Guild Wars 2

say what ever you want once it lands its an i win button , outplaying a mesmer for the whole fight suddenly he stealths or switch position or what the hell they do and he wins because he landed a single skill.
give to all classes a skill that turn others into a useless animal and i will be ok.

Moa is cheesy, but it is worth it when you kill somebody while moa’d.

yeah, when it lands on me i win, cuz mesmers that use it are pretty much all baddies
#buffmoa2014

jihm.2315:

say what ever you want once it lands its an i win button , outplaying a mesmer for the whole fight suddenly he stealths or switch position or what the hell they do and he wins because he landed a single skill.
give to all classes a skill that turn others into a useless animal and i will be ok.

Moa need’s some rework. Maybe reduce the duration to 6seconds. Or let the enemy use utilities. Shatter mesmer right now is already god mode without even using moa, moa just makes it even more faceroll.

The problem most people have is as soon as they turn into Moa they just try and run away. The moa skills actually deal decent damage(depending on build of course), one is a 600 leap finisher with cripple attached, and all have a 4 second cd except for flee. It has a 1 second cast time and can be dodged or blocked. It also has a 180 second cd, not to mention it is rare to actually see it in use(at least in Spvp) because mass invis is, in general, much more useful.

Sorry but the last sentence is basically what every whiner says. Make all classes have the same skills and then it will be balanced. Take something that makes one class unique and give it to every single other class. Don’t you think mesmers would love long stability or perma swiftness?

Most of times when moa’d I survive the whole duration or I even manage to defeat the mesmer, specially in the middle of a team fight.
What most players end doing is running away when they get moa’d, and that is why you lose.

I dont get it.

Most of the time when a mesmer Moa’s me I win even faster in a 1v1.

The trick is to not run. Screetch, and peck/kick them down. then strut around them while they bleed out. (<3 ~)

Still, if you get moa’d when your half HP, done and done.

Yes, I agree ith OP. May be some noobs will take this skill instead of Suply create, Lich form,warrs signet/banner, and I will be happy)

Belzebu.3912:

Most of times when moa’d I survive the whole duration or I even manage to defeat the mesmer, specially in the middle of a team fight.
What most players end doing is running away when they get moa’d, and that is why you lose.

i kept attacking him but the damage was pathetic

Belzebu.3912:

Most of times when moa’d I survive the whole duration or I even manage to defeat the mesmer, specially in the middle of a team fight.
What most players end doing is running away when they get moa’d, and that is why you lose.

To be fair it is a death sentence when fighting a few organized players since you lose access to your utilities, block skills, etc. and they can easily focus you down at that point.

In a 1v1 killing someone as a moa is almost as funny as knocking someone off a cliff.

Moa is good the way it is. Oh and, just keep running towards the mesmer and spam skills to try to kill him, he will be ready and halting strike WILL proc and you’ll die even faster.

this is for free from me

when you get moaed click nr5 imidiatly, run away from mesmer, use dodge and nr2 to jump and dodge again if needed

after 10 secs turn around and defeat the mesmer*, youre welcome

*a defeat of the mesmer is not guaranteed

Moa skills are actually not bad. The “nerf” needed is just a tutorial area where people can be turned into a moa and learn the skills. I still remember the days I used moa for the sake of it and was destroyed by good players, so don’t call it a “useless animal”.

Nowadays, moa is only used in crucial moments in team fights[at least, for the full effect], like when a necro pulls their own “I win” button, the lich, and end up having it counter-transformed or breaking the super healing of guards and ele.

So no, I do not always win if I blindly moa. If I moa correctly, then maybe I have a better chance, but it is not an auto-win button in a fight.

And Dudis, I don’t think I’ve met a shatter mesmer who uses moa. Timewarp and Mass Invis are more useful in shatters usually because moa has a lot of evasive skills, making it slightly harder to shatter on. I run moa, again, for lockdown, but it isn’t so powerful that all mesmers run it[it’s actually not that common. Once in a blue moon you’ll see a mesmer run it, and even rarer will you see them use it correctly].

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the enemy

Dondagora.9645:

The “nerf” needed is just a tutorial area where people can be turned into a moa and learn the skills.

mesmer npc at the Hotm

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the complete noob

fixed for you

Dondagora.9645:

Moa skills are actually not bad. The “nerf” needed is just a tutorial area where people can be turned into a moa and learn the skills. I still remember the days I used moa for the sake of it and was destroyed by good players, so don’t call it a “useless animal”.

You actually can test it out. The Mesmer NPC in the PvP practice area will cast Moa on you.

Edit: Anton beat me to it.

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the complete noob

fixed for you

another mesmer that thinks that everyone has to learn to play and everything on mesmer is balanced.
why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against?
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time?

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the enemy

Necro>>Lich
Warrior>>Burst/Rampage
Ranger>>Rapid Fire/Entangle
Engi>>Supply Crate
Thief>>Heart Seeker

Not “I win button”, but the win-rate is probably the same.

jihm.2315:

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the complete noob

fixed for you

another mesmer that thinks that everyone has to learn to play and everything on mesmer is balanced.
why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against?
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time?

why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against? If you can not learn 2 skills of moa I have bad news for you.
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time
1. because only noobs wine about mesmers and cry how they OP
2. they never played mesmers before
3. when they create a mesmer to become easy at Top10 pvp (as they think) they unexpectedly lose 10/10 matches, delete their mesmers and continue cry at forum

but if u kill the mesmer as a moa \m/ ‘o’ \m/ happy dance

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the complete noob

fixed for you

another mesmer that thinks that everyone has to learn to play and everything on mesmer is balanced.
why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against?
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time?

why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against? If you can not learn 2 skills of moa I have bad news for you.
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time
1. because only noobs wine about mesmers and cry how they OP
2. they never played mesmers before
3. when they create a mesmer to become easy at Top10 pvp (as they think) they unexpectedly lose 10/10 matches, delete their mesmers and continue cry at forum

are you schizophrenic?
i did not call mesmer op is said moa bird is an i win button.
give my guardian a skill that turn mesmer weapon into a flamethrower that he cannot use properly and has 60% chance to burn him self and when u die i call you noob.

Just sifting through your previous posts, I’m realizing that arguing this with you will be pointless for everyone involved. You complain about mesmers regularly and even went so far as to claim that thief is not a hard-counter for them. Constant exaggerations, talking about how classes 1 and 2 shot you and stuff to that nature. I think if people are two shotting you and you are having trouble with mesmers as a thief, you’re the problem, not the classes. Thief has a lot of hard matchups, mesmer is rarely one of them.

jihm.2315:

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

Anton.1769:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the complete noob

fixed for you

another mesmer that thinks that everyone has to learn to play and everything on mesmer is balanced.
why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against?
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time?

why is mesmer the only class that needs endless tutorials to fight against? If you can not learn 2 skills of moa I have bad news for you.
and why only mesmers call people noobs all the time
1. because only noobs wine about mesmers and cry how they OP
2. they never played mesmers before
3. when they create a mesmer to become easy at Top10 pvp (as they think) they unexpectedly lose 10/10 matches, delete their mesmers and continue cry at forum

are you schizophrenic?
i did not call mesmer op is said moa bird is an i win button.
give my guardian a skill that turn mesmer weapon into a flamethrower that he cannot use properly and has 60% chance to burn him self and when u die i call you noob.

With big pleasure. 180s cd, 1s cast time, that can be dodged and blocked. Which even will not interrupt an enemy’s finisher.

PU Mesmer, stealth (pick an option), Moa, apply conditions for 10s without fear of conditions falling off, win. If PU Mesmer can apply an immobilize (Sword 3) or cripple (like from the new Sigil of Incapacitation)… lol.

Cheese + cheese = iWin

The only real problem with Moa Morph is it should have a single stun breaker/condition cleanse as an ability (that’s what makes it powerful). Hopefully you don’t have a stack of Confusion when applied …

The skill is fine. It is a long cooldown. It is an elite. It is single target. Take 50 of your time to familiarize yourself with the skills the form gives you, and you will almost never die in moa form. It may be strong, but as a single target elite, it is only OP against weak players.

Moa is only annoying when running from a zerg in WwW because you can’t see every mesmer ( especially if they are stealthed), but let’s be honest, taking a supply crate or any long lasting cc for that matter will kill you anyway. It’s not a fun elite to fight against that’s fore sure, it’s infuriating and kind of bad manners, but no, it’s far from overpowered.

Artaz.3819:

PU Mesmer, stealth (pick an option), Moa, apply conditions for 10s without fear of conditions falling off, win. If PU Mesmer can apply an immobilize (Sword 3) or cripple (like from the new Sigil of Incapacitation)… lol.

Cheese + cheese = iWin

The only real problem with Moa Morph is it should have a single stun breaker/condition cleanse as an ability (that’s what makes it powerful). Hopefully you don’t have a stack of Confusion when applied …

PU mesmer using moa?

HAHAHAHAH

that is a bad PU mesmer.

jihm.2315:

are you schizophrenic?
i did not call mesmer op is said moa bird is an i win button.
give my guardian a skill that turn mesmer weapon into a flamethrower that he cannot use properly and has 60% chance to burn him self and when u die i call you noob.

are you schizophrenic?
i did not call mesmer op is said moa bird is an i win button.
give my guardian

give my guardian

..You have a Guardian and a thief and you cant beat mesmer’s?

Really?!

Guys, it’s jihm again.

Just.. Just do yourself a favor and check his posting history.

On topic: Moa is fine. It can be blocked/blinded/evaded/interrupted and rendered completely useless. Most of the time its only newer players or trolls who use Moa for 1v1s when it’s much more useful for unbalancing teamfights.

Complaining you got Moa’d is like complaining a Necro went Lich Form on you.. except Lich is more likely to kill you. =/

Dondagora.9645:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the enemy

Necro>>Lich
Warrior>>Burst/Rampage
Ranger>>Rapid Fire/Entangle
Engi>>Supply Crate
Thief>>Heart Seeker

Not “I win button”, but the win-rate is probably the same.

All the examples you gave let you still make use of your skills, utilities and have some counters.

lich: remove stability and chain cc, reflect his projectiles, use line of sight,….
most burst skills are ok and balanced. rampage: when was the last time you have seen a warrior using it?
ranger: 1 condi clear, teleport or destroy the vines and you are free. you can reflect rapid fire, staff eles do it all the time
supply crate: this one is close to moa but at least you still have your skills to use,
heartseeker: it is not op,

moa: you cant use your weapon skills, cant use utilities, cant use your class mechanics. without that you nullify the enemy entire build and traits that synergize with the active usage of skills.

Got to agree with Chaos.

The OPs history of almost weekly Mesmer-complaint-threads aisde, Moa might be powerful in 1vs1. It still has a huge tell, can be avoided through a number of actions and the Moa itself – despite what the OP tells – deals a considerable amount of damage.

The only way Moa can get you killed is if you were at a disadvantage anyway. Or you run an extremly glassy build. In which case it probably is a L2P issue. I fail to see how it is an I-win-button.

Cygnus.6903:

Moa is cheesy, but it is worth it when you kill somebody while moa’d.

It’s funny because I remember a lot of people actually being startled when I started to attack them as a moa. The reaction was almost “WTF?!?! it can attack me?!”

xDudisx.5914:

Dondagora.9645:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the enemy

Necro>>Lich
Warrior>>Burst/Rampage
Ranger>>Rapid Fire/Entangle
Engi>>Supply Crate
Thief>>Heart Seeker

Not “I win button”, but the win-rate is probably the same.

All the examples you gave let you still make use of your skills, utilities and have some counters.

lich: remove stability and chain cc, reflect his projectiles, use line of sight,….
most burst skills are ok and balanced. rampage: when was the last time you have seen a warrior using it?
ranger: 1 condi clear, teleport or destroy the vines and you are free. you can reflect rapid fire, staff eles do it all the time
supply crate: this one is close to moa but at least you still have your skills to use,
heartseeker: it is not op,

moa: you cant use your weapon skills, cant use utilities, cant use your class mechanics. without that you nullify the enemy entire build and traits that synergize with the active usage of skills.

Ah, but you see, Moa Morph can be blocked, blinded, evaded, and interrupted. As a moa, you are not in a permanent stun and can actually kill the mesmer or escape, depending on the situation. Mesmer has poor running mobility, with a few exceptions, so this is a viable way of avoiding death.

As for my examples, yeah, they aren’t all-powerful all-win skills. Making them the same as moa. Powerful, misunderstood, and with weaknesses and counters.

Firstly, yes, while moa does not let you use utility, that’s part of the reason it is a 180 CD elite, which blocks your ability to heal or whatnot. If you’re not already low on health, you can use moa skills to survive the ten seconds[not uncommon nowadays]. If you are low on health and in need of a heal, then that’s tough that the opposing player had the foresight to save his elite as a finishing move. However, it does not deprive you of the many evasive maneuvers moa has at its disposal.

So, is moa a hard-hitting lockdown? Yes, it’s an elite skill, it’s supposed to hit hard and give difficulty. Is it unavoidable? No, it has a tell and has multiple ways of failing, which still makes it go on a full 180 second cool down despite not morphing anyone. Is it an instakill or instawin? No, there are ways to utilize the moa skills to survive the whole ten seconds with little repercussion, even putting extreme pressure on the mesmer who used it in the first place.

Don’t be fooled by the weak-mob look that moa emits. It has been balanced[quite recently] to not be an auto-death for those morphed.

jihm.2315:

Belzebu.3912:

Most of times when moa’d I survive the whole duration or I even manage to defeat the mesmer, specially in the middle of a team fight.
What most players end doing is running away when they get moa’d, and that is why you lose.

i kept attacking him but the damage was pathetic

If you are built for cond damage yes I agree, but since I usually play as power build my damage keeps in a decent level while moa’d.
Also your dodge skill works and you have skill #5 to dodge attacks too.

xDudisx.5914:

Dondagora.9645:

jihm.2315:

ok give all classes a skill that is not always useful but once it lands you have a 90% of killing the enemy

Necro>>Lich
Warrior>>Burst/Rampage
Ranger>>Rapid Fire/Entangle
Engi>>Supply Crate
Thief>>Heart Seeker

Not “I win button”, but the win-rate is probably the same.

All the examples you gave let you still make use of your skills, utilities and have some counters.

lich: remove stability and chain cc, reflect his projectiles, use line of sight,….
most burst skills are ok and balanced. rampage: when was the last time you have seen a warrior using it?
ranger: 1 condi clear, teleport or destroy the vines and you are free. you can reflect rapid fire, staff eles do it all the time
supply crate: this one is close to moa but at least you still have your skills to use,
heartseeker: it is not op,

moa: you cant use your weapon skills, cant use utilities, cant use your class mechanics. without that you nullify the enemy entire build and traits that synergize with the active usage of skills.

moa: It can be blocked/blinded/evaded. Not enough? Ok. At moa form you can evade, use leap and “charge” with evade effect.

btw, look at topics xDudisx creates: “nerf zerk mesmer”, “nerf zerk necro” and …“add critical effect to healing”. Can you guess hiss class? Right, guardian.

It is really funny to run a mesmer group and use moa form 1 after another, especially against perma stealth thieves.

We did a mesmer training day in WvW to show people good hiding spots in keeps, shortcuts using blink, and whatnot. Afterwords we ran around in a mini mesmer zerg with tons of group stealth, moa form and enough clones that our opponents had no idea how many of us there were. I think we freaked a lot of people out that day.

Moa is absolutely fine. It is a highly situational single target removal elite that has a high failure rate. “Flee” was actually nerfed because it gave a Moa’d target such an easy escape button that Moa Morph became completely useless.

It’s still very easy to survive in Moa form (especially in WvW) and immediately put the Mesmer at a disadvantage (no mass invis for you lol). Immediately use Flee, then double dodge and Kick to gain even more distance to a a position where you can abuse LOS against the Mesmer. Now kill the Mesmer.

You know, I die a whole lot considering you said it’ll make me win. Might be because it’s such a long-CD, overspecialized, ability. It’s really good at the one thing it does, and it does nothing else at all.

Only problem is, the game is not 1v1.

Honestly been awhile since I’ve been Moa’d, can you break out of it with a stun break? I assume not.

Perhaps it should be classified as a stun so you can break out of it, reduce the duration to 4 seconds, and put it on a much shorter cooldown (60 seconds).

Would be a win all around then.

Yea, Moa should be removed…

It should be an unbreakable, undodgable, instant 10s Stun instead – I always get annoyed when they either run or fight back

/s

Moa is fine… It is so situationally useful and on a long cooldown, with an actual risk of it getting avoided by dodges/blinds/etc., that it is one of the few Elites in this game worth calling an Elite

All the other skills can be dodged, this is not a good argument to defend moa. What if we give a 100k dmg ranged skill for one class with 1seconds cast time. Would you consider it balance too because you can dodge?

The cd is also not a good excuse. Supply crate, lich form, fgs, spirit of nature, tomes, etc.. and arent a press to win 1v1 skills.

All the other skills that can be blocked, dodged, reflected, blinded, still allow you do counter play after even if that lands. If it is direct dmg you can heal, if it is condi you can clear, after moa is landed you have almost 0 counter play. The only thing similar to moa in this game is Ice Bow #5 but you take 50% more time to cast, it roots you on cast, has a much more visible animation and last less time.

xDudisx.5914:

All the other skills can be dodged, this is not a good argument to defend moa. What if we give a 100k dmg ranged skill for one class with 1seconds cast time. Would you consider it balance too because you can dodge?

The cd is also not a good excuse. Supply crate, lich form, fgs, spirit of nature, tomes, etc.. and arent a press to win 1v1 skills.

All the other skills that can be blocked, dodged, reflected, blinded, still allow you do counter play after even if that lands. If it is direct dmg you can heal, if it is condi you can clear, after moa is landed you have almost 0 counter play. The only thing similar to moa in this game is Ice Bow #5 but you take 50% more time to cast, it roots you on cast, has a much more visible animation and last less time.

Lich cannot be dodged, it is a self-transformation and makes the necro able to do 1vX, and the things you listed are also better in 1vX. And as we’ve said multiple times, being moa does not instakill you. What we need is just a better way for people to learn to use moa skills outside of the mesmer in the mists.

Moa is made so there is made to confuse enemies used to countering damage with heals and blocks. However, it isn’t without defense, as it has plenty of evasion, mobility, and weakness to last out the whole 10 seconds it’s active. You can also, as stated multiple times, kill people as a moa.

Oh so now you want to compare normal skills with moa skills. Yes they do so much dmg are so much viable I would like to play as a moa 100% of the time actually.

The only good skill ins 5 because it is an evade and evade works for everyone. The other 4 skills are garbage. Moa makes condi classes use direct dmg, makes ranged classes use melee, make

Fact: Moa is not an “I win” button.

Although I’d be fine with a rework, maybe even make it useful for PvE. There is a lot of counter play involved and it has been proven that you can still win a fight or escape even after failing to doge the skill.

/thread

I’m an advocate for removing Moa!

Instead, we should get this as our new elite skill!!!

xDudisx.5914:

Oh so now you want to compare normal skills with moa skills. Yes they do so much dmg are so much viable I would like to play as a moa 100% of the time actually.

The only good skill ins 5 because it is an evade and evade works for everyone. The other 4 skills are garbage. Moa makes condi classes use direct dmg, makes ranged classes use melee, make

Obviously you don’t want to use Moa skills for 100% of the time, but you only use them for 10 seconds so they’re good enough that even in average hands you shouldn’t be instantly dying to a mesmer because of it unless you were already losing.

The other 4 skills actually have rather high damage coefficients and are all one 4 second cds. One is a leap finisher(which you also could use to escape seeing as mesmer has next to no access to swiftness) and one can apply aoe weakness while another applies cripple. The problem is, most people just see they’re moa’d then try and run. Chaining evades, you can get about 3 seconds of dodge time. But if you say…cripple the mesmer then leap away and evade, you have a much better chance of surviving.

Being snarky won’t prove your point. Just makes you look whiny and unwilling to adapt to anything that makes you change playstyles. As far as elites go, Moa is so far from the best and honestly I don’t think I’ve seen even more than a handful of people actually using it over mass invisibility. Moa might allow you to kill one person. Maybe. Mass invis can guarantee you stomps, can protect a rezz, can allow your team to sneak up on someone and synergizes with mesmer skills in general. It is by far more commonly used and in my opinion more practical than Moa morph. If you’re upset because Moa Morph makes it hard to 1v1, I have bad news for you. Gw2 is not balanced around 1v1.

As someone already stated, like 90% of your posts seem to be asking for nerfs to things that beat you and the other 10% asking for buffs to your class.

Moa also removes all the minions of a necro and put them on cd. This another example of how broken the skill is.

xDudisx.5914:

Moa also removes all the minions of a necro and put them on cd. This another example of how broken the skill is.

It counter plays necro. And that’s more of a bug than anything else. A bug ANet knows fully about, and why it is, and how to fix it. And they left it there for their to be better counter play against MM necros.

Also, where the hell did this argument come from? Like I said, organize your argument before you make a QQ, then maybe you can convince people, but right now it looks like you hadn’t done any research before hand, then you did, and found something else you could complain about just like you did in the post above.

Get all your facts straight at the beginning then QQ.