Guild Wars 2

So when I rolled a Ranger, I was told I would never be in a instance group because I lacked DPS. I changed to a Necromancer, and was told I would never be in a instance because I lacked utility. Made an Engineer and was told it was now because I lacked the right kind of utility/debuffs.

This community is kinda silly at times. These speed run elites and PvP/WvW heroes that seem to set the standards for everyone are such a waste of every new players time. So here’s my good lesson learned for any new players:

Find a class you like. Play it your way. Ignore the forums and anyone who tells you to clicka link and look at their build. WvW and PvP are no ddifferent then PvE. It’s all hitting the right button at the right time, and yes, any build works. Don’t worry about the Meta, it will change next month.

The problem is that it is true.

Also, rangers, engineers and necromanancers have never been a part of the meta, ever.

It’s not really ignoring the forums. The reality is that GW2 is terribly balanced in PvE, and Anet has yet to change that because their balance is around PvP.

(On that topic it just seems very illogical to balance a game around PvP but then make most of your updates PvE-related)

I’ve always pretty much WvW full time since launch but I ran this Fractal 10 one day with a full group of dead weight morons with useless builds and what I had to imagine was underpowered gear. We couldnt pass one of the maps.

Speed runs may be ridiculous, but go ahead and tell group/class/build comp doesnt matter at all. I dare you.

Group comp doesnt matter. At all. A bad group is just a bad group, snd fraction 10 also is where the challenge level rises, so most people are not gear ready for it when it comes available. I also ran a Guardian at one point and was told they were weak in DPS so not asgood as a warrior. That was about a year ago, but it fits the argument. All professions have group heals. All of them do damage. Most have buffs/debuffs on abilities that damage. So no. This speed run garbage is just that. Any group that works well together and knows the map can clear quickly. Stop pushing this lazy meta garbage.

As your own post says, ignore the forums and play what you want. Yes, speed clear groups exist, but you don’t need to join them. There are plenty of “all welcome” groups available for doing dungeons/Fractals etc.

Zaxares.5419:

As your own post says, ignore the forums and play what you want. Yes, speed clear groups exist, but you don’t need to join them. There are plenty of “all welcome” groups available for doing dungeons/Fractals etc.

Good job missing the point, which is any group make up that is properly geared can do speed runs. This meta garbage the community has adopted, is just that, garbage. So new players should ignore posts that refer to “the meta”, as it all changes in about a month.

“Any build works.”

That’s terrible advice if you don’t want to be a hindrance on people you play with. Not all builds are created equal (or anything in life for that matter), contrary to your fantasy that they are.

Kamui.4038:

“Any build works.”

That’s terrible advice if you don’t want to be a hindrance on people you play with. Not all builds are created equal (or anything in life for that matter), contrary to your fantasy that they are.

Obviously there are some that are so scattered they dont do anything. But I’ve been told a healing bombs build was weak, then not only out dps’d a thief in Fractals, but kept the party alive doing it. I’ve seen warrior builds that the forums said were terrible, work perfectly in a speed run. So yes, any build can work. It just takes a player who knows the profession and has the gear.

From my experience, anyone telling you a profession sucks, sucks at playing that profession, and anyone telling you an overused build is not overpowered is using that build because it’s overpowered.

I’ve done every single dungeon, and quite some with each profession, and with none I had any special trouble on any path or story. You just have to get used to your profession, know what it can and cannot do, and keep that profession’s mindset while playing as it, and change your skills based on what you expect to find.

Aside from extremely high level fractals, I’ve had no issues with group formation/acceptance while playing on either of my two rangers.

The pet however is largely to blame in regards to why the class isn’t favored, or even favorable to play, in certain situations. I find myself disgusted with the class despite being a ranged main in every game I play when forced into an AoE-heavy environment.

Its silly cause the meta works only in cordianted situations, if you are all noobs and pugging and you are in all zerkers and dont know the way to stack/blast right, you are just gonna have a harder time then if you just did it the right way.

my group is all friends of many years, and we were doing seraph of CM, bomb part right? and we had me(an engie) anda theif, so we were like “cant we just stealth the bomb part?” and sure enough you actually can. but…. you have to place all 5 barrels at the same time, or the bandits pick them up right away. that being said, even on skype we wasted a few minutes trying to skip the combat and just sneak 5 bombs at once. someone was alsways a split second off on placing.

So we just said “ok guard engie, just play point defense and fight the kittening bandits” so I place thumper and me and the guard locked down all the bandits while our party ran bombs. first attempt doing it the “intended” way? success. Due to lack of cordination? the “Easy” way was harder, if we were really good, we could have skipped it and done it in 5 seconds. but we are not speed runners, so we cant.

The meta makes people think they are good, when the meta actually only works when you are all playing meta and know how and why its good.

another unique snowflake trying to reinvent the wheel

the reason meta builds are wanted is because they have been tested over and over and have proven to work, due to certain mechanics in this game some classes are just inferior to others

the meta might change but that’s mostly due to skill updates not because some scrub like you says necros are good in pve srry but just stop posting your garbage

The meta is the meta for a reason. People who are serious about the game will find the most powerful combination of mechanics and will use them. I don’t believe in the idea that using a build you like as opposed the the meta is a good thing if you want to take the game seriously. If you run something that has been proven weaker than other alternatives and it loses the game for your team then you were selfish and screwed over the people you’re playing with. If you’re running with a group of friends who are OK with your decision that’s perfectly fine but for arenas like SoloQ and joining TPvP solo you should be running something that is at least viable in some way. Yes, you bought the game and that gives you the right to play how you want, within reason. If you ask me it isn’t moral to screw other people over in a competitive environment “for the lolz.” In a team game you make sacrifices for the group or things fall apart, your idea of fun doesn’t outweigh that of your teammates. You should still have fun of course, there’s at least one viable build for every playstyle, just don’t screw others over.

That being said, the meta can change with no balance changes from the devs. If you think you found a way to counter the meta then by all means try it out. Right now we see tons of people using runes of Strength and I’m already seeing more and more builds focused around boon stripping. If it keeps up we might see the meta shift because people will get tired of that Thief stealing all their Might and insta-gibbing them or a Necro turning them all into Weakness. Until that shift happens though, the meta is going to be the best because it’s been proven to be the most effective way of doing things. If you can play well with a non-meta build than I can almost guarantee that you would do better with the meta if you took the time to learn it. Depending on how difficult it is (but in this game nothing is that hard) you might not be better immediately but once you know it it’ll be better than what you had before.

That’s for PvP anyways, in PvE most of the same things apply and depending on if your group is going for a fast clear you having the right setup is even more important. In solo WvW roaming do whatever you want because you’re not hurting anyone but yourself if you run a non-meta build. It can be annoying dealing with someone who wants to be “anti-meta” and doing worse because of it. Don’t be that person, please.

All games ever are like this.

The community always focuses in on specific builds / classes / tactics which are deamed the fastest or easiest. The best advice if you don’t like it is to avoid such speedruns and find the community which accepts a wider ranges of players rather than trying to change everyones perception of every class.

PvE is to easy for min/maxing comps to matter. Players who speed run and use meta comps are never going to pug and have their own groups.

So yes it is silly. Unless you yourself want to do certain types of runs and fall into a crowed designed for it you can get away with anything.

Players however should be aware that certain encounters can be more annoying depending on the comp. For instance CoF p3, or SE p2, are always going to be worse off if your carrying two rangers.

You seem to be told a lot of things.
You out-dps a thief with heal bomb? What thief? Apothecary shortbow?

Bogy.2953:

another unique snowflake trying to reinvent the wheel

the reason meta builds are wanted is because they have been tested over and over and have proven to work, due to certain mechanics in this game some classes are just inferior to others

the meta might change but that’s mostly due to skill updates not because some scrub like you says necros are good in pve srry but just stop posting your garbage

I am a unique snowflake. Believe it or not, we all are. Being rude and condescending doesn’t make you right. As for the “tried and tested” I’ve run with the best guilds in MMO play. It’s bull. Someone in the guild makes a really good spec, and everyone decides that’s the only way that class can be played effectively. I know. I’ve seen it over and over.

So no. The Meta isn’t always “the best” and more often than not is hust a way for internet bullies and snobs like you to ostracize others.

Now, if people in a game that promotes unique builds and play styles decide to goose step to your Meta doctrine, that’s their choice. I’m just laying it out that there is a choice. That this Meta garbage is not the end all be all of the game.

You know, kinda like how you don’t have to be a slave to others opinions, but can live free and do as you like. :-)

The meta is often a very good reference for a new player to get a feel for what sort of cohesive builds exist in a game. Do you want to be a condi Necro? Here’s a few builds that people have run, and why. Do you want to run a Power Necro? Here are a few variations. It can be a very good starting point that you can piggy back on to create your own variation, or it can give you ideas and in general help you learn about the class.

However, I’m also irked by anyone who tries to play The Allmighty and stakes a claim on what should or should not be played, and how. My favorite is when they demonstrate they aren’t good at the game, but still try to tell you how to play.

The truth is that someone playing Zerker Meta in PvE could easily be a trash can who dies on every fight. Even, believe it or not, Condi Thieves or Backstab Thieves can roll the meta build and get trashed in PvP because they don’t know what the opponent can do.

As much as the meta can be a healthy starting point, it can also be a poisonous element to the community as well. The sheeple masses end up only being able to see or acknowledge the meta. They read about the meta, complain about what is imbalanced given the meta, only roll the meta, and preach the meta’s gospel blindly. That’s where all of my disappointment lies.

My first reaction to all of this Runes of Strength might-stacking business was: “Oh look, maybe it’s an opportunity for a boon stripping Necro to find its way into the meta, since the Necro forums have been alight with claims that Necros are useless currently.” What did I see on the forums?

“Nerf Runes of Strength”
“Might gives too much condition damage”
etc.

Within the bounds of the meta, Runes of Strength became a strong contender, and instead of trying to actually think about the game as a whole, those people who potentially tell others how to build/play based on the meta are trying to get the game balanced around the meta instead of letting it develop.

That was a long sentence, but the point remains.

At the end of the day, I use the meta as a reference point, whether it’s before or after I already created my build. If you want to be entertained, the next time someone tries to tell you how to play, just ask them “Why?”. I bet the majority of the time, the answer will be amusing.

Raiff.6742:

Bogy.2953:

another unique snowflake trying to reinvent the wheel

the reason meta builds are wanted is because they have been tested over and over and have proven to work, due to certain mechanics in this game some classes are just inferior to others

the meta might change but that’s mostly due to skill updates not because some scrub like you says necros are good in pve srry but just stop posting your garbage

I am a unique snowflake. Believe it or not, we all are. Being rude and condescending doesn’t make you right. As for the “tried and tested” I’ve run with the best guilds in MMO play. It’s bull. Someone in the guild makes a really good spec, and everyone decides that’s the only way that class can be played effectively. I know. I’ve seen it over and over.

So no. The Meta isn’t always “the best” and more often than not is hust a way for internet bullies and snobs like you to ostracize others.

Now, if people in a game that promotes unique builds and play styles decide to goose step to your Meta doctrine, that’s their choice. I’m just laying it out that there is a choice. That this Meta garbage is not the end all be all of the game.

You know, kinda like how you don’t have to be a slave to others opinions, but can live free and do as you like. :-)

there are certain mechanics in this game that make some classes subpar it is a fact that has been proven over and over by many players via math , videos and common sense

you coming on the forums saying your kittenty build is good and providing no evidence as to why it somehow defies the game mechanics is bullkitten

if you want to run a subpar build great go ahead be a scrub and try to leech of other players but don’t lie to everyone and say all builds and classes are equal , they aren’t

Bogy.2953:

if you want to run a subpar build great go ahead be a scrub and try to leech of other players

The build doesn’t make the player. I know you’re mostly trying to just get a rise out of him, but I thought I’d point that out, since many people think that copying a meta build from the internet puts them in some Society of Skilled Gamers.

Cogbyrn.7283:

The meta is often a very good reference for a new player to get a feel for what sort of cohesive builds exist in a game. Do you want to be a condi Necro? Here’s a few builds that people have run, and why. Do you want to run a Power Necro? Here are a few variations. It can be a very good starting point that you can piggy back on to create your own variation, or it can give you ideas and in general help you learn about the class.

However, I’m also irked by anyone who tries to play The Allmighty and stakes a claim on what should or should not be played, and how. My favorite is when they demonstrate they aren’t good at the game, but still try to tell you how to play.

The truth is that someone playing Zerker Meta in PvE could easily be a trash can who dies on every fight. Even, believe it or not, Condi Thieves or Backstab Thieves can roll the meta build and get trashed in PvP because they don’t know what the opponent can do.

As much as the meta can be a healthy starting point, it can also be a poisonous element to the community as well. The sheeple masses end up only being able to see or acknowledge the meta. They read about the meta, complain about what is imbalanced given the meta, only roll the meta, and preach the meta’s gospel blindly. That’s where all of my disappointment lies.

My first reaction to all of this Runes of Strength might-stacking business was: “Oh look, maybe it’s an opportunity for a boon stripping Necro to find its way into the meta, since the Necro forums have been alight with claims that Necros are useless currently.” What did I see on the forums?

“Nerf Runes of Strength”
“Might gives too much condition damage”
etc.

Within the bounds of the meta, Runes of Strength became a strong contender, and instead of trying to actually think about the game as a whole, those people who potentially tell others how to build/play based on the meta are trying to get the game balanced around the meta instead of letting it develop.

That was a long sentence, but the point remains.

At the end of the day, I use the meta as a reference point, whether it’s before or after I already created my build. If you want to be entertained, the next time someone tries to tell you how to play, just ask them “Why?”. I bet the majority of the time, the answer will be amusing.

I love this. I can agree that knowing the meta builds can be a good start to learning yhe game. I also warn against using the meta to define the game. I’m glad to see another kindred soul. Thank you for your post.

Going to concur with a lot of what’s been posted above:

The “meta” builds usually are the best in their designations, and OP claiming that his build is simply equally as effective on something played to death in attempts to make the entire class viable is highly unlikely.

That said, there may be something he knows the rest of us do not. Consequently, if he has nothing else to add, however, then the truth is he’s puffing his chest and touting an ego by claiming he’s simply better than everyone else.

Regarding the runes of strength thing, they really are overpowered based upon the situation. WvW players are almost totally against them due to the fact that all it does is further encourage the hammertrain warrior zerg meta by allowing it to even further overshadow other tactics, and their obscene effectiveness in this environment shuts out any other alternative. Consequently, these runes also shut down entire classes or weaponsets, such as the ranger longbow, for barrage now not only can cause a ranger to die from group retal, but it can now also give an entire zerg many stacks of might. The same applies to arrow cart tactics and the likes. In the sPvP and PvE environments, these runes aren’t changing too much to the point where a nerf could easily be justified and not affect much.

I never said I was better than everyone else. Better then a few, sure. But everyone? Not even on everyone elses worst day.

I have only said: New players should not take the “Meta” as gospel for how the game is played. It is not the end all be all. It will likely change a month from now. Play what and how you like. It’s just a game.

Have you tried running a fractal with a bunch of necros/bowbear rangers instead of warrior/guardian/elementalists/mesmers?… its a torture, even if the necros aren’t bad, it takes a million years to kill anything.

I would give you that engi while not being the best at least still offer something to the team but the other two classes especially necro are just downright useless in most situations. Rangers are a huge hit or miss depending on their build, a bowbear ranger in any dungeon or fractal would be instant kick if i had a say in it. Too many times where they use their knock back or their pets get in the way and not only that, they do like barely any damage and offer NOTHING to the team.

Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcgUwFU8IXs
-
Necromancer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5E9HLAmn4w
-
Engineer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7br1Sn5Tqjw
-
All three of those classes do well with the right build.

Lifestealer.4910:

Have you tried running a fractal with a bunch of necros/bowbear rangers instead of warrior/guardian/elementalists/mesmers?… its a torture, even if the necros aren’t bad, it takes a million years to kill anything.

As someone who has run fracs with 4 necros & 1 ranger(not bearbow). Going through dredge was one of the smoothest runs ever.

Was a quicker run than many pugs I’ve been in.

give me 4 power necros over eles who keep going down ANY day. And necros oover wars who think they know everything and are the only class worth playing.
_
you dont play a necro do you?

I do agree with you OP, play whatever profession you love and go hard into it. Getting that deep knowledge and experience eventually will get you where you want to be.

Taygus.4571:

Lifestealer.4910:

Have you tried running a fractal with a bunch of necros/bowbear rangers instead of warrior/guardian/elementalists/mesmers?… its a torture, even if the necros aren’t bad, it takes a million years to kill anything.

As someone who has run fracs with 4 necros & 1 ranger(not bearbow). Going through dredge was one of the smoothest runs ever.

Was a quicker run than many pugs I’ve been in.

give me 4 power necros over eles who keep going down ANY day. And necros oover wars who think they know everything and are the only class worth playing.
_
you dont play a necro do you?

no just no necros are crap , they have awful cleave dmng , they don’t have as many dmng amplifiers as ele they dont have the usefull utility that wars or thief have they are a sub par class

power necros when properly build are a better option them something awfull in pve like bearbow or condi builds but they are still subpar at best to say otherwise is just trolling or not getting game mechanics, srry scrub

Bogy.2953:

Taygus.4571:

Lifestealer.4910:

Have you tried running a fractal with a bunch of necros/bowbear rangers instead of warrior/guardian/elementalists/mesmers?… its a torture, even if the necros aren’t bad, it takes a million years to kill anything.

As someone who has run fracs with 4 necros & 1 ranger(not bearbow). Going through dredge was one of the smoothest runs ever.

Was a quicker run than many pugs I’ve been in.

give me 4 power necros over eles who keep going down ANY day. And necros oover wars who think they know everything and are the only class worth playing.
_
you dont play a necro do you?

no just no necros are crap , they have awful cleave dmng , they don’t have as many dmng amplifiers as ele they dont have the usefull utility that wars or thief have they are a sub par class

power necros when properly build are a better option them something awfull in pve like bearbow or condi builds but they are still subpar at best to say otherwise is just trolling or not getting game mechanics, srry scrub

Necromancer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5E9HLAmn4w

Jasher.6580:

Bogy.2953:

Taygus.4571:

Lifestealer.4910:

Have you tried running a fractal with a bunch of necros/bowbear rangers instead of warrior/guardian/elementalists/mesmers?… its a torture, even if the necros aren’t bad, it takes a million years to kill anything.

As someone who has run fracs with 4 necros & 1 ranger(not bearbow). Going through dredge was one of the smoothest runs ever.

Was a quicker run than many pugs I’ve been in.

give me 4 power necros over eles who keep going down ANY day. And necros oover wars who think they know everything and are the only class worth playing.
_
you dont play a necro do you?

no just no necros are crap , they have awful cleave dmng , they don’t have as many dmng amplifiers as ele they dont have the usefull utility that wars or thief have they are a sub par class

power necros when properly build are a better option them something awfull in pve like bearbow or condi builds but they are still subpar at best to say otherwise is just trolling or not getting game mechanics, srry scrub

Necromancer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5E9HLAmn4w

yes that is the best possible setup for a kittenty class , its still subpar when you compare it to what classes that are good at pve can do

Bogy.2953:

yes that is the best possible setup for a kittenty class , its still subpar when you compare it to what classes that are good at pve can do

Well, 7 of 8 classes are always going to be “subpar”, no matter what the devs do. However, the difference in most areas is minor enough to really not matter functionally.