Guild Wars 2

Whenever a minion necro goes up against a Mesmer I have been the unpleasant victim of being moa’d which is tough, but what makes it even worse is all 6 of my minions instantly vanish giving the Mesmer a HUGE advantage against my build. I have noticed that Mesmer clones do not shatter when a Mesmer is Moa’d and I also notice that rangers are able to retain their pet. Is there a reason why Necro’s are punished more when this skill hits than other classes?

Moa has a 1-second cast time. Learn the animation and dodge it.

Also, don’t expect any pity for MM Necros, as it is one of the EASIEST specs to play and is incredibly effective for the little required skill. Having a skill-counter to what you are trying to do is just fine.

Finally, all summoned pets disappear when you transform. It even says so on the Lich and Plague-form transform skill. Ranger pets aren’t summoned, and mesmer clones are different types of entities than pets.

I don’t believe it is only MM necros. Spirit Rangers lose their spirits and Guardians lose their spirit weapons. I think Engineers lost their turrets, too, but I’m not certian. All of these are because they are chain skills. Notice that you don’t lose jagged horrors when Moa’d (or go into Lich Form or Plague), because they aren’t tied to a chain skill.

It is a bug, though. The Lich Form and Plague tooltips were updated as a warning, but no work appears to have been done on actually fixing the bug.

EDIT: I was wrong, it does only affect minions and not other summons.

It does have a 1 sec cast time. Dodge the dodge worthy skills.

But if you lose all of your minions and clones/spirits don’t, then yes it needs a fix so that all lose them or all loses none.

Moa Morph can blocked and dodged. Its casting can also be interrupted. By virtue you have elected all AI pets you have forgone the ability to block/stability/condition remove through utilities and perhaps find it hard to spot the cast through the minion clutter on screen. It is the risk you take when you place all your eggs in one basket. If you see a mesmer, you know it could happen so therefore should be very focused on watching for it.

All agree that a build that exploits such massive AI should have a very big down side to it. In this case it is moa morph. In gw1 you could destroy/steal another players minions/spirits and turn them against them. The mechanic of needing corpses help add a natural check and balance to the MM, and long cast times to the spirit spam ritualists. In gw2 there is no check/balance as such..so Moa acts as the hard counter to it.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Moa Morph can blocked and dodged. Its casting can also be interrupted. By virtue you have elected all AI pets you have forgone the ability to block/stability/condition remove through utilities

Necros have no block or dodge options on any skill, let alone utilities. Plus, condition removal/stunbreaks/stability don’t do anything against Moa anyhow.

And no, Moa Morph is not a counter to MM, the bug relating to transformations and summons is.

I repeat: it is a BUG that Moa, Plague, and Lich Form kill off all non-jagged horror minions. The tooltips for the necro elites got changed to serve as a warning, but it is actually not intended. The same is true for other summons that Moa kills; it is not intended for transformations to kill them.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Moa Morph can blocked and dodged. Its casting can also be interrupted. By virtue you have elected all AI pets you have forgone the ability to block/stability/condition remove through utilities

Necros have no block or dodge options on any skill, let alone utilities. Plus, condition removal/stunbreaks/stability don’t do anything against Moa anyhow.

And no, Moa Morph is not a counter to MM, the bug relating to transformations and summons is.

I repeat: it is a BUG that Moa, Plague, and Lich Form kill off all non-jagged horror minions. The tooltips for the necro elites got changed to serve as a warning, but it is actually not intended. The same is true for other summons that Moa kills; it is not intended for transformations to kill them.

If it says so on the tooltip how can you possibly justify that it’s not intended/bugged O_o

Don’t complain when there’s a a relatively unused hard counter to the most brain-dead easy spec in the current meta

Errant Venture.9371:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Moa Morph can blocked and dodged. Its casting can also be interrupted. By virtue you have elected all AI pets you have forgone the ability to block/stability/condition remove through utilities

Necros have no block or dodge options on any skill, let alone utilities. Plus, condition removal/stunbreaks/stability don’t do anything against Moa anyhow.

And no, Moa Morph is not a counter to MM, the bug relating to transformations and summons is.

I repeat: it is a BUG that Moa, Plague, and Lich Form kill off all non-jagged horror minions. The tooltips for the necro elites got changed to serve as a warning, but it is actually not intended. The same is true for other summons that Moa kills; it is not intended for transformations to kill them.

If it says so on the tooltip how can you possibly justify that it’s not intended/bugged O_o

Don’t complain when there’s a a relatively unused hard counter to the most brain-dead easy spec in the current meta

When the tooltip got updated, it was after an official statement from the devs that Transforms killing minions was a bug, and that they would update the tooltips to warn players of it while they worked to fix it. Unfortunately, it seems the team forgot about it as it’s been over a year and a half, with still no fix. It will take a lot of digging, but finding that post is possible in the necro forums.

EDIT: I’m still looking myself for the specific post where this was stated, but it was confirmed to be a bug by both Jon Chapman and Josh Davis ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Moa-Morph-inconsistently-effects-Minions/first#post2664582 ). I found Davis’s confirmation.

Necro have no block, evade.
Yeah, they have blind.

I play mesmer, and i find moa the most useless skill for mesmer.
Sometimes, other mesmer moa me, but i survive and kill them.

Ps: it’s amazing, because necro have a skill with the same effect for me.
Signet of spite, oblige to use all my dispell and i still have 10stack of bleed, 20s of poison.

gl dodging moa while mesmer is stealthed

but as long as mm is not nerfed, i welcome moa mesmers

Do minions use their abilities on death? Because if they do, and Moa ‘kills’ them, I’d consider that a bug. Moa should cause minions to explode and spirits to use their skills imo. But other than that, it sounds like you’ve met your rock.

The minions just disappear and do not turn into poison clouds as traited. It is more like I “unequipped” them when I am transformed. Unlike spirits, minion skills do not activate when they die.

The Mesmer is often invisible when I get moa’d which is good play if you ask me.

I figured this was all related to the bug mentioned a long time ago, but wanted to bring it back up for visibility.

Reborn D.2769:

Necro have no block, evade.
Yeah, they have blind.

Not much, though. It either requires an elite (Plague) or a long cooldown utility (Well of Darkness, Signet of Spite). or a huuuuge tell (Haunt from Shadow Fiend, also Signet of Spite). Deathly Swarm is the only blind that’s even close to “on demand”, and it’s still a slow moving projectile and more useful for the condition transfer. The number of blinds is respectable, but the application is poor.

Ps: it’s amazing, because necro have a skill with the same effect for me.
Signet of spite, oblige to use all my dispell and i still have 10stack of bleed, 20s of poison.

Really? Signet of Spite completely turns off half of your skills even after its own effect expires? I had no idea a bunch (5) of single-stack, short duration conditions were so powerful, especially since one gets removed with your first auto-attack (Blind).

Signet of Spite never kills anyone. It’s just there to make sure important things do not get removed. Keep a close eye on your stacks. If they get high, cleanse before the signet hits (or dodge the signet, it’s really obvious and the necro can’t hide it unlike mesmers and any of their skills). If they’re low and you get hit with Signet of Spite, don’t panic and blow all your removal, because the actual effect of the signet is weak.

Moa delivers swift karmic justice in poultry form, working as intended OP.

Well if i remember correctly, a long time ago some Anet guy said, that they are looking at it but it has a low priority to fix. I think this is also more difficult to fix as it is intended for the minions to disappear when the skill is unequipped, which happens upon transformation. And if we consider how much problems this game still has, we probably will have to wait for a fix for a long time.
Or maybe they dont care about necros at all…

hey you necros have condi transfer and that really screws my build, nerf

K U T M.4539:

hey you necros have condi transfer and that really screws my build, nerf

Sorry, I don’t think that fighting someone on their own terms (condi battle with a necro, the intentionally designed “masters of conditions”) compares to using an exploit. Yes, Moa-users are not generally aware that it is, in fact, a bug that they are using, but it is still an exploit.

I have no complaints with Moa. In fact, the problem is with the working of the necro’s skills. Moa is simply the only transformation that can be applied to the necro that the necro does not have control over, so it gets pointed at. The actual problem is with the minion skills.

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Probably not when it has a 180s cooldown.

I got to agree that this has to be fixed. However, people really exaggerate the use of Moa. Mesmers usually run MI or TW making encountering Moa extremly rare. I can also understand Mesmers using it when being trolled with Minions in PvP, though.

Moa is ridiculous in any scenario.

And to the “Oh, dodge it” crowd – in the past 3 days I’ve been moa’d 5 or 6 times. Only once was the mesmer actually visible. It should be half the duration and the #5 “flee” ability should be restored to its previous duration.

Kincaidia.3192:

Moa is ridiculous in any scenario.

And to the “Oh, dodge it” crowd – in the past 3 days I’ve been moa’d 5 or 6 times. Only once was the mesmer actually visible. It should be half the duration and the #5 “flee” ability should be restored to its previous duration.

Moa is under used. Mass invis and TW are more common. Also getting moa’d by a visable mes… Is a l2dodge thing.

A MM necro can still beat a mesmer after Moa. (Unless he is phant build then it’s a bit more tricky) in the case of shatter and PU both can be properly outplayed. Where otherwise the MM necro has a significant advantage.

If mesmer can even the playing field in one skill that is not a instant “I win” button then it’s fine and balanced.

Both classes have play between each other and although mesmer has the active move if he missed its likely to be GG.

What I don’t get is when fellow Necros QQ. I enjoy playing both necro and mes but to be fair necro walks over mes so easily and are moderately OP. Another class Necros hard counter having a way to even the playing field isn’t broken.

@those who think it’s a bug: Perhaps at first but A-net is aware of it and has made comments on “do we like how this kills all necro minions?” Now I get they are slow to do things but there has been no reaction or statements since so I’d presume they settled that it’s working as intended for now.

I moa a MM necro and killed him with a well timed shatter combo. He wispered me Moa=brainless. I lmao.

In before “learn to dodge” is used to justify any gross imbalance.

Edit: Too late.

Daishi.6027:

@those who think it’s a bug: Perhaps at first but A-net is aware of it and has made comments on “do we like how this kills all necro minions?” Now I get they are slow to do things but there has been no reaction or statements since so I’d presume they settled that it’s working as intended for now.

If it was working as intended, it should also kill of Ranger spirits, Guardian Spirit Weapons, and Engineer Turrets (save from Supply Drop). It affects none of those.

Since it does not kill those summons off, and we have confirmation from Josh Davis that the inconsistent behavior is not intended, and John Chapman stated that minions are not supposed to die when the Necro transforms, what we are left with is that it is indeed a bug. A low priority one to fix, perhaps, but still a bug.

It’s nice seeing so much of the community “Show their true colors”, so to speak.

Despite proof from the dev’s that the issue is a bug and clearly unintended, so many of you are completely cool with it because of the spec in question. “It’s braindead”, or “It’s too easy”, or you find it annoying to fight. So let’s just ignore a bug that completely shuts down the spec (because they deserve it, right?) It’s laughable that so many of you feel you’re qualified to suggest balance changes when this is your attitude concerning an improperly functioning interaction with such a strong effect.

If you don’t like MM, take that conversation elsewhere – not liking a spec is no reason to ignore a bug that 100% completely kills it.

If Moa countered Rangers’ Spirit, I would be really happy.
So far, I am still happy because the “braindead-ness” of MM necro is un matched by anything. No hambow, no decap engi, no Spirit Ranger will ever reach the rate of “hey let me drink a coffee while you die” which MM Necros have.
If it is a bug, it will be fixed eventually. If it is not a bug, then it won’t.
Also, if the MM is any good, he should keep track of the CD of the skill so that he will be faster to react the next time the Mesmer uses it. I have avoided a lot of Moa Morphs after I got Moaed once (not as a MM necro though, since I will never play such a spec).

Honestly?

The very next comment?

Do you have no shame?

There’s no question as to whether or not it’s a bug; that would have been clear had you read the posts you decided to comment on. If you don’t like MM, have that discussion elsewhere – this isn’t a feedback thread, it’s a “Fix this spec destroying bug please” thread – your opinion on the spec is immaterial.

There’s also no value in describing how someone can “play around” a bug – it’s a non-conversation. Players shouldn’t be altering their playstyle to accommodate a bug, bugs should be fixed.

Nothing new that this ability disables any class in the game, isn’t just for minion necros in particular. Thieves lose access to blind, mobility and stealth, Guardians aren’t able to chain blocks and blinds, warriors their healing signet and adrenal health, list goes on !

There are other elites out there that have more situations where they are powerful, aside from moa with a 10 seconds disable in Xv1-
- Lich Form, in a team fight or 1v1 this skill can be devastating if it’s used by a power necro.
- Plague Form, pretty much invulnerability from melee for 20 seconds.
- Spirit of nature, dem heals and ress.
- Tornado, high CC.
- Rampage, high CC and mobility.
- Elixir X, Random between rampage and tornado.
- Mass Invis, really great utility.
- Thieves Guild, CC and a good kick in dmg.

All have their situations where they are too strong and situations where they are easily counterable. Getting moa’d can be countered in itself, you maintain dodge and you have a mobility skill on 5, also mesmers are highly dependent on LoS. I think moa is just fine, counterable in and out. But an ele entering tornado is only counterably by ranged attacks and stability, which can be really annoying when they’re on top of a capture point.

Right. The Moa skill is perfectly fine. All that this thread is actually addressing is that it killing minions is a bug that needs to get fixed and, well, hasn’t been despite being known since launch over a year and a half ago.

Given transforms don’t kill other summons, you would think it would be a simple matter to look at the code in question for things that don’t get killed and minions, then change the minion code to match.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Epidemic on target with condis up, any AOE all “vaporize” clones(super squishy) squishy if they are not spread apart in a big big area compared to minions who are fairly tanky actually.

I’m actually fine with this bug since AI builds like minion master shouldn’t exist in pvp at all.
People don’t use moa in s/tpvp anyway .

Though i don’t think it’s fine they just poof when you enter water since that is lame for PvE where people should be allowed to run whatever they like.

Vuh.1328:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Epidemic on target with condis up, any AOE all “vaporize” clones(super squishy) squishy if they are not spread apart in a big big area compared to minions who are fairly tanky actually.

I’m actually fine with this bug since AI builds like minion master shouldn’t exist in pvp at all.
People don’t use moa in s/tpvp anyway .

Though i don’t think it’s fine they just poof when you enter water since that is lame for PvE where people should be allowed to run whatever they like.

This is literally the worst opinion you could possibly have.

Regardless whether you feel a build is fair, fun, high skill, etc, you should be interested in things working correctly. If you want to make the case that MM shouldn’t exist in PvP, do it in another thread. You should not be ok with class-gimping bugs just because you don’t like the spec – this is a perfect example of one of this games biggest issues that can’t be solved by the dev team – the players who don’t care if things work until it affects them negatively.

If you’re not interested in a functioning game for all, you’re not interested in a good game – go play something else, you’re making GW2 worse.

Why do people tend to forget.
A. It’s a bug.
B. Necros have the absolute worst amount of blocks/evades etc and have to be VERY sparing to not waste any, so we can’t just random dodge Moa “easily”.
C. In relation to B, Mesmers can stealth for 3-4 seconds at a time? You can easily vary up when the best time to cast your moa in that time frame would be. Not to mention, at the same time, that necromancer is looking for you in a crowd of clones. You think it’s hard to get a moa off as a Mesmer when you have clones AND stealth? You’re the one that needs to learn to play, not the necromancer. >_>:

ITT: People apparently don’t know that Polymorph Moa can be used while stealthed.

If I could give more +1’s to evilapprentice’s post, I would. It is indefensible that people argue that just because they find minion masters annoying in pvp, that a spec-breaking bug should there for exist. If you’re not interested in fixing bugs, then you are indeed not interested in improving the game. And any suggestion you make for the game, deserves to be ignored.

If you want to argue that Minion Master builds don’t have enough counter play, you can take that conversation somewhere else. It is an entirely different topic. But this is a bug, and no one should ever be in favor of keeping a bug in the game. Especially one that breaks a spec.

Heck, necromancers are limited in what they can play as it is. People were furious about our condition builds, and they still are, so that gets nerfed into useless, plus we get Diamond Back which completely cancels out that spec. Next up is Minion Master, where the necro already suffers from having to rely on poor ai… and STILL people complain that it is too strong. Are we all going to be reduced to playing either power specs or a different class soon? I think I get it. You all just don’t want us to play a necromancer. You’d prefer to have the necromancer removed from the game. That’s what this boils down to. And to you I say, get out! There’s the door, don’t let it hit you on the way out.

Facts:

• Necros who play full MM have no reliable condition cleanse. They must either be running dagger offhand (Deadly Swarm can be dodged/reflected, has an obvious animation), and/or use staff (marks are dodge/blocked even easier).

• Blood Fiend is their main life line. Kill that and he’ll have a hard time healing. Has a 20 sec cd (16 sec when traited but then they don’t have Staff Mastery or Greater Marks which makes it easier to deal with their marks) and a whopping 1 and a half sec cast time (might as well scream “INTERRUPT ME PLOX” and put a giant red bullseye on the necro).

• Minions suffer from horrible ai, tend to cluster together so AOE IS YOUR FRIEND.

• Like their masters, minions suffer from what is know in the necro community as the “ping-pong effect”, so cc them at your hearts content. Only Flesh Golem get’s stability for 15 secs when using Charge (which can be stripped or stolen for your personal use).

• The act of Moa, Lich and Plague removing all minions is a bug and is known by the devs. It’s not a “feature”. As with most major necro bugs, we’ll be having a fix for that in a year or so * cough * ds utility bug * cough *

So instead of screaming “l2p / l2dodge / OP QQ ehuehuehue” learn the class and contribute to the topic.

And as far as “relying on ai” goes, mesmers are one to talk, their entire class is based around the ai of clones and phantasms.

My main is a Mesmer, hell I’ve really only played Mesmer since Beta as I love the class so much. Yet, I’m a strong advocate for fixing this… putting an elite on someone that kills of all their pets can only be a bug and needs to be fixed.

Necro’s rely – much like Mesmers – in many ways for clones/pets/illusions/whatever you want to call them for damage, utility and support. Suddenly removing that with the press of one button cannot be right. It’s the same when the recent bug caused all illusions to self-destruct with a Mesmer when the opponent went into stealth and our illusions lost their targets.

Marsares.2053:

My main is a Mesmer, hell I’ve really only played Mesmer since Beta as I love the class so much. Yet, I’m a strong advocate for fixing this… putting an elite on someone that kills of all their pets can only be a bug and needs to be fixed.

Necro’s rely – much like Mesmers – in many ways for clones/pets/illusions/whatever you want to call them for damage, utility and support. Suddenly removing that with the press of one button cannot be right. It’s the same when the recent bug caused all illusions to self-destruct with a Mesmer when the opponent went into stealth and our illusions lost their targets.

Holy kitten. A Mesmer with a brain. . .

Losing the minions is not the problem…it never was. Moa SHOULD remove them because it is the hardest counter for MM. That’s fine. What is NOT ok is the fact they go on full cooldown….which BEGINS AFTER Moa ends! Meaning not only did the mesmer shut us down for the duration of the moa, but for the duration of the minion cd’s as well. That is NOT ok. And that is what the problem with this skill is. Not the minion removal. And to all those mesmers out there who QQ because they love their 1 hit wonder skill so much: only baddie mesmers panic-cast that right in front of the necros face. A good one will get out of his LoS so it can’t be dodged in time. So your points are moot about “dodge it” and the best one yet"learn to block it"….. yeah let me pull my hidden necro blocks out of my bag of tricks…oh wait.

Glenn.3417:

Facts:

• Necros who play full MM have no reliable condition cleanse. They must either be running dagger offhand (Deadly Swarm can be dodged/reflected, has an obvious animation), and/or use staff (marks are dodge/blocked even easier).

• Blood Fiend is their main life line. Kill that and he’ll have a hard time healing. Has a 20 sec cd (16 sec when traited but then they don’t have Staff Mastery or Greater Marks which makes it easier to deal with their marks) and a whopping 1 and a half sec cast time (might as well scream “INTERRUPT ME PLOX” and put a giant red bullseye on the necro).

• Minions suffer from horrible ai, tend to cluster together so AOE IS YOUR FRIEND.

• Like their masters, minions suffer from what is know in the necro community as the “ping-pong effect”, so cc them at your hearts content. Only Flesh Golem get’s stability for 15 secs when using Charge (which can be stripped or stolen for your personal use).

• The act of Moa, Lich and Plague removing all minions is a bug and is known by the devs. It’s not a “feature”. As with most major necro bugs, we’ll be having a fix for that in a year or so * cough * ds utility bug * cough *

So instead of screaming “l2p / l2dodge / OP QQ ehuehuehue” learn the class and contribute to the topic.

And as far as “relying on ai” goes, mesmers are one to talk, their entire class is based around the ai of clones and phantasms.

i am sorry, my alt for ranked is mm necro and IT IS braindead build, effective for home bunkering and countered by massive aoe but still braindead

yes, moa is annoying but i think since when any class gets moa’d and can’t use any spells so shouldn’t necro… your pets got detroyed? too bad….when you get moa’d as ele or thief you usually just die due to low HP pool… at least you keep your high HP pool as necro and have chance to survive

what really would help though is to make moa skill not usable while stealthed, so player at least has chance to dodge it

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

Mesmer isnt AI based maybe ? Do u read wut u write sometime ?

Gonna buy a new brain, in hope, its gonna be more efficient than ur current one.

i don’t think i could have less pity for an AI crutch build.
i hate mesmers, but i hate MMs even more.

Liewec.2896:

i don’t think i could have less pity for an AI crutch build.
i hate mesmers, but i hate MMs even more.

there is no ai crutch build. mesmer = ai. everything else that wasnt based on ai got nerfed to the ground. believe me id rather not play with that much ai as i mainly play wvw and ai is terribad in wvw raids.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Nope. I’d be fine with Moa Morph destroying my illusions if used on me. It’s a skill that can be blocked, dodged, and has a 180 second cooldown.

Jackums.3496:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Nope. I’d be fine with Moa Morph destroying my illusions if used on me. It’s a skill that can be blocked, dodged, and has a 180 second cooldown.

Whether or not you’re fine with it is irrelevant. It’s an acknowledged bug – it should be fixed.

Huh, a moa mesmer? Old school. I haven’t seen anyone use that skill in ages, myself included… PU mesmer is the the current flavor right now, so most people just run MI to get some extra stealth.

Anyway, sounds pretty buggy that minions unsummon when moa’d, hope they fix that.

Jackums.3496:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Nope. I’d be fine with Moa Morph destroying my illusions if used on me. It’s a skill that can be blocked, dodged, and has a 180 second cooldown.

Say the class with vigor and blocking.

honestly, id be fine with moa being removed from the game and i main a mesmer. (my main alt is a necro). its a stupid elite which doesnt really fit into any of the builds. i’d rather have something else than this one!

runeblade.7514:

Jackums.3496:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jackums.3496:

That’s the cost of playing passive AI builds. Working as intended.

It’s clearly not working as intended, it’s a bug. If necromancers had a skill that instantly vaporized all mesmer clones, there would be an uproar from the community.

Nope. I’d be fine with Moa Morph destroying my illusions if used on me. It’s a skill that can be blocked, dodged, and has a 180 second cooldown.

Say the class with vigor and blocking.

And a class that can summon their illusions IN STEALTH without it breaking. And they only need to summon 2-3 phants to be effective, and each phantasm is FAR more effective per unit than each individual minion we have to summon (all 5 that are weaker individually). Totaling 7.5 seconds of just summoning time we have to waste while we get beat in the face, because we can’t hide behind distort and stealth. (Nor DS mind you. Can’t summon in death shroud!) All of this is AFTER 10 seconds of being beat in the face while turned into a chicken AND waiting out cooldowns.

And honestly it wouldn’t peeve me so much if in order to play a minion master you didn’t have to fully dump points into minions to make them worth having (in pvp at least). So when they’re all dead you’re basically a traitless necromancer. There’s really no need for this hard of a counter. Moa effectively takes a minion master out of the game for about 30 seconds before they can start making any real recovery… 30… seconds. In a game that seems to push for making 5-15 second kills.