Guild Wars 2

Wow AreaNet… just wow.

I feel like I wasted skill points purchasing this heal.

Did it get nerfed since the livestream? I haven’t touched it yet but when the developers demonstrated it they healed 16K in under a second by AoEing into a crowd.

Conncept.7638:

Did it get nerfed since the livestream? I haven’t touched it yet but when the developers demonstrated it they healed 16K in under a second by AoEing into a crowd.

Even if it healed for 100k during a crowd AoE… how practical is that generally?

Read the skill before buying?

Or were you expecting god mode for 378 seconds with a 14 second cooldown?

Pandeh.5248:

Read the skill before buying?

Or were you expecting god mode for 378 seconds with a 14 second cooldown?

Should I respond to this? Okay… I will. The heal skill isn’t practical. Let’s say you heal a lot during AoE situation… okay so what? How much healing do you generally need during team stacked AoE situations usually? So okay you have a lot of overhealing during AoEs… Everywhere else the heal sucks.

this heal is terribad for PvE, haven’t tested it on PvP situations yet.

still, even if it pulled good results it doesn’t fit with the guardian theme, the new heal warriors got, is way more fitting for a guardian and encourages agressive gameplay… guess i’ll stick with Healing signet

Jasher.6580:

Conncept.7638:

Did it get nerfed since the livestream? I haven’t touched it yet but when the developers demonstrated it they healed 16K in under a second by AoEing into a crowd.

Even if it healed for 100k during a crowd AoE… how practical is that generally?

In SPvP, as a control guardian or a bunker, pretty darn practical. Your job isn’t to get kills it is to stymie the enemy’s effort go get kills. If you die guaranteeing your four teammates an ace and a control point or two you have done your job excellently.

Conncept.7638:

Jasher.6580:

Conncept.7638:

Did it get nerfed since the livestream? I haven’t touched it yet but when the developers demonstrated it they healed 16K in under a second by AoEing into a crowd.

Even if it healed for 100k during a crowd AoE… how practical is that generally?

In SPvP, as a control guardian or a bunker, pretty darn practical. Your job isn’t to get kills it is to stymie the enemy’s effort go get kills. If you die guaranteeing your four teammates an ace and a control point or two you have done your job excellently.

So you’re saying that the heal is good in sPvP? Maybe if the point was riddled with minions… and that’s a big maybe. Bare in mind, you have to activate the heal to get the temporary effect…

Jasher.6580:

Conncept.7638:

Jasher.6580:

Conncept.7638:

Did it get nerfed since the livestream? I haven’t touched it yet but when the developers demonstrated it they healed 16K in under a second by AoEing into a crowd.

Even if it healed for 100k during a crowd AoE… how practical is that generally?

In SPvP, as a control guardian or a bunker, pretty darn practical. Your job isn’t to get kills it is to stymie the enemy’s effort go get kills. If you die guaranteeing your four teammates an ace and a control point or two you have done your job excellently.

So you’re saying that the heal is good in sPvP? Maybe if the point was riddled with minions… and that’s a big maybe. Bare in mind, you have to activate the heal to get the temporary effect…

I don’t see how that’s an unreasonable way of scaling it, if you are facing more opponents or in a larger fight, it does more healing because you are likely going to take more damage. That’s an advantage in my book. It’s far better for the guardian than it would be for most classes, considering the guardians multiple teleports and leap skills, some of which already end in AoE damage.

Please take a look at the new Necromancer skill. It’s a load of dog kitten.

Troll.4237:

Please take a look at the new Necromancer skill. It’s a load of dog kitten.

The worst healing skill among the new ones… Litany of wrath is far better than necro’s new skill.

It full heals me with Scepter Smite. It’s decent in PvP with the Meditation build I was already using~ so I get the heal bonus and only 24s CD. Problem is using it VS a ranged fighter who’s constantly trying to avoid you kitten s it out. In PvE you don’t have to worry about that so it’s a half HP heal+full heal from DMG.

I think this skill was specifically made for DPS Scepter builds. ;x

Umut.5471:

Troll.4237:

Please take a look at the new Necromancer skill. It’s a load of dog kitten.

The worst healing skill among the new ones… Litany of wrath is far better than necro’s new skill.

I think ranger spirit is on par with necro in terms of badness

Now that enough people have tested it in PvP, I think we can all agree that the skill is awful. And reducing the cast time will not make it any less awful.

It needs to be made instant to even be worth considering using in small scale pvp, wvw or pve with it’s huge downsides.

Not 3/4sec or 1/2 sec, no, it needs to be instant. Like all other meditations.

Conncept.7638:

Jasher.6580:

Conncept.7638:

Jasher.6580:

Conncept.7638:

Did it get nerfed since the livestream? I haven’t touched it yet but when the developers demonstrated it they healed 16K in under a second by AoEing into a crowd.

Even if it healed for 100k during a crowd AoE… how practical is that generally?

In SPvP, as a control guardian or a bunker, pretty darn practical. Your job isn’t to get kills it is to stymie the enemy’s effort go get kills. If you die guaranteeing your four teammates an ace and a control point or two you have done your job excellently.

So you’re saying that the heal is good in sPvP? Maybe if the point was riddled with minions… and that’s a big maybe. Bare in mind, you have to activate the heal to get the temporary effect…

I don’t see how that’s an unreasonable way of scaling it, if you are facing more opponents or in a larger fight, it does more healing because you are likely going to take more damage. That’s an advantage in my book. It’s far better for the guardian than it would be for most classes, considering the guardians multiple teleports and leap skills, some of which already end in AoE damage.

The heal is bad everywhere besides a wvw zerg. Its especially bad in pvp

clint.5681:

The heal is bad everywhere besides a wvw zerg. Its especially bad in pvp

What a compelling argument.

Rangersix.1754:

It needs to be made instant to even be worth considering using in small scale pvp, wvw or pve with it’s huge downsides.

Not 3/4sec or 1/2 sec, no, it needs to be instant. Like all other meditations.

This was brought up in chat during the livestream where they first previewed the skills, a developer wrote in chat that they would never add a healing skill immune to interrupt, as all instant cast skills are. Which makes absolutely no bleeding sense as we already have two; Mantra of Recovery is an instant cast like all mantras, and then there is the unholy sin against game design that is Healing Signet.

I can confirm it is too unreliable for PvP. Offensive guardians are rather squishy and really need to be able to count on the few heals and defenses they have to stay upright. This heal will let you down more often than not.

Conncept.7638:

This was brought up in chat during the livestream where they first previewed the skills, a developer wrote in chat that they would never add a healing skill immune to interrupt, as all instant cast skills are. Which makes absolutely no bleeding sense as we already have two; Mantra of Recovery is an instant cast like all mantras, and then there is the unholy sin against game design that is Healing Signet.

If they’re sticking to this way of thinking, then they simply need to redo the entire skill.

I tried it once in fotm49.
Got hit once, lucky to be alive I used litany.
Wooah, another attack incoming, better dodge or die.
Okay dodge done with, let’s get some damage and healing done.
Oh, the duration is almost finished.
Now I’m low hp and my heal is on cooldown. Sweet.

Unequip litany, regret wasting skill points.

Casting time should be near instant, for this one, as Shelter protects you as soon as you cast it.

how is it bad, it has base heal, if you wear Clerics Trinkets at least and trait 20 points in Healing tree you get 2.5k base heal + you SHOULD trait it for Meditations Heal in grandmaster for Toughness tree and it will have base heal of around 4k If you deal damage you get even more healing – WHAT IS BAD IN THAT

g e o.2589:

how is it bad, it has base heal, if you wear Clerics Trinkets at least and trait 20 points in Healing tree you get 2.5k base heal + you SHOULD trait it for Meditations Heal in grandmaster for Toughness tree and it will have base heal of around 4k If you deal damage you get even more healing – WHAT IS BAD IN THAT

lol

Chris RJ.1843:

g e o.2589:

how is it bad, it has base heal, if you wear Clerics Trinkets at least and trait 20 points in Healing tree you get 2.5k base heal + you SHOULD trait it for Meditations Heal in grandmaster for Toughness tree and it will have base heal of around 4k If you deal damage you get even more healing – WHAT IS BAD IN THAT

lol

lol?

It’s kind of like the Defiance Stance for the warrior, can be useful in big WvW zerg fights if you time it right. It’s high risk high reward and very situational.

It’s perfect for when you hug walls in dungeons.

Your supposed to use it with meditation builds that use the heal trait. I like it personally but thought it was too slow to cast but they’re fixing that a bit.

I also wouldn’t mind if they added aoe dmg to it to match other 2 meditations. :P

The new heal I hate is stupid heal venom for Thief. it broke my heart.

^ TOP LEL WHAT. The venom heal for Thief is good if you play support.

The skill is horrible, both in PvP and PvE.
I rather use Shelter in PvP, and Heal Signet in PvE.

Zoid.2568:

^ TOP LEL WHAT. The venom heal for Thief is good if you play support.

Venoms are hurrdurr.

Disagree that it’s bad. It’s not going to work in every build or every situation, more so than the rest (except SoR which is generally always useful). Shelter is wasted if you don’t block damage. HBreeze is wasted if you don’t heal your allies. The only difference is that LoW is harder to use than all of those, but that is offset by its (traited) low CD.

personally I love this healing skill, but I run a dps/heal hybrid with a symbol focus. while it doesn’t heal as reliably as the signet (nothing does,) it is a more exciting skill to use and has the potential to heal for an incredible amount in the right situations. Unless I know I’m going to be just fighting one mob for a long time, this is my go-to heal skill now.

dace.8019:

Disagree that it’s bad. It’s not going to work in every build or every situation, more so than the rest (except SoR which is generally always useful). Shelter is wasted if you don’t block damage. HBreeze is wasted if you don’t heal your allies. The only difference is that LoW is harder to use than all of those, but that is offset by its (traited) low CD.

That is not the only difference. For the heal to be effective you need to perform a second action. All the other heals guardians posses require only one action. This is the main problem with the heal. First it requires you to cast the spell and then it requires you to perform an action. I think everyone can at least agree that to be effective, the second part or effect of the skill needs to be utilized.

When you cast the spell, you are in need of healing since it does not mitigate damage or convert damage you receive into healing. To elaborate on that, it means you want to avoid standing in harms way during this casting time to avoid other damage because… you are in need of healing. However, this skill requires you to also move back into combat, which isn’t always easy and always makes you waste some time of its limited window of effect (both of the buff and when it is opportune to use).

The other options are to stand in harms way on the critical moment when you require healing, which almost always is a bad idea, and pre-casting it before leaping into combat, which is akin to playing to lottery and predicting the future. (It’s an active skill not a reactive skill)

If you’d ask me for possible suggestion on tweaking it, I’d say the casting time needs to be drastically lowered. Without changing the rest of the skill, removing the casting time entirely, making it fall in line with the rest of the other meditation skills, would possibly fix most of the downsides of this heal. You get healing when you demand it.

Another alternative to me, would be to drastically increase the duration of it’s healing window. Lower the amount it heals to 10% instead of 20%, but increase the buff to 10 or 12 seconds instead of 6. I’d still advocate a reduction in casting time, since 1 second is far too long in a melee brawl, but I think it would elevate a lot of the current problems because you get more time to start hitting stuff again.

Rangersix.1754:

All the other heals guardians posses require only one action. This is the main problem with the heal.

I would argue that makes the skill interesting. The risk factor is compelling. With traits, it shines. The emphasis on a more considered decision on when to heal is a double edged sword. LoW’s potential can’t be overstated and neither can its pitfalls. I do agree that without traits the skill becomes alot less attractive.

A shorter cast time is promised, but it looks like a small reduction (to 0.75s, though a 0.5s was also mentioned as being tested). That’ll help. Instant cast in the manner of other meditations would make it too powerful. I wanted that too, initially, but an instant heal that doesn’t interrupt the flow of damage you’re inflicting would probably result in the skill being nerfed in other ways (such as a nerf to the heal conversion rate). That might not be such a bad thing because it would play up to its primary strength and idea: that doing damage heals you.

This heal is terrible when compared to the heals that many of the professions have. I have a warrior, guardian, ele, necro, and Engi. This heal doesn’t come close to Shelter, Healing Signet, Ether Renewal, or Elixir H/Healing kit.

Lets see first what the skil ldoes exactly, herex the description:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Litany_of_Wrath

Heal yourself. For a brief time, heal yourself based on a percentage of damage dealt to enemies.

Note: The 20% healing from outgoing damage also applies to outgoing damage from conditions and retaliation. – < very important note in my opinion.

Means, every ticking condition damage and reflected damage from retaliation heals you for 20% of its damage per second.

Weak Initial Heal, 6 Seconds of Duration and very situational additional heal for those 6 seconds, which can be very powerful, if the SKil lgets timed at the right moment, where you either can deal in short time alot of AoE Damage to as many targets as possiblle and if done with this, you deal best likely also as many damaging conditions as possible to your foes.
Problem is, the Guardian has not very much damaging conditions, mostly only Burning and Retaliation as a Boon

They have no Bleeding, no Poison, no Confusion, no Torment. So they have to rely themself only onto these 2 additional Damage Sources to increase the maximum Healing that is possible to receive within those lousy 6 seconds for a recharge time of 30 seconds, which can be reduced with the Meditation Trait down to 24 seconds (20% lesser Recharge Time)

I think the biggest problem with this Skill compared to the otherHealing Skills is, that LoW is way too much situational

The Skill should work this way:

Cast Time: Instant
Duration: 10 Seconds
Recharge: 25 Seconds
Initial Heal: 20% of a Characters maximum Health (20k Health? So you get 4k healed when you enter the Symbol)
Heals per Damage dealt: 15% from direct Damage Hits, 30% from Condition Damage Ticks & Retaliation
Type: Symbol
Stun Breaker

Renamed to: “Symbol of Relief”

Effect: An AoE Ground Target Symbol that Heals you and your allies once when entering it and cures also 1 condition. After the initial Heal, the Symbol will stay for 10 seconds. While standing in that Symbol, all your.
If an Enemy enters the Symbol, they will lose Boons per Tick and they will start to Burn per second/tick.

This way will become this Healing Skill a much better Support Skill, that will also help the Group.
So make this Skill still work also under water, it will just slightly change its mechanic into a kind of Aura that will be around you with that you can move around, giving the skill there a bit more mobility with an the name “Radiance of Delight” which could have maybe there for the part of the mobility a slightly lesser duration and longer recharge time with maybe also little different calculators for the numbers

The moment when I saw the skill the first time and learned that it will be a silly Meditation skill, I directly was like olny /meh … Symbols are so much more iconic to Guardians especially around their more group supportive gameplay, where Meditations are just selfish skisl that affect only the guardian self …

Shelter is the Healign SKill imo, which should be turned into a Meditation Skill, if Anets wants to have a Healign Skill that counts as Meditation…
In my humble opinion, the game owuld be anyways better if all Healing Skilsl of all Classes would fall also under Skill Types, so that players can affect their effectiveness with fitting Traits, and be it just only the 20% decrease effect for recharge time reductions

Conncept.7638:

This was brought up in chat during the livestream where they first previewed the skills, a developer wrote in chat that they would never add a healing skill immune to interrupt, as all instant cast skills are. Which makes absolutely no bleeding sense as we already have two; Mantra of Recovery is an instant cast like all mantras, and then there is the unholy sin against game design that is Healing Signet.

This makes me so angry.

in order to heal for similar amounts as the signet you need to do around 35,000 damage over the next 6 seconds…
35,000 damage in 6 seconds. just think about that for a moment…

horrible horrible skill that had so much potential.

Yes, it is bad. I wouldn’t consider using it unless it was instant, combined with Judge’s Wrath and Monk’s it “might” be useful on a mediation build. But intruth I wouldn’t expect much from it. Guardian’s have gotten little in the way of positive improvement since we were considered OP during the beta…..maybe someday….

g e o.2589:

Chris RJ.1843:

g e o.2589:

how is it bad, it has base heal, if you wear Clerics Trinkets at least and trait 20 points in Healing tree you get 2.5k base heal + you SHOULD trait it for Meditations Heal in grandmaster for Toughness tree and it will have base heal of around 4k If you deal damage you get even more healing – WHAT IS BAD IN THAT

lol

lol?

lol

I didn’t know there is some other heal than healing signet :O

Conncept.7638:

then there is the unholy sin against game design that is Healing Signet.

Healing signet has 1 1/4 cast time. You have no idea what you are talking about.

runeblade.7514:

Conncept.7638:

then there is the unholy sin against game design that is Healing Signet.

Healing signet has 1 1/4 cast time. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Leaving the signet on passive far outstrips using the active is what he was probably going for, which is quite true. You cannot stop the much better HoT of the passive.

Ghotistyx.6942:

runeblade.7514:

Conncept.7638:

then there is the unholy sin against game design that is Healing Signet.

Healing signet has 1 1/4 cast time. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Leaving the signet on passive far outstrips using the active is what he was probably going for, which is quite true. You cannot stop the much better HoT of the passive.

Then it doesn’t count. It is a passive not a active.

Psst. Elementalist water attunement Soothing Mist is also unstoppable.

runeblade.7514:

Then it doesn’t count. It is a passive not a active.

Care to explain how that negates the fact of uninterruptable healing?

Rangersix.1754:

runeblade.7514:

Then it doesn’t count. It is a passive not a active.

Care to explain how that negates the fact of uninterruptable healing?

Because if I’m going to be bursted down within 3 seconds at least I don’t want my 3×425 heal tick to be interrupted?

Active and passive healing. Apples and oranges.

Working as intended: Anet needed to rush the healing skills out so that they could say they fulfilled the promise of “new skills in 2013.” But the danger in rushing out skills is that they might end up OP. They ensured that wouldn’t happen by making sure all of them were terrible.

Reminds me how racial skills are still bad even more than a year after the release.