Guild Wars 2

Just an idea, hoping to make Glacial Heart useful
Let me know what you think.

Change Glacial Heart to: whenever you apply burning to a foe with a Hammer equipped, you apply half the duration of that burning in chill.

NOW I don’t mean every time burning ticks, I mean whenever you apply it!

I think this could really open up a solid hammer build for Guardian in PvP, since the current version of Glacial Heart relies on critical hit chance. Also, the change I purposed would hopefully make Purging Flames something we actually see from time to time.

currently
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glacial_Heart

Critical hits with hammer chill enemies.
Chance on critical hit: 50%
30s Recharge time

are you asking to remove the recharge time of 30 seconds and change the way it activates?

how many seconds does this chill last by the way?

i think he was pretty clear, it would last half the duration of the applied burn.

wads.5730:

i think he was pretty clear, it would last half the duration of the applied burn.

oh sorry i was not being clear.

i meant, currently, what is the current duration?
because the wiki does not state how long the chill duration is.

Hmm, I will edit it me thinks, try to be more clear.

I think it is 4 or 5 seconds. But since it is on a 30 second cooldown, AND it relies on critical hits to proc, seems like a bad trait that no one takes

I tried it with my Guardian, and it just does not work.

Serdoc.7261:

Hmm, I will edit it me thinks, try to be more clear.

I think it is 4 or 5 seconds. But since it is on a 30 second cooldown, AND it relies on critical hits to proc, seems like a bad trait that no one takes

I tried it with my Guardian, and it just does not work.

so currently, it chills for 4 or 5 seconds, but with a 30 seconds recharge time, and a 50% chance to activate on a critical hit, plus this is a master trait?

yes, this trait needs a major overhaul.

i think what you suggested may work better.

Consider the hypothetical highest possible amount of chill uptime.

1. Maximise condition uptime. 30 pts in Zeal, 15% condition duration runes. This puts our condition duration at 145%.
2. Maximise burning uptime. Burning uptime sigil for 20%, Virtue of Justice trait for increased procs.
3. Maximise chill uptime. Chill uptime sigil for 20%, Glacial Heart.

You will apply a 1.65 second burning effect every 3 hits. You will then apply a (1.65/2)*1.65=1.36125 second Chill with every 3rd hit.

Obviously, there are huge double-dipping issues with this trait. This doesn’t even include using Permeating Wrath or any of the utilities which apply Burning, or any foods.

Sarrs,
what if it is a base 1 s of Chill only regardless of burn duration?
increased by traits, sigil, food?

in sPvP it would only be affected by traits and sigil though.

+ condi duration is capped at 100%

Serdoc.7261:

Just an idea, hoping to make Glacial Heart useful
Let me know what you think.

Change Glacial Heart to: whenever you apply burning to a foe with a Hammer equipped, you apply half the duration of that burning in chill.

NOW I don’t mean every time burning ticks, I mean whenever you apply it!

I think this could really open up a solid hammer build for Guardian in PvP, since the current version of Glacial Heart relies on critical hit chance. Also, the change I purposed would hopefully make Purging Flames something we actually see from time to time.

The trait has an internal cooldown of 30 seconds, it is obviously not intended to perma-chill an opponent (nor is that a good concept in general). Your change would make the trait (and Guardian as a whole) way too powerful with supreme justice/radiant fire and rune of ice/sigill of chilling.
Besides, he crit restriction can easily be circumvented by a sigill of intelligence.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Sarrs,
what if it is a base 1 s of Chill only regardless of burn duration?
increased by traits, sigil, food?

in sPvP it would only be affected by traits and sigil though.

Keep in mind, we are considering the absolute extreme possibility. This is how far you can push this trait.

In that circumstance, you’re now applying far more Chill. Each of those Justice procs are now applying 100%30%15%+20%=1.65 second chills; more than they were applying previously. It is less expensive on sigils, as well, as you now have a free sigil slot, as opposed to needing to jack up your Burn duration.

We could alternatively use Superior Rune of the Ice instead of a generic Condi Duration run, and jack that Chill up even further to a 1.8 second chill every third hit.

It’s also no longer interacting with Burning utilities that well. It still is, but not as well. I’m more or less fine with that, but it should be an explicit component of the trait.

My opinion on Glacial Heart as it is, right now: It’s not taken because it’s too expensive. It’s in a line that’s out of the way and not otherwise very useful for a Hammer Guardian, which is a build which already requires at least 4 trait points in an out of the way line to operate.

Overall, I’d possibly argue that Hammer Guardians simply have too many traits. They’re worse than Longbow Rangers in that it’s completely impossible to actually get all your Hammer-appropriate traits; you can’t get all 3 writs and Two-Handed Mastery, and you have to spend another 5 points in Zeal to get the symbol boosters and you have to spend 4 points in Valor to get Glacial Heart. Zeal is sadly afflicted with a lack of good Master traits, and its Adepts are mediocre without points elsewhere propping them up.

Even if you don’t invest fully into beefing up your Hammer, and you just want the essentials w/ Glacial Heart, you’re still spending 30440, leaving a woefully low amount of points to round out your build.

So, to sum up:
1. Glacial Heart being Master Valor puts it out of reach.
2. Guardians have too many Hammer (and Symbol, therefore Hammer) traits.
3. The Zeal line’s weak/overly specific Master traits weaken the tree.

Sarrs.4831:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Sarrs,
what if it is a base 1 s of Chill only regardless of burn duration?
increased by traits, sigil, food?

in sPvP it would only be affected by traits and sigil though.

Keep in mind, we are considering the absolute extreme possibility. This is how far you can push this trait.

In that circumstance, you’re now applying far more Chill. Each of those Justice procs are now applying 100%30%15%+20%=1.65 second chills; more than they were applying previously. It is less expensive on sigils, as well, as you now have a free sigil slot, as opposed to needing to jack up your Burn duration.

We could alternatively use Superior Rune of the Ice instead of a generic Condi Duration run, and jack that Chill up even further to a 1.8 second chill every third hit.

It’s also no longer interacting with Burning utilities that well. It still is, but not as well. I’m more or less fine with that, but it should be an explicit component of the trait.

---

My opinion on Glacial Heart as it is, right now: It’s not taken because it’s too expensive. It’s in a line that’s out of the way and not otherwise very useful for a Hammer Guardian, which is a build which already requires at least 4 trait points in an out of the way line to operate.

Overall, I’d possibly argue that Hammer Guardians simply have too many traits. They’re worse than Longbow Rangers in that it’s completely impossible to actually get all your Hammer-appropriate traits; you can’t get all 3 writs and Two-Handed Mastery, and you have to spend another 5 points in Zeal to get the symbol boosters and you have to spend 4 points in Valor to get Glacial Heart. Zeal is sadly afflicted with a lack of good Master traits, and its Adepts are mediocre without points elsewhere propping them up.

Even if you don’t invest fully into beefing up your Hammer, and you just want the essentials w/ Glacial Heart, you’re still spending 30440, leaving a woefully low amount of points to round out your build.

So, to sum up:
1. Glacial Heart being Master Valor puts it out of reach.
2. Guardians have too many Hammer (and Symbol, therefore Hammer) traits.
3. The Zeal line’s weak/overly specific Master traits weaken the tree.

ouch. i give up.
how about we remove this trait completely and replace it with something better?

People are forgetting what exactly a Hammer Guardian is. Gets in the game and try to land 3hits on your target and then tell yourself how do you feel. And that is required you to have 0/0/4/0/4, you are not going to get everything in one build.

Rather than 50% chill of your burning duration, I think 1/2sec chill on every Burning is fine.

While Sarrs’ math is terrible due to not taking into account the +100% duration cap, having those duration increases is a big issue.

For example, lets say that with no +duration at all, VoJ procs for a 1 second burn. 50% of that is .5 seconds. Not too terrible.

At +50% duration, VoJ procs for 1.5 seconds. This would create a .75 second Chill, but that Chill also would benefit from the + condition duration, creating a 1.125 second Chill.

At +100% condition duration (easy to accomplish in PvE/WvW), VoJ procs for a 2 second Burn, which would then create a 1 second chill, benefitting from condition duration to become a 2 second chill. At +100% condition duration, you would be inflicting Chill equal to your Burning duration. On a Necro, this wouldn’t be an issue (one source of burning), but on a Guardian, it’s OP.

How about Glacial Heart adds 1 second of chill to the hammer’s #2 skill Mighty Blow?

Hmm, yeah, I guess specking hard into condition duration would sorta ruin my idea
I just want Glacial Heart to not be so useless…

Serdoc,
how about this?

Glacial Heart Trait line Valor | Tier Master | Type Major
10 s Recharge time
Critical hits with hammer chill enemies.
Chilled: 3 s
Chance on critical hit: 100%

keep it simple heheheh.

i was comparing it with this ranger ranged axe skill:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winter%27s_Bite

Winter’s Bite
“Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.”
Damage: 168 (0.5)?
Chilled: 3 s
Weakness: 10 s
Range: 900

i think a 10 s recharge along with a 3 s chill would be very fair and reasonable.

what do you think?

Not so much. A 15 second cooldown would be more fair.

The reason why is because comparing it to an actual skill is faulty. Winter’s Bite has a definite entity you need to dodge. Glacial Heart doesn’t. If you dodge what would have been a crit, that doesn’t mean the next hit won’t trigger it instead.

Then there’s the issue, again, with +duration. Getting up to a 6 second chill every 10 seconds without using any specific skills is probably a little too strong. Yes, I realize Hydromancy sigils can do the same, though that forces you out of 5 skills for 10 seconds.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Serdoc,
how about this?

Glacial Heart Trait line Valor | Tier Master | Type Major
10 s Recharge time
Critical hits with hammer chill enemies.
Chilled: 3 s
Chance on critical hit: 100%

keep it simple heheheh.

i was comparing it with this ranger ranged axe skill:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winter%27s_Bite

Winter’s Bite
“Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.”
Damage: 168 (0.5)?
Chilled: 3 s
Weakness: 10 s
Range: 900

i think a 10 s recharge along with a 3 s chill would be very fair and reasonable.

what do you think?

You forget guardians are not meant to have reliable soft CC

How about:

Virtue of Justice applies half seconds of burn as chill. This applies for both active and passive.

Should be great in stacking situations.

I once tried a berserker build with glacial heart + runes of fire and air on my hammer. Did 75% of a thief hps with the #3 skill (glacial heart can crit).

I think your suggestion is too conditional and not an improvement over the current form of Glacial.

Glacial heart isn’t useless. It looks that way because you’re expecting to much from it. It itself is not the answer for all your chill problems, but rather a piece of the total puzzle. You can easily get perma chill on a guardian when you combine glacial heart, runes of ice, sigils of ice and hydromancy, and since extra condition duration or sources of chill from food. Now granted, you’ll have to sacrifice a bit to get all of that, but that’s excellent balance design. Specializing costs. Try it sometime.

Note, this isn’t too say I think glacial heart is completely fine, but it’s more fine then these changes warrant.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While Sarrs’ math is terrible due to not taking into account the +100% duration cap, having those duration increases is a big issue.

Quickly reviewing, it does not appear as though said cap is a problem in my math. If food is included, it will cause that, but I didn’t include it for the sake of sPvP.

Can you please show me where my math is erroneous?

i have a sort of lore build based around guardikittening Glacial heart, ice/chilling sigils and runes of svanir, specced heavily for symbols, using zerker amulet, it deals a decent amount of damage and procs quite alot of chills, also turning into a block of ice at low hp is pretty cool XD

but i agree the cooldown is so wrong, 4s chill on a 30 second cooldown.
an ele with Glyph of Elemental Power can apply 2 seconds of chill every 5 seconds.
a necro with Plague Form and Chilling Darkness can perma AoE chill, blind and poison for 20 seconds.

Plague form has a 180s cd though. That’s 1/9 uptime if you use all of it. Glacial heart is 1/7.5 uptime. Glacial heart also has an unlockable, direct damage component with it that can crit. It’s a bit different than your examples. It’s a better version of the ice rune 4/6 benefit, or a modified elementalist’s frozen burst.