Guild Wars 2

While roaming the forums around, and the professions sub-forums precisely. I noticed how many are clearly misinformed about guardians. Someone said that guardians are in a good spot, when we actually are not.
Our core problems are not addressed, and that been for a long time. We get nerfed (I don’t mind when getting nerfed is bringing us in line with everyone) when others are clearly in “need” to brought to “earthly matters”.

So, why is there none talking about us being broken (in profession balance)? If we are in a good spot, why isn’t the others in line with us? Why are people confusing “Warriors” survivability with “Guardians”?

Are we accepting that we are okay cause someone said we are? Where are all the guardians? I know many re-rolled, or play others, but still.

Actually guardians are there balance wise where all the other professions should be.
In that sense they are in a “good” spot. It is only that the other professions are not…

Edit: To clearify i dont mean that guardian dont have problems that should be addressed, it is only that the other profession problems are much worse.

Muchacho.2390:

Actually guardians are there balance wise where all the other professions should be.
In that sense they are in a “good” spot. It is only that the other professions are not…

Only one or two guardian builds are in a good spot.

The guardian meta hasn’t changed since launch either.

styx.7294:

Muchacho.2390:

Actually guardians are there balance wise where all the other professions should be.
In that sense they are in a “good” spot. It is only that the other professions are not…

Only one or two guardian builds are in a good spot.

The guardian meta hasn’t changed since launch either.

Eeeexactly! Give the other trait lines survivability skills :’(

Because they probably see guardian as being in a nice spot. Being in a nice spot doesn’t mean you’re an alpha class tearing stuff up. No, it means you’re not bad, not good, but a nice balance and the goal for every class.

Some professions are going to be better, some will be worse, and their goal will be to get everything to somewhere in the middle.

Now it would be nice to get some horizontal changes, making spirit weapons worth using outside of shield for instance.

While I do agree, that generally speaking; Guardians are in a good balance spot. It is the fact that it has been for a long time, things changed. Guardians got nerfed, others getting buffed, while others are left broken. When you say that Guardians are in a good spot, while some has been over for a long time; that is what I am talking about.

That’s not a good spot, that’s just an excuse to use to leave someone and not address their issues. That goes for all professions, not just guardians.

xFx.3247:

While I do agree, that generally speaking; Guardians are in a good balance spot. It is the fact that it has been for a long time, things changed. Guardians got nerfed, others getting buffed, while others are left broken. When you say that Guardians are in a good spot, while some has been over for a long time; that is what I am talking about.

That’s not a good spot, that’s just an excuse to use to leave someone and not address their issues. That goes for all professions, not just guardians.

Aye, well personally I’m too new to really comment on balance (browsing more to learn than to comment), but felt it was worth commenting as the way I see that comment being intended was more “if we buff guardians they’ll probably be OP, if we nerf them they’ll be underpowered, so we’re stumped on them and find it better to just be safe and not touch them too much”.

Personally I can see where that may be the view, I find guardian nice. Doesn’t mean we couldn’t use a complete overhaul on like half our skills. I swear half the skills I have I simply can’t find a very good use. Mainly Spirit weapons, other than shield… why use any of them?

As I said, it is just becoming an excuse not to address our issues. Spirit weapons dies fast, and are slow actually. On paper, it seems that they had a plan for them but they stopped during; Leaving them broken kind of and useless (Except some uses….).

The new traits are useless (plenty) that even on paper/theory crafting, they don’t fit. If only the developers shared their view, instead of being quiet. We know that they are busy, but keeping us in the dark isn’t helping anyone.

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

WvW
Guardians probably are the most popular profession in organized WvW guilds since they are hands down some of the best front-liners available.

sPvP
Guards are still considered a must-have for most teams since they are such strong bunker/team support. They also work well as meditation DPS.

There will always be people who reroll after getting a case of seeing greener on the other side, but the bottom line is that almost no other class in the game is viable in as many areas as guardians are while having as many viable builds as guardians do.

PVE wise: Guardians are in a good spot, the fact that their “symbols” actually works (Connects) there, is kind of a plus; Otherwise, no. A lot of professions bring something/a-lot into the table and their damage is also not so far behind(if not on par with them).

WvW: Guardians plays nicely, seemingly cause there isn’t much to do in WvW. Bringing a guardian won’t make you “instant-win”, button. So perhaps you should elaborate this with an example or two, if you would be kind.

sPvP:
Warriors are actually stronger bunker than guardians at the moment (that’s why I said that there is a lot of confusion about warriors survivability and guardians). Meditation DPS, looks nice but the fact the rest does it better with less risk. Thou, I enjoy playing a Guardian; However, I am not blind.

Aside from bunkering, I don’t think Guardian’s are in a good place. With lack of mobility, condition application, soft-cc, low tier health and the fewest(meaningful) passives in the game. No other profession has this many weaknesses.

Also, let me elaborate on what I mean by passives. Outside of Vigorous precision(which is getting nerfed), the Guardian relies on nothing outside of using skills properly. While I consider this balanced, the other professions have a plethora of powerful passives/procs that require zero though on that players part(IP, Dhuumfire, HS, Prot on dodge, ect.) All of these have a significant effect on the player/enemy.

See a pattern here? I’m not asking for more passives but instead to tone down the others in response to the Guardian lacking of such powerful effects.

Understandable what you mean Arken, but I believe that some wouldn’t be happy about having their professions getting nerfed a lot (thou some needs to be brought back to line). And we don’t want the game to be stale, it is nice that they are finally adding new traits and so. But I agree with you.

Guardians in general, sacrifice a lot to gain something, and that’s fine. But others doesn’t sacrifice much, but they gain a lot in many different aspects.

xFx.3247:

PVE wise: Guardians are in a good spot, the fact that their “symbols” actually works (Connects) there, is kind of a plus; Otherwise, no. A lot of professions bring something/a-lot into the table and their damage is also not so far behind(if not on par with them).

I found this kinda funny because actually if I had a main complaint about guardian it’s that I’m constantly blocking fire fields! Ugh I’m frustrated knowing how much might i’m blocking, and I’m sure the ele’s are just as frustrated if not more.

Be nice if they could somehow prioritize Light fields to always be chosen last if others are available. There’s times it’s nice, but more often than not I hate them. So sure symbols work… but I’m constantly conflicted on whether I even want to use them or not.

For myself, and I know other members of the Guardian community those words feel like more of an insult then anything else. I hate hearing or reading those four words.

I won’t say we are doing badly, or there are not areas that we doing very well. But in those areas, we are primarily using the same builds we were a year ago. This means they neglected what needs fixed, CC mobility signets and Spirit weapons

Guardian is well balanced in a sense that you can fit a role nicely when a player specs for it with one.

Guardian is not well balanced in a sense that the number of effective roles for it are very limited and it has many underwhelming skills and traits that have been woefully neglected.

While I won’t say that guardian as a class is suffering from the worst of class balance issues, it does bother me that there are a whole 2 different roles that it has effective builds for.

@Jerus:
I am talking about the fact, that Symbols will do damage, and give their boon; That’s what I meant by actually working and connecting.
@Talyn:
It is true, it’s starting to feel like an excuse for not addressing Guardian’s issues.
@Black Box:
It is okay, not be the best in every role you can fit; However, Guardian’s do sacrifice a lot to fill roles.

speaking from another class I wouldn’t hold your breath for a change, hell we just spent a good 2weeks+ on the ranger CDI stating issues and the patch coming up only makes things worse for us… they completely ignored our need to heavily trait and too many traits to make builds/weapons work within the same line but they decided to add more traits to lines like marksman which already has a good 5-7 traits needed and only 2 slots that can be filled by them… word of advice if you are unhappy, stop playing till Anet fixes their kitten, that’s pretty much what the ranger community is doing by the sounds of a lot of us.

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

WvW
Guardians probably are the most popular profession in organized WvW guilds since they are hands down some of the best front-liners available.

sPvP
Guards are still considered a must-have for most teams since they are such strong bunker/team support. They also work well as meditation DPS.

There will always be people who reroll after getting a case of seeing greener on the other side, but the bottom line is that almost no other class in the game is viable in as many areas as guardians are while having as many viable builds as guardians do.

There is one MAJOR flaw with your entire thing…. Playing Guardian isn’t fun.. it’s a CHORE. You MUST use these specific meta builds in order to survive, or you must sacrifice all your survivability (next to none, low hp) to do damage. Meaning you DIE before you can do any of that actual damage, especially when zerging

I understand what you mean Criminal, and you are right about that. It is getting a little frustrating to some degree. But lets not go into threaten to stop playing until things are fixed. Thou, I always say, if you are starting to get more angry when you are playing than having fun; That’s a sign to take a break or something like that.

Why nobody is talking about Guardians?

Abe Kleine.3568:

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

WvW
Guardians probably are the most popular profession in organized WvW guilds since they are hands down some of the best front-liners available.

sPvP
Guards are still considered a must-have for most teams since they are such strong bunker/team support. They also work well as meditation DPS.

There will always be people who reroll after getting a case of seeing greener on the other side, but the bottom line is that almost no other class in the game is viable in as many areas as guardians are while having as many viable builds as guardians do.

There is one MAJOR flaw with your entire thing…. Playing Guardian isn’t fun.. it’s a CHORE. You MUST use these specific meta builds in order to survive, or you must sacrifice all your survivability (next to none, low hp) to do damage. Meaning you DIE before you can do any of that actual damage, especially when zerging

If playing a Guardian is not fun why bother?
And those things you said also apply to any profession apart from a warrior.

When you play something, that is only getting nerfed; Their issues not being address, and the mechanism of their core didn’t change…..
Not to mention that misinformation that is going around.

Muchacho.2390:

Abe Kleine.3568:

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

WvW
Guardians probably are the most popular profession in organized WvW guilds since they are hands down some of the best front-liners available.

sPvP
Guards are still considered a must-have for most teams since they are such strong bunker/team support. They also work well as meditation DPS.

There will always be people who reroll after getting a case of seeing greener on the other side, but the bottom line is that almost no other class in the game is viable in as many areas as guardians are while having as many viable builds as guardians do.

There is one MAJOR flaw with your entire thing…. Playing Guardian isn’t fun.. it’s a CHORE. You MUST use these specific meta builds in order to survive, or you must sacrifice all your survivability (next to none, low hp) to do damage. Meaning you DIE before you can do any of that actual damage, especially when zerging

If playing a Guardian is not fun why bother?
And those things you said also apply to any profession apart from a warrior.

Well when I 1st started playing this game, I thought guard would be fun. I tried to use spirit weapons and other things cause they seemed cool. It was my 1st class, and before I knew it, I wasn’t having any more fun. I’m currently making a warrior since it honestly seems like more fun :/

In spvp guardian is dirty strong.. But it takes lots of practise!

I played 7k matches on warrior before I swapped to guard, wish I done it sooner…

Which build do you feel is strong in sPvP?

Sceptre Focus/GS

My advice is to play around with different builds (symbols, condi, support etc) as to play a good guard you need to do all these things at once.

Can you elaborate more please? Are you talking about condition build or meditation or?

^ as xFx said – don’t put empty word’s – “I play guardian, and guardians are good”.

Put on link to a build, make comparison to other dps – ele or thief, and explain how a dps guard isn’t a YOLO choice for teamQ.

IMHO only AH bunker with staff is currently on par with other classes chees/meta builds. Probable becaus there is bug with AH and Emporing might on staff. Short after Selfless Daring was ninja nerfed without any mention in path notes (the heal was cut in half) Staff Guard left as only viable tank allowing to throw some good support, heal and AoE stability. Sadly, it’s just another build that promotes repeating some patter to be most effective: dodge, dodge, EM, run like chiken with SoS, dodge, dodge, EM and so on.
Guardian is pigeonholed in to one meta build and 2 or semi viable DPS/offtank specs that require hell of a experience to pull off – not some passive AutowinWhenYouHaveHalfABrain classes

Last time I posted a build people started all playing hammer warrior in spvp.

Never again.

As monochrome said, and to be clear; We do have some builds, that someone can play. But they are not as good as their counter-parts on other professions. Meditation comes to mind for example.
@Phaeton:
Its okay not wanting to post something, that doesn’t make your point valid thou. You can easily slap some traits and runes/sigils together then call it a day; That is a build after all. Thou you need to be specific about what build, cause in guardians case; Utilities depends on builds as well.

GW2 beta: Guardian WvW build : 0/5/30/30/5.
GW2 29/03/2014: Guardian WvW build: 0/0/30/30/10 (ty for purging flames).

There is NO build diversity for guardians in WvW. Even with the new traits.

True, and I guess many are trying to be optimistic that the new traits will be the beginning for more. Something to collect, and more things to customize.

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

We sacrifice too much to gain something (lets take damage dealing for example), making us high risk with okay reward. The problem is others do it better than us, and is less risky.
Take bunker/tank Guardians, they sacrifice all their damage (almost); Yet with their counter-part (Warriors, since they are the other heavy armor), they actually put pressure on the opponent unlike the Guardians.
Take spirit weapons, not to mention that they die so fast (making them redundant) without even trying to hit them. Their usefulness compared to lets say necromancers pets are not even remotely close.
I can start naming a lot of our utilities skills that are useless to most builds, and might only work in a certain build(s); Along with our Elite Skills being useless, but most are suffering from that.
We don’t want guardians to be overpowered, but its starting to feel that us being “balanced/in a good spot” is just an excuse that is being used to shut us up; While others are getting their new toys, and us watching…hoping.

Are we getting any of the “up-coming” conditions? Or perhaps Chill will be our trademark? Are we supposed to have our weakness remains our weakness, when that doesn’t apply for all(some) the other professions? What is our supposed “Role” in all these balances that’s going around among other classes?

Edit: Just to be clear, we don’t want to be immortal or something; But at least, give us some “new toys” that can be used.

Forgot to mention, give us some protection to our Condition (Burning).

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

Guardians have 1 single build for WvW. It hasn’t changed and the dev’s have NEVER addressed the issues w/ the class.

Guardians only have 3 tree’s for WvW: Valor, Honor & Virtues.

Guardians lack any sustain for DPS builds.

Guardians lack any soft CC.

Guardians lack any Condi build.

Guardians lack Mobility outside of GS/S+F and dont’ get anything in return for not specing GS+S/F in a DPS build.

Guardians have the lowest HP in a DPS Spec.

Guardians have the Clunkiest of Burst in the entire game…. suprah gimmick.

Guardians defense is Aegis and is wiped out by a 86 pt Ambient Attack.

Guardian has the longest of cooldowns in the entire game, both weapon, utility & elite.

Guardians have only been nerf’d since beta (albeit slightly) but have never gained any of thier dps back in any form from the multiple retal nerf’s.

Guardians have never… changed for any positive aspect of the game outside of the Staff Update.

Yep, that about sums it up, give or take.

Amins.3710:

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

Guardians have 1 single build for WvW. It hasn’t changed and the dev’s have NEVER addressed the issues w/ the class.

Guardians only have 3 tree’s for WvW: Valor, Honor & Virtues.

Guardians lack any sustain for DPS builds.

Guardians lack any soft CC.

Guardians lack any Condi build.

Guardians lack Mobility outside of GS/S+F and dont’ get anything in return for not specing GS+S/F in a DPS build.

Guardians have the lowest HP in a DPS Spec.

Guardians have the Clunkiest of Burst in the entire game…. suprah gimmick.

Guardians defense is Aegis and is wiped out by a 86 pt Ambient Attack.

Guardian has the longest of cooldowns in the entire game, both weapon, utility & elite.

Guardians have only been nerf’d since beta (albeit slightly) but have never gained any of thier dps back in any form from the multiple retal nerf’s.

Guardians have never… changed for any positive aspect of the game outside of the Staff Update.

Yep, that about sums it up, give or take.

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

Syeria.4812:

Amins.3710:

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

Guardians have 1 single build for WvW. It hasn’t changed and the dev’s have NEVER addressed the issues w/ the class.

Guardians only have 3 tree’s for WvW: Valor, Honor & Virtues.

Guardians lack any sustain for DPS builds.

Guardians lack any soft CC.

Guardians lack any Condi build.

Guardians lack Mobility outside of GS/S+F and dont’ get anything in return for not specing GS+S/F in a DPS build.

Guardians have the lowest HP in a DPS Spec.

Guardians have the Clunkiest of Burst in the entire game…. suprah gimmick.

Guardians defense is Aegis and is wiped out by a 86 pt Ambient Attack.

Guardian has the longest of cooldowns in the entire game, both weapon, utility & elite.

Guardians have only been nerf’d since beta (albeit slightly) but have never gained any of thier dps back in any form from the multiple retal nerf’s.

Guardians have never… changed for any positive aspect of the game outside of the Staff Update.

Yep, that about sums it up, give or take.

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

And while I can appreciate your opinion, you’re wrong. Those are known issues since beta for the other 2 tree’s we have, which have been neglected since Live.

Thanks, plz come again.

EDIT: And again, from a WvW perspective.

xFx.3247:

We sacrifice too much to gain something (lets take damage dealing for example), making us high risk with okay reward. The problem is others do it better than us, and is less risky.
Take bunker/tank Guardians, they sacrifice all their damage (almost); Yet with their counter-part (Warriors, since they are the other heavy armor), they actually put pressure on the opponent unlike the Guardians.

Warrior can do that because warrior is broken. The warrior bunker needs to see the same treatment that d/d ele bunkers saw.

xFx.3247:

Take spirit weapons, not to mention that they die so fast (making them redundant) without even trying to hit them. Their usefulness compared to lets say necromancers pets are not even remotely close.

Should they be equivalent to necro pets? I don’t really see the parallel. Some of the weapons may need a slight rebalance, but those are just minor tweaks to a small set of utilities, not really evidence that the class balance is poor.

xFx.3247:

I can start naming a lot of our utilities skills that are useless to most builds, and might only work in a certain build(s); Along with our Elite Skills being useless, but most are suffering from that.

I can start naming a lot of [insert class here]‘s utilities and elites that are useless to most builds. That’s literally true for every single class. It’s not a guardian issue at all.

xFx.3247:

We don’t want guardians to be overpowered, but its starting to feel that us being “balanced/in a good spot” is just an excuse that is being used to shut us up; While others are getting their new toys, and us watching…hoping.

Are we getting any of the “up-coming” conditions? Or perhaps Chill will be our trademark? Are we supposed to have our weakness remains our weakness, when that doesn’t apply for all(some) the other professions? What is our supposed “Role” in all these balances that’s going around among other classes?

Edit: Just to be clear, we don’t want to be immortal or something; But at least, give us some “new toys” that can be used.

Forgot to mention, give us some protection to our Condition (Burning).

So what you’re really saying is that it’s not that guardians aren’t in a good spot, you just want to shake up the meta. That’s a completely fair position to take, but if that’s what you want, say that. That has nothing to do with whether guardians are balanced or not.

Amins.3710:

Syeria.4812:

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

And while I can appreciate your opinion, you’re wrong. Those are known issues since beta for the other 2 tree’s we have, which have been neglected since Live.

Thanks, plz come again.

EDIT: And again, from a WvW perspective.

That’s not appreciating an opinion, that’s desperately hiding your head in the sand while telling yourself that if you scream louder than everyone else you’re right.

Again, you’re just complaining without providing any basis for the complaints or showing how anything you’ve whined about actually causes or indicates imbalance.

Thanks, but please don’t come back until you have something to contribute.

Syeria.4812:

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

You do know that problems get categorized right? Us not getting new things cause “we are in a good spot” need to stop, its not fun nor valid.

Can you define a “good spot”? For all your reasoning, we could argue that “Warriors” are in “good spot” and that the rest need to be brought up to that. I am interested to hear you defining the “good spot”, go on.

Edit: Replying to:
“So what you’re really saying is that it’s not that guardians aren’t in a good spot, you just want to shake up the meta. That’s a completely fair position to take, but if that’s what you want, say that. That has nothing to do with whether guardians are balanced or not.”

There are imbalances, and that’s fine. They try to make it balanced (it is a game after all), and differences are there for fun; However someone killing you in 2 shots without any chance to react isn’t balance.
Again, using something like “good spot” which doesn’t exists; We are literally getting that as an excuses for not making changes in Guardians (except when its nerfing something). But lets hear you define the good spot.

xFx.3247:

Syeria.4812:

Those are complaints, but almost none of those actually establish there being a problem. Almost all of those either fall into “Amins.3710 doesn’t actually like Guardian,” “Guardian hasn’t changed much,” or “Guardian isn’t super mega OP.”

I mean, I can whine that ele single target dps isn’t as good as some other classes, but that’s just a complaint, it doesn’t necessarily mean ele is in a bad spot. If you think something needs to change, make an argument. What you’re doing right now is just whining and complaining about more or less nothing.

You do know that problems get categorized right? Us not getting new things cause “we are in a good spot” need to stop, its not fun nor valid.

Can you define a “good spot”? For all your reasoning, we could argue that “Warriors” are in “good spot” and that the rest need to be brought up to that. I am interested to hear you defining the “good spot”, go on.

A “good spot” is all about balance. It means the class isn’t too powerful, but it’s not too weak. Is Guardian in a good spot? Take WvW as an example. It’s certainly not too weak, otherwise it wouldn’t be so overwhelmingly prevalent. Yet on the other hand, I don’t think you’ll find too many people arguing that it’s overpowered either. What makes something be not in a good spot? Well Healing Signet is an example, it’s just too powerful compared to the heals available from other classes, especially when combined with the high damage mitigation a warrior has access to. On the other end of the spectrum, there’s not really that much for too things that are too underpowered. Ranger could probably fit into that void for the average player (although high end rangers show that’s not necessarily a fair evaluation).

The point being (and my other reply to you indicated this more clearly) “a good spot” refers to balance, and not to some sort of measure of excitement, variety, or openness of meta.

You see, you re-arranged the line, so warriors healing signet is overpowered.; And that’s the thing. You put the “good spot”, what you don’t get is there is no such thing; Because different professions are different.
You can say damage is balanced when two professions are roughly doing the same damage (in reality). You are confusing balance with “good spot”, does Wall of Reflection makes Guardians overpower compared to Warriors? That’s a relative thing on how much having it changes how the battle goes.

A good spot is something relative, and I assume you know what relative means right? A good spot is something that depends on the “philosophy” behind the design. A good spot in imbalanced game is what you said “excitement, variety, or openness of meta.” along with the balance that I am talking about (Damaged, endurance, Etc).

Or perhaps you mean that a good spot is someone who can fill multiple roles (not at the same time of course)?

xFx.3247:

You see, you re-arranged the line, so warriors healing signet is overpowered.; And that’s the thing. You put the “good spot”, what you don’t get is there is no such thing; Because different professions are different.
You can say damage is balanced when two professions are roughly doing the same damage (in reality). You are confusing balance with “good spot”, does Wall of Reflection makes Guardians overpower compared to Warriors? That’s a relative thing on how much having it changes how the battle goes.

A good spot is something relative, and I assume you know what relative means right? A good spot is something that depends on the “philosophy” behind the design. A good spot in imbalanced game is what you said “excitement, variety, or openness of meta.” along with the balance that I am talking about (Damaged, endurance, Etc).

Or perhaps you mean that a good spot is someone who can fill multiple roles (not at the same time of course)?

No, you’re trying to mis-define things to mean what you like rather than what they are. Classes can fill different roles and still be balanced. Guardians don’t do as much damage as other classes, but they’re better at mitigating it for themselves and others. That’s balance. Guardians don’t have selfish mobility like some other classes do, but they provide more bonuses to their allies than those mobility classes do. That’s balance.

What you’re talking about doesn’t have anything to do with balance/imbalance. You’re bored of the current meta, and possibly don’t even actually like the class and want change. That’s not a balance issue, and “a good spot” has always been about their balance.

I’ve been playing same Guardian Shout GS build ever since I go level 80.
It just feels extremely boring.

What about fixing spirit weapons? Scepter? Mace? Shield?

Did you just say mitigating damage for themselves and others better than anyone else? You do know that people are complaining about Area Damage for a long time right? Are you talking about PvE perhaps? I am not mis-defining things, I am telling you how things are.
Also, balance is something that is like the “Winters” battle game (forgot the name); That is balance. What you are describing is profession diversity, and how they work differently.
Again, “Guardians in a good spot” should stop being used as an excuses not to make changes to us(not nerfing). I know how hard it is to make balanced game, and skills has a lot to do with balance…I am not sure why you are not getting that.

And I like Guardians, its why I choose them. I know plenty about balance also.

Syeria.4812:

Again, you’re just complaining without providing any basis for the complaints or showing how anything you’ve whined about actually causes or indicates imbalance.

Thanks, but please don’t come back until you have something to contribute.

And the same exact can be said for you, who desperately want’s your ele to get buffed before the guard, thus the resistance.

Instead, acknowledge that Anet can do both, but doesn’t care to address any issue.

Thanks for your “constructive” feedback, however if you can’t see the blaring issues w/ a melee class w/o soft CC and mobility in WvW… well.. nothing more to say but keep livin in that glass house.

Cheers mate.

Guardians are very strong and compete at the very highest levels within each of the three pillars of the game where builds actually matter (instanced pve, gvg and tpvp). In each of those aspects, guardians are very much in demand.

So it is clear why people state that they think they are “in a good place”. But I agree with the sentiment that this should not be used as an excuse to allow the class to stagnate or otherwise ignore it.

Spirit weapons are embarrassingly broken and a software company having them in a realeased product for over a year is like walking around with your pants around your ankles. Important trait lines are useless if you don’t use a single weapon (greatsword/zeal line) so that promotes a single-meta mentality which should be avoided. In the new patch they’re trying to push this pro-condition thing when guardians have a single condition that scales poorly and that every other class already applies to the target thus negating their entire build.

Using “guardians are in a good spot” as an excuse to not fix them for months is indefensible.

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

There have been plenty of valid posts about what is currently wrong with the guardian class. I don’t know whether you’re not understanding it or you’re just intentionally ignoring it, but these ARE significant issues, regardless of whether or not you think so.

xFx.3247:

While roaming the forums around, and the professions sub-forums precisely. I noticed how many are clearly misinformed about guardians. Someone said that guardians are in a good spot, when we actually are not.
Our core problems are not addressed, and that been for a long time. We get nerfed (I don’t mind when getting nerfed is bringing us in line with everyone) when others are clearly in “need” to brought to “earthly matters”.

So, why is there none talking about us being broken (in profession balance)? If we are in a good spot, why isn’t the others in line with us? Why are people confusing “Warriors” survivability with “Guardians”?

Are we accepting that we are okay cause someone said we are? Where are all the guardians? I know many re-rolled, or play others, but still.

You said “Someone said that guardians are in a good spot, when we actually are not.”

Can you explain to me what you mean by “we are actually are not (in a good spot)?”

Are you talking about build diversity which all classes need help with or that guardian are useless in any given game mode? If it is the first then is should be a general qq post about how ALL classes should have more build diversity since that seems to be a universal problem. If it is the later, I really don’t know about to say…