Guild Wars 2

I don’t know this post is supposed to be ironical or serious?
and are you drunk btw ?

Lifestealer.4910:

Its funny that people think 1v1’s don’t occur often in competitive pvp.

1v1s occur often in competitive soccer. Does it mean everything should be balanced around 1v1 in soccer?

ukuni.8745:

game may not be balanced around 1v1 but they didn’t buff it effectively for anything other then 1v1.

They buffed a specific weapon which fits a specific playstyle. That’s more of increasing build diversity within a specific playstyle rather than buffing a specific playstyle. As for increasing playstyle diversity, I agree more things could’ve been done; but at least AoE mantras and phantasm distortion did something for WvW zerging, as well as Mind Stab buff that added just a bit more of AoE which we lack and which could be used to solve our tagging problems.

Zord.6130:

They should buff things that make the game more enjoyable.

Like what? Healing signet? Cleansing ire? Larger distance finishers for warriors?

Ironically, all the buffs mesmer got were things that would make mesmer’s life a bit more enjoyable. We suffered from lack of AoE, from iLeap pathing issues, from lackluster Scepter, from iWarden bugs, from illusions (our class mechanic) dying instantly in zergs, from Elasticity not applying to illusions. These things will are planned to be partially fixed.

In short, very simply, PU was indirectly buffed because frankly it’s not a strong spec in any supported combat format.

Yes it’s strong in 1v1 Duelling, but the 1v1 Duelling queue is kinda… inexistent.

musu.9205:

when power block came out where you guys "anet u should encourage skillful play "?Instead you were crying for interruption (its passive play like war i guess lol)
And now this.
@Sagat.3285
play mesmer and learn how the DD actually works

@nearlight.3064
I’m pretty I can’t beat anyone from TCG ,and it won’t prove that their classes are op . There is one thing called logic.

I am used to playing DD mesmer lol. What I am tryingto say is that is VERY unlikely that PU will change because it fits it’s trait line, the angry should either adapt their tactic,focused on an other aspect of mesmer or improvement of their classes.

Keeping in mind that mesmer is 1v1 class and the game is based on 5v5.

I don’t get where all the “PU got buffed” hysteria is comming from after the most recent Ready Up. The change to the Scepter AA doesn’t really help condi PU builds. But let’s have a look at the change in general.

• Adding a damaging condition to an AA is critical. However, Torment is the weakest option besides Bleed. Bleed would have been stronger because it would have meant an additional damaging condition on the Scepter. Torment is the most sensible choice. As a whole, the Mesmer AA will remain a lot weaker than the Necro AA.
• Scepter clones most likely won’t be stronger than Staff clones. Actually, Staff clones probably will be the bigger issue if iElasticity is fixed. And even then I’m not sure they will become “a thing”.
• Multi-hit phantasms with Sharper Images will remain stronger for condition builds than any clone available. Period.

How does this change affect condi PU builds? It most certainly is no direct buff. The reason is pretty simple. Constantly respawning Scepter clones will require a frequent use of the Scepter AA. And guess what: you won’t be able to use stealth in this case. You will have to sacrifice your defense – namely stealth – to gain offense which indirectly reduces the efficiency of PU. ANet did a reasonable change here by promoting non-stealth gameplay for condi Mesmers. I would really appretiate an end of all this inappropriate PU whining. The Scepter change is not a condi PU change.

Carighan.6758:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have?

Eh, right now every somewhat useful Mesmer plays a variant of power setups. I reckon their data will even show that Scepter goes virtually unused as a weapon.

Why do you think they’d buffing condition setups? Just for the lulz?
Probably because if you get off your high horse of as character built to be vulnerable to conditions but not to power attacks, you’ll realize that condition builds are really weak.

I know you’re not a small-man player, but condition builds rule the day in solo and many times in 1vX situations.

They’re not weak by any stretch of the imagination. And for ANet to achieve any semblance of balance, yes balancing for 1v1 is a concern.

zaxon.6819:

the crazy thing is… warriors complaining about mesmers.. mind blowing. learn to play

Hop on another class I will hop on a mesmer and wreck you hard.

Sethren.8472:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

What cracks me up is how you PvP’ers think the game revolves around you. Mesmer has one spec that you can’t face roll, and you all start crying. Ever hear of a cleanse? Know how to use that skill? No, instead of thinking up a strategy to counter, you all start whining. The mesmer finally gets a buff, and the sky is falling.

Did you ever think that Condition Mesmer in PvE might need a buff, and this scepter change was much needed, so they can actually kill something? Sure, it’s doable now, but it takes forever. Did you ever think that your incessant whining about mesmer a is the reason Mesmers are nothing more than a support portal-bot in PvE? No, you don’t because all you care about is yourself.

There is literally no class in game that will be able to cleanse the amount of condi’s put on this by this new. Shame on you, you even play a mesmer, and you are promoting players to play what will end up being, literally, the easier spec in game. I guarantee you that within 1 day of playing mesmer I could beat 90% of the community with the new PU lol.

You have extremely high access to every condition. Especially bleeds and torment. The bound trait getting buff, buffs staff condis a ton. The scepter auto attack with clones inflicting torment auto attack is awful. Those two alone literally only rely on you to press one to win because of how quickly you’ll stack bleeds/burning/torment on the enemy. Thats awful.

There’s no such thing as an official game mode. Freaking trolls thinking they have reasoning for illogic. Just shows you’re as crazy as they are.

1v1 is AS legitimate as zerging and all other game forms.

PvP isn’t the only thing that exists.

Also, they weren’t aiming to buff PU. They were aiming to buff shatter. It just isn’t the right set of buffs.

0/10. This is an awfully wrong and presumptuous post.

[/quote]

There is literally no class in game that will be able to cleanse the amount of condi’s put on this by this new. Shame on you, you even play a mesmer, and you are promoting players to play what will end up being, literally, the easier spec in game. I guarantee you that within 1 day of playing mesmer I could beat 90% of the community with the new PU lol.

You have extremely high access to every condition. Especially bleeds and torment. The bound trait getting buff, buffs staff condis a ton. The scepter auto attack with clones inflicting torment auto attack is awful. Those two alone literally only rely on you to press one to win because of how quickly you’ll stack bleeds/burning/torment on the enemy. Thats awful. [/quote]

A pew pew ranger won’t even get touched….and guess who else and why…
A condition necro will own you…and guess who else and why

Mesmer is still a 1v1 class in 5v5 game I don’t see how this change improve team play.

not sure why so many psychic tears are shed. play the actual buff before you start crying about it and stop being such a drama queen with so little info.

play the actualy patch before you start crying about things.. stop trying to guess that you know things you do not.. it may not have that much of an impact. im not sure how people jump so quickly to tears before play testing.. this is why we need a test server.. so you can get all your tears out early.. and get over it.

zaxon.6819:

play the actualy patch before you start crying about things.. stop trying to guess that you know things you do not.. it may not have that much of an impact. im not sure how people jump so quickly to tears before play testing.. this is why we need a test server.. so you can get all your tears out early.. and get over it.

Lol

With the frequency of Balance Patches (one every 6 months), all we’re trying to do is preventing a toxic, unnecessary and brainless change to pass through.

The devs want to hear our feedback.
If this wasn’t the case, mesmers would still be complaining about Deceptive Evasion not generating more clones after the third one.

Think before posting, lad.

Zord.6130:

zaxon.6819:

play the actualy patch before you start crying about things.. stop trying to guess that you know things you do not.. it may not have that much of an impact. im not sure how people jump so quickly to tears before play testing.. this is why we need a test server.. so you can get all your tears out early.. and get over it.

Lol

With the frequency of Balance Patches (one every 6 months), all we’re trying to do is preventing a toxic, unnecessary and brainless change to pass through.

The devs want to hear our feedback.
If this wasn’t the case, mesmers would still be complaining about Deceptive Evasion not generating more clones after the third one.

Think before posting, lad.

^ The reason why people don’t want to wait for the patch. No one is going to want to deal with this obviously bad and unneeded decision for the next 6 months aka half a year. Better to try and prevent it from being implemented, rather then trying it and if it was a bad decision, being stuck with it until next balance patch time. In that span of time that’s all you’re going to see being played as far as WvW roaming goes and 1vX’s.

zaxon.6819:

not sure why so many psychic tears are shed. play the actual buff before you start crying about it and stop being such a drama queen with so little info.

Play the buff and see how bad of a decision it is and and get stuck with it for 6 months. It’s silly because scepter didn’t really need it, nor does it throw this up into Competitive play.

The pew pew spirit ranger got nerfed considerably:

-Sun Spirit burning proc from 3s to 2s
-Storm Spirit strike damage reduced by 33%
-Spirits can be knocked back
-Natural vigor reduced from 50% bonus to 25%
-Emhpatic bond no longer works when the pet is dead.

I think this about covers it lol. Necro got a lot of shaves to innate condition spam and Dhuumfire got nuked.

As long as the torment on the scepter isn’t too long, I think it might be ok. The stuff they showed in the skill bar segment looked like the durations were a bit high.

Although I predict this will make a situation where mesmers will deliberately cancel their ether clone attack so they can restart the chain and get back to applying more torment.

Lucentfir.7430:

Zord.6130:

zaxon.6819:

play the actualy patch before you start crying about things.. stop trying to guess that you know things you do not.. it may not have that much of an impact. im not sure how people jump so quickly to tears before play testing.. this is why we need a test server.. so you can get all your tears out early.. and get over it.

Lol

With the frequency of Balance Patches (one every 6 months), all we’re trying to do is preventing a toxic, unnecessary and brainless change to pass through.

The devs want to hear our feedback.
If this wasn’t the case, mesmers would still be complaining about Deceptive Evasion not generating more clones after the third one.

Think before posting, lad.

^ The reason why people don’t want to wait for the patch. No one is going to want to deal with this obviously bad and unneeded decision for the next 6 months aka half a year. Better to try and prevent it from being implemented, rather then trying it and if it was a bad decision, being stuck with it until next balance patch time. In that span of time that’s all you’re going to see being played as far as WvW roaming goes and 1vX’s.

This x100 the pu blackwater condi mesmer is so face roll its disgusting. Its saving grace is that it has limited active burst. Giving it torment on scepter AA is making this build god mode.

blackwater is trash. and will be after the patch. you guys must lose alot of fights to care this much about the change. i run 0 condi cleans kittenter and i still could care less about this change.

Sethren.8472:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

What cracks me up is how you PvP’ers think the game revolves around you. Mesmer has one spec that you can’t face roll, and you all start crying. Ever hear of a cleanse? Know how to use that skill? No, instead of thinking up a strategy to counter, you all start whining. The mesmer finally gets a buff, and the sky is falling.

Did you ever think that Condition Mesmer in PvE might need a buff, and this scepter change was much needed, so they can actually kill something? Sure, it’s doable now, but it takes forever. Did you ever think that your incessant whining about mesmer a is the reason Mesmers are nothing more than a support portal-bot in PvE? No, you don’t because all you care about is yourself.

It’s just yet another argument after splitting PvE and PvP/WvWvW.

There was a reason why skills were always being splitted in Guild Wars.

In current game, it can only go in two ways: Either half of skills will suck in one half of the game and rule in another or we just split them and make everything viable everywhere.

I just dont agree with ILeap and the torment on autoattack.
At least give players the possibility to see and avoid ILeap and revert the changes on scepter auto attack.

The other changes were neeed imo.

What they missed was the nerf on DE. (at least a CD is necessary).

phirefox.2568:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.

these arguments are so bad.

But sure and now place it on my GS so i can have a 100% 100b all the time just like you can with blurred frenzy

Mesmer Sword has the second-weakest Sword AA in the Game (Powerwise), and if you actually take the Warrior’s Sword’s bleeding application (even on builds with 0 conditiondamage) in mind, it may become the actual weakest Sword AA in the Game.

Blurred fency has a damage-coeffcient of (2.4). In Comparison, the Warrior’s Greatsword has (5.5) on 100b, (2.8) on Whirlwind Attack, (1.7) on Rush and and (1.5) on Blade Trail ( giving the blade hits two times); Arcing Slice (although never really used) has a modifier of (1.3). 100blades alone outdamages Blurred Fency by far , and if you forced your opponent to dodge twice (which isn’t hard as warrior, giving the sheer amount of hard-hitting attacks), and used 100b mid-melee range, you would have already outdamaged Blurred Fency by the time your opponent got out of your attacking-cone – And you don’t even have to use inmob for that. In case you actually inmobilize your foe, a full Blurred Fency will not even down Soft Targets in one Swoop – but 100blades certainly does.

Just a side note:

When you compare hundred blades damage against blurred frenzy you forget some things.

1) Usually Blurred Frenzy will be helped with shatter damage as well (The combo usually is not only BF alone). That is one hability some classes have to use diferent damage skills at the same time.

2) Blurred Frenzy evades attacks.

So there are advantages and disadvantages with each weapon set.

What is with the pve kitten s whining about pvpers outrage. Its condi unless they totally change the way large fights happen in pve condi will always be meh. Adding torment when most players do their best to stack all monsters and keep them from moving at all will not change condis uselessness in pve.

And in wvw and spvp it takes a spec that was a pain to handle in the hands of a poor player, and completely unbeatable in the hands of a good player and allows it to spam and extremely potent condition. If they did the same thing but made it a bleed or poison it wouldn’t be to bad but torment damage stacks up stupidly fast. For example my condi warrior with 1665 condi damage (which is rather low) can maintain 5 stacks of torment on a target with 100% up time dealing 1000 per tick. Between AA clone AA the block and the clone death trait Mesmer will be able to keep 8-10 stacks on you at all times without even trying.

Personally if the devs don’t manage to see the err of their was and change this, I plan to level my Mesmer and play the most toxic pu condi Mesmer build I can make until enough whine is generated for the devs to finally wake up and smell the hummus.

i am maining a mesmer and i really have to say pu isnt op at all . all that qqing about a trait thats not op . so ridiculous .

before u will are going to say : ‘’ oh look another pu noob ’’ then i have to dissapoint u i play only shatter .

and come to think of it, what builds do we mesmers have left ? PU and shatter, since almost nobody plays condishatter or phantasm builds anymore

Lishtenbird.2814:

1v1s occur often in competitive soccer. Does it mean everything should be balanced around 1v1 in soccer?

This is such a terrible analogy. I don’t even know what to say.

musu.9205:

when power block came out where you guys "anet u should encourage skillful play "?Instead you were crying for interruption (its passive play like war i guess lol)
And now this.
@Sagat.3285
play mesmer and learn how the DD actually works

@nearlight.3064
I’m pretty I can’t beat anyone from TCG ,and it won’t prove that their classes are op . There is one thing called logic.

http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699

Just listen to what he has to say. His opinion on pvp in this game actually counts for something.

nicknamenick.2437:

there is no counter to ileap now.. how do you see that when a clones spawns in your FACE!! and boom..

Damage buff for GS.. why? wassnt it already strong?

But most of all..

AA torment!?!?? what??!?!??!?!?!?!?! are you sick ANET???

Warrior tears are the most delicious! Yum!

BurrTheKing.8571:

Most of the changes seem fine but that torment on the scepter AA seems like a horrid idea. There’s a reason why there’s so few ways to apply the condition, it’s really kitten strong. The iLeap seems like a skill that just needed fixing because now it looks like it might almost be unavoidable.

I have to agree. For the most part, the changes do indeed appear solid. It seems to be a fairly unanimous idea in the community as a whole that the scepter auto attack changes are too much of a bad thing.

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How on earth is the scepter no skill? There is no group of three skills in the ENTIRE GAME that are more telegraphed. If you can’t avoid them, it’s your lack of skill.

Mbelch.9028:

I know you’re not a small-man player, but condition builds rule the day in solo and many times in 1vX situations.

True, but the game doesn’t support 1-versus combat. Which makes sense, given the genre. Yes it can happen, but it’s a situation you absolutely want to avoid if anyhow possible.

Coupled with just how slow PU is in killing, and its problems with on-point combat (the only situation where you can really be forced into 1vX combat and don’t want to avoid it), and I really don’t see the spec as strong.
Any situation where it could be useful you don’t want to fight 1v1. A very large part of the PvP players still wants to, and that’s why PU (or rather, Blackwater) can be so strong, as it punishes 1v1-centric setups.

Carighan.6758:

Mbelch.9028:

I know you’re not a small-man player, but condition builds rule the day in solo and many times in 1vX situations.

True, but the game doesn’t support 1-versus combat. Which makes sense, given the genre. Yes it can happen, but it’s a situation you absolutely want to avoid if anyhow possible.

Coupled with just how slow PU is in killing, and its problems with on-point combat (the only situation where you can really be forced into 1vX combat and don’t want to avoid it), and I really don’t see the spec as strong.
Any situation where it could be useful you don’t want to fight 1v1. A very large part of the PvP players still wants to, and that’s why PU (or rather, Blackwater) can be so strong, as it punishes 1v1-centric setups.

Yeah what you’re saying is super true about PvP. Good points.

But 1v1 dueling is a very real scene in GW2. There’s literally hundreds of people I know who do it. I could honestly list them. There’s probably as many as there are serious NA PvPers. And to be quite honest, more money has been won in 1v1 tourines/duels than ever will be won in competitive PvP (Okay minus the 50,000 rewards. Crazy, right?!)

I personally facilitated a betting server and in less than 48 hours I averaged turning over 10,000 gold (winnings). That was for every 48 hours, not just a peak.

I’m just making the point that there are ways to buff Zerg specs, PvP specs and not buff already overpowered 1v1 specs.

Wouldn’t you agree? I just don’t think they’re putting the work into investigating and fleshing it out with players.

Also- just a little note, the game supports 1vX, the X just needs to be less knowledgable than you. I know I do 2v5+ on a daily basis. And as an ele I do 1v3 at the most, but 1v4 is a bit hard.

No, torment on scepter WAS necessary.

Let’s face it, scepter was an absolutely worthless backup weapon you used when you weren’t using your staff or mainhand sword.

In every way mesmer scepter was an underpowered necro scepter. The autoatttack does pitiful damage and is a power based autoattack on a condition weapon.

When I played PU my main conditions came from sharpened images duelist and staff clones. The scepter was just there to track thieves in stealth and a block but that was pretty much it.

Even now scepter will be kind of useless in AoE situations, which is what mesmer will continue to suffer in kittenters (really, stupid filter? now the mesmer mechanic is a bad word?) were not improved and clones in pve/wvw already die instantly.

Mesmer will still be a dueling class/ portal veil kitten while necros and eles and warriors and guardians continue to be the premier group play classes.

And boohoo about mesmer as a dueling class, PU has no chasing potential at all unlike a thief or warrior so if anyone wants to run from you when they’re losing to you, they absolutely can. Thief and warrior are just as good dueling classes, while ranger and mesmer are slow roamers which means once anyone intereferes with the duel you get zerged to death unlike the thief who black powders away or the warrior who leap/rushes to the other side of the map.

Conncept.7638:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How on earth is the scepter no skill? There is no group of three skills in the ENTIRE GAME that are more telegraphed. If you can’t avoid them, it’s your lack of skill.

You can avoid them, but for how long? Those same three skills can be repeated endlessly (as with any auto-attack).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Conncept.7638:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How on earth is the scepter no skill? There is no group of three skills in the ENTIRE GAME that are more telegraphed. If you can’t avoid them, it’s your lack of skill.

You can avoid them, but for how long? Those same three skills can be repeated endlessly (as with any auto-attack).

Any time spent on scepter even with torment is a damage loss compared to the net condition damage of camping staff autoattack with staff clones.

Scepter autoattack is an opportunity cost. You trade high bleed stacks and burning for relying on the bleed stacks of iduelist which is easy to dodge unlike multiple staff clone attacks and burning from staff which is a far, far superior condition to torment.

And staff bounces between targets and gives boons on top while scepter is purely single target.

As an auto-attack condition, I’d say Burning is inferior to Torment. Why? Because Torment can stack. There’s no possibility of your clones actually lowering your damage output by all applying burning (and then reapplying before it expires). Constantly renewing burning before it expires actually reduces the damage you deal. Plus, it only takes 4 stacks of Torment to out-damage burning against a moving target (and players will always be moving). Which, by the way, Scepter will easily be able to provide with no condition duration.

Like people kept mentioning over and over scepter was used for clone generation not the conditions themselves even if you trigger the block you can evade right after that and not get the torment stacks if you are in 1v1 situation I refuse to believe Confusion Images fully hit you because there is not much to dodge when fighting condition mesmer. Only good thing about it was you could have an off-hand to help you out but staff was better without that off-hand.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Conncept.7638:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

How on earth is the scepter no skill? There is no group of three skills in the ENTIRE GAME that are more telegraphed. If you can’t avoid them, it’s your lack of skill.

You can avoid them, but for how long? Those same three skills can be repeated endlessly (as with any auto-attack).

Don’t avoid the torment, avoid the clone generation, it has to hit to make a clone. You prevent far more torment, and would have to be absolutely terrible not to be able to take a mesmer without any clones out for more then ten seconds.

If they have Decoy, Mirror images, and Deceptive Evasion, and a torch you’re probably screwed, or at the very least they are going to get away. Frankly, that’s true of any mesmer build no matter the weapon, and the scepter does not need to be kept perpetually weakened because of that screwup. Fix what’s broken, not what’s easiest.

Still, I don’t think torment on the auto-attack is a great idea, but the scepter needs something, since the day it lost confusion it has both thematically and mechanically defied every other weapon the class has. The clones need to do something that makes them worth more than shadder fodder, and a frustrating fight against Anets crapshoot targeting. And it needs regular and reliable application of some kind of condition.

i think a good way of fixing the scepter auto attack is to do the mesmer thing to it.. have it do a random condition on attack. that way it has a chance of keeping up something good and a chance of just laying a cover condi.. anything you do on auto attack that 3 clones can also cast will be strong or crap.. but giving a mix of 3 things will mean that you will most likely keep 1 of them up if you have 3 clones out.. and you will have a semi usefull condi if you roll the dice bad.

the second hit of the aa can still be torment.. since it will only be on the caster not the clone.

i think random condis on the first hit of aa is an ok answer that will not leave the scepter op.. even if torment is one of those condis.. it will not be 100 percent up time cast by 3 clones.

the other random condis would be the question.. chill and weakness? not sure.. it would need to be done in a way that does not give 100 percent chance of keeping op condis on target.

Mbelch.9028:

Carighan.6758:

Mbelch.9028:

I know you’re not a small-man player, but condition builds rule the day in solo and many times in 1vX situations.

True, but the game doesn’t support 1-versus combat. Which makes sense, given the genre. Yes it can happen, but it’s a situation you absolutely want to avoid if anyhow possible.

Coupled with just how slow PU is in killing, and its problems with on-point combat (the only situation where you can really be forced into 1vX combat and don’t want to avoid it), and I really don’t see the spec as strong.
Any situation where it could be useful you don’t want to fight 1v1. A very large part of the PvP players still wants to, and that’s why PU (or rather, Blackwater) can be so strong, as it punishes 1v1-centric setups.

Yeah what you’re saying is super true about PvP. Good points.

But 1v1 dueling is a very real scene in GW2. There’s literally hundreds of people I know who do it. I could honestly list them. There’s probably as many as there are serious NA PvPers. And to be quite honest, more money has been won in 1v1 tourines/duels than ever will be won in competitive PvP (Okay minus the 50,000 rewards. Crazy, right?!)

I personally facilitated a betting server and in less than 48 hours I averaged turning over 10,000 gold (winnings). That was for every 48 hours, not just a peak.

I’m just making the point that there are ways to buff Zerg specs, PvP specs and not buff already overpowered 1v1 specs.

Wouldn’t you agree? I just don’t think they’re putting the work into investigating and fleshing it out with players.

Are betting duel servers even considered allowed in this game? I’venever heard of them before :o

yes better duel servers are allowed.. but for the most part they dont let cancer duel. no pu turret engies minion mancer blah blah.

zaxon.6819:

yes better duel servers are allowed.. but for the most part they dont let cancer duel. no pu turret engies minion mancer blah blah.

Yet D/P cancer is totally fine. As if cheesing BP>HS or hammer stunlock isn’t just as stupid. But power specs have always liked to pretend they take any more skill, while thief and warrior power specs are prolific and completely wipe out all other power specs in the game.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

As an auto-attack condition, I’d say Burning is inferior to Torment. Why? Because Torment can stack. There’s no possibility of your clones actually lowering your damage output by all applying burning (and then reapplying before it expires). Constantly renewing burning before it expires actually reduces the damage you deal. Plus, it only takes 4 stacks of Torment to out-damage burning against a moving target (and players will always be moving). Which, by the way, Scepter will easily be able to provide with no condition duration.

Not really, with the amount of cleansing in this game reapplying burning is not only useful, but steady damage. It’s harder to sustain 4 stacks of torment on something like an ele or warrior than simply reapplying burning and getting the beefed up damage up front.

The staff gets a crapton more cover conditions. With 2 staff clones up and an iduelist out my opponent is covered in conditions most of the time while im bathing in boons from winds of chaos and if I get pressured too much i simply lay down a chaos storm.

And on top of that it’s all aoe.

For offensive capability there’s no question staff will still be superior. Nothing will change the fact that the escepter is a backup weapon for when your staff skills are on cd and you want to switch to use iduelist or the pistol stun or to track a thief in stealth.

You will pressure with the staff and the scepter will still be a niche weapon.

And most importantly even with these changes mesmer will be an inferior group play class still only used for duels as phantasm/PU because shatter mesmers get bent over by thieves and warriors.

and with 2 greatsword clones and an iduelist up you can get 20+ stacks of bleed.. so is scepter even going to be as good as greatsword for condi?

the main reason we will be stuck with scepter is because we want pistol offhand.. thats why most pu dont matter,, because they use torch offhand which gimps thier damage by a ton.

zaxon.6819:

and with 2 greatsword clones and an iduelist up you can get 20+ stacks of bleed.. so is scepter even going to be as good as greatsword for condi?

the main reason we will be stuck with scepter is because we want pistol offhand.. thats why most pu dont matter,, because they use torch offhand which gimps thier damage by a ton.

Greatsword phantasm is so easy to dodge, it’s not even in consideration, and putting all your eggs on bleed stacks means cleansing classes will walk all over you as you basically have 2 conditions to apply instead of the many many conditions you can apply with staff+ scepter/pistol combo.

Torch is useless anyways since the phantasm is a waste and the prestige is a huge cooldown on a spec that hardly needs more survivability. The offhand pistol is better than torch because it provides way more pressure on top of control.

Zenith.7301:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

As an auto-attack condition, I’d say Burning is inferior to Torment. Why? Because Torment can stack. There’s no possibility of your clones actually lowering your damage output by all applying burning (and then reapplying before it expires). Constantly renewing burning before it expires actually reduces the damage you deal. Plus, it only takes 4 stacks of Torment to out-damage burning against a moving target (and players will always be moving). Which, by the way, Scepter will easily be able to provide with no condition duration.

Not really, with the amount of cleansing in this game reapplying burning is not only useful, but steady damage. It’s harder to sustain 4 stacks of torment on something like an ele or warrior than simply reapplying burning and getting the beefed up damage up front.

The staff gets a crapton more cover conditions. With 2 staff clones up and an iduelist out my opponent is covered in conditions most of the time while im bathing in boons from winds of chaos and if I get pressured too much i simply lay down a chaos storm.

And on top of that it’s all aoe.

For offensive capability there’s no question staff will still be superior. Nothing will change the fact that the escepter is a backup weapon for when your staff skills are on cd and you want to switch to use iduelist or the pistol stun or to track a thief in stealth.

You will pressure with the staff and the scepter will still be a niche weapon.

And most importantly even with these changes mesmer will be an inferior group play class still only used for duels as phantasm/PU because shatter mesmers get bent over by thieves and warriors.

Cleansing the clone torment is pointless because it’s back up to max stacks within 2 seconds anyway. Cleansing is least effective against short-duration, rapidly reapplied conditions, which is exactly what torment on Ether Bolt leads to.

This is less of a problem on staff because clone generation is much slower, so you can kill the clones to slow the re-stacking and actually get some time. Even if the damage output is a bit higher, the counterplay for staff clones is higher. Scepter clones will be replaced very quickly.

I have no issues at all with putting Torment on an auto-attack. My complaint is purely with it on Ether Bolt, as that is what the endless clones will be using. Increase the torment duration on Ether Blast to let the Mesmer stack it if he wishes, I don’t mind.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zenith.7301:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

As an auto-attack condition, I’d say Burning is inferior to Torment. Why? Because Torment can stack. There’s no possibility of your clones actually lowering your damage output by all applying burning (and then reapplying before it expires). Constantly renewing burning before it expires actually reduces the damage you deal. Plus, it only takes 4 stacks of Torment to out-damage burning against a moving target (and players will always be moving). Which, by the way, Scepter will easily be able to provide with no condition duration.

Not really, with the amount of cleansing in this game reapplying burning is not only useful, but steady damage. It’s harder to sustain 4 stacks of torment on something like an ele or warrior than simply reapplying burning and getting the beefed up damage up front.

The staff gets a crapton more cover conditions. With 2 staff clones up and an iduelist out my opponent is covered in conditions most of the time while im bathing in boons from winds of chaos and if I get pressured too much i simply lay down a chaos storm.

And on top of that it’s all aoe.

For offensive capability there’s no question staff will still be superior. Nothing will change the fact that the escepter is a backup weapon for when your staff skills are on cd and you want to switch to use iduelist or the pistol stun or to track a thief in stealth.

You will pressure with the staff and the scepter will still be a niche weapon.

And most importantly even with these changes mesmer will be an inferior group play class still only used for duels as phantasm/PU because shatter mesmers get bent over by thieves and warriors.

Cleansing the clone torment is pointless because it’s back up to max stacks within 2 seconds anyway. Cleansing is least effective against short-duration, rapidly reapplied conditions, which is exactly what torment on Ether Bolt leads to.

This is less of a problem on staff because clone generation is much slower, so you can kill the clones to slow the re-stacking and actually get some time. Even if the damage output is a bit higher, the counterplay for staff clones is higher. Scepter clones will be replaced very quickly.

I have no issues at all with putting Torment on an auto-attack. My complaint is purely with it on Ether Bolt, as that is what the endless clones will be using. Increase the torment duration on Ether Blast to let the Mesmer stack it if he wishes, I don’t mind.

If they kill my staff clones I’ll be pretty happy considering the standard PU build carries on clone death condition spam, and replacing staff clones was never effective for that trait since staff clones were ranged.

But feel free to test it out when the change goes through. I’ll want videos of the scary scepter mesmer, since I’m sure a necro with his scepter let alone engineer will still frontload condition damage far better.

Those changes just mean my mesmer will be stuck doing duels/camps instead of doing actual GvG or tpvp.

zenith i did not say greatsword phantasm i said greatsword clones..

zaxon.6819:

zenith i did not say greatsword phantasm i said greatsword clones..

clone generation for the greatsword is kind of sketchy though and as I said you barely get any use besides bleed stacking, which can already be done with other weapons without wasting precious slots on obsolete power based skills.

just with staff clones and iduelist you can stack nearly max cap of bleeds on a target if they eat it all, and pretty reliably keep up 9-12 stacks of bleed most of the time on top of burning and vulnerability as a cover condition.

i just think the meta will stay power shatter..and only people who annoy and troll hotjoin/wvw will care about this change.

zaxon.6819:

yes better duel servers are allowed.. but for the most part they dont let cancer duel. no pu turret engies minion mancer blah blah.

In mine we let people choose what they dueled. If someone thinks they can beat the cheese D/P thief/terrormancer/PU Mesmer, let them try on their own dime.

I saw some success, some failure with this free choice method, but I learned a great deal about game balance watching so many different builds fight each other.

Also yes, they are fine. People aren’t being swindled out of money, they’re knowingly surrendering their money with a theoretical 50/50 shot of getting 90% of a pot of gold.