Guild Wars 2

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

Really??

I already lost like 80% vs mesmers in duels.. and you even buff them more?

Your balancing issnt BALANCING.

this game is become even more CRAZY!!

• Mantra buff was necessary.
• Bugfixes were necessary, but iLeap will be hardly avoidable now, whereas it shouldn’t have been buffed, only fixed.
• Phantasms’ distortion on summoning was necessary for WvW.
• Torment on autoattack…. wouldn’t say it was necessary. What’s more, it rewards unskilled players more than they’d deserve.

The only questionable change is the scepter auto attack. Let’s see how it unfolds.

Other changes are absolutely necessary QoL improvement of mesmer who basically sucks outside of WvW roaming(which is mostly for fun rather than bringing any usefulness).

there is no counter to ileap now.. how do you see that when a clones spawns in your FACE!! and boom..

Damage buff for GS.. why? wassnt it already strong?

But most of all..

AA torment!?!?? what??!?!??!?!?!?!?! are you sick ANET???

iLeap change was stupid in that it reduces counter-play of the iLeap—>swap+shatter combo. I understand having the swordsman spawn at the enemy to fix pathing issues…that is good. Just make it so that swap can’t be activated for 0.5-1s (like focus 4).

Increase to mind-stab is fine, but should come with damage reductions somewhere else on GS. I understand they are trying to address concerns that mesmers don’t have enough aoe. You can’t just go and give more AOE damage to a weapon that already has incredible single-target damage, and not sacrifice anything.

Torment on auto-attack is one of the worst possible changes since they added perplexity to the game. Buffing the cancer that is PU shows they have no idea how hated and detrimental to the game that spec is (b/c it is so effective while being easy and mindless to play). When my wvw matchup has enemies who are so worthless that they run this spec (b/c similar to shadow-arts thief, you are a terrible player and it is 100% your fault if you die playing this), roaming becomes un-fun that week.

All they need is have a simple cool down once you cast illusionary leap, before you can cast swap.

yes mesmer is good at dueling people who dont know what they are doing.. that isnt what anet is balancing a game around.. do you think people are going to change to sword in tpvp tournys because of ileap. or do you think they are going to stay ranged where they dont get pooped on mid fight because they are an easy target for skilled players.

why would a mesmer go down to a point kittenter and ileap someone mid fight when they could just burn them down at range with a greatsword.

I think they will implement a CD between the leap and swap, 0.5 seconds would be good. IE was a bugfix. AOE mantras are not OP. GS 3 was a useless skill and Mesmer needed some form of AOE. Torment on scepter AA is disgusting and should most definately not get the go ahead.

Ileap needs a counter.. buf this is more about Torment on AA…

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

while i’m not all too sure on both scepter attacks applying torment, i feel like i should point out, people really, really need to stop complaining about the strength of 1v1 mesmer and thief builds. those are the 1v1 professions, 1v1 is the only thing they can do.

zaxon.6819:

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

Pls reply to my Pin down argument..

Because you can counter pin down also by condi cleanse.. and still they nerfed it (it was needed dont get me wrong)

Whats the difference between that and Ileap now?

im not sure why people saying applying a condtion on an auto attack is sooo crazy.. there there are so many weapons that apply condi on auto attack.. pretty much every profession has them.. i agree torment is pretty strong of a condi.. but so is fire and people apply that on auto attack.. imo if you are siititng in scepter auto attacking as a condi mesmer you are losing dps.. if you put up 3 staff clones and 3 scepter clones with torment… the staff will most likley beat out the scepter clones just auto attacking.. then you add ie.. and it will do 2x the damage.

and if a pu mesmer is standing anywhere auto attacking slowly they are a a target.. how many pu mesmers sit outside of stealth and do anything.. they use stealth because they can not play correctly and will not make themselves a target for very long before going back to hiding.

if you cant deal with 1 scepter clone keeping up 1 stack of torment on you.. you most likely werent going to win the fight anyway

i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

Pls reply to my Pin down argument..

Because you can counter pin down also by condi cleanse.. and still they nerfed it (it was needed dont get me wrong)

Whats the difference between that and Ileap now?

6 stacks of 12 second bleeds
An extra second of immob
An extra 400 range to cast it from.
Also has a base damage on it’s attack.

Neptune.2570:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

Pls reply to my Pin down argument..

Because you can counter pin down also by condi cleanse.. and still they nerfed it (it was needed dont get me wrong)

Whats the difference between that and Ileap now?

6 stacks of 12 second bleeds
An extra second of immob
An extra 400 range to cast it from.
Also has a base damage on it’s attack.

Still condi can be removed.. so again, why?

Because its not ONLY the ileap. its you have a Free to go 100% hitting blurred Frenzy now…

what if warriors get ileap on GS.. your “ok” with that also? instant 100% hitting 100b??

Ofc not, those skill should be having a form of counterplay

Also people are forgetting that Ileap itself has a cast, there is an animation tell from the Mesmer.

zaxon.6819:

i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.

these arguments are so bad.

But sure and now place it on my GS so i can have a 100% 100b all the time just like you can with blurred frenzy

the counter play to ileap blurred frenzy is retliation and the mesmer pretty much kills himself

and it seems that you are playing a warrior and talking about counterplay to this…. the counter play is.. your stance that lets condis not get applied to you.. cleansing ire… endure pain… every ability you have is counterplay to this.

zaxon.6819:

the counter play to ileap blurred frenzy is retliation and the mesmer pretty much kills himself

Zaxon pls just stop with your mindless weird counterplay arguments..

im just saying that you just want to whine.. there are so many ways to deal with this that dont take 2 seconds of thought.. look at the mesmers animations and see the cast time.. and dodge.. i agree the old leap was the most telegraphed skill in the whole entire gw2 game.. but now it still has as much counter play as 75 percent of the other skills in the game.

nicknamenick.2437:

Neptune.2570:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

Pls reply to my Pin down argument..

Because you can counter pin down also by condi cleanse.. and still they nerfed it (it was needed dont get me wrong)

Whats the difference between that and Ileap now?

6 stacks of 12 second bleeds
An extra second of immob
An extra 400 range to cast it from.
Also has a base damage on it’s attack.

Still condi can be removed.. so again, why?

Because its not ONLY the ileap. its you have a Free to go 100% hitting blurred Frenzy now…

what if warriors get ileap on GS.. your “ok” with that also? instant 100% hitting 100b??

Ofc not, those skill should be having a form of counterplay

Blurred frenzy is not overly damaging. Your arcing arrow will do roughly the same damage.

zaxon.6819:

im just saying that you just want to whine.. there are so many ways to deal with this that dont take 2 seconds of thought.. look at the mesmers animations and see the cast time.. and dodge.. i agree the old leap was the most telegraphed skill in the whole entire gw2 game.. but now it still has as much counter play as 75 percent of the other skills in the game.

Warriors have the most telegraphed skills.. not mesmer
And did you even looked at the stream? because the animation you see is just the same as all other skills on mesmers.. you cant really see it..

And no i aint whining about it, you come with mindless arguments about condi cleanse and retaliation.. those are always counters just like blind.
The problem is you cant really see it coming so you dont know when to dodge it.

Thats what this is all about.. that the reason the nerfed pin down also on that argument.

the crazy thing is… warriors complaining about mesmers.. mind blowing. learn to play

Neptune.2570:

nicknamenick.2437:

Neptune.2570:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

Pls reply to my Pin down argument..

Because you can counter pin down also by condi cleanse.. and still they nerfed it (it was needed dont get me wrong)

Whats the difference between that and Ileap now?

6 stacks of 12 second bleeds
An extra second of immob
An extra 400 range to cast it from.
Also has a base damage on it’s attack.

Still condi can be removed.. so again, why?

Because its not ONLY the ileap. its you have a Free to go 100% hitting blurred Frenzy now…

what if warriors get ileap on GS.. your “ok” with that also? instant 100% hitting 100b??

Ofc not, those skill should be having a form of counterplay

Blurred frenzy is not overly damaging. Your arcing arrow will do roughly the same damage.

uhm blurred is also evade remember?…

iLeap has animation on clone cast and delay between the cast and swap.
The clone is weak, AA and it dies before the swap is ready.

and this has nothing to do with mesmers leap compared to warrior pindown.. those skills are not the same.. they are not on the same profession with the same defensive abilitys with the same anything.. some how pindown in your mind equates to ileap. just because they both have imob.. but you dont compare pindown to other imobs..

i get it you are kitten about the pindown nerf.. but the situaion is in no way the same.

zaxon.6819:

learn to play

If these changes to mesmer scepter go through zax, you won’t even need to play the game. This is a terrible change to pvp on the scale of almost introducing perplexity runes into spvp.

The counter play?

Just mash 1 key and AA the clone dead before we can swap places…

The skill was never reliable and now it finally is.

warriors are a profession that can actually stay in meele range and meele.. if a mesmer did that he would get destroyed.. the only way a mesmer will ever use blurred frenzy offensive is with ileap and when it is done he is getting out of there before he dies. ileap blurred frenzy is the only time a mesmer will be meeling anyone who has any idea what they are doing.. if you dont see the diffence between that and a warrior.. not sure what to tell you.

nicknamenick.2437:

Neptune.2570:

nicknamenick.2437:

Neptune.2570:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…

and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..

Pls reply to my Pin down argument..

Because you can counter pin down also by condi cleanse.. and still they nerfed it (it was needed dont get me wrong)

Whats the difference between that and Ileap now?

6 stacks of 12 second bleeds
An extra second of immob
An extra 400 range to cast it from.
Also has a base damage on it’s attack.

Still condi can be removed.. so again, why?

Because its not ONLY the ileap. its you have a Free to go 100% hitting blurred Frenzy now…

what if warriors get ileap on GS.. your “ok” with that also? instant 100% hitting 100b??

Ofc not, those skill should be having a form of counterplay

Blurred frenzy is not overly damaging. Your arcing arrow will do roughly the same damage.

uhm blurred is also evade remember?…

How is that relevant to the Ileap/swap change? Only the blurred frenzy damage is relevant as it combo’s.

I always enjoy your threads nick… really I do.

even with this change to ileap.. most people still will not use sword over greatsword for any reason.. because it is dumb for you to be mid fight in any team fight ever unless you are just trolling hotjoins. or dueling.. but w/e

zaxon.6819:

and this has nothing to do with mesmers leap compared to warrior pindown.. those skills are not the same.. they are not on the same profession with the same defensive abilitys with the same anything.. some how pindown in your mind equates to ileap. just because they both have imob.. but you dont compare pindown to other imobs..

i get it you are kitten about the pindown nerf.. but the situaion is in no way the same.

we asked whats the counter play for ileap?

You said its a condition you can remove it.

Where i say thats also for pin down.. (and again it did needed a nerf… so no i aint kitten about it)

(so i was telling you that argument issnt good)

But nvm i am done with your mindless defending or l2p replies
Or: warrior complain about mesmer

Really? why do you defend the mesmer right now so hard? because they are already very good in duels, now they become even better.

Are you just that bad???

l2p for me?

soon you dont even need to play.. just smash some 111111

But good luck on your mesmer, done with it.

And done with Anet failing balancing.

sorry you are quitting.. you were such a joy to the community.

nicknamenick.2437:

Warriors have the most telegraphed skills.. not mesmer

Big Ole Bomb, the entire engineer bomb kit, and all of the ranger pet F2 skills and magnet(literally had a beam of light on you as it channels) would like to say hello, as soon as they can stop laughing.

Although to be fair, kill shot does have one of the most obvious and easy to avoid skills in the game if you ask me

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.

these arguments are so bad.

But sure and now place it on my GS so i can have a 100% 100b all the time just like you can with blurred frenzy

Mesmer Sword has the second-weakest Sword AA in the Game (Powerwise), and if you actually take the Warrior’s Sword’s bleeding application (even on builds with 0 conditiondamage) in mind, it may become the actual weakest Sword AA in the Game.

Blurred fency has a damage-coeffcient of (2.4). In Comparison, the Warrior’s Greatsword has (5.5) on 100b, (2.8) on Whirlwind Attack, (1.7) on Rush and and (1.5) on Blade Trail ( giving the blade hits two times); Arcing Slice (although never really used) has a modifier of (1.3). 100blades alone outdamages Blurred Fency by far , and if you forced your opponent to dodge twice (which isn’t hard as warrior, giving the sheer amount of hard-hitting attacks), and used 100b mid-melee range, you would have already outdamaged Blurred Fency by the time your opponent got out of your attacking-cone – And you don’t even have to use inmob for that. In case you actually inmobilize your foe, a full Blurred Fency will not even down Soft Targets in one Swoop – but 100blades certainly does.

Neither Sword AA nor Blurred Fency will put too much pressure on your foe; And by the way – Mesmer mainhand Sword is already a weaker, more gimmicky Version of Thief S/P 2-3 + a weaker AA. And i can tell you, my thief can use #2->#3 much more often than my mesmer and hits way harder while doing so (even the Shadowstepping part itself) – initiative may have been a problem in the past, but ever since the buff to it’s regenerationspeed i can use it far more often without pushing myself into a corner (S/P was way harder to play back then)…

To your Pindown: this spell had 6 stacks of bleeding for 12 seconds at base stats (mind blown!) PLUS inmobilize; and no, ¾seconds is not “overly telegraphed” at all – many classes have ¾s spells which are telegraphed just as well while not having nearly the strength of a pin down. And don’t even try coming with a “strafing” argument; the pin-down-shot doesn’t move slow at all, and the 50% Movementspeed reduction in-combat will make strafing impossible unless the warrior fires it at 1000-1200 range.
Actually i don’t even know why i’am explaining this, since i’am not sure what the inmobilize on pin down (a ranged set) has to do with iLeap, which is used on a melee set – a Sword wiedling Mesmer is slower than any Sword or Greatsword wielding Warrior, can’t take as much damage, doesn’t do as much damage with it, and does not nearly have so many ways to counter movement-impairing conditions via traits as a warrior can, so why is it so hard to understand that inmobilize is actually very important to melee Mesmers?

Of course i hope that there will be a delay between spawning the clone and teleporting (look at focus #4, it takes a second as well until the pull can be used), because no matter how much Swordmesmer need it – instant inmobilize would just be silly.

Damage buff for GS.. why? wassnt it already strong? (…)

GS#3 has never been a high-damage skills, and it won’t be one after the buff either. And no, if you want to know it exactly: GS itself is not “already Strong”. iBerserk is a weak (lower coefficient) and double-telegraphed version of Whirlwind Attack, #5 does unnoticeable damage, #2 is kind of okay, but has the same damage as Blade Trail (which is the weakest non-AA on Warrior GS), and the Autoattack is barely noticeable when used against Zerkerwarriors – use it against PVT Warrs, and you won’t even get past the Regeneration given by Healing Signet (and this is coming from someone running full zerker; so my MesGS won’t get much stronger than it is).

AA torment!?!?? what??!?!??!?!?!?!?! are you sick ANET???

I main mesmer and i fully agree with this. If you’re looking into the mesmer Subforum, you will see even more Mesmermainers hating this change. It will make the most stupid, most braindead and most passive Condispec even more overpowered than it already is right now – this will undoubtly lead to a mass of bad players “jumping on the train”, creating an alt mesmer and terrorizing WvW with their newfound holy grail…

Anyone got an Idea how we could make the devs see how terrible their decision was ?

the fact that this thread compared pin down to ileap is nonsense.. it is more like the worst theif steal you could ever ask for.. ileap without blurred frenzy is complete garbage.. and blurred frenzy without ileap is also just an evade pretty much.. so 2 buttons on the sword = one skill.. or 2 bad skills.

ileap is steal with no damage.. no actual stealing.. no poison.. no healing.. nothing..

it it is a shadow step with a short imob..

not a pindown..

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

im just saying that you just want to whine.. there are so many ways to deal with this that dont take 2 seconds of thought.. look at the mesmers animations and see the cast time.. and dodge.. i agree the old leap was the most telegraphed skill in the whole entire gw2 game.. but now it still has as much counter play as 75 percent of the other skills in the game.

Warriors have the most telegraphed skills.. not mesmer
And did you even looked at the stream? because the animation you see is just the same as all other skills on mesmers.. you cant really see it..

And no i aint whining about it, you come with mindless arguments about condi cleanse and retaliation.. those are always counters just like blind.
The problem is you cant really see it coming so you dont know when to dodge it.

Thats what this is all about.. that the reason the nerfed pin down also on that argument.

You two are both wrong the most telegraphed skills in the game are on ele and are dragons tooth, shatterstone, churning earth, and meteor shower. Anyone who has been hit by either of the first 2 because they didn’t see it coming should be ashamed of themselves.

the fact that ileap needs to be balanced with pindown in mind for any reason is nonsense is my point in most of this.. the 2 skills are surrounded by a whole differnt set of skills/stats/traits and the comparison between them is not relevant here.

I’ll try to be serious about this. I feel like the complaints about the recent mesmer skill bar are directed to the wrong aspect. Why complain about PU? Personally I feel the trait will never changed(it got buffed a long time ago) because the devs look at it as a GM trait in toughness+boon duration trait line not as PU condition or power set up that most people call cheese.

So why is no one mentioning Debilitating Dissipation? If not familiar with the name it is the trait trigger bleed/vulnerability/weakness on clone death AKA death clone for dislikers. Since the hate is strong with this one why not propose reduction of bleed/vulnerability to 2 stacks and reduce their duration to 4 or 3 sec and maintain the recent mesmer skill bar(it’s not like you are a dev anyway…).

For anyone who doesn’t know or is not familiar with those complaints the hate comes from the mix of three traits PU+DE+DD and of course any mention of wanted nerf to DE is the last thing wanted since PU will not change viewed alone why not change DD since it’s not a condition damage or duration trait line.

A proper condition mesmer has to DE but PU and Maim the Disillusioned cannot be on the same build so the hate might too strong.

if u lost 80% of ur figts against mesmers then try to roll a mesmer and figure em out b4 making ragethreads, like srsly

the only change as a mesmer user(i actually play engi, ele , sometimes ranger, and necro either) wich i dont find a really good thought out is the scepter aa torment, it promotes pu condi builds, wich were nearly unkillable in the hands of a good players anyway.

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

PU condition is already godly in 1v1. But not too many mesmer players play that because it contributes little in team fight, does poorly in conquest mode, and hard to kill people if they decide to just go away.

Not sure if the scepter AA torment will change that

Bweh I play my mesmer quite alot in pvp, and the change to I-leap is good, don’t even need to add a cooldown, lots of classes can wreak unpredictable or hard to telegraph burst.

But seriously torment on auto attack? Lets make one of the most toxic gamplays even more toxic?

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

WWW: Do you know any class with +1k range can backstep from a PU mesmer or P/D thief and still won? The lack of mobility end up in chase most ignore that their heavy weakness of those set up any pew pew ranger can be as glass canon as he want and let them chase him.

PvP: The game is balanced around 5v5 I heavily doubt without PU/lesser stealth the mesmer will not get stomped easily in team fight. 1v1 condition necro,engi,thief,shout war/guard,cantrip D/D ele, 0 6 0 4 4 S/F ele,+1k range classes…..can beat a PU mesmer. Conquest just have to be removed and the problem is not here anymore.

hey, i like the changes!

Torment on AA is too much.