Guild Wars 2

So before the last balance patch we had a lot of discussion surrounding Scepter’s auto attack and many ideas were put forward. The devs wanted to improve it, but didnt want to simply add more condi spam to another weapon. From what the playerbase came up with, I’m not certain a good suggestion was found for a positive change to scepter.

Now we’re faced with impending changes to vigor, deceptive evasion, and clone death effects. In light of this I wanted to put forward an idea for scepter AA, and open the floor again to hear more ideas (or rehash old ones) in light of the mesmer as it is, or is very possibly going to be.

So given all that I’d like to propose this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR5iFRRH5SI

An increase to the number of clones scepter AA spawns. Either scepter spawns 2 clones on the third attack chain, or sceper’s aa 3rd chain “fills the empty clone bar” as it were.

This would
A) Be an all around buff to scepter without adding condi spam.
B) Would make scepter a more viable choice for shatter builds- more, easier clones generation = stronger shatter build.
C) Would allow a strong means of clone production without relying heavily on DE
D) Would make scepter a stronger weapon for mesmers using it in general wherever a class mechanic, or trait relying on clone numbers is involved (and again, see C).

Discuss!

How’d you do that?
What wizardry is this!?

A while back while we were brainstorming ideas for scepter 1, my favorite was making the 1st attack (and all clone’s auto-attack) to be a 100% projectile finisher. If that proves to be too strong then tone it down to 50% or whatever.

Lot’s of interesting things happen when you think this through. I gave a lot of examples on that old thread about this, kind of don’t want to do that all over again though, but you get the picture.

Mentioned this a while ago. Have the third autoattack apply .5 seconds of chill. Not much on its own, but dangerous if you get three (currently useless) scepter clones out.

what if the activation time is decreased overall?
a faster base attack.

currently
0.50 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.50 seconds – Ether Blast
1.00 seconds – Ether Clone
wiki says whole chain takes around 3.9 seconds

what if:
0.25 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.50 seconds – Ether Blast
0.75 seconds – Ether Clone

would it help?

source:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Bolt
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Blast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Clone

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what if the activation time is decreased overall?
a faster base attack.

currently
0.50 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.50 seconds – Ether Blast
1.00 seconds – Ether Clone
wiki says whole chain takes around 3.9 seconds

what if:
0.25 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.50 seconds – Ether Blast
0.75 seconds – Ether Clone

would it help?

source:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Bolt
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Blast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Clone

Due to the way it works the next attack in the chain doesnt start until the first attack hits. So the closer you are the faster you attack, more distance = more time. People have suggested unhinging this mechanic and speeding the attack chain up overall. Simple way to buff it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Due to the way it works the next attack in the chain doesnt start until the first attack hits. So the closer you are the faster you attack, more distance = more time. People have suggested unhinging this mechanic and speeding the attack chain up overall. Simple way to buff it.

kitten! i never noticed that!
hmmm yes, removing that requirement and decreasing activation would seem like a good buff for mesmer scepter 1.

what if we speed it up even further?

currently
0.50 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.50 seconds – Ether Blast
1.00 seconds – Ether Clone
wiki says whole chain takes around 3.9 seconds

what if:
0.25 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.25 seconds – Ether Blast
0.50 seconds – Ether Clone
would the whole chain take around 1.95 seconds then? O_O

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Due to the way it works the next attack in the chain doesnt start until the first attack hits. So the closer you are the faster you attack, more distance = more time. People have suggested unhinging this mechanic and speeding the attack chain up overall. Simple way to buff it.

kitten! i never noticed that!
hmmm yes, removing that requirement and decreasing activation would seem like a good buff for mesmer scepter 1.

what if we speed it up even further?

currently
0.50 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.50 seconds – Ether Blast
1.00 seconds – Ether Clone
wiki says whole chain takes around 3.9 seconds

what if:
0.25 seconds – Ether Bolt
0.25 seconds – Ether Blast
0.50 seconds – Ether Clone
would the whole chain take around 1.95 seconds then? O_O

Well there are other issues. Timewarp (quickness) for example will increase cast speed, but not projectile speed. Meaning, while you cast faster, you still have to wait the projectile travel speed before the next attack in the chain begins. So idealy, for multiple reasons, you’d want to move away from the current way it works.

Being a channeled attack makes for an easy interrupt to, which is quite OP and heavy handed for a ranged AA. A perplexity user can spam his interrupts and catch you on a random AA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_XZBrJ1jJQ

i remember having this conversation before at some point. I think someone suggested making one step of the scepter chain a short range aoe with a chance of blast finisher. I dont know how balanced that would be, but it would make scepter interesting and helpful in groups

I haven’t tested this in a while – does the sceptre AA still replace 1 out of 3 phantasms (if all have been cast) on autoattack?

If it does, I’d suggest that the 3rd chain of the scepter autoattack be conditional.

If 2 or less illusions exist ether clone is cast filling the 3rd slot. If 3 illusions exist a new skill called “ether surge” or similar is used instead which does extra damage and applies vulnerability to the target.

Then again, I’m sure this type of change has been suggested many times already.

Increase travel speed by about 40%
Ether Bolt: 100% projectile finisher
Remove Ether Blast
Damage increases by 10% for every condition on the target

That should do it. Now it will do decent damage and synergizes nicely with condition builds.

Shall we start another thread about Scepter 2?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Increase travel speed by about 40%
Ether Bolt: 100% projectile finisher
Remove Ether Blast
Damage increases by 10% for every condition on the target

That should do it.

Shall we start another thread about Scepter 2?

we probably shouldnt start a new thread, but instead just continue to the other skills here and ask the mods to rename the thread. The whole point is to keep everything together so the devs can actually look at it without searching the whole forum. with that said.

Mods could you please rename the thread to be about all scepter skills?

If scepter 2 was a little more responsive it would feel better, sometimes i hit the key and theres a long delay between then and when the block actually goes up. It often ends with me getting hit in the face then wasting my block.

Hell if all the skills on scepter just activated a bit more crisply i think the weapon would just feel better to use even if it didnt actually make the weapon any more powerful or defined

Speeding up the projectile for scepter 1 would be very nice all by itself for me.

Finding a way to add a blast finisher somewhere on scepter would be awesome

For me, the biggest thing is that it stays viable as a ranged, one-handed power weapon (and I consider it to be viable for that today – not great, but viable). I’m guessing most people use it as a condi weapon, but I use it for its ranged aspect in a power build

I dug up the details of my favorite idea for reworking Scepter #1 attack. Here is the link to that thread, lot of interesting ideas in there:

Mesmer December balance updates

Esquire.2809:

A suggestion for scepter auto-attack:

1. Make Ether Bolt a projectile finisher.
2. Make Ether Blast a blast finisher.
3. The Ether Bolt cast by clones would also be a projectile finisher.

• Scepter is the only mesmer weapon without a finisher. Even our underwater weapons have finishers.
• Creates interesting possibilities with glamors, which synergizes well with the Inspiration trait line.
• Adds potential for both AoE and support capabilities in groups.
• Enhances conditions builds without creating a spammy quality to it.
• Gives an alternative (or compliment) to staff as a defensive weapon in holding points in PvP
• The projectile speed needs to be increased or the pre-cast animation reduced, or both.

I think this suggestion is almost perfect, but if the blast finisher on the second attack proves to be OP (as I think it might) then here is my slight variation and some examples of how simply changing the first two scepter auto-attacks (as well as clone attacks) to 100% projectile finishers would play out.

1. Ether Bolt: Shoot a bolt of energy at your target. 100% projectile finisher.
2. Ether Blast: Shoot a second bolt of energy at your target. 100% projectile finisher.
3. Ether Clone: Shoot out a third bolt of energy that damages your target. Summon a clone that casts Ether Bolt.

• Opens up interesting weapon combinations such as scepter/focus by using the light field of Temporal Curtain as a way to remove 2 conditions with the first 2 auto-attacks of the scepter.

• Using Veil in much the same way as above to remove 2 conditions and then stealth.

• Firing through an ethereal field would apply two stacks of confusion solidifying it’s identity as a confusion weapon.

• More varied interplay with other combo fields such as being able to life-steal through a necromancers dark field at range or applying burning to a target unwilling to cross through a fire field (Burning Speed / Ring of Fire).

• The clones would be creating the same effects but since they are usually grouped around the target would serve mainly to reapply chill/burning/poison/blind etc. for as long as the target stands in the combo field. The most powerful scenario for the clones would be standing within an ethereal field as they will be sustaining around 4 stacks of confusion on the target while the field lasts (with 3 clones). Combos like life-steal, regeneration & condition removal will have little impact on the clones and so balance this.

• In dungeons and group events scepter would have more support utility, even if used by a non-condition build. The clones would at least be adding duration to any combo fields put down while waiting to be shattered and the scepters auto-attacks would help keep the mesmer and the team alive (regeneration, life-steal, chill, weakness, blindness).

• Since players in PvP and WvW hopefully don’t just stand in combo fields this change would indirectly help re-balancing PvE with regards to Confusion. More stacks of confusion for NPCs standing in an ethereal field, punishing the mindless being a mesmer specialty.

• Extremely easy for the Devs to dial in the right strength of this after testing by adjusting percentages if needed.

In short it makes the scepter more tricksy and supportive, more situationally random not just RNG. More like the unpredictably confusing magicians wand it was intended to be.

Since it might be helpful to see what Jon Peters (dev) originally posted I’ve re-posted it here. So as not to get off topic I’ve ‘spoiler-hidden’ the two irrelevant points. Enjoy!

JonPeters.5630:

I think the mesmer discussion has been pretty positive overall and productive but I wanted to bring up some points that I am seeing and some new ones as well.

Scepter
Scepter is still missing something but we don’t want to overload the autoattack as we think that promotes more mindless play and are trying to move away from builds that focus so much on the “1” skill. I feel like that scepter should be the tricksy defender that can stop enemies from attacking and defend allies, but maybe it’s single target nature is keeping that from working.

Confounding Suggestions/Mimic

hide spoiler

Confounding Suggestions
We were hoping this change would improve this. I’m mostly seeing people saying they liked the old one. That will certainly be a topic of discussion early next week so I would love to hear some opinions either way in case there is a split.

Mimic
Last thought. This skill is for almost all intents and purposes just not working, but is causing some broken behavior with certain bosses. I would like to replace it with a complete redesign and am open to discussion on that as well.

Overall I think this a good small step for a profession that has a lot of roles it can fill fairly uniquely. I think this might give us 3 strong mesmer build archetypes.

1) Shatter
2) Phantasm
3) Mantra

I think right behind those are the interrupt shutdown mesmer and the signet mesmer, so future suggestions towards those are appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Jon

You might notice that nowhere in Jon’s list of possible Mesmer build archetypes is the Condition Mesmer. This omission worried me then and even more so now with the recent proposals to nerf Dissipation traits. There are plenty of threads discussing this however so I don’t mean to derail the discussion, just thought it should be pointed out.

The most obvious solution is to increase the AA to fire at a reasonable speed. It currently does not. This is actually a problem with several ranged weapons in the game that causes them to be all but unusable – Thief & Engi Pistol in particular.

What about making it summon the clone on the second hit? It wouldn’t be as frustrating as it is right now when you have to interrupt your AA and also it wouldn’t be abusable because you have to wait a short time before the AA resets.

1. Ether Bolt
   - 0.5s
   - Projectile Finisher (20% Chance)
2. Ether Clone
   - 0.5s cast
   - Clone casts Ether Bolt
3. Ether Explosion
   - 0.75s cast
   - AoE
   - Explosion Finisher

I still think it needs some sort of movement or control. .5 sec of cripple or chill on third attack, or maybe a swap with the created clone on the third auto attack.

I’d actually be fine leaving the chain as is so long as scepter clones are given something. That’s why I like the idea of a small control condition added to the aa chain, which would onventivize the creation of multiple scepter clones (which at present are useless).