skills like Overcharged Shot, Blunderbuss, JumpShot. I suggest you read the range on those skills. As for s/d ele, it will do no damage unless it lands a combo involving for instance earthquake, ring of fire, fire grab. Yep. Please try again.

If you want to talk about D/D Ele, they’re getting buffed with evasion and blast finishers. And I play a damage based ele. 30 in water for condition removal(cantrips) and at least 20 in arcana for Elemental attunement for the easy access boons, and either 25% movespeed or vigor. S/D I don’t play S/D so i can’t say much about it, though I know the other variation is S/F and it works from what I seen in Spvp. My ele has better condition removal then my meditation guard, and the combat is fluid once you know your combos, it’s easier to land your burst. Also don’t kid yourself about the engineer rifle skills, making it sound like landing those skills are hard. Rifle has a immoblize and a knockback which makes it very easy to land your burst. hit all your toolbelt skills and drop whoever you’re facing(I’ve ran Tool kit, Rifle Turret, and Utility goggles for utilities) with Static discharge, and it has even better damage when there is something for the discharge to bounce off of. Also those 5k Pry bars in Spvp mmmm delicious. Try again please, perhaps play with your guardian more, and come back here when you’ve enriched yourself of the feel of actual gameplay as a guardian.

I would say meditation Guard is pretty mobile. If you do GS + Sword/Focus (pretty common setup) you got 2 teleport + 1 leap add Traveler’s rune + sigil of hydromancy (or ice), you are definitely hard to get away from.

My point was that d/d ele has no ranged options whatsoever and is more fragile. Can you at least try to follow?

Now let’s move on to what you said about ele (I fail to see any reasoning whatsoever but there are so many flaws that I have to point them out):

-the new blast finisher is in water which makes it useless to stack might (which you would know if you weren’t clueless about ele). Of course you’ll ask why : if you use ring of fire you are attacking the ennemy, you are not about to go into water attunement and heal.
Beside that, yes, it is getting an evade on Burning Speed but it’s still not a ranged option. It will have a very slightly better survivability. With 30 water and 20+ arcana you don’t look like much of “damage based” elementalist, btw.

-Ele does have better condition removal than guardian if

1) the ele is using Ether Renewal
2) ER is not interrupted

2) being the equivalent of 3) you are playing against noobs

-Finally,scepter ele does have some nice burst but it is not easy to land, it has a far bigger CD than the guardian’s, and it has far less survivability (I’m trying to sum up a bit ’cause I have no clue where you are going).

As for engis :

Yes, immobilize and kb allow engis to land their burst. Except, you know, against good players that use their stun breakers. But regardless of that, I don’t make it sound like it’s hard to land those skills : what I said is that a burst engi (not necessarily a SD one with utility goggles which is an awful utility choice) won’t make enough damage if he doesn’t land those skills which are close ranged skills (Pry Bar, Overcharged Shot, Blunderbuss, Jump Shot…all close range) !

To sum it up : after comparing power spec base stats to condi spec base stats, proving you seem to be new to elementalist regarding how useful a blast finisher can be/ what a burst ele’s traits look like, and demonstrating your lack of understanding as a whole, I hope you will get my point (you don’t look very well informed about the state of the game though and you seem to only play the easiest builds, which could very well be linked).

Glass engineer and glass elementalist can have ranged options, but they will need to get close to burst. Yes, scepter ele has a better burst than guardian (but on a bigger CD) and yes elementalist can have better condi removal. But my point was that guardian has much better survivability and since pretty much all classes need to get close to burst (in that process, they take the risk to get bursted themselves), Guardian has a significant advantage thanks to its insane survivability and its many ways to nullify a burst which other classes do not possess.

TL,DR :

Guardian = Low Risk, High Reward
Elementalist = High Risk, Low/Decent Reward
Glass engi = High Risk, Low Reward

infantrydiv.1620:

Maybe if you wanted a more mobile class you shouldn’t have picked the heavy armor white mage archetype ^.^ not known for being particularly nimble

This quote should also apply to the other heavy-armor class in this game. Yet, it does not.

Uhtameit.2413:

-snip-

I’ve experimented with my elementalist enough to know I’ve got decent-good damage with my build with good survivablity at least for me. It’s short sighted and closed minded when you think, having to go full 30 in all the DPS lines to consider yourself DPS spec, when it’s not really true, you’re just trading some trait offense for trait defense, ofc you’re not going to include gear in the builds, who does that, or runes?

The two you put into comparison to guardian, both have CC soft and hard that helps land burst and sustained damage. Eles have tons of it (Frost armor(Chill), Frozen Burst(Chill), Ring of Earth(Cripple), Magnetic Grab(immoblize). Then we move onto hard CC, Earthquake(Knockdown), Updraft(launch), Shocking aura(Stun, you have to be hit). Engies, are ranged, they use ranged weapons, and they have Overcharged shot(Launch 15-12s CD) , Net on Rifle(Immoblize 10-8s CD), Toolkit’s Magnet (Pull), Box of nails(Cripple), easy to land burst. Now Guardian using GS/S+X has, Binding blade(pull)……..that’s it. So this means people can escape their burst easily, because there’s nothing to hold them down to take the damage. I’ll leave out S/D ele since I never played S/D.

Eles have better condition removal then guardians without greater sacrifice.

Cleansing Water(1 Condition every time you gain Regen)
Cleansing fire(traited with Soothing disruption and cleansing water=4 Conditions, 32 sec CD)
Cleansing wave(1 condition)
Elemental Attunement(Water Swap=Regen=1 Condition)
So slotting 3 Cantrips will give you 3-6 Condition clears(Cleansing Water procs), including Cleansing wave=7 condition clears, then the proc from elemental attunement to water=8 Condition clears in total.

Then we look at Guardian with Meditations, and what do they have!

Smite Condition, 1 condition every 20-16 sec
Contemplation of Purity a one time conversion on a 60-48s CD.

The only way to surpass ele’s clearing is to run triple shouts with Pure of voice(3 conditions normally, and 6 if you run soldier runes.)
Absolute resolution=3 Conditions cleared total(another 3 if you popped renewed focus and activated it again) and the cooldown is what 52-50 seconds for VoR at least with 20 in Virtues?
Purging Flame =3 Conditions with -condition duration

that’s about 12 Condition removals (3 from Soldier runes, 3 from PoV, 3 from traited VoR, and 3 again from VoR after Renewed focus, which in this case is a dedicated support build, which can’t do anything for itself.

Also i love how you put the risk vs reward thing in there, Guardians are really Medium to High Risk to High Reward(Essentially a melee only class and poor range option), Glass Engi running SD, is medium to High Risk, High Reward as well, land your burst either you win the fight or gain superior advantage. Ele is right on spot , medium to high risk, Decent Reward. Though you should really play guardian more, because you’re really on about how Guardian has insane Survivablity ;p for how glassy they are, when it’s probably skillful timing, of active defenses(with lengthy CDs). It’s harder to play against good opponents, or builds that have your weakness(Heavy CC and Condition based specs, Kite around with soft CC)

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

I don’t get how asking for some Soft CC(at least from me and a few others) to stick to moving foes is wanting a Warrior in secret. Also most of our builds we sacrifice for things(as it should be) we want to do with our guard. Warriors have high base HP pools, and Armor, greatest mobility speeches are obviously aimed at GS users, or the troll GS/S+W build using Bull’s Charge, outside of those builds though Warriors have decent mobility. They don’t have to sacrifice as much to get other things compared to the other classes.

@Lucentfir.7430

No matter what you say, an elementalist with 30 arcana and 20 or 30 points in arcane can’t do that much damage. Sure, it can be glass and still deal some damage but it will be significantly less damaging than someone who bothers going 30 into air.

Are you really playing guardian? Seems you forgot scepter has an immobilize. I’ll let the glass engi out because my point really was that you need to be close range to burst.So yes, I never denied that guardian has less soft cc options : what I said from the get go is that it has good offensive abilities and better defensive abilities than most. Adding soft cc on top of it would make it op.

For the last time, d/d does no damage when it is at 400-600 so it NEEDS the soft cc. A guardian can use scepter/torch or scepter/focus and still be effective at that range. How is that complicated? =__=

I admit in my last post that ele can have better condition removal so why are we even going there? anyway, yes, if you put 30 points into a defensive traitline and then use a utility specially designed to remove conditions in that case it is obvious you will be able to remove conditions easily . You could build your meditation guardian to get some condition removals too, if you add on top of that rune of lyssa (which is not viable with an ele due to the long CDs on the elite) and contemplation of purity you get condition cleanses that are at least as good as an elementalist without ER.

As I keep reading your post, it seems you are unaware of those possibilities. You can get the trait to remove 1 condition per 10s, and even run the heal Signet, one more condition per 10s. That, on top of Smite condition (1 /16s) and rune of lyssa/Contemplation of purity gives you something that is just as good if not better than an ele without ER.You could even get the trait that removes 3 conditions when you use one of the virtues (can’t remember which) and it would be even stronger.

Now ER has two weaknesses I’ll explain before you go into this further :

1) you channel it for more than 3s so you are giving time to your opponent
2) it can be interrupted from the very start so that you get no heal from it, and you will die

Again, high risk, decent reward.

Now that conditions are out of the way (you seem to be unaware of lyssa being so strong), I hope you will finally see that ele and guardian are almost on par for that matter.

There is one point I would like to tackle now :

If you add guardian base armor (2400 for a glass meditation guard compared to 1800 for ele and 1900 for engi I think) + Shield of Wrath + Shelter + Renewed Focus + the blinds : yes, guardian has far better survivability and ways to nullify damage.

Lucentfir.7430:

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

I don’t get how asking for some Soft CC(at least from me and a few others) to stick to moving foes is wanting a Warrior in secret. Also most of our builds we sacrifice for things(as it should be) we want to do with our guard. Warriors have high base HP pools, and Armor, greatest mobility speeches are obviously aimed at GS users, or the troll GS/S+W build using Bull’s Charge, outside of those builds though Warriors have decent mobility. They don’t have to sacrifice as much to get other things compared to the other classes.

Because guardian is already strong and the lack of soft cc is the only thing keeping it from becoming a new warrior. If you want to stick to your fleeing opponents so bad, just get Rune of Speed.

@Uhatmeit
20 in lighting is good enough for me to do damage damage added zerker armor and a mix of trinkets you’ll do pretty good damage. Burning Speed hits hard, Ring of Fire hits for Decent damage too, Ring of Earth does good damage as well, and Air/ Lighting Whip spam adds up quick. And I don’t need to use ER since I have good Condition clearing already(Unless i really need to when i’m dueling a condition spammer, and he/she already trumps my condition removal)

It’s obvious to me you haven’t played a guardian that much if not at all,,with Runes of Lyssa, lowest CD we have is 90s, and ofc the clearing when you need it with Renewed focus or even the tomes, you have to wait until the end of the channel to even receive benefit of the removal and boon gain. Signet of Resolve isn’t reliable for condition removal, and untraited is a 40s Heal, You’ll lose a anti burst from shelter, and if you take the purity trait you lose Focused mind or Meditation CD reduction(Good Trade off).

You keep bringing up scepter/X, the weapon is kinda bad unless you really need to stay out of range and try to hit things, in which someone could just walk back and forth and not get hit. and again trade off is one of our weapons (GS, or S), the immoblize is minor, all the damage you’re supposed to be doing comes from the Scepter’s AA’s(Only works well when you’re in 600 range) and people actually sitting in smite long enough to get hit by the full duration.

The blocks the blinds and all are to make up for the low base HP we have like ele, and general lack of mobility outside of GS and Sword/X(Eles have great access to swiftness and mobility skills). Eles had Great mobility, they still have decent mobility.

@ this comment
Because guardian is already strong and the lack of soft cc is the only thing keeping it from becoming a new warrior. If you want to stick to your fleeing opponents so bad, just get Rune of Speed.

Ahhahahah! Thanks for the laugh, and I do agree that guards are pretty solid/balanced, but people complain about warriors because a whole board of reasons, where can I start? best health pool, best armor , condition immunity(Zerker stance), fastest land speed with GS, stunlocking(Hammer, Mace, etc), and big DEEPS, Healing Signet(because 500 HPS with Adrenal heal, and even more with regen), movement impairment invulnerability(Dogged March, Melandru runes/-condition runes, Lemongrass food) one of the best condition removal traits(Cleansing Ire), builds that one shots squishy players, doesn’t sacrifice much to do the above. Because guardian obviously has almost all that, giving them soft CC would push them into becoming a new Warrior. By the way I run traveler’s it does help, however I still can’t keep up sit someone who spams movement impairment effects on me, and whenever I see a engineer i run away because I’ll just be frustrating myself trying to chase him/her down while they drop bombs or grenade spam, which often leaves me with a bar full of conditions and near if not more then a minute of poison. Same thing with necros, only if i chase them, i have to be sure to take them down Asap otherwise Dhummfire terror, and I’m dead in a few seconds even with removal.

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

No. I have a warrior, and I find it boring as hell. I prefer the playstyle of guardian, but I just got tired of not being able to keep up with anything because of a silly design philosophy.

i would agree Guardian is most balanced.

cant kill vs high survive = Balanced
low hp vs high self heal = Balanced
Quite good dps vs Weak Moving Target = Balanced
Good Vigor Escape Skill vs Rooted you die = Balanced
3 Swiftness skill vs Very Long CD = Balanced
Many Boon vs 2hit kill by Thief = Balanced

@Lucentfir

Come come now, you could spell my nick properly . Yes, in WvW, why not. In PvP, even full zerker you won’t do near enough damage with such traits.

Concerning Rune of Lyssa : it is a must in PvP and so is Renewed Focus. Of course it is 90s, but…on the other hand, it’s another full cleanse (well it will “only” remove 5 conditions after the patch but it’s still good). A full cleanse on top of decent condition removal abilities allow guardian to cleanse rather well. Btw, all the good guardians in PvP use Rune of Lyssa (or Rune of Speed to a lesser extent). I assume you don’t play sPvP very often otherwise you would know how amazing that set of runes is.

Signet of Resolve isn’t reliable indeed, my point is that you have access to options to get condition removal without hurting the meditation build (that still stands since the trait to reduce CD is not hard to get).And yeah you’ll have to give up something to get the -1condition per 10s trait but not the meditation CD reduction ofc. Just saying you can get condition removal (which is a good thing in this meta).

I am just saying guardians have good condition removal if they want to, kitten xD

I keep bringing it because it gives ranged options if you’re being kited a bit. sPvP (the mode i’m talking about, not WvW where you’re frustrated that your ennemies kite you) is conquest, which means people tend to stay on point. Still, they can move outside of Smite (you can immobilize them…) but at least they take one of two hits from it. No one will ever stand in it except noobs. Again, a lot of skilled guardian players use scepter in sPvP.
I honestly don’t know which game mode you’ve been playing.

I know why warriors are op and I don’t need you to explain it to me.Btw, sPvP warriors use Rune of Lyssa too, not rune of melandru.Guardian is strong, so strong that good guardians with meditation builds manage to kill hambows (ask Phaeton, I have no clue how he does it but he claims he can).

As for an engineer, know this : the best way for an engineer to use grenades/ bombs is if you chase him. So don’t, you’re sure to take them all in your face if you do.Save your meditation teleport to use GS cc or whirl on his face when he runs. If all he does is running and he doesn’t wanna fight, I agree it’s gonna be impossible to kill him, but the same could be said about many classes.

As for necros, Dhuumfire is getting nerfed so I fail to see your point.

I think you only play WvW and I suggest you try sPvP, you might see the game in a new light.

I will agree Lyssa is a great rune I’m not going to argue about that, and most of what I’m talking about is in wvw(I duel and roam). Spvp wise Lyssa is normally a ideal choice, for a DPS spec needing more clearing(though 90s CD, and having to wait 2-3s to recieve benefit is what kinda kills it for me). Outside of it though other Rune sets like Travelers(the better version of Speed runes) will compete with it. Especially in roaming based builds(then again meditation guardian is a roaming spec), since roaming specs need to not move like a turtle.. You assume wrong.

Alright i get what you’re saying, they have decent condition removal, but it’s too easy to overload them with conditions , after the first initial clear, and you have to time your condition removals well, for things like a 8 stacks of bleeding, poison for 15s confusion, poison and such.

Signet of Resolve gives you a 1 clear every 10s when you don’t have it on CD. By taking Sigent of Resolve you lose Shelter which is 2 seconds of breathing space, which Meditations do indeed use over SoR. It synergizes with Might of the Defender(A stack of might every time you block) and it’s a anti burst. SoR allows no breathing room and it’s hard to interrupt(Except by things like Binding blade when they already have the chains on them, Warding, unblockable interrupts.)

Again I speak from WvW aspect. I’ve only used scepter in duels where I can’t get close enough to the person, and they’re running around to much for me to make melee effective(Duels only, not roaming) I can see the use in Spvp if you’re trying to defend the node or you need to keep at a distance against someone camping on the node, or it’s to dangerous for melee with the point bombing.

I’ve played Warrior, and I’ve played guardian a lot. I’ve beaten Hambows before, and it’s all about knowing . Though most of the time it’s a lot more dangerous for the guardian. Properly timed blocks and blinds will help you greatly against hambows, however if you get stunlocked, you’re going to be punished heavily for it and the odds are going to tip into the warrior’s favor.

Easier said then done, getting pelted with pistol skills, and if you do the supposed combo, anyone who’s played guardian can see it coming, and dodge it, and if you manage to hook them, they’ll stunbreak out after the pull and gain some distance before pelting you again. Go in for melee combat, kit switch to bombs or grenades and spam you again. Chances are they have rocket boots to gain even more distance if you ever try to close in on them, and of course the lovely supply crate. Good luck with that.

I’m just saying how things are currently. Dhuumfire Terrormancer has instagib power, which easily kills meditation guardians(not them but a lot of other classes as well.)

And I’m going to say you think wrong, I dip in WvW and Spvp, Rank 42 FYI

Uhtameit.2413:

Aza.2105:

Andele.1306:

Burnfall.9573:

infantrydiv.1620:

Maybe if you wanted a more mobile class you shouldn’t have picked the heavy armor white mage archetype ^.^ not known for being particularly nimble

To begin with, how is it possible in mmo history where a Heavy Set warrior class run fast/er than a cheetah?

also…

How is it possible for a Heavy Set warrior to be the Undisputed King of Speed than the Light Set 125 pound cheetah?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vejjVgIHg

" This is Why You Can’t Outrun a Cheetah "

Of course

see> Warriors

There are these things called “trains” and “airships” and “charr siege tanks”, all of them run faster than a silly kitty cat for a much longer amount of time, why else do you think that getting away from a warrior feels like surviving a trainwreck? badum tshhh

P.S. To whiny people, if you feel lacking movement speed, play mesmer for a while, if you feel like lacking mobility, play necro for a while; also on that note movement speed =/= mobility.

Your point is invalid, both necro and mesmer have adequate range capabilities.

And guardian has scepter, focus, torch (scepter has the same range regardless of class, and if you wanna 1200 range, just use meditation teleport). As for soft cc, GS has one. That plus the other gap closers that were mentioned and guardian is just fine.

Theoretical perspectives like what you wrote above shows how little you have invested in the class. Theoretically scepter is a 1200 ranged weapon, but this is only when you look at the stats on paper.

Utilizing it in game tells a different tale, its probably one of the worst ranged options in the game. The slow and inaccurate projectiles negate any possible advantage it may have, making it a better melee weapon than ranged weapon. Most guardian who have invested a lot of time into the class will tell you that they use scepter when they do not have a choice, not because its a good weapon.

Focus is a good weapon, but its paired with sword more often. Torch skill 4 hits hard, but the weapon as a whole feels very weak in comparison to focus and even shield. No one really uses torch in wvw, pve or pvp. Seeing that you recommended using the hammer to be able to apply chill shows you have a vast disconnection with the class itself. You are more so clinging to concepts, technicalities and theoretical ideas instead of application itself.

@Lucentfir

Guardian never was the beast roamer out there because it is far from having the best mobility. If it doesn’t have a target, it has a very poor mobility actually. And perhaps I did assume wrong, but you didn’t mention Lyssa and the possibility to be able to use it is very nice for guards.

To be honest it’s easy to overload anyone with conditions if they take your grenades/bombs except : war and necro.

About the heals, I know. Already commented on that, I’m not going that way twice.

Fighting a hambow is most dangerous for the opponent of course, though guardian probably stands okay-chances (since my engi depends on doing condi damage and cc, good luck with Berserker Stance/ Balanced Stance/ Rune of Lyssa).

As for guardian vs engi, a duel where the engi uses his crate is pretty hard to win (except if you play hambow). Tbh bombs in a duel are just so unreliable I don’t really get how they can prove much of an issue (unlike grenades), they’re more of a way to make sure you don’t come close.If they have rocket boots/tool kit/ grenades or bombs, they don’t have a stun breaker (that’s what I run actually) which puts them at risk against a few other classes so you know…paper, scissors, etc…

@Aza

Nah nah nah I never meant that scepter has 1200 range, nothing will land at that range. Even the wiki says that “The maximum damage range for scepters is 940 – 1,060” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scepter ). I meant that it’s a short range option, you can use it at say 400-600. Scepter is actually pretty good in sPvP AFAIK.

I know quite a few decent guardians who use torch with scepter in PvP so it’s not that weak. For instance it’s quite good coupled with sword/focus and the GM trait that gives +15% crit one one-hand weapons.

Again, no no no no, I suggested to get the trait to chill because the OP asked for soft cc options. This is one of the few guardian already possesses. Don’t bend my words into some other meaning : the trait is not amazing, but it is a soft cc. And it is pretty much reliable if you use it with the GM i just mentionned that could get you around 65% crit.

Black Box.9312:

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

No. I have a warrior, and I find it boring as hell. I prefer the playstyle of guardian, but I just got tired of not being able to keep up with anything because of a silly design philosophy.

so u have a suv but it is boring and the ferrari is just more fun to drive. but cause stupid design philosophy of ferrari u cant drive with them off-road. ???

seems reasonable

Uhtameit.2413:

I know quite a few decent guardians who use torch with scepter in PvP so it’s not that weak. For instance it’s quite good coupled with sword/focus and the GM trait that gives +15% crit one one-hand weapons.

Again, no no no no, I suggested to get the trait to chill because the OP asked for soft cc options. This is one of the few guardian already possesses. Don’t bend my words into some other meaning : the trait is not amazing, but it is a soft cc. And it is pretty much reliable if you use it with the GM i just mentionned that could get you around 65% crit.

Glacial Heart works with hammer only which is a two handed weapon, Right-Hand Strength doesn’t apply here. In addition, you have to sacrifice Monk’s Focus (read sustain) if you want to have Focused Mind for Fury and Glacial Heart at the same time.

hooma.9642:

so u have a suv but it is boring and the ferrari is just more fun to drive. but cause stupid design philosophy of ferrari u cant drive with them off-road. ???

seems reasonable

And I thought every profession was supposed to be able to everything, this is not a trinity game or is it?

Althalos.6734:

Uhtameit.2413:

I know quite a few decent guardians who use torch with scepter in PvP so it’s not that weak. For instance it’s quite good coupled with sword/focus and the GM trait that gives +15% crit one one-hand weapons.

Again, no no no no, I suggested to get the trait to chill because the OP asked for soft cc options. This is one of the few guardian already possesses. Don’t bend my words into some other meaning : the trait is not amazing, but it is a soft cc. And it is pretty much reliable if you use it with the GM i just mentionned that could get you around 65% crit.

Glacial Heart works with hammer only which is a two handed weapon, Right-Hand Strength doesn’t apply here. In addition, you have to sacrifice Monk’s Focus (read sustain) if you want to have Focused Mind for Fury and Glacial Heart at the same time.

hooma.9642:

so u have a suv but it is boring and the ferrari is just more fun to drive. but cause stupid design philosophy of ferrari u cant drive with them off-road. ???

seems reasonable

And I thought every class was supposed to be able to everything, this is not a trinity game or is it?

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

hooma.9642:

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Because all professions were meant to be able to perform in every aspect of game on equal level, they were just meant to do their job in a different way. Which actually means guardians should have been given something in return in form of traits/profession mechanics and not mandatory items.

And a bit more on topic, I’m more in favor of granting the guardian better access to soft CC than more mobility.

Althalos.6734:

hooma.9642:

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Because all professions were meant to be able to perform in every aspect of game on equal level, they were just meant to do their job in a different way. Which actually means guardians should have been given something in return in form of traits/profession mechanics and not mandatory items.

And a bit more on topic, I’m more in favor of granting the guardian better access to soft CC than more mobility.

funny cause guardian has some good skills to hinder enemy movement.

hooma.9642:

Althalos.6734:

hooma.9642:

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Because all professions were meant to be able to perform in every aspect of game on equal level, they were just meant to do their job in a different way. Which actually means guardians should have been given something in return in form of traits/profession mechanics and not mandatory items.

And a bit more on topic, I’m more in favor of granting the guardian better access to soft CC than more mobility.

funny cause guardian has some good skills to hinder enemy movement.

Like?

Hammer3 is easily dodged.

Hammer5/staff5 is easily run over with stability or dodged over

Scepter 3 is not bad, but scepter…. yeah….

GS5 again stability, but it’s not bad I guess, just not all that great and a longish reuse even with traits to lower it.

Sorry if that came off as a bit rude, that’s not the intention, but really, what moves are you talking about? If there’s something I’m missing I’d love to know, but my experiences with the ones above are just mediocre at best.

Jerus.4350:

hooma.9642:

Althalos.6734:

hooma.9642:

running as fast like a ferrari has nothing to with trinity. all classes can build in every possible way. there are enough tools, like in this example runes, to compensate in some way possible disadvantages throught design. is it equal effective? no, but why should it?

Because all professions were meant to be able to perform in every aspect of game on equal level, they were just meant to do their job in a different way. Which actually means guardians should have been given something in return in form of traits/profession mechanics and not mandatory items.

And a bit more on topic, I’m more in favor of granting the guardian better access to soft CC than more mobility.

funny cause guardian has some good skills to hinder enemy movement.

Like?

Hammer3 is easily dodged.

Hammer5/staff5 is easily run over with stability or dodged over

Scepter 3 is not bad, but scepter…. yeah….

GS5 again stability, but it’s not bad I guess, just not all that great and a longish reuse even with traits to lower it.

Sorry if that came off as a bit rude, that’s not the intention, but really, what moves are you talking about? If there’s something I’m missing I’d love to know, but my experiences with the ones above are just mediocre at best.

.. but stability

u act like stability wasnt there for a reason.

Jerus.4350:

Hammer5/staff5 is easily run over with stability or dodged over

I think dodge doesn’t even work.

All disable is countered with stability. It’s nothing uniquely weak about guards. Don’t complain about it.