Guild Wars 2

When I look at the new trait unlock requirements for all the adept and master traits, I feel like whoever decided on these either thought no one would bother with it and just buy them, or wanted people to just buy most of them.

Disclaimer: I’m using the thief traits as an example, but seeing as they kept the requirements all the same for the new grandmaster traits across the same trait lines across all professions, I’m certain it’s the same requirements across for the lesser traits as well if you line them up. I’ll find out later as I’m leveling up a few new characters.

- Sundering Strikes: Defeat Kol Skullsmasher, a champion giant from a level 42 event in Harathi Hinterlands. This would be an okay requirement…if said target wasn’t a champion hidden away in an area 6 to 9 levels higher than when you can get the trait.

- Potent Poison: 100% map completion in Blazeridge Steppes, a Lv40-50 area. Not so much an accomplishment, more like a chore. And once again, higher than the level you should have access to it.

- Venomous Strength: Defeat Rhendak the Crazed, a boss hidden away in the Flame Temple in Diessa Plateau. This one is actually doable well before the level the trait could be used. Unfortunately, said boss is at the end of an annoying puzzle (and is apparently scaled at Lv28 while you’re stuck at Lv26, meaning he can kill you easily)…meh.

- Mug: 100% map completion in Gendarran Fields. This one’s okay, I guess.

- Corrosive Traps: Capture Inferno’s Needle…..in Edge of the Mists. No. No, no, no. WvW objectives should NOT be part of the requirements. At least all the previously mentioned ones could be doable with effort and skill by yourself, now the answer is to party up with a zerg and hope they go there. Bad choice.

- Back Fighting: Complete the story mission “A Light in the Darkness”. A level 55 story mission for a Lv36 trait…..what?

To be continued…

And it continues.

- Practiced Tolerance: 100% map completion for Fireheart Rise, a Lv60-70 area, for another trait that should be obtainable at Lv36. Seriously?

-Pistol Mastery: 100% map completion for Bloodtide Coast. A lv45-55 zone for, again, a Lv36 trait. Not as stupid as the previous one, but still up there.

- Concealed Defeat: 100% map completion for Lornar’s Pass. I’m starting to see a pattern here…

- Side Strikes: Defeat Modniir Ulgoth and his minions. That’s the world boss of Harathi Hinterlands, by the way. Again, for a Lv36 trait you must fight a boss meant for a zerg. After the patch also made world bosses appear less often. Sigh…

- Signets of Power: Complete Twilight Arbor story mode. Once again, another requirement making you party up to accomplish it. Seriously, was GW1 skill hunting like this too? Cause if it was, it was better off gone.

-Furious Retaliation: Find the splendid chest in Earth’s Gap. Eh…ok. It’s doable before the level need for the trait, so that’s fine. Doesn’t seem bad…

And now the mundane realm calls…I’ll be back for more, eventually.

What’s silly is if you go with the purchase all skills and utilities approach, it costs something like 600 skill points to unlock everything. If you level to 80 and do map completion you barely have half the amount of skill points you need…

Yes, you needed a party for skill hunting in gw1. You always needed a party but you could use npcs or heros instead of actual players.

I like the system in gw1 more because you had to steal them from enemies and not by completing some random tasks and the ui didnt tell you where to find those mobs so unless you used the internet you had to find them for yourself.

Atherakhia.4086:

What’s silly is if you go with the purchase all skills and utilities approach, it costs something like 600 skill points to unlock everything. If you level to 80 and do map completion you barely have half the amount of skill points you need…

43 gold and 360 skill points to unlock every trait for every trait line. Add 226 skill points for all heal/utility skills, and that’s 586. Ouch. And that’s for just one character. It’s like whoever came up with these wanted us to run champion farming trains…ugh.

Muchacho.2390:

Yes, you needed a party for skill hunting in gw1. You always needed a party but you could use npcs or heros instead of actual players.

I like the system in gw1 more because you had to steal them from enemies and not by completing some random tasks and the ui didnt tell you where to find those mobs so unless you used the internet you had to find them for yourself.

Where the NPCs/heroes useful in that game? (Most of what I’ve read suggests they were better than the ones here, but I can’t say for certain.) Could you make them do certain skills when you need them to, or did they just act on their own?

And I must say, hunting down these traits from certain bosses like the Unseen Hunter or other tough (but soloable) enemies would make more sense and even be fun. Even binding the unlock requirements to some skill challenges would’ve been better than what it is right now.

I honestly think that the new trait unlocks are Anet’s way to manage the economy (i.e., deal with inflation). My new necro was also surprised to find that the first trait he wanted to unlock was a dungeon some 5-10 levels higher than he was. It comes down to Anet wanting to control the economy, I think.

While I like the idea of questing to unlock traits, I am definitely not happy with how it has been implemented. Those of us who are not particularly good at making money are paying for the sins of those who are, which is kind of how the real world works

Right…I’m back. I was weary and lazy, but not anymore!

On a side note, I manage to level a guardian high enough (since the game won’t even let you look at the trait panel till Lv30, totally a nice change from before /sarcasm), and it turns out the requirements are exactly the same lined up among the traits in their descending order. :/

So, I’ll be using the guardian traits as my examples now, but keep in mind these apply to the other professions’ respective traits as well, so we all suffer.

Still on adept traits. Master ones are coming later.

- Retributive Armor: 100% map completion for Iron Marches. Once again, completing an entire Lv50-60 zone for a Lv36 trait. :/

- Purity: 100% map completion for Field of Ruin. Meh. At least this one’s sort of level appropriate…

- Strength in Numbers: Defeat Victurus the Shattered and his army. This one would be fitting(especially for this trait in particular), were it not in Iron Marches again, the Lv50-60 zone, for a Lv36 trait. So close, yet so far.

- Strength of the Fallen: Capture Stonegaze Spire. Woo, another Edge of the Mists objective! I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again: WvW is not the place to put trait unlocks at all. As it is now, WvW is no place for an up-leveled 80 without access to all of their traits. And making it an objective requiring siege and fighting a champion made for a zerg to fight just cements my disappointment that they went this route.

- Defender’s Flame: Complete the story mission “The Battle of Claw Island” A Lv50 story mission for a Lv36 trait. Sigh.

- Meditation Mastery: Defeat Fleshgrazer. It’s the hidden boss inside the Forsaken Halls puzzle in Dredgehaunt Cliffs(I had to look that up, as I never bothered to go in that annoying puzzle more than once). On one hand, it’s a veteran, so beating it solo shouldn’t be too bad…but it’s in an annoying puzzle. Oh, and the map is 40 -50. Again, missing the level appropriate mark. Seriously, out of all the bosses they have throughout Tyria, they couldn’t find some level appropriate ones for most of these traits?

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

I honestly think that the new trait unlocks are Anet’s way to manage the economy (i.e., deal with inflation). My new necro was also surprised to find that the first trait he wanted to unlock was a dungeon some 5-10 levels higher than he was. It comes down to Anet wanting to control the economy, I think.

While I like the idea of questing to unlock traits, I am definitely not happy with how it has been implemented. Those of us who are not particularly good at making money are paying for the sins of those who are, which is kind of how the real world works

And the sad thing is, it doesn’t even work that well, since the ones with most of the money are the ones who’ve been around well before this change and thus already retain the traits they had unlocked previously. Which was nice, but the trait unlocks being like this for new players is just such an awful way to introduce traits. They just turned it into a bigger currency sink than it was before.

Nilkemia.8507:

Where the NPCs/heroes useful in that game? (Most of what I’ve read suggests they were better than the ones here, but I can’t say for certain.) Could you make them do certain skills when you need them to, or did they just act on their own?

And I must say, hunting down these traits from certain bosses like the Unseen Hunter or other tough (but soloable) enemies would make more sense and even be fun. Even binding the unlock requirements to some skill challenges would’ve been better than what it is right now.

You couldnt control the npcs at all. Think of them like a better version of necro minions. Heros you could control to a certain extent (using skills and giving way points). But normally you could find the mobs in the open would so it wasnt that difficult.

I’d have made it much fairer and inserted objectives much more useful like

- Kill 500 scrit
- Kill 1000 bears
- Kill 10.000 centaurs
-Defeat 10.000 enemies in WvW
- Achieve rank 35 in PvP
- Be in a guild with over 300 members
- Have all professions at level 80
- World completion
- Aquire a legendary weapon
- Buy sunglass on the tradepost
- Drink 500 beverages.
- Complete all daily achievements in 10 consecutive days
- Jump 1000 times in a row
- Solo all paths in Arah
- Capture Stonemist alone
- Go 1v5 in Team arena and win with 500-0
- Jump off Stonemist upper level and don’t die
- Dodge roll 4 times in a row when out of combat.

Much more achievable and meaningful, wouldn’t you say?

Right, where was I? Oh, adept/beginner traits, fourth row down (or second to last).

- Pure of Heart: 100% map completion for Mount Malestrom, another 60-70 zone, for a Lv36 trait. (A moment for a double facepalm is in order.)

- Resolute Healer: 100% map completion for Timberline Falls, a Lv50-60 zone right above Mount Malestrom. :/

- Protective Reviver: 100% map completion for Harathi Hinterlands. At least it’s sorta level appropriate?…

- Writ of Exaltation: Find the grand cheat in Provernic Crypt. A rare level appropriate requirement…although I think you may have to fight a champion to reach it, that’s still better compared to…well, most of the previously mentioned unlocks.

- Superior Aria: Capture Tytone Perch. Another Edge of the Mists, a.k.a. WvW objective. I’ve already typed why WvW shouldn’t be part of the trait unlocks twice.

- Wrathful Spirit: Complete the story mission “A Light in the Darkness” A Lv55 mission for a Lv36 trai—-wait, didn’t I do this one before?

- Back Fighting: Complete the story mission “A Light in the Darkness”. A level 55 story mission for a Lv36 trait…..what?

…So apparently they must switch a few of the unlocks around on different professions’ trait lines, I guess. (Unlike the new grandmaster traits, where they didn’t do that.) Well….go figure. Had to make this a tad more annoying. Well, I’ll just stick to the guardian then for the examples. I might have missed one after all, but I’ll get it eventually.

I don’t really think it’s weird to have adept-traits available from higher level tasks.

How is that weird? I mean it does make sense in a system like in GW2, where you don’t evolve past Adept traits. Why not reserve some for higher levels so even higher characters still unlock Adept traits for more variety in their slot loadouts?

Carighan.6758:

I don’t really think it’s weird to have adept-traits available from higher level tasks.

Good for you. Weird isn’t the term that comes to mind for me. More like annoying, stupid, badly planned, made just to make you buy them (which as I’ve shown, is quite a sink if you plan on getting a lot of them that way).

How is that weird? I mean it does make sense in a system like in GW2, where you don’t evolve past Adept traits. Why not reserve some for higher levels so even higher characters still unlock Adept traits for more variety in their slot loadouts?

So master and grandmaster traits don’t count as “evolving” past Adept traits?

And reserving some for higher levels doesn’t work when most of these “unlock tasks” involve tedious things like completing an entire map zone at nearly twice the level that you should’ve had access to the trait, or world bosses that demand an entire zerg to handle, or obscure objectives that no one would ever bother with otherwise. Seriously, all of the traits I’ve mentioned so far are just Lv36 ones. And expecting people to grind up to Lv60 (when master traits become available) to be able to even start going for some of them is just bad design. It won’t encourage me to go hunt them down, I’d just buy a few that I know for sure are good and just ignore the rest.

Right…bottom adept tier line, then to master traits. Surely it can’t get worse, right?

- Master of Consecrations: 100% map completion for…are you serious…Frostgorge Sound?! They expect people to complete a level 70-80 zone (a.k.a. be frakking Lv80 yourself) to acquire a level 36 trait?! Really?!

No…no. No. No, no, no, no , no!

No one can defend this crappy unlock system. There is no way. Anyone who tries, I direct you to this. It’s now clear to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that whoever decide on these unlock requirements deliberately intended people to buy most of them, or was such a total moron that they couldn’t think of a way to make hunting these down fun and interesting, and just assigned it either to things that people do anyway for things besides the traits, or things that no one would bother with except for the traits! Seriously, I’m glad they at least included the option to buy them in case you didn’t have the time or motivation to hunt the traits down, but when you make such tedious and ridiculous requirements like “Go 100% this map!” or “Go beat up this world boss/castle that people will zerg anyway!” or “Go find this monster/chest hidden away that one one bothers with otherwise!”, you have screwed up big time! Big. Frakking. Time!!! Rraaaaaghhh! Kill. Maim. Destroy!

“….Oh phooey. Brother alt raged off, nya. He’ll be back. Eventually.”

“Sigh, I guess it’s up to me then. Go calm him down.”

I don’t mind Trait Unlocks that are like “Kill XX boss” when they are hidden away, it makes finding some traits fun.

As long as you can unlock those traits BEFORE 36.

A couple examples of good places for trait unlocks.

Queensdale, Beggars Burrow Mini Dungeon (Bad Neighboorhood)
Plains Of Ashford, Human’s Lament Mini Dungeon
Metrica Province, Old Oola Lab Mini Dungeon

These are great spots for Trait unlocks.
1. They are mini dungeons thus can still be solo’d
2. They are low level meaning you can EASILY go back if you feel like getting the trait
3. They are are hidden enough that it brings back Trait Hunting.

IMO, All traits should be tied to Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, and World Bosses. As long as everything can be unlocked before 36, which is when we really start designing our future build.

Personally, I have no hard feelings for that system, I just don’t like how repetitive and similar the tasks are.

Right…I’m back. Anyways, let’s finish.

- Improved Spirit-Weapon Duration: 100% map completion for Sparkfly Fen. A Lv55-65 zone for a Lv36 trait. Yay. :/

- Retaliatory Subconscious: 100% map completion for Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Should’ve known they’d fit that map in somewhere.

- Consecrated Ground: Complete the story mission “Retribution” (Lv59). Maybe if you made the Personal Story rewards better, we might actually care to play it more, ArenaNet.

- Vengeful: Kill the Foulbear chieftain and her elite guards. Another world boss. At least this one’s level appropriate…yay? :/

- Unscathed Contender: Complete Caudecus’s Manor story mode. I am so surprised Ascalonian Catacombs hasn’t made this list. Then again, Caudecus’s Manor is tied with Honor of the Waves as the most boring/annoying dungeon in the game… in my opinion.

Well, that’s (nearly?)all the examples for the adept trait unlocks. On to Master trait examples. After the Frostgorge one though, I’m not sure how they could top the ridiculousness any further…beside having them all be in Orr.

Okay. Master Trait unlocks! (Lv60) Top trait line, then down from there.

Using Guardian traits as examples, but remember, the unlock requirements apply to the other professions’ trait lines/tiers as well (though a few unlocks may be switched between trait lines for some…not sure why they did that).

- Eternal Spirit: Defeat the Terror-Seven Krewe Leader (a champion Inquest underwater in Mount Malestrom) This one might be okay?… It’s almost level appropriate at least, and underwater champions aren’t as painful as land ones from what I recall…

- Scepter Power: Find the splendid chest in Rebel’s Seclusion ( a mini-dungeon in Fireheart Rise) I guess this one’s okay?.. Never been there, so I can’t say.

- Focus Mastery: Complete Citadel of Flame’s story mode. Another dungeon, yay.

- Zealous Blade: Befriend the ogre camp in the Eternal Battlegrounds. This one can be doable solo, provided enemy players don’t just kill you while you’re minding your own business…which is likely to happen. Have I mentioned that WvW objectives shouldn’t be involved for unlocking traits?

Well, I agree the current unlocks are way limited. I also feel that per-trait-thematic unlocks would be much more awesome than the current ones.
But as I said, in general I don’t see anything wrong with unlocking some Adept traits later. Do you really need all of them at lower levels? This might require some re-sorting, granted. For example traits giving runspeed or regeneration or vigor at Adept-level ought to be available early.

But anyhow, as far as more fitting tasks go:

• To get your -fallingdamage trait, survive a fall with less than 25% of your life 10 times.
• To get your vigor trait, dodge X times.
• To get your on-rezz trait, get ressurected 15 times.
• To get your on-downed trait, rally 15 times.

Etc etc. Basically, thematically fitting things.

Second trait line down, right below the top one:

- Powerful Blades: Complete the story mission “Forging the Pact”(Lv62). Meh.

- Inscribed Removal: Defeat the fire shaman and his minions. That tedious three-phase fire shaman? Who can also wreck you in a few hits on the last phase? No thanks.

- A Fire Inside: Find the grand chest in the Windy Cave (mini-dungeon in Lornar’s Pass). Okay. Oddly enough, this one is doable well before 60.

- Radiant Fire: Befriend the hylek camp in the Eternal Battlegrounds. Like the ogre one, doable as long as someone else doesn’t come over and just wreck you. And WvW is unkind to up-levels with few traits.

Third trait line now…

- Focused Mind: Complete the “Battle of Fort Trinity” story mission. A Lv70 mission for a Lv60 trait. Should’ve known they’d still try pulling the “unlock requiring a higher level than the trait itself” trick a few more times.

- Honorable Shield: Defeat the Vidius Flame Tribune (group event boss in Fireheart Rise). Level appropriate, but better get a group first..(it might be soloable, but I’ve never tried, so…)

- Glacial Heart: Complete Sorrow’s Embrace story mode. How has Ascalonian Catacombs NOT popped up yet?

- Mace of Justice: Befriend the dredge camp in the Eternal Battlegrounds…well that’s all three camps, so they can’t pull that anymore, can they?

Welp, time to finish the master trait requirements!

Third row now.

- Writ of the Merciful: Complete “The Source of Orr” A level 80 mission for a Lv60 trait..go figure.

- Two-Handed Mastery: Defeat the dredge commissar (the meta-event one) in Dredgehaunt Cliffs…on one hand, it’s doable before Lv60. On the other hand, the commissar is not only a champion, but is surrounded by respawning dredge, if he doesn’t just summon more himself. Another zerg style event. Sigh…

- Empowering Might: Find the grand chest in Arundon Vale. Specifically, Magellan’s Memento, an obscure mini-dungeon in Frostgorge Sound(Lv70-80). Yay… :/

- Writ of Persistence: Find the chest in Verarium Delves (another obscure mini-dungeon, in Sparkfly Fen this time). Level appropriate at least..

And finally, the bottom master tier!

- Indomitable Courage: Defeat the Branded Devourer Queen ( a champion in Iron Marches)…meh.

- Absolute Resolution: Defeat Admiral Taidha Covington. Oh yay, another boss that requires a zerg to take out! Anyone who’s tried to fight her alone knows why this is stupid.

- Supreme Justice: Defeat the Infinity Coil Commander. Well…it’s doable solo, at least.

- Elite Focus: Defeat Vexa and her golem (in a mini dungeon in Fireheart Rise)…Oh my…an actually reasonable trait requirement? Besides it being rather obscure to find, Vexa’s lab at least is somewhat challenging without being too over the top (from what I recall from the one time I ran it… :/). It’s level appropriate, and soloable too. This is almost a perfect example of what the trait unlock requirements should’ve been like, instead of what most of them are….oh well.

And that’s it for master trait unlock requirements. On to grandmaster ones later…my fingers are tired..

We get it, they’re useless, you may stop spamming your own thread now.

I hate the new system. I am not a pve guy so don’t have a lot of the areas/zones discovered yet. I level all my characters in WvW.

So I have bought one of the traits for my Ele…2 for my Ranger..none for Warrior or Thief. I have a 52 Necro and a 21 Engineer that I won’t finish leveling. I am a semi altaholic but no more.

Such a bad system from such a terrible idea.

arenanet just made leveling that much more boring, that much more grindy, that much harder, for new characters and new players in general.
It will also slow down people learning their profession as traits are out of reach and players dont get to try them out and find their prefered playstyle. Which also makes retention of players harder.

When I saw the requirements I quit leveling my alts. I have zero interest in PvE and having to buy everything is not worth the expense. I will keep playing my current lvl80s and if one day I have enough wealth accumulated I might think about finishing my other toons. The current trait unlock system blows.

This is not a personal interest at all for me, i have 7 characters at lv80 and my Mesmer who isnt was made before the patch so she has all traits anyway.

I dont care for my sake, but i feel this is a seriously poor idea for people who didnt rush out alts or are even thinking about getting into the game as new players. The requirements are obscenely grindy, and stiffle a player’s ability to find his own style and play the way he/she enjoys.

And i feel this game has far to many grinds for new players as it is, to the point that i cannot recommend this game to most of my friends.
I know they wont have the time to grind out a character to 80, then get all skills, all traits, get exotic gear, then grind professions, get ascended gear and then grind dungeons/fractals or 230+ ranks in WvW to get to the appropriate levels.
All that before they can just sit back and say “well, now i can enjoy the game without having to feel like i am at an artificial uneven footing with other players”.

This game is just really daunting to any potential new players.

Velektrian.5491:

I don’t mind Trait Unlocks that are like “Kill XX boss” when they are hidden away, it makes finding some traits fun.

As long as you can unlock those traits BEFORE 36.

A couple examples of good places for trait unlocks.

Queensdale, Beggars Burrow Mini Dungeon (Bad Neighboorhood)
Plains Of Ashford, Human’s Lament Mini Dungeon
Metrica Province, Old Oola Lab Mini Dungeon

These are great spots for Trait unlocks.
1. They are mini dungeons thus can still be solo’d
2. They are low level meaning you can EASILY go back if you feel like getting the trait
3. They are are hidden enough that it brings back Trait Hunting.

IMO, All traits should be tied to Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, and World Bosses. As long as everything can be unlocked before 36, which is when we really start designing our future build.

Okay, so that sounds perfectly reasonable. Why is it the ideas people come up with on the fly are so much better than the ones from the professionals?

Naranek.3467:

Velektrian.5491:

I don’t mind Trait Unlocks that are like “Kill XX boss” when they are hidden away, it makes finding some traits fun.

As long as you can unlock those traits BEFORE 36.

A couple examples of good places for trait unlocks.

Queensdale, Beggars Burrow Mini Dungeon (Bad Neighboorhood)
Plains Of Ashford, Human’s Lament Mini Dungeon
Metrica Province, Old Oola Lab Mini Dungeon

These are great spots for Trait unlocks.
1. They are mini dungeons thus can still be solo’d
2. They are low level meaning you can EASILY go back if you feel like getting the trait
3. They are are hidden enough that it brings back Trait Hunting.

IMO, All traits should be tied to Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, and World Bosses. As long as everything can be unlocked before 36, which is when we really start designing our future build.

Okay, so that sounds perfectly reasonable. Why is it the ideas people come up with on the fly are so much better than the ones from the professionals?

Yes, the idea for putting them in level appropriate mini dungeons and jumping puzzles would’ve been far better…but they didn’t.

Well…I’m back for grandmaster traits..but a side story first.

Just a few minutes earlier, I happened upon a group going for the Forsaken Fortune to reach Fleshgrazer, so I figured I’d tag along. Apparently using the torches you need throughout the mini-dungeon don’t count as actually hitting the boss, because I did do some damage with that (though the group that was there killed it mostly) and still didn’t get the trait anyway for beating it, despite getting the achievement for going through the puzzle. So…it seems that the trait unlocks are not only ridiculous, they can be picky about if they want to unlock, which rubs the salt in the wound even more…

This thread has actually made me far less interested in leveling new/low characters, because I’m not sure if I can stand having trait slots and almost no traits to put in them for thirty levels.

It honestly doesn’t seem like they thought this through at all.
And they said it would be ‘more approachable.’

Edit: Just got my Ranger (that I’d been intending to level to 80) to 30. Took a look at the traits myself. Yeah, that’s not going to happen – what was the thought process behind these choices?

And now for grandmaster trait requirements! I went over the new ones in another topic…elsewhere, but I’ll do those again too. This should hopefully be one last big post, so no spam posting this time.

As before, using Guardian traits as our examples, from top tier line to bottom.

- Amplified Wrath: Defeat the Risen High Wizard at the Gates of Arah.

A world boss right off the bat. On top of it, one that is only guaranteed to appear when attacking the Gates, sometimes during the defense event, but not always, meaning most will just let the defense event fail, while some try to finish it to get the trait if the wizard’s around. This causes friction between players, as you might guess. No good…but then again, none of this was.

- Kindled Zeal: Defeat the Risen Priest of Balthazar.

Nearly the rest of these unlocks are in Orr, now that I think of it. I guess whatever creativity they had ran out at this point and they just said “Screw it, put the rest in Orr! Maybe one in Southsun Cove too..”

- Wrathful Spirits: Discover Death’s Anthem in the Cursed Shore.

Oh wow, not a world boss. I’m surprised. It’s the wrecked ship at the very southern end, so big it shows on the map once you get to it.

Second trait line now.

- Radiant Retaliation: Defeat the Risen Priest of Grenth.

Yawn.

- Perfect Inscriptions: Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx.

Some obscure mini-dungeon/puzzle in the Straits of Devastation. At least it wasn’t a world boss.

- Right-Handed Strength: Complete Crucible of Eternity story mode.

Still no Ascalonian Catacombs somehow. Seriously, even though it would make no sense at this point, I’m still curious why they didn’t include that dungeon as an trait unlock…

Anyway, third trait line.

- Communal Defenses: Defeat the Karka Queen.

Couldn’t forget Southsun Cove, could they?

- Monk’s Focus: Defeat the Risen Priest of Melandru.

That’s three of the temples so far. Gee, I wonder if they’ll use all of them?

- Altruistic Healing: Find the locked door to the forgotten stream.

The one that you can only open in The Source of Orr. Well, I think it’s that one.

Fourth trait line…

- Force of Will: Find the grand chest in the Ship of Sorrows. Self explanatory.

- Battle Presence: Defeat the Risen Priestess of Dwayna. ZzZzZz…

- Pure of Voice: Complete Honor of the Waves story mode.

If I’m not mistaken…that’s every dungeon save for Ascalonian Catacombs and the Ruined City of Arah. Rather odd that the first and the last dungeons got excluded so far…but we’ll see.

Final trait line, aren’t you all glad?

- Purity of Body: Defeat the corrupted priestess of Lyssa.

And that’s all the temples! Oh what fun, reading the map chat of people blasting those who choose to defend the temples instead of letting them fall for the next round, and those who defend to troll the people who do want to redo the chain.

Granted, play how you want and all that…but now the defense events have almost no reason to exist at this point, since the only reason to do them is if the priest/ess respawns during it, and even that doesn’t guarantee the trait unlock while retaking the temple does, and nets you better rewards….sigh.

- Shielded Mind: Complete the Ruined City of Arah’s story mode.

Wow. So Ascalonian Catacombs is the odd one out after all. That’s a shame.

- Permeating Wrath: Defeat the Overgrown Grub.

That one champion in the Eternal Battlegrounds that never gets fought, as far as I recall. Seriously, leave the grub alone! It’s minding it’s own business… Oh and WvW should not be part of trait unlocks. Just keeping that clear.

…Sigh. It’s over.

Sorry for the walls of text and semi-spam posting, but…I felt the new trait unlocks are just such an awful way to introduce traits to newer players, either making them go on tedious tasks that they would do for other reasons, or not at all, or spending quite a sum of gold to buy all the traits, forcing them to pick and choose since newer players won’t be as knowledgable on how to get gold quickly or skill points as fast.

I’m glad they allowed us to reset traits whenever outside of combat now. I’m glad they simplified the points to 1 for every 5 before that. But making the trait unlocks so tedious to unlock, or such a gold/skill point sink…is just wrong, and goes completely against what this game was supposed to be about. So is bumping up the required levels for the trait tiers…they were just fine before…ugh.

Anymras.5729:

This thread has actually made me far less interested in leveling new/low characters, because I’m not sure if I can stand having trait slots and almost no traits to put in them for thirty levels.

It honestly doesn’t seem like they thought this through at all.
And they said it would be ‘more approachable.’

Edit: Just got my Ranger (that I’d been intending to level to 80) to 30. Took a look at the traits myself. Yeah, that’s not going to happen – what was the thought process behind these choices?

As someone who like and plays this game when I can, I’m sorry I discouraged you like that. I still like this game, even after all this crap, because there are still things it does right. But this isn’t one of them. And maybe I’m just ranting on and on, but part of me hopes someone at ArenaNet might read this and think “Hmm, how can we fix this so players will like these changes more?”

But..that’s probably just the tiny optimist in me typing. Eh…so. Any more feedback? Now that I’ve ranted my fingers off at how these trait unlocks aren’t good, what of ways to improve it? I’ve seen a few up on this thread already, but I want to get some more feedback, so that hopefully a better solution to this trait issue can be made that works for as many as possible.

My biggest issue with the new trait acquisition system is that they were lazy and added the exact same requirements for every profession. I expected cool things like “Find this book in a necromancers cave to learn this neromancer trait from him”. Instead we got generic things, mundane things like map completion, not even level appropriate. 100% frostgorge for an adept trait? Are you serious?

The trait missions should have been profession specific, soloable, level appropriate, and most of all, fun. I don’t even think any of them should have been attached to events; I came across a meta event that was bugged that prevented me from unlocking a trait I needed for my build.

I thought this was a call back to the old trait system they talked about in alpha. This was a rushed job. I like this concept of unlocking them, don’t get me wrong there. I only wish that the missions were unique and made to go places players would have otherwise ignored. Jumping puzzles, certain books, NPCs, points of interest, skill points, and maybe even reasonable kill goals like “kill x number of things with x weapon” would have been great. Champion Group Events, WvW Captures, Zone Completion, and dungeon completion were bad ideas. Story path missions are ‘meh’.

Malthurius.6870:

My biggest issue with the new trait acquisition system is that they were lazy and added the exact same requirements for every profession. I expected cool things like “Find this book in a necromancers cave to learn this neromancer trait from him”. Instead we got generic things, mundane things like map completion, not even level appropriate. 100% frostgorge for an adept trait? Are you serious?

The trait missions should have been profession specific, soloable, level appropriate, and most of all, fun. I don’t even think any of them should have been attached to events; I came across a meta event that was bugged that prevented me from unlocking a trait I needed for my build.

I thought this was a call back to the old trait system they talked about in alpha. This was a rushed job. I like this concept of unlocking them, don’t get me wrong there. I only wish that the missions were unique and made to go places players would have otherwise ignored. Jumping puzzles, certain books, NPCs, points of interest, skill points, and maybe even reasonable kill goals like “kill x number of things with x weapon” would have been great. Champion Group Events, WvW Captures, Zone Completion, and dungeon completion were bad ideas. Story path missions are ‘meh’.

(Clapping to myself..)

This post sums up all my ranting in a nutshell. Thank you. While I went into detail (a little too much so perhaps), this post nicely says it in a few paragraphs. Hunting down these traits for each and every profession had so much potential for variety, and it’s such a letdown compared to what it could’ve been.

Nilkemia.8507:

As someone who like and plays this game when I can, I’m sorry I discouraged you like that. I still like this game, even after all this crap, because there are still things it does right. But this isn’t one of them. And maybe I’m just ranting on and on, but part of me hopes someone at ArenaNet might read this and think “Hmm, how can we fix this so players will like these changes more?”

But..that’s probably just the tiny optimist in me typing. Eh…so. Any more feedback? Now that I’ve ranted my fingers off at how these trait unlocks aren’t good, what of ways to improve it? I’ve seen a few up on this thread already, but I want to get some more feedback, so that hopefully a better solution to this trait issue can be made that works for as many as possible.

It’s not you, it’s Anet – I’ve already got a level 80 Engineer, and man am I glad I’m not leveling them now. It’s discouraging, looking over the list of requirements to unlock traits (even just specifically the ones I intend to use), and imagining the endless slogging through to get them while feeling kitten due to the lack – rebalancing of content aside, some of these are in such absurd locations that it pretty much forces particular builds for lack of any other trait options. Don’t want to use one of those builds while trying to unlock what you actually want? Have fun having no real choices in your trait selection, unless you buy them all. I simply hadn’t realized what it took to unlock traits until I looked at this thread.

Also? Screw this ‘Pushed back to level 30 for approachability and meaningful character growth from 30 to 80’ kitten.
We were all new to GW2 when it was released, and I’ve not heard of anyone thinking the system was too much, too fast, and the forums are where people go to complain, so I’m sure I’d’ve read something. Even during the first weeks after release, I never heard anyone go “Whoah, I’m not sure how to deal with Traits,” except in ’I’m not sure how to build for X purpose’ contexts. Or, of course, ‘Yo, this is stupid bugged, how do I work around this?’
Did the playerbase turn into monkeys? I’m pretty sure those could figure out the system, too.
From level 30 on, I was worried about filling out my skill lists, getting more Trait points, and picking up Elite skills, and then it was just a trudge on to 80 when that was done. If there was a lack of meaningful character growth in those fifty levels, it’s because all there is in them is gathering Trait and Skill points, and building up gear. No Living Story has been designed with those levels (or any below 80) in mind, no particular milestones besides Elite skills, Master and Grandmaster trait unlocks – of course it doesn’t feel like there’s a ton of meaningful things happening, there’s really very little changing about the character besides fine-tuning and unlocking of further trait options.
The new system doesn’t change that, but it does make the initial 1-30 slog worse, in my opinion; I’d rather be able to start customizing and fine-tuning my build at level 11. Then I could look forward to my Elite skill, and my Master trait unlock.

As for what I’d do: I’d probably do the ‘thematically appropriate’ thing, as others have suggested, for whatever lent itself to such.
For everything else, maybe actually incorporate racial starting zones – set a few things here and there in areas determined by player race as ‘starter’ traits, to unlock the Adept tier’s traits as they progress toward unlocking the Adept tier itself. Use early Personal Story, particularly racially iconic skill points, Heart Quests, and event chains for Adept-tier traits – leave World Bosses and late-zone Map Completion for Master and Grandmaster.
Oh, and always, always make sure that enough choices to actually offer options would be available before the traitline opened up. Maybe nothing skill-specific, but things that can fit in any build should be available.
Edit: Malthurius also has a brilliant idea, there. Oh, sure, it might involve (gasp!) actual work for the devs, but it’s a great one that gives each class more identity.

I’ll probably end up doing a critique of my own on the system regarding build options and restrictions resulting from the current set of unlock requirements.

I guess there is a chance for a change regarding trait unlock requirements, when Chris Whiteside reaches Level 36 with his fresh female Mesmer on the Chinese server. Actually he’s in the Level 10-15 range, so it still might take a while until we get some changes :p

Source: http://www.relicsoforr.com/?p=3256

The system makes a great deal of sense for a veteran player who could be encouraged to see parts of the World that they otherwise missed as well as use it as a means to drop inflation. That player can use their main to farm gold if necessary for those skills they want but wouldn’t want to do the quest. As the OP mentioned, some are in WvW or EOTM. Some like that. Others hate it. I hate PvE map completion and there is a heck of a lot of those quests for skills now.

Where it absolutely falls apart is the new player that has a primary enjoyment of WvW/PvP. Leveling just became a bigger chore.

I feel like what they’re trying to do is force us in to appreciating their game, which we already do. Like they’ve painted a beautiful picture and they’re upset that we’ve only looked at it for a few minutes and are now telling us any less than a day of appreciation will result in blindness.
They’ve put a lot of work in to the game, no doubt, but unlocking traits should be changed back to the way it previously was. It was progressive and you unlocked them as you leveled up. Now unlocking traits is like… Leveling on top of leveling. You reach 80, and if you haven’t unlocked all traits, you have to do even more leveling. It’s far too much work for something that should come standard with each level achieved.
I recently got a Warrior to 80 and because I decided to do most of the leveling with tomes (which if they don’t like us doing, they shouldn’t have made it an option to do) I’ve come to realize I still have a lot of work to do… I have something like 8 or 9 traits unlocked excluding minors because I haven’t accumulated enough skill points nor done enough PvEing to obtain something that is crucial to my character – build defining traits.
Basically, I understand their intention, or at least I believe that I do, but their reasoning for this addition was very short sighted. If you earn 80 levels, regardless of how you earn those levels, you shouldn’t have more work to do on top of that.

Also, on the subject of what I’d like to do to fix this… Just change it back to how it was… The way it is now is grind in it’s most unfiltered form and that is as I recall exactly what the dev’s wanted to avoid. I can tell you right now that the Warrior I have recently leveled will be the absolute last character I level thanks to this change. There’s no way I’m grinding all that garbage a second time.

Now that I’ve reflected on it a bit, it really does feel like they just made a giant, rushed, sweeping change to try to impress people in preparation for the China release, when what they really should have done to make the trait system more approachable is just add the on-the-fly reset.

Seriously – the unlock requirements (especially for the Adept tier) are utter garbage, causing me to essentially abandon a character I had previously been enjoying in protest. Pushing the initial unlock back to 30 just leaves levels 1-29 boring, with any character customization limited to gear choice and skill bar, and making it only progress initially one point per six levels makes leveling unrewarding, at least for me.

The on-the-fly reset is the only good decision in this entire restructuring, in my opinion, and if it were the only thing that had been done, it would have made experimenting with builds and traits so much more interesting.

So, another suggestion as to how to ‘fix’ it:

• Revert it, aside from the on-the-fly reset button.
• Actually take the time to do it in a way that doesn’t make character-leveling awful afterward.

im so happy i made all 8 classes before 4/15 after reading this thread -.-
(they arent all 80 yet)

I can’t help but think that this is a missed opportunity for growth beyond level 80. Why not use the unlocks to let us access traits outside of the trait lines we put points into? I’ll explain. First, assume that we revert to the old system of manuals (bought with gold only, no skill points) but keep the on-the-fly retraiting; 6 points or 30, doesn’t really matter for this

You’re a 6/6/2/0/0 whatever. Generally you’re happy with your build. You like the stats, you like the Grandmaster, you like how it works with your profession mechanic and your chosen skills. But then you start looking at those bottom lines, and find a few things that would really compliment it. A boost to your favorite weapon, a shorter recharge on that one skill you use all the time, a weapon swap bonus, maybe a handy out of combat trait like speed or (for those who do a lot of puzzles) reducing fall damage. Stuff that you really want to incorporate, but just can’t quite justify spending your limited # of points for this one thing.

That’s where the unlocks come in. You go off on whatever quest, and can access the particular trait without spending points. Now, because you’re not spending points, you don’t get the stat bonus or the minor trait, nor can you choose another major trait without doing that quest, too (though of course you can simply retrait with points as normal).

This would increase build diversity which is what this was supposed to do, it would give us greater customization of our characters, because it’s our choice of a bonus instead of what is supposed to be a core function of the game it’s easier to justify taking the time for these requirements, it doesn’t lock out alts or – even worse – new players, etc. People have been complaining for a long time about no meaningful endgame content. Well, here. Character optimization that you have to go out and earn.

Naranek.3467:

I can’t help but think that this is a missed opportunity for growth beyond level 80. Why not use the unlocks to let us access traits outside of the trait lines we put points into? I’ll explain. First, assume that we revert to the old system of manuals (bought with gold only, no skill points) but keep the on-the-fly retraiting; 6 points or 30, doesn’t really matter for this

You’re a 6/6/2/0/0 whatever. Generally you’re happy with your build. You like the stats, you like the Grandmaster, you like how it works with your profession mechanic and your chosen skills. But then you start looking at those bottom lines, and find a few things that would really compliment it. A boost to your favorite weapon, a shorter recharge on that one skill you use all the time, a weapon swap bonus, maybe a handy out of combat trait like speed or (for those who do a lot of puzzles) reducing fall damage. Stuff that you really want to incorporate, but just can’t quite justify spending your limited # of points for this one thing.

That’s where the unlocks come in. You go off on whatever quest, and can access the particular trait without spending points. Now, because you’re not spending points, you don’t get the stat bonus or the minor trait, nor can you choose another major trait without doing that quest, too (though of course you can simply retrait with points as normal).

This would increase build diversity which is what this was supposed to do, it would give us greater customization of our characters, because it’s our choice of a bonus instead of what is supposed to be a core function of the game it’s easier to justify taking the time for these requirements, it doesn’t lock out alts or – even worse – new players, etc. People have been complaining for a long time about no meaningful endgame content. Well, here. Character optimization that you have to go out and earn.

Basically, if I’m reading this right, exemption from needing trait points to pick up Major Traits in other categories?

…I love this idea. This would actually give level 80s something to do that would matter besides the stupid bloody Living Story. This would give so much more customization and optimization potential.

Carighan.6758:

Well, I agree the current unlocks are way limited. I also feel that per-trait-thematic unlocks would be much more awesome than the current ones.
But as I said, in general I don’t see anything wrong with unlocking some Adept traits later. Do you really need all of them at lower levels? This might require some re-sorting, granted. For example traits giving runspeed or regeneration or vigor at Adept-level ought to be available early.

But anyhow, as far as more fitting tasks go:

• To get your -fallingdamage trait, survive a fall with less than 25% of your life 10 times.
• To get your vigor trait, dodge X times.
• To get your on-rezz trait, get ressurected 15 times.
• To get your on-downed trait, rally 15 times.

Etc etc. Basically, thematically fitting things.

I’d rather not have “Grinding/farming events” like this, and would rather have them be tied to events or actual tasks. Not grinding X actions.

Anymras.5729:

Naranek.3467:

I can’t help but think that this is a missed opportunity for growth beyond level 80. Why not use the unlocks to let us access traits outside of the trait lines we put points into? I’ll explain. First, assume that we revert to the old system of manuals (bought with gold only, no skill points) but keep the on-the-fly retraiting; 6 points or 30, doesn’t really matter for this

You’re a 6/6/2/0/0 whatever. Generally you’re happy with your build. You like the stats, you like the Grandmaster, you like how it works with your profession mechanic and your chosen skills. But then you start looking at those bottom lines, and find a few things that would really compliment it. A boost to your favorite weapon, a shorter recharge on that one skill you use all the time, a weapon swap bonus, maybe a handy out of combat trait like speed or (for those who do a lot of puzzles) reducing fall damage. Stuff that you really want to incorporate, but just can’t quite justify spending your limited # of points for this one thing.

That’s where the unlocks come in. You go off on whatever quest, and can access the particular trait without spending points. Now, because you’re not spending points, you don’t get the stat bonus or the minor trait, nor can you choose another major trait without doing that quest, too (though of course you can simply retrait with points as normal).

This would increase build diversity which is what this was supposed to do, it would give us greater customization of our characters, because it’s our choice of a bonus instead of what is supposed to be a core function of the game it’s easier to justify taking the time for these requirements, it doesn’t lock out alts or – even worse – new players, etc. People have been complaining for a long time about no meaningful endgame content. Well, here. Character optimization that you have to go out and earn.

Basically, if I’m reading this right, exemption from needing trait points to pick up Major Traits in other categories?

…I love this idea. This would actually give level 80s something to do that would matter besides the stupid bloody Living Story. This would give so much more customization and optimization potential.

Yes, that’s it exactly. But just the major traits. And that indeed was my thought, to give a new kind of endgame progression that a) takes some real effort while still being doable, b) offers a legitimate goal as a reward, and c) gives us greater control over how our characters operate.

According to the patch notes, they moved the unlock requirements far more down to lower-level areas. No more unlocking adept level traits in level 60+ areas, for example.

Well, I’m back. Apparently they altered some of the requirements/added new ones. I’m looking at the ones for the thief right now. I won’t bother the trait names, just what tiers the unlocks are for. Perhaps they have differing ones for professions now so it isn’t so generic, but I don’t feel like trying to find out right now.

Anyway…New/missed adept trait unlocks.

(No changes to master/grandmaster unlocks from what I can see.)

- Defeat Captain Jayne of the Jackdaws (Gendarran Fields), a dual pistol champion in an area with plenty of pirates to back him up. No thanks.

- Defeat Sharky the Destroyer (Harathi Hinterlands), a champion shark chilling out in a lake. Meh.

- Defeat the Blood Ooze, an obscure champion in Bloodtide Coast, where all those dead dredge are at. I was never able to figure out the way to that thing before, and this doesn’t motivate me to hunt it down at all. Yawn.

- Defeat the Champion Krait Witch of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls. You know, that one that nobody ever fights because it constantly summons veterans to help it and spews AoE everywhere on the small space you have to fight it on. I’ll skip that, thank you.

- Defeat Gargantula. You remember, that annoying champion spider broodmother that can heal back to full 3 times in the whole fight? Yeah….not doing that.

- Defeat Lord Ignius the Eternal, a very hidden champion in Lornar’s Pass. Nope.

- Defeat the Champion Ice Wurm in Lornar’s Pass (that cave where Scarlets Lair used to be, might still be there, but I don’t know or care.). Eh…I might..except it’s got a bunch of other ice wurms around it, including a veteran or two. :/

So… at least the Frostgorge unlock might’ve gotten kicked out (as it should have). The new unlocks…are better…I guess… still probably just gonna hunt the easier ones and buy the ones I really want. Oh well.

It sounds like you don’t want to do much of anything, Nilkemia.

I can understand complaints about the temples and dungeon opening, as they make their defense events even more stigmatized. I can especially understand complaints about killing the Overgrown Grub, because that grub shouldn’t even exist in the first place. But the game asking you to hunt down and kill a regular champion in the world isn’t too much, I don’t think.

What is your criteria for a ‘reasonable’ skill unlock?

My criteria?

- Level appropriate (since the change, they seem to have tried to do that at least)
- Requires some skill/know how/exploration/something related to whatever trait you’re trying to get.
- Doesn’t feel like a chore. (Map completion, I’m looking at you.)
- Is soloable. That means no dungeons, no Fractals, and no WvW.

Also, none of the champions I mentioned in my last post were “regular champions” They all either have extra mobs around them, or some annoying gimmick to make the fight longer/more annoying.

In the end, it’s easier to just farm up some skill points/silver for the traits instead of performing most of these menial to tedious tasks.

So basically, jumping puzzles and personal story, and that’s about it- But even they could be considered ‘chores’ because some of the longer jumping puzzles are really annoying and you need to slog through Trahearne saying THIS WON’T END WELL.

I don’t think your criteria is reasonable.

They shouldnt be unlocks at all. This was such a terrible idea.

You want new players to get into your game and just enjoy themselves, this system hampers the personal growth a player experiences by pushing everything back. Upto lv30 all you have is unlocking utility skills.

And when you finally get your traits, they trickle in slowly, spaced out with several levels in between. And when you finally get a major trait, you dont or barely have anything to actually put in that slot.
And in order to get these you must perform chores, grinds, often entirely unreasonable as they conflict with general game design.

Just so you can unlock traits, of which there are a ton. The alternative is buying them, but for a new player this means youll be spending upwards of 40+ gold and an ludicrous amount of skillpoints. That even a lv80 with world completion doesnt have.

This then also brings player choice to a grinding halt, as you are very limited in the trait points you have, you have very little choice (if any at all) on how your builds your character while leveling.
And that is obviously going to slow down how quickly people pick up and learn the game.

Throw this on top of the ever growing mountain of grinds (exotic, ascended, crafts, WvW ranks, fractals, gold in general) and this has become a very unfriendly game to new players.
While the exact opposite was the intention.

Terrahero.9358:

Throw this on top of the ever growing mountain of grinds (exotic, ascended, crafts, WvW ranks, fractals, gold in general) and this has become a very unfriendly game to new players.
While the exact opposite was the intention.

True.
Although, in general I like the idea of trait-unlocks, but they should be minor things you get via context. Survive a fall with less than 5% HP, get your falling damage trait. Stuff like that.

But yeah, you’re right. They did listen to player feedback on that one, who keep and keep asking for “more things to work on”. Which is ofc exactly not what GW2 launched with as a core idea.