Nerf Terror, make Necro a real class

Nerf Terror, make Necro a real class

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

It seems to me that the entire class is balanced around this one skill, and that all other skills must be weakened in order to prevent Terror Builds from becoming too powerful.

…but Terror/stunlock builds are against the original mission statement of the developers, and as it is now, all too often, a player first loses control of their character and then dies.

…as a result players have abandoned builds that cannot counter stunlock, and build variety has been greatly diminished.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

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Posted by: Badmon.4503

Badmon.4503

They’d probably Nerf Terror and leave everything else the same. Just as they did with Dhuumfire. Everything was nerfed to compensate for it and in the end they nerfed it and didn’t undo the changes they did to everything else.

Sroy .

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

What skill is it your claiming the entire class is built around?

What causes you to make this assumption? It certainly seems like a very incorrect one to me.

What builds are players abandoning?

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Dude, Terror is not to blame for builds that “cannot counter stunlock” not being viable. Hammer warriors, decap engies, and multiple Mesmer and Thief builds also do that just fine.

CC is very prelevant in this game. Terror has nothing to do with that.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
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Posted by: zapv.8051

zapv.8051

The problem with necros is that as soon as you give them any real sustain they become op because they have way more health then everyone else. It’d be nice if they lowered the total amount of DS necros have, but grant much higher DS regen, and decent sustain traits (i.e. siphons, parasitic contagion, some traits that actually grant boons in the boon duration traitline). Overall, the class far and away needs the most work in the game. There are so many underpowered traits (every class has these, and I think that should be anets main balance priority, but necros have far and away the most), and the two main power weapons are underpowered (axe should be a 900 range weapon for auto and 2 skill, dagger life siphon is too long of a cast and dark pact simply isn’t as good as other classes skills that are similar). Furthermore, the class lacks any team buffs (it technically has group support in aoe boon removal and weakness, but those are far inferior to even a thieves aoe might, fury, swiftness and shadow refuge not even mentioning guards or eles).

Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

I disagree that “real sustain” means necros become OP. The reason is that all of a necro’s sustain has counterplay. Necro sustain has more options to limit/prevent it than any other profession because it all requires hitting or being hit, rather than throwing up a couple of buffs and letting those work.

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

I agree,make necro a real class.
Nerf terror or the runes and passives , don’t care anymore.
Since everone claiming the Fear necro to be op etc etc..

fear necro is a gimmic,bailout because necro can’t sustain himself high tier.
Im pretty sure noone plays power high tier now.

If a profession has to take 3 utilities to be able to survive, something is wrong with the class.
And something is terribly wrong with the class.
For the love of your kittening game.. make necromancer a real class.

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
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Posted by: Liewec.2896

Liewec.2896

i have 2 lv 80 necros and haven’t played terror in months
one is a power wellomancer the other is a MM (for teh lulz)
both seem to be getting the job done!
so to say

the entire class is balanced around this one skill.

just is’nt true,

however i agree with you that alot of the variety seems to have gone from the necro,
too many players are flocking to whatever they consider the current meta build.
terror could use some tweaking, maybe decrease its damage but merge the traits to make it less build defining.

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

I’m sticking with my argument that the class is balanced around Terror.

…and I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be, Terror (fear + damage) is absurd when you spec for it. There is a good 5 ways to cause fear, for a total of something like 12 seconds. You have to balance for that.

Dumbfire was nerfed into the ground because of the “pressure” it added, but they basically made it a skill only available to Terror builds. Where is the logic in that?

So a terror build gets high condition damage, two extra contions (terror and dumbfire), easily 6 -8 seconds of stunlock in 2 seconds bursts, lots of time hiding in DS, and their pets do more damage. I can see why Anet is afraid of necros becoming OP.

BUT, lots of players want necro to be a condition class, one that gets stronger as the fight goes on… but instead, it’s bordering on absurdly OP, with one build, so everything else has to be turned down, and they’re making, that one build, the only viable one as a result.

Nerf Terror, and nerf all the other stunlock builds too. They’re all BS.

And turn DS into a Kit without a time limit. No more arguments about making necro viable would be OP because of their second healthbar…

…take away the second healthbar and make the class viable.

I’d really like to see DS’s main attack scale with condition damage. It’s doesn’t have to be huge damage, just enough to let a condition necro pew-pew away and contribute to fights with condition capped bosses.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Necro balanced around Terror??? The meat bag DS is holding us not Terror, it needs adjustments to sync more with builds other than power.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

Whether Terror is the base of balancing for Necromancers is debatable…

I do know though that the build has been around for (way too) long, and people are getting slowly aggitated by it, both the ones running it as well the ones fighting it… Rather than a well designed builds, it became a gimmick and a race to burst the Necromancer down faster than he can CC and condition burst you down…

I’d be in for nerfing Terror if it means it opens up more and new builds… if not, then meh… we still got hambows…

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Ezeriel, you just lost basically all credibility on necro balance with your latest post. Terror, Dhuumfire, and minions? This has never been a good build. Plus, condition builds cannot sit in death shroud long because if they do, they lose all pressure, in addition to having terrible life force generation. They simply can’t afford to sit in death shroud.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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Posted by: Tao.5096

Tao.5096

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?

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Posted by: Dondagora.9645

Dondagora.9645

Nerfing necro fear/terror is not the solution. More than anything else, I believe the right answer is to make “Support” more viable to play and a good counter to stun locks and CC. The devs began the game with the goal of a new trinity, the Damage-Control-Support Trinity. We now have builds with damage. We now have builds that can control. We need support-focused builds to become stronger as a whole to be able to keep others alive and defend others and themselves from CC.

To restate, I believe CC is working as it should, buff the third piece of the trinity instead.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

If you take away the two passive fear procs (Reaper’s Protection and Nightmare Rune 6 piece), Terror isn’t nearly as bad.

The passive procs buy a window for more damage, build distance against melee professions, and prevent incoming damage, and allow active fears to be saved for offense and condi stacking.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Tao.5096

Tao.5096

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Hammer has animations, necro’s fears do not….

much passive fear such wow so skill

Warrior has loads of KD skills with bigger animations and smaller ones.

Plus, Warrior has great access to stability, where Necromancer has near to 0.
Stun breaks won’t help much, because you can be KDed again and you won’t even run away or nearly dodge.

Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

You cannot reasonably take out the passive proc trait for the necromancer or single it out, and lobby against it. Every profession has an equally defensive and equally passive proc. You must lobby removal of them all, or none. To single one out over the others, in my opinion, is a sign of bias behavior that no one should condon. Why is it okay to target those whose effects you dislike dealing with, yet intentionally not mention those of your main, or preferred professions?

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

You cannot reasonably take out the passive proc trait for the necromancer or single it out, and lobby against it. Every profession has an equally defensive and equally passive proc. You must lobby removal of them all, or none. To single one out over the others, in my opinion, is a sign of bias behavior that no one should condon. Why is it okay to target those whose effects you dislike dealing with, yet intentionally not mention those of your main, or preferred professions?

The bias against it is easy; This passive procs CC’s and can be traited to hurt…

Not just that, but since people have been battling Terror Necromancers for so long, they are becomming more and more agitated by the way the class combats namely Fears…

Then again, I agree… If you remove or rework one, then rework all of them… Out of my head: Mirror of Anguish, Shared Anguish and Transmute… And these are just the ones I can name…

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

I can see you point towards mirrored anguish, but what is wrong with shared anguish or transmute? Your justification you mentioned was that the necros trait theirs ti be offensive, so why change the defensive? I am okay with the defensive procs myself. I simply dislike the offensive of ones.

By the way, do you have a list of the names of this group of players you are claiming to represent? You keep saying people. So if you have permission to speak for them, who are they? I am genuinely curious. As to me, I prefer to speak for myself. Perhaps it would be in everyone’s best interest if you allow “the people” to do the same. Wouldn’t you agree?

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

I can see you point towards mirrored anguish, but what is wrong with shared anguish or transmute? Your justification you mentioned was that the necros trait theirs ti be offensive, so why change the defensive? I am okay with the defensive procs myself. I simply dislike the offensive of ones.

By the way, do you have a list of the names of this group of players you are claiming to represent? You keep saying people. So if you have permission to speak for them, who are they? I am genuinely curious. As to me, I prefer to speak for myself. Perhaps it would be in everyone’s best interest if you allow “the people” to do the same. Wouldn’t you agree?

I meant it more like passive procs, Shared Anguish and Transmute are passives, though like you say on defensive level… Mind you though, Reaper’s Protection was designed as a defensive mechanic, but works as both defensive as well as offensive with Terror and Master of Terror…

The threads about Runes of Nightmare and for instance PHD’s crying thread are beautiful examples of how tired people are playing against this spec… I do not like their reasoning sometimes, but I can see why “people” or certain people, get agitated, myself included since it is “the best spec” to run, yet fundamentally did not change for over a year… kind of bores me…

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Boring=/=broken other spec have evolved can’t really say the same for condition necro. I agree on the runes tough,the fear should have a lower CD and activate on CC,Reaper Pro…should have lower CD and reduced duration.

I am low on expectations so meh play a different spec or variation if you are bored.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

(edited by Sagat.3285)

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

It is only your opinion that it is the best spec to run. As I disagree. To expect a change simply because one tires of fighting against a spec, is unreasonable in my eyes. Though, changing the defensive proc may be an idea, removing it may not be. I don’t thing simply making it so that terror wouldn’t effect it is a good idea either.

The only problem I see with sagats suggestion is that folks will complain about another offensive proc. The forum goers here like to label procs as “skilless”, and speak I’ll of them. Which is fine. The problem I often run into, is that I encounter them in game, and recognize their names from the forums, and they have procs traited, or proc items on, that they blast others for using.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

(edited by coglin.1867)

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

Boring=/=broken other spec have evolved can’t really say the same for condition necro. I agree on the runes tough,the fear should have a lower CD and activate on CC,Reaper Pro…should have lower CD and reduced duration.

I am low on expectations so meh play a different spec or variation if you are bored.

Good thing I tried already… guess, found most of them suboptimal side power, which is not really underpeforming, but still not without flaws…
Even with a condition spec I run something really different from what the “meta” is, but it comes at a price, and I am well aware… I am no 1v1 beast, and neither does my build fit for it…

In WvWvW I run power since it is purely convenience with my gear being zerk and all…

It is only your opinion that it is the best spec to run. As I disagree. To expect a change simply because one tires of fighting against a spec, is unreasonable in my eyes. Though, changing the defensive proc may be an idea, removing it may not be. I don’t thing simply making it so that terror wouldn’t effect it is a good idea either.

The only problem I see with sagats suggestion is that folks will complain about another offensive proc. The forum goers here like to label procs as “skilless”, and speak I’ll of them. Which is fine. The problem I often run into, is that I encounter them in game, and recognize their names from the forums, and they have procs traited, or proc items on, that they blast others for using.

It might be my opinion, sure… but you will feel it when you run for instance Travelers instead of Nightmare runes – you will lose a lot of pressure, and you gain little but some speed… Sure, the latter helps, but it is not something I would recommend myself…
Reapers Protection could easily be swapped with Greater Marks though, or even FitG if you want to have some CC protection… I give you that…

Also, I find it more than reasonable to open up more build diversity because people are getting bored… I stopped playing Warrior seriously a while back because the only thing I could play to be usefull (or when I felt usefull) was Hambow… I am not a fan of this… Yes, I could play something else, be good at it and whatnot, but it is still an issue that these builds overpeform over so many other builds…

Not just that, but look at how slow the meta progresses and how many builds become viable for all the gamemodes… Usuaully the core of any of these builds never change, and neither are options made for new builds to rise simply because they are suboptimal… Even with the recent Ranger changes it is still a question whether Power Rangers are actually viable on high-level play… They got hate, sure, but I have yet to see a huge shift into those…

This is just me ranting though, but I am just not a big fan of small changes in less than a year… Even the April 15th did not fundamentally do enough to open a lot of build variety, if anything, it made builds more defined by sigils and runes, making them overpeforming as well… another issue altogether…

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

You cannot reasonably take out the passive proc trait for the necromancer or single it out, and lobby against it. Every profession has an equally defensive and equally passive proc. You must lobby removal of them all, or none. To single one out over the others, in my opinion, is a sign of bias behavior that no one should condon. Why is it okay to target those whose effects you dislike dealing with, yet intentionally not mention those of your main, or preferred professions?

Just because they weren’t mentioned doesn’t mean they aren’t broken. Yes, engineer’s Transmute trait needs changed; watching it convert fear to stability show’s how broken it can be, especially if the necro is using fear as a defense.

But just flat removing all these procs isn’t an answer. Engineer Protection Injection is a good trait because it doesn’t completely shut someone down or waste a key ability, and is predictable (it will will activate most of the time). Developers need to examine all on a case-by-case basis. Obviously that will take some time. The ones which radically alter the course of a fight and are used frequently, like Reaper’s Protection and Nightmare Runes, should be first to be fixed.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: lorndarken.3702

lorndarken.3702

every time someone asks to nerf a necro a kitten dies !!! think of the kittens !!!

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

Just because they weren’t mentioned doesn’t mean they aren’t broken. Yes, engineer’s Transmute trait needs changed; watching it convert fear to stability show’s how broken it can be, especially if the necro is using fear as a defense.

No. No it isn’t. (see how I can stat my opinion as it were proven fact just the way you did)

But just flat removing all these procs isn’t an answer. Engineer Protection Injection is a good trait because it doesn’t completely shut someone down or waste a key ability, and is predictable (it will will activate most of the time). Developers need to examine all on a case-by-case basis. Obviously that will take some time. The ones which radically alter the course of a fight and are used frequently, like Reaper’s Protection and Nightmare Runes, should be first to be fixed.

What do you suggest? I have to ask because everyone seems so good at making demands or claiming something factually is something, when it actually only their opinion, but you offer no agreeable alternatives. For now though, Reaper’s Protection is the only one that you have presented a reasonable argument for (see how I made my differing opinion appear as another condescending fact, gets old, doesn’kitten

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Posted by: Kahrgan.7401

Kahrgan.7401

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Hammer has animations, necro’s fears do not….

much passive fear such wow so skill

Did you just imply that hammer takes skill?

hhmmffkk… Hmmmffkk.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What’s even more hilarious is that warriors have so many passives I can actually watch youtube while in a pvp match with my warrior.

Don’t call anyone out on their BS, that’s an infraction and a deleted post. —Anet.

(edited by Kahrgan.7401)

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Posted by: Neptune.2570

Neptune.2570

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Hammer has animations, necro’s fears do not….

much passive fear such wow so skill

Did you just imply that hammer takes skill?

hhmmffkk… Hmmmffkk.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What’s even more hilarious is that warriors have so many passives I can actually watch youtube while in a pvp match with my warrior.

He’s not talking about skill. I can evade a warriors hammer. I can’t evade 5 and a half seconds of fear from nightmare runes/reapers protection as soon as I attack.
IMO the rest of the necro fears are fine. It’s those two that are a problem.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I’m sticking with my argument that the class is balanced around Terror.

…and I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be, Terror (fear + damage) is absurd when you spec for it. There is a good 5 ways to cause fear, for a total of something like 12 seconds. You have to balance for that.

Eh, in 1v1 that argument might have weight. The game ignores that 1v1 even exists, mind you. In all game modes.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Tao.5096

Tao.5096

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Hammer has animations, necro’s fears do not….

much passive fear such wow so skill

Did you just imply that hammer takes skill?

hhmmffkk… Hmmmffkk.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What’s even more hilarious is that warriors have so many passives I can actually watch youtube while in a pvp match with my warrior.

He’s not talking about skill. I can evade a warriors hammer. I can’t evade 5 and a half seconds of fear from nightmare runes/reapers protection as soon as I attack.
IMO the rest of the necro fears are fine. It’s those two that are a problem.

Reaper’s Protection is fearing Necro as well.

Broken trait is broken.

Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Hammer has animations, necro’s fears do not….

much passive fear such wow so skill

Did you just imply that hammer takes skill?

hhmmffkk… Hmmmffkk.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What’s even more hilarious is that warriors have so many passives I can actually watch youtube while in a pvp match with my warrior.

He’s not talking about skill. I can evade a warriors hammer. I can’t evade 5 and a half seconds of fear from nightmare runes/reapers protection as soon as I attack.
IMO the rest of the necro fears are fine. It’s those two that are a problem.

Sooo, stop leading off with a CC or be prepared to stunbreak instead? If you get feared for that long, then that’s 3 of a necro’s fears blown, two of which are on 60+ second cooldowns.

As it stands, I don’t think anything relating to Fear actually needs a change right now. None of them are particularly hard to deal with, and Reaper’s Protection is basically the necro’s only defense against CC. Nightmare Runes can be used by any profession, but you don’t see that happen. Ever stopped to consider that maybe the runes aren’t actually problematic? People just view them as such on necros because the necro gets a bit more milage out of them.

Given how easy it is to proc both of them simultaneously while ignoring their effects (pop Stability before CCing, CC from long range, Zerker stance, stunbreak right after CC, instant cleanse right after CC), I really don’t see an issue. Heck, opposing necros can be even meaner and launch a Deathly Swarm right before proccing them, transferring the long fear straight to the defending necro.

@Tao: No it isn’t. Reaper’s Protection has never feared the necro. That’s some other effect (Fear proccing it or Mirrored Anguish)

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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Posted by: Jayce.5632

Jayce.5632

If you take away Reapers Protection, what will you give the necro in return? None of the most vocal oppositionists ever include compensation with their arguments. Remember: blocks, invul, and more stability, healing are all off the table.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

Why would any of that be off the table?

The fear itself, fits well in my opinion, but as was already mentioned, the fact that it can be traited to be offensive is problematic. Personally I am okay with it, due to the trait investment. Though I can see the argument that it becomes offensive. Given necros lack of escape options from a battle, the fact that it fits perfectly in a thematic sense, and the trait investment required, I think complaints are a bit petty. Especially due to the fact that one of the big arguments, is pushing to alleviate the build, based on the selfish notion that some “are tired of fighting against it”.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

(edited by coglin.1867)

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

If you take away Reapers Protection, what will you give the necro in return? None of the most vocal oppositionists ever include compensation with their arguments. Remember: blocks, invul, and more stability, healing are all off the table.

Those things aren’t off the table if we take away terror, and deathshroud’s second healthbar.

To put it another way…

Terror and Deathshroud: This is why we can’t have nice things!

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

Actually the necro has many nice things. Otherwise the GWEN theory would not be so prevalent, and the N wouldn’t be there.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Actually the necro has many nice things. Otherwise the GWEN theory would not be so prevalent, and the N wouldn’t be there.

I would think this is an spvp focused thread, so the WvW stuff doesn’t matter much here.

Also to other posters, the devs have been quite clear that necros will not get any sort of blocks, invulns, vigor, etc. and I would never think that they would take away DS. That’s calling for an entire redesign when OP suggests something much less drastic.

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Nerf Warrior’s hammer first, then let’s talk about Terror.

Hammer has animations, necro’s fears do not….

much passive fear such wow so skill

Did you just imply that hammer takes skill?

hhmmffkk… Hmmmffkk.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What’s even more hilarious is that warriors have so many passives I can actually watch youtube while in a pvp match with my warrior.

This only says so much about your pvp skill level…..or simply hot join hero…
whenever fear will get a huge slow animation going on, then we shall compare them, but now, it just doesnt help you.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

As changes based on PvP have a clear history, and they refuse to segregation them, it is in fact very relavent. Particularly due to the fact that I see nothing in the original post or title that designates this as a PvP based discussion.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

As changes based on PvP have a clear history, and they refuse to segregation them, it is in fact very relavent.

Ok… Are you aware that the nice things that put the N in GWEN have little more than nothing to do with being useful in pvp? Reapers protection certainly doesn’t play any roll in any serious GWEN build.

You’re implying that necro is cool in pvp because of GWEN. Not so.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

make necros a real class

delete terror

still no vigor/+endurance
still no blocks
still no immunes

gg necros no re

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Tao.5096

Tao.5096

@Tao: No it isn’t. Reaper’s Protection has never feared the necro. That’s some other effect (Fear proccing it or Mirrored Anguish)

not sure, but I got a feeling that’s because of retaliation.

At least it happens constantly in spvp.

@Sarrs

inb4 others will post best counter eu:

- but necro has Death Shroud

Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

Ok… Are you aware that the nice things that put the N in GWEN have little more than nothing to do with being useful in pvp?

No one is aware of it. Simply because it is not entirely true.

Reapers protection certainly doesn’t play any roll in any serious GWEN build.

No one suggested it did. I addressed multiple points previously. You are simply blending the comments together or over looked that I was addressing different points.

You’re implying that necro is cool in pvp because of GWEN. Not so.

No. I am not implying anything of the sort. Although it is true, some of what makes them valuable in the GWEN theory is what makes them cool in PvP, I was making separate statements. I was fairly specific in what I said, I am genuinely curious how you were so confused by it. What I did say was that GWEN shows that the necro is very valuable. I separately stated that the devs do not segregate PvP, WvW, and PvE in terms of balance changes.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I would think this is an spvp focused thread, so the WvW stuff doesn’t matter much here.

Well then why nerf useful traits for a minority game mode?

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

If a profession has to take 3 utilities to be able to survive, something is wrong with the class.

basically every class takes 3 utilities to survive, and last I checked, necro is actually the ONLY one that doesnt. power wells + corrupt boon/sig of spite

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Necro has access to blind,chill,protection,siphon,weakness,parasitic contagion,great regen wich are held back by DS. Terror and fear are designed to create windows I still can’t see it holding the sustain and damage output of necro the dark green meat bag is.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

(edited by Sagat.3285)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

To be fair, siphons aren’t really held back by death shroud from being good, that’s just the final nail in the coffin.

Also, Necro blinds are actually quite weak outside of Plague. Deathly Swarm is a slow projectile, Signet of Spite is a 3/4 second cast, Haunt has a 2 second delay, and Well of Darkness is easily just walked out of, plus has a long cooldown. Necro blinds can’t be used to stop particular attacks. They have good access to the condition. but characteristics of the skills that apply it prevent it from being a defense.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

If you take away Reapers Protection, what will you give the necro in return? None of the most vocal oppositionists ever include compensation with their arguments. Remember: blocks, invul, and more stability, healing are all off the table.

Pointing out problems is relatively easier than fixing them. If we point out problems, they’re more likely to fixed by developers. But when it comes to solutions, most players don’t have as much time to invest into that process as developers have – it’s their job after all. Further, when players start suggesting changes, it often dilutes threads since ideas are typically rough at best or fall into the category of “nerf my enemies, make me unstoppable”.

So here’s my two minutes of thinking on it: To make it less broken, you want to reduce the effect and reduce the cooldown. I would cut the fear duration to 1 second – enough to interrupt someone, negate a chunk of their CC, and build a little room, but not enough to turn around and drop conditions on people, even with Master of Terror. It also cuts down damage from Terror. Further, I would put some kind of condition on it like being below a health threshold or being in deathshroud. Then you could drop the cooldown a to something like 20 or 30 seconds.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

Another solution people have conjured is giving traited passives, or runes/sigils a tell like Sigil of Doom/Intelligence have at the moment…

It still would be a proper defense system, and probaby a bit more reliable for the end user since he willl know when to dodge or when it is safe to take the hit; while more clever opponents will not feel screwed over because they can counterplay it – this would be a good thing for not just Reaper’s Protection, but also things like Transmute and Mirror of Anguish for instance…
To compensate though, maybe you could rework these traits to be more frequent…

The element of surprise is what makes people aggitated more than often, and I can see why – it is not as much fun to get “screwed over” by RNG just because the dice have fallen on the wrong numbers… I mean, that sure gets me more than often :P

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I like the idea of giving warnings but then I’d really want to reduce the complexity space. I don’think the the game benefits from having everyone have a dozen procs with icons to process, each with only seconds of duration, leading to lots of sensory spam.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

I like the idea of giving warnings but then I’d really want to reduce the complexity space. I don’think the the game benefits from having everyone have a dozen procs with icons to process, each with only seconds of duration, leading to lots of sensory spam.

True, this game is mostly designed to not watch the UI, but the characters instead… focussing on both, especially if you are man (multitasking :P ) is kinda tough sometimes…

It could be a visual tell as well though, like a subtle Aura or a flying orb around the character like you had in GW1 with some skills (I might record some of that to let people know what I mean) – this will once more keep the focus on the opponent, and not on the UI

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