Guild Wars 2

coglin.1867:

I have to scratch my head at some of the post here. For 2 years, fire fields + blast finishers were never complained about. Now, nothing has changes with this combo, yet this thread is claiming it is Op and needs to be changed? This is a ridiculous thought process.

Hmm, I wonder what possibly could have changed in the recent past, just before everyone decided this was OP? Hmm, I wonder if we could ever figure it out? Hmm, if only it would be possible to revert it or address that, instead of making ridiculous proposals to nerf something else entirely.

While the Fire Field has been the same since launch, it is one of the factors in the problematic celestial builds. This cannot be ignored.

However, compared to Celestial amulet, Runes of Strength and Sigils of Battle, altering Fire Fields would hurt other builds the least. There are perfectly balanced builds that use both Runes of Strength and Sigils of Battle, and other balanced builds that use Celestial Amulet, but really only Eles that have the problematic Might stacking builds, and they have the best access to Fire fields+Blast finishers of any competetive build in the game.

When you consider that nerfing Fire field+Blast Finisher combo hurts everyone else the least, but still succeeds at curbing celestial amulet D/D might stacking, I’d consider that a very logical solution.

If boon stripping were more prevalent, this also wouldn’t be such a problem, but I don’t see eles, rangers, or warriors getting boon removal.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While the Fire Field has been the same since launch, it is one of the factors in the problematic celestial builds. This cannot be ignored.

Actually it quite literally can be ignored. There are other factors that made this a problem. If you change the fields, you will simply cause players to who do not run those sigils+runes, into doing so, just to compensate. If I had any confidence that they would limit any fire field changes to PvP alone, I wouldn’t argue the point. I simply see no value in focusing on the combos, that take, at least some effort in play, to utilize, suffer because of sigils+runes allowing others to accomplish the same thing without the invested coordination on doing combos.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

However, compared to Celestial amulet, Runes of Strength and Sigils of Battle, altering Fire Fields would hurt other builds the least. There are perfectly balanced builds that use both Runes of Strength and Sigils of Battle, and other balanced builds that use Celestial Amulet, but really only Eles that have the problematic Might stacking builds, and they have the best access to Fire fields+Blast finishers of any competetive build in the game.

I agree more with this section of your post. We also need to remember that others blasting team their team members fire fields, with their own blast finishers, do not deserve to suffer a comkittenf on behalf of those other players stacking the runes and sigils.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

When you consider that nerfing Fire field+Blast Finisher combo hurts everyone else the least, but still succeeds at curbing celestial amulet D/D might stacking, I’d consider that a very logical solution.

No, it hurts everyone equally. Teams combo together, and will suffer for it, simply to nerk one single build on one single profession. I find that too hard to swallow.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If boon stripping were more prevalent, this also wouldn’t be such a problem, but I don’t see eles, rangers, or warriors getting boon removal.

I don’t think it would stop the QQ though. The regular forum goes love to spam words like “spam” and claim they spam boons, just like they cry spam for conditions, even thought they refute that direct damage is spammed just as much.

If this is related to celestial which it is,change to a counter spec they exist don’t expect your spec to deal with everything the same way then realize those specs are not conquest meta and in wvw d/d ele is less of threat for obvious reasons . #diversity/conquestlove/squadbalance

This thread doesn’t need to go much farter.

Sagat.3285:

If this is related to celestial which it is,change to a counter spec they exist don’t expect your spec to deal with everything the same way then realize those specs are not conquest meta and in wvw d/d ele is less of threat for obvious reasons . #diversity/conquestlove/squadbalance

This thread doesn’t need to go much farter.

The counterspec, though is “Corrupt Boon”. Which…is already meta for necros.

This thread is suggesting a method of nerfing the overbearing spec while leaving other specs largely untouched. The thing is, since it’s no one single piece that makes the D/D celestial ele spec so overbearing, it’s incredibly difficult to figure out what a good nerf would look like.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sagat.3285:

If this is related to celestial which it is,change to a counter spec they exist don’t expect your spec to deal with everything the same way then realize those specs are not conquest meta and in wvw d/d ele is less of threat for obvious reasons . #diversity/conquestlove/squadbalance

This thread doesn’t need to go much farter.

The counterspec, though is “Corrupt Boon”. Which…is already meta for necros.

This thread is suggesting a method of nerfing the overbearing spec while leaving other specs largely untouched. The thing is, since it’s no one single piece that makes the D/D celestial ele spec so overbearing, it’s incredibly difficult to figure out what a good nerf would look like.

Counter spec not skill a simple condition engi can counter cele, a simple condition thief even mesmer can counter cele….basically a lot of non meta spec can deal with them. Only melee zerkers struggle due to conquest they shouldn’t kite,reset constantly…like in wvw. There is no proper nerf because the circle is the isuue.

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

Power creep is actually when balancing is centered exclusively on the strongest abilities. When everything else is constantly buffed to match the current strongest, it eventually becomes a game of number inflation.

So yes, buffing everything around fire fields would most certainly contribute toward power creep.

Sagat.3285:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sagat.3285:

If this is related to celestial which it is,change to a counter spec they exist don’t expect your spec to deal with everything the same way then realize those specs are not conquest meta and in wvw d/d ele is less of threat for obvious reasons . #diversity/conquestlove/squadbalance

This thread doesn’t need to go much farter.

The counterspec, though is “Corrupt Boon”. Which…is already meta for necros.

This thread is suggesting a method of nerfing the overbearing spec while leaving other specs largely untouched. The thing is, since it’s no one single piece that makes the D/D celestial ele spec so overbearing, it’s incredibly difficult to figure out what a good nerf would look like.

Counter spec not skill a simple condition engi can counter cele, a simple condition thief even mesmer can counter cele….basically a lot of non meta spec can deal with them. Only melee zerkers struggle due to conquest they shouldn’t kite,reset constantly…like in wvw. There is no proper nerf because the circle is the isuue.

A lot of non-meta specs actually can’t deal with them. D/D Celestial ele has great condition cleansing and great healing. You need to manage to pile on so many conditions that poison remains after their cleanses for a condition build to actually counter them. That leaves…two builds. Out of eight professions. One of which is already meta.

Outside of that, Celestial D/D ele doesn’t actually have any counters. It has builds that can match it, perhaps, but nothing else that actually counters it.

coglin.1867:

I have to scratch my head at some of the post here. For 2 years, fire fields + blast finishers were never complained about. Now, nothing has changes with this combo, yet this thread is claiming it is Op and needs to be changed? This is a ridiculous thought process.

To be fair, I think they are a problem in PvE, but hardly GW2’s biggest. Not by a long shot.

If nothing else, I’d just want mobs reacting to what we do. That’d also solve this issue. AI elements like:

• Group stacked and loading up on boons? Spam AE boon rip.
• Group stacked and attacking in melee? Use block move which projects a PBAE attack on getting hit, or start running away while using a cluster bomb like shot attack on the move.
• Players healing on the last possible second? Interrupt then follow up.

Etc.

Black Box.9312:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

Power creep is actually when balancing is centered exclusively on the strongest abilities. When everything else is constantly buffed to match the current strongest, it eventually becomes a game of number inflation.

So yes, buffing everything around fire fields would most certainly contribute toward power creep.

You can literally copy paste something from a wiki and not please some people with your definition sometimes. (Which is what just happened.)

Chaith.8256:

Black Box.9312:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

Power creep is actually when balancing is centered exclusively on the strongest abilities. When everything else is constantly buffed to match the current strongest, it eventually becomes a game of number inflation.

So yes, buffing everything around fire fields would most certainly contribute toward power creep.

You can literally copy paste something from a wiki and not please some people with your definition sometimes. (Which is what just happened.)

Wikis are edited by users, and are thus not always 100% correct.

So one thing that I’ve noticed is that it seems like the only fields people use on the regular are fire, water, and smoke, with maybe light and lightning for wvw. Using other fields on top of these is usually a bad idea, because the blast effects of fire and water are so much better than other fields. What are some ways that we could make the less-used fields more desirable? Here’s one suggestion:

Offensive Fields:
Dark, Fire, Poison- Blasting these fields grants 3 Might (10 sec? 20?), in addition to another effect (Dark and Poison cause Blind and Weakness; Fire gets a new bonus to Blasting)

Defensive Fields:
Ice, Light, Water- Blasting these fields causes an aoe heal in addition to the current effect (again, water would need a new bonus for blasting)

Utility Fields:
Ethereal, Lightning, Smoke- No additional effect on blast. (Ethereal could probably go to any category; I just wasn’t sure where to put it)

With this system, more classes can participate in might stacking and group healing, which are both vital parts of advanced group play. The classifications are based on the general theme of each field and are thus somewhat arbitrary (eg, Dark fields cause blindness and lifesteal; you could make an argument for them being defensive or offensive, really).

Too crazy? Broken? Would it be better to just look at the weaker fields and find a niche for them individually?

Urug.2543:

So one thing that I’ve noticed is that it seems like the only fields people use on the regular are fire, water, and smoke, with maybe light and lightning for wvw. Using other fields on top of these is usually a bad idea, because the blast effects of fire and water are so much better than other fields. What are some ways that we could make the less-used fields more desirable? Here’s one suggestion:

Offensive Fields:
Dark, Fire, Poison- Blasting these fields grants 3 Might (10 sec? 20?), in addition to another effect (Dark and Poison cause Blind and Weakness; Fire gets a new bonus to Blasting)

Defensive Fields:
Ice, Light, Water- Blasting these fields causes an aoe heal in addition to the current effect (again, water would need a new bonus for blasting)

Utility Fields:
Ethereal, Lightning, Smoke- No additional effect on blast. (Ethereal could probably go to any category; I just wasn’t sure where to put it)

With this system, more classes can participate in might stacking and group healing, which are both vital parts of advanced group play. The classifications are based on the general theme of each field and are thus somewhat arbitrary (eg, Dark fields cause blindness and lifesteal; you could make an argument for them being defensive or offensive, really).

Too crazy? Broken? Would it be better to just look at the weaker fields and find a niche for them individually?

I noticed that you only talked about blasting fields. Does anyone ever leap/whirl or call for projectiles?

What’s the counter to combos? Attack the blaster? Boon apply greatly outpaces boon strip/convert. Should the classes without fire/water/smoke fields or blasts get more debuff abilities?

What if you could place a field overtop of the enemy’s field and counter it that way?

All of the people against this seem to be in a rage because it would hurt their pve setups. Which is understandable, but here is the easiest solution ever:

Nerf blasts and/or battle sigils down to 2 might stacks in pvp but not in pve.

I dont know why separate balance between the game modes was never a thing (maybe it would have been too confusing to new players just like leveling was), but it would help so many issues.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Xae:

Ok, different approach:

now you are able to stack 25 stacks of might. This means 875 power-condi damage. Equal to 1750 primary stat.

after the change you would have – let’S say – 17 stacks of might. This means 595 power-condi damage. Equal to 1190 primary stat.

That means 560 less power.

A full zerker build has around 2500 initial power. So you loose 15% dps. That is tough you might say…

But if you could reach 25 in the past you likely will do over twenty stacks after…

20 stacks give: 700 power.
25: 875

700+2500=3200
875+2500=3375

That’s 5% less damage.

So… as I said a 6 minutes fight would last 30 seconds longer…

P.S.: not counting the condition damages here… sure they help…. But in PvE dungeons
they are unimportant…

The problem isnt making fights longer or shorter, but a disturbance within the relative usefulness of skills.

For example, if a non-damaging skill previously gave 3 stacks of might because it was a blast and you nerf it to 2, that skill’s effectiveness is cut by 33%, which means there’s a good chance that it falls out of being useful because it won’t contribute enough group DPS to cover up your personal loss for that attack.

Sizer.5632:

All of the people against this seem to be in a rage because it would hurt their pve setups. Which is understandable, but here is the easiest solution ever:

Nerf blasts and/or battle sigils down to 2 might stacks in pvp but not in pve.

I dont know why separate balance between the game modes was never a thing (maybe it would have been too confusing to new players just like leveling was), but it would help so many issues.

I’ve no idea. PvE and PvP are apples and grapes. In every game.

When the definition of fundamental things like what’s useful and what’s strong are completely different between the two, balancing them together inevitably becomes a mess.

Chaith.8256:

You can literally copy paste something from a wiki and not please some people with your definition sometimes. (Which is what just happened.)

The GW2 wiki has errors all over the place, so… yeah.

How about…

…we just remove all +/- duration effects on boons/conditions since this problem stems largely from the process of stacking for a sustained or permanent effect rather than temporary which is what the whole point of boons is.

And then we can just alter base durations of everything accordingly so that they’re fair and not scaling improperly.

And then we can adjust condition cleansing/stacking rates and effects to fix their ridiculous binary success/failure based on game mode.

So people can still burst with 25 might, nothing gets baseline nerfed to preserve diversity game-wide, it allows room for further growth and development, and boons because short-term bonuses as they were intended to be while conditions require maintenance for sustained damage.

So then we can fix the numbers game-wide and make everything work properly as it should. Food/Rune/Sigil diversity increases and allows for growth for new effects.

And THEN if celestial proves to be mathematically too strong as it is now due to the changes made from ferocity, we can tone the numbers down knowing nothing else needs to change.

It’s like the problem could then be actually fixed at the source instead of being another crappy “low-hanging fruit fix” which in the past have properly adjusted nothing and are why we’re in this problem to begin with.

I think the bigger issue is that these foods provide 40% of something when in trait points the balance is 10% versus 100 stat.

So either the trait return needs change to balance the lines there, or the food needs change to balance it there.

Not sure which I prefer.

…that’s completely irrelevant to the topic, Carighan.

It was in regards to what DeceiverX said about duration changing effects. In regards to the fields themselves, like I said earlier, meh. :P

coglin.1867:

I have to scratch my head at some of the post here. For 2 years, fire fields + blast finishers were never complained about. Now, nothing has changes with this combo, yet this thread is claiming it is Op and needs to be changed? This is a ridiculous thought process.

Hmm, I wonder what possibly could have changed in the recent past, just before everyone decided this was OP? Hmm, I wonder if we could ever figure it out? Hmm, if only it would be possible to revert it or address that, instead of making ridiculous proposals to nerf something else entirely.

For 2 years hambow was never complained about either. Everything has it’s own time and place and rather than discuss everything at length, perhaps better we just discuss issue’s as they present/reveal themselves. This is exactly what is happening here. When it was not an issue it was not discussed, however as it becomes more and more of the meta and is being purposefully build by players. It is becoming a issue that is being seen commonly in all area’s of what little Pvp currently is on offer. You see it in hotjoin, soloQ, Tpvp and wvw roaming. It is currently an topical issue. Much the same as you didn’t see anyone complaining about global warming 20 years ago. The problem was always forming, however it has currently come to head and needs to be discussed now before it gets worse.

Carighan.6758:

I think the bigger issue is that these foods provide 40% of something when in trait points the balance is 10% versus 100 stat.

So either the trait return needs change to balance the lines there, or the food needs change to balance it there.

Not sure which I prefer.

It’s not even that, though. Consider things like Strength Runes. It’s a multitude of effects which when combined make durations get over the top to the point where none of them individually are to really blame.

I wonder what would change if blasting fire fields gave area fire shield.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

For 2 years hambow was never complained about either. Everything has it’s own time and place and rather than discuss everything at length, perhaps better we just discuss issue’s as they present/reveal themselves. This is exactly what is happening here. When it was not an issue it was not discussed, however as it becomes more and more of the meta and is being purposefully build by players. It is becoming a issue that is being seen commonly in all area’s of what little Pvp currently is on offer. You see it in hotjoin, soloQ, Tpvp and wvw roaming. It is currently an topical issue. Much the same as you didn’t see anyone complaining about global warming 20 years ago. The problem was always forming, however it has currently come to head and needs to be discussed now before it gets worse.

You forgot the part about how warriors received some buffs. Then hambow was proclaimed an issue. Fire fields receive no buffs. This is my reason to feel justified that the field ddeserves no nerfs. My suggestion is to change the things that were nerfed that make it an issue.

coglin.1867:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

For 2 years hambow was never complained about either. Everything has it’s own time and place and rather than discuss everything at length, perhaps better we just discuss issue’s as they present/reveal themselves. This is exactly what is happening here. When it was not an issue it was not discussed, however as it becomes more and more of the meta and is being purposefully build by players. It is becoming a issue that is being seen commonly in all area’s of what little Pvp currently is on offer. You see it in hotjoin, soloQ, Tpvp and wvw roaming. It is currently an topical issue. Much the same as you didn’t see anyone complaining about global warming 20 years ago. The problem was always forming, however it has currently come to head and needs to be discussed now before it gets worse.

You forgot the part about how warriors received some buffs. Then hambow was proclaimed an issue. Fire fields receive no buffs. This is my reason to feel justified that the field ddeserves no nerfs. My suggestion is to change the things that were nerfed that make it an issue.

You are ignoring the fact that the only classes that utilize fire fields are eles, engis and wars. You can’t view fire fields as something that all 8 professions use like runes or sigils. It’s quite the opposite.

coglin.1867:

I think it is a terrible to suggest nerfing the amount of stacks per blast AND the duration. Perhaps one or the other, but not both at the same time.

Yes, and that is what we’re discussing. Thank you for your input.

The Game Slayer.7632:

You are ignoring the fact that the only classes that utilize fire fields are eles, engis and wars. You can’t view fire fields as something that all 8 professions use like runes or sigils. It’s quite the opposite.

That seems to be a bit disingenuous. My team mates commonly utilize my fire fields. You are incorrectly suggesting that having access to laying your own fire field equates to being the only one that can utilize it.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Again, this only applies to fire fields. (note, this also could be an spvp only change.)

If you nerf might stacking to say, 2 stacks instead of 3 and cut the duration by 33% from base, this would solve so many issues. (the numbers can be tweaked, really.) The damage from certain specs would be reduced to an appropriate level. We don’t need to nerf celestial, battle sigils, strength runes or classes.

Professions like engi, ele and war are the only ones who have decent access to fire fields+blasts. These are the problem classes. Correlation much? If might stacking via fire fields were nerfed, the problematic classes would be brought in line while not nerfing might for other classes.

Agree? Disagree? And why?

1) I’m not convinced that the ‘nerf celestial might stacking’ bandwagon is correct. It is slow to build damage, it has to continually work to rebuild stacks (and enemies can interfere). It requires a certain amount of knowledge and skill to build and maintain stacks (not saying a lot of skill, but it isn’t faceroll). I would hope the devs would encourage skill based gameplay and situationally powerful builds (as opposed to faceroll-always-OP or nerfed-into-the-ground builds).

2) If the bandwagon is correct, the outlier is celestial. Not runes & sigils that everyone has equal access to. Not fire fields that everyone uses; even specs w/out blast finishers will stand in teammates fields for stacks. You can’t take (for example) clerics + might stacking and suddenly be golden. Celestial works with might stacking because it has so many other stat points in everything – all you need to do is add some might and you have a great build. If there is a problem (and I’m not convinced there is) then it is with celestial.

GreyWraith.8394:

2) If the bandwagon is correct, the outlier is celestial. Not runes & sigils that everyone has equal access to. Not fire fields that everyone uses; even specs w/out blast finishers will stand in teammates fields for stacks. You can’t take (for example) clerics + might stacking and suddenly be golden. Celestial works with might stacking because it has so many other stat points in everything – all you need to do is add some might and you have a great build. If there is a problem (and I’m not convinced there is) then it is with celestial.

The thing is, though, Celestial isn’t the outlier. Niether are Strength runes. Nor fire fields (though the most problematic might stacking builds do have high fire field+blast access), nor Sigils of Strength+Battle. It’s the combination of those things plus the profession’s high sustain abilities that is too strong, which makes reducing the power an exceedingly tough task. No individual part is overpowered (though Fire field + Blast is a huuuuuuge outlier in terms of combo strength), which means an effective nerf is very difficult to find.

However, Fire Field+ Blast is , in my opinion, the best place to start. It is an outlier in power of combo finishers and the typical problematic builds get 3 stacks of Might for 35 seconds per blast. That +30% boon duration from traits and +45% Might duration really amplify the power of an already very strong combo.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

GreyWraith.8394:

2) If the bandwagon is correct, the outlier is celestial. Not runes & sigils that everyone has equal access to. Not fire fields that everyone uses; even specs w/out blast finishers will stand in teammates fields for stacks. You can’t take (for example) clerics + might stacking and suddenly be golden. Celestial works with might stacking because it has so many other stat points in everything – all you need to do is add some might and you have a great build. If there is a problem (and I’m not convinced there is) then it is with celestial.

The thing is, though, Celestial isn’t the outlier. Niether are Strength runes. Nor fire fields (though the most problematic might stacking builds do have high fire field+blast access), nor Sigils of Strength+Battle. It’s the combination of those things plus the profession’s high sustain abilities that is too strong, which makes reducing the power an exceedingly tough task. No individual part is overpowered (though Fire field + Blast is a huuuuuuge outlier in terms of combo strength), which means an effective nerf is very difficult to find.

However, Fire Field+ Blast is , in my opinion, the best place to start. It is an outlier in power of combo finishers and the typical problematic builds get 3 stacks of Might for 35 seconds per blast. That +30% boon duration from traits and +45% Might duration really amplify the power of an already very strong combo.

To clarify: when I say outlier I don’t mean OP; I mean statistical outlier specifically in terms of stat points. That is what allows it to be so powerfully well rounded when combined with might stacks. You can combine might stacks with other armor types for a big boost in power but you won’t get ‘powerful and well rounded’ like celestial does.

GreyWraith.8394:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

GreyWraith.8394:

2) If the bandwagon is correct, the outlier is celestial. Not runes & sigils that everyone has equal access to. Not fire fields that everyone uses; even specs w/out blast finishers will stand in teammates fields for stacks. You can’t take (for example) clerics + might stacking and suddenly be golden. Celestial works with might stacking because it has so many other stat points in everything – all you need to do is add some might and you have a great build. If there is a problem (and I’m not convinced there is) then it is with celestial.

The thing is, though, Celestial isn’t the outlier. Niether are Strength runes. Nor fire fields (though the most problematic might stacking builds do have high fire field+blast access), nor Sigils of Strength+Battle. It’s the combination of those things plus the profession’s high sustain abilities that is too strong, which makes reducing the power an exceedingly tough task. No individual part is overpowered (though Fire field + Blast is a huuuuuuge outlier in terms of combo strength), which means an effective nerf is very difficult to find.

However, Fire Field+ Blast is , in my opinion, the best place to start. It is an outlier in power of combo finishers and the typical problematic builds get 3 stacks of Might for 35 seconds per blast. That +30% boon duration from traits and +45% Might duration really amplify the power of an already very strong combo.

To clarify: when I say outlier I don’t mean OP; I mean statistical outlier specifically in terms of stat points. That is what allows it to be so powerfully well rounded when combined with might stacks. You can combine might stacks with other armor types for a big boost in power but you won’t get ‘powerful and well rounded’ like celestial does.

Celestial is certainly part of the problem. We can agree on that. However, celestial is something all professions directly use. Indirect use of something can be regarded as something that is okay to nerf if it is a problem. For example, fire fields. Only two professions get real, direct use out of fire fields. They are engis and eles. Sure, every profession can get use from fire fields if they help blast it or stand near the blasting, but they by themselves cannot make a reliable fire field. Might from this combo much more dependent on fire fields.

So warrior is already balanced around it and not OP anymore
now you want farther nerf to fire field and some people even want to nerf might stacking and runes.

Watch warrior fall in to oblivion if anet listen to you people and ill be laughing so hard.

Simon.3794:

So warrior is already balanced around it and not OP anymore
now you want farther nerf to fire field and some people even want to nerf might stacking and runes.

Watch warrior fall in to oblivion if anet listen to you people and ill be laughing so hard.

So perhaps Warriors get some buffs to compensate? I forsee small buffs coming to the profession anyways.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Simon.3794:

So warrior is already balanced around it and not OP anymore
now you want farther nerf to fire field and some people even want to nerf might stacking and runes.

Watch warrior fall in to oblivion if anet listen to you people and ill be laughing so hard.

So perhaps Warriors get some buffs to compensate? I forsee small buffs coming to the profession anyways.

Exactly. I would be surprised if they didn’t receive any small buffs in the future.

There was a post related to this which involed a % of their offensive stats as opposed to nerfing fields or anything of the sort. Have to say I liked it a lot more because it made more sense when relating to the builds that abuse this might stacking kitten.

If only this forum search worked for once!

I am very much for OP’s suggestion however I’m skeptical of how effective this would really be. I feel like even after making such changes the status quo wouldn’t change all that much. However I think this may be one of the better options that does not force players to change their play style, which I think is important.

The counter argument being blast finishers are in some way “tactical” and an “advanced strategy” thus it should be/remain more powerful. I find the concept to be a bit silly when all you only need to use a skill in the AoE of another skill. While the counter play is build inherent as opposed to active choices. Although I don’t think everything in the game needs hard counter play the over all context I find hard to buy as a reason to hold back progress.

Why would fire fields be OP after not being touched? Well context. When a lot of the mechanics of the game change and we get more efficient ways to hold onto the buff as well utilize it, it may make the application of the buff come under question.

Wouldn’t this just nerf engi/ele might stacking through tactical use? Leaving the sigils and runes to still be very powerful and not targeting any other means of mighting up?

Seems kind of unfair to pretty specifically target 2 professions like that.

Though with the complaints about might stacking in general in sPVP maybe a 33% innate reduction in might duration across everything would be good? sPVP only though.

Whatever happens it should be sPVP only though.

Jerus.4350:

Seems kind of unfair to pretty specifically target 2 professions like that.

Well, that’s the point. It’s supposed to specifically target those two professions. They are the two professions that everybody is crying about.

Daishi.6027:

I am very much for OP’s suggestion however I’m skeptical of how effective this would really be.

Well, it would be a good starting place. We don’t want to nerf entire professions into the ground, like anet tends to accidentally do sometimes, right?

people will still stack might via fire field+blast finishers as long as they give out mights.

If you remove that and add ..idk… fury instead of might then more people will make even more warriors who will be the only class that can spread might to them selfs and give might to others around them

- see phalanx strength warriors

Nerfing blasting fire fields is never going to happens in my opinion. It’s not a prime mechanic of the game, meaning that you don’t really have to do it, it’s just a mechanic that helps you win a fight easier, but some lower end players may not know or may not care to blast fire fields. This being said anet would do something about the celestial amulet or strength runes before they nerfed blasting anyways.

is called dogging and avoiding the red under line circle where the field blast is at -_-

darkaheart.4265:

is called dogging and avoiding the red under line circle where the field blast is at -_-

Which has zero effect on the Might stacks from blast finisher in fire field…

Seriously, have you even read a single post in the thread?

Most high-level eles and engies don’t even actively blast their fire fields, and just get might from swaps with an occasional fire-field.

Just watch someone like Denshee or Phantaram play. Most of their might comes from Battle Sigil.

What else do the top “might stacking” professions (Ele, Engie, Warrior) share: Fast weapon-swaps to use on-swap sigils with maximum effectiveness….

Fire fields are NOT the problem.

BlackBeard.2873:

Most high-level eles and engies don’t even actively blast their fire fields, and just get might from swaps with an occasional fire-field.

Just watch someone like Denshee or Phantaram play. Most of their might comes from Battle Sigil.

What else do the top “might stacking” professions (Ele, Engie, Warrior) share: Fast weapon-swaps to use on-swap sigils with maximum effectiveness….

Fire fields are NOT the problem.

And yet, with exception of Warriors being able to use 4 on-swap sigils at max efficiency, every profession uses Battle Sigils to the exact same efficiency. The ICD on those is very important. Engies and Eles can’t activate them any more often than other professions, even though they can “swap” much more often.

Warriors can’t use Sigils of Battle more efficiently either, because the ICD is for all Sigils of Battle. What they can do that nobody else can is run different on-swap sigils on both weapon sets and use them all at max efficiency.

Sigils are definitely NOT the problem because nobody can use them to any greater effect than anyone else. Every time someone say s “but they have fast weapon swaps” they completely ignore the fact those sigils have a cooldown that limits activation to being no more often than theives, mesmers, rangers, guardians, and necromancers can activate them.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

BlackBeard.2873:

Most high-level eles and engies don’t even actively blast their fire fields, and just get might from swaps with an occasional fire-field.

Just watch someone like Denshee or Phantaram play. Most of their might comes from Battle Sigil.

What else do the top “might stacking” professions (Ele, Engie, Warrior) share: Fast weapon-swaps to use on-swap sigils with maximum effectiveness….

Fire fields are NOT the problem.

And yet, with exception of Warriors being able to use 4 on-swap sigils at max efficiency, every profession uses Battle Sigils to the exact same efficiency. The ICD on those is very important. Engies and Eles can’t activate them any more often than other professions, even though they can “swap” much more often.

Warriors can’t use Sigils of Battle more efficiently either, because the ICD is for all Sigils of Battle. What they can do that nobody else can is run different on-swap sigils on both weapon sets and use them all at max efficiency.

Sigils are definitely NOT the problem because nobody can use them to any greater effect than anyone else. Every time someone say s “but they have fast weapon swaps” they completely ignore the fact those sigils have a cooldown that limits activation to being no more often than theives, mesmers, rangers, guardians, and necromancers can activate them.

That is partly true. First of all, yes, all professions can use sigil of battle efficiently, the problem is that it is too efficient: strength runes/sigil of battle works so well it is on most meta builds, and that is not good for build diversity. Secondly, you often hear that sigil of battle is better on engis, eles and warrior, and it’s true ! Not only do engis and eles always use it a few instants after the end of the ICD, which is not the case for other classes, who might not swap every time the swap is off CD, but they only use one sigil, while to be that efficient other professions need to carry two, one on each weapon set. These two professions are balanced to be viable with only two sigils, so they have an advantage here. Warriors are even worse: by having only one sigil of battle, they can stack might every 10 seconds, while other professions with two sigils can stack might every 9 seconds, giving them the opportunity to use another sigil on their other weapon set (intelligence sigil, I’m looking at you !). That may explain some of the comments about war/ele/engi and weapon swap sigils.

Everyone but Warriors has to devote half of their sigil slots to Battle sigils to use them at max efficiency. The tradeoff is pretty much the same. Eles and Engineers may not have to use a second one, but they also only get two to start with instead of the four everyone else gets.

And yet, Warrior might stacking isn’t that problematic. Mainly because Warriors comparatively have few boons (rarely more than 4).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigils are definitely NOT the problem because nobody can use them to any greater effect than anyone else. Every time someone say s “but they have fast weapon swaps” they completely ignore the fact those sigils have a cooldown that limits activation to being no more often than theives, mesmers, rangers, guardians, and necromancers can activate them.

I am aware of the ICD of Battle Sigil, for instance. However, Engie, Ele, and Warrior use them more efficiently because they swap so frequently they are nearly guaranteed to use it off CD. Other professions rarely swap weapons the second they come off CD because there is such a high penalty (being locked out of that weapon for 10s) to doing so.

BlackBeard.2873:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigils are definitely NOT the problem because nobody can use them to any greater effect than anyone else. Every time someone say s “but they have fast weapon swaps” they completely ignore the fact those sigils have a cooldown that limits activation to being no more often than theives, mesmers, rangers, guardians, and necromancers can activate them.

I am aware of the ICD of Battle Sigil, for instance. However, Engie, Ele, and Warrior use them more efficiently because they swap so frequently they are nearly guaranteed to use it off CD. Other professions rarely swap weapons the second they come off CD because there is such a high penalty (being locked out of that weapon for 10s) to doing so.

But isn’t that just a perk of the class? It happens in other things as well. For example, in PvE, thieves and warriors have a relatively greater synergy with the Scholar rune, because thieves have a healing skill which gives some of the best constant healing in the game, whilst the warriors high HP and healing signet means it’s easier to maintain 90%+ HP.

BlackBeard.2873:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigils are definitely NOT the problem because nobody can use them to any greater effect than anyone else. Every time someone say s “but they have fast weapon swaps” they completely ignore the fact those sigils have a cooldown that limits activation to being no more often than theives, mesmers, rangers, guardians, and necromancers can activate them.

I am aware of the ICD of Battle Sigil, for instance. However, Engie, Ele, and Warrior use them more efficiently because they swap so frequently they are nearly guaranteed to use it off CD. Other professions rarely swap weapons the second they come off CD because there is such a high penalty (being locked out of that weapon for 10s) to doing so.

So then what if we increased the ICD on sigil of battle to 15s, or just higher in general, are you saying non ele/engis will rarely complain as well since it doesn’t affect them much?
I hope they wouldn’t, but we both know the answer to that.