Guild Wars 2

Jzaku.9765:

eleshazar.6902:

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

I took the time to prove you wrong because you really disgust me with your hyperbole.
“But if you compare [build that is clearly meant to kill people] with [build that is clearly NOT meant to kill people] they do so much more damage!”

Except if a warrior was traited exactly the same way as a bunker guardian its pretty much the same damage. However much you want to delude yourself into thinking your average bruiser warrior build is just as tanky as a bunker guardian it still remains, factually, completely false.

You do realize that attaching some random combat sample from hitting a heavy golem in pvp means nothing right…

A) We have no clue what you were wearing (if anything at all) besides your word.
B) Damage scales differently in PvP than PvE/WvW
C) We have no clue if you put on any traits, or what they were in
D) Did you use all of your massive damage boosting skills? Sig of Rage, FGJ, Banners, etc?

What we can tell from your graph tells us that you only auto attacked…. Where was the glorious HB or are you afraid of what those numbers might have looked like?

Where was the condi damage from the sword, or again afraid of what that might look like?

And of course no one here is arguing that the auto attack on Warriors is OP we are arguing all damage in general is. So having your auto attack hit on hammer for 1k just proves my point…. When I referenced 800 crit on guard I’m talking the max using whirling wrath.

Simply showing some numbers associated with Warrior skills really tells no one anything without context. The only thing we know is that you equipped different weps, which ironically in PvP doesn’t mean that you even had any stats on yourself.

You are so biased it makes me want to laugh…. Sad thing is you may honestly believe in what you are saying.

eleshazar.6902:

fellyn.5083:

eleshazar.6902:

Jzaku.9765:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Totally agreed with this

Other classess make decisions to go either damage focused build or either tanky focused build. Which means if u go dps u gotta give up on defensive stats and if u go tanky build u gotta give up on offensive stats.. but look at Warriors? they can be tanky as hell while doing extremely high damage output without SACRIFICING any offensive nor defensive stats + DONT FORGET THEIR mobility as well.

“Btw Warriors can be beaten by well players” I agree with this. BUT Warriors have huge advantage having high mobility high damage/high bunkering stats which means you can beat them if u are a “good player” that knows what to do. Which tells u that even noob warriors can outplay other classess without requiring skills, but other players on different professions need certain amount of knowledge/understanding of that professions and skills to beat Warriors which is just unfair? and think about it which class will have advantage, if the player have the equal skills/control and understanding of the profession plays warrior or any other classess? its a fact that if the controller/player has the equal knowledge and skills, result will be determined by the profession’s items/stats. and right now which class got the highest hp/toughness/mobility while doing massive damage and tanks like truck? WARRIORS?

u are saying this is not OP?

Right, because going 20 into Defense traitline for Cleansing Ire, 30 if using Hammer, and taking a minimum of 2 Stances, which are clearly defensive utilities, is not sacrificing any offensive ability at all.

I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that there was a time when Ele was considered top tier and warriors were rock bottom. HP and Armour mean absolutely nothing. Warrior passive healing and cleansing could take a hit or two, but by no means are they earth-shakingly fundamentally OP by design.

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Warrior has none of the defensive tools that guardians have though. If guardians want to do damage and be tanky then they’ll have to give up their protection and aegis.

You act like each class should behave exactly the same. It would be helpful if you stop comparing in a 1v1 scenario because that’s not how anet does it and that’s not how the game is played.

Here comes the warrior “Protection and Aegis” thing again. For the record: “As a guardian I HATE those.” I would give them up in a heartbeat and give them to warriors. Aegis blocks 1 attack and can be shattered by even 1 dmg. I can trigger aegis once every 80 seconds on command which is the only time it is useful. ONCE EVERY 80 seconds. And you call that useful….

And as for protection… Unless you run hammer or mace/shield you have one skill that grants you protection, and it lasts for a few seconds. 33% damage reduction (not condi reduction) for a few seconds only if running a very specific build. Yup super useful. Try playing a class other than faceroll warrior before you call certain things equal. I would give up those two near useless things for your: high health, great condi cleanse, high damage, healing signet, regen adrenaline.

So please just stop…. I have both a warrior and a guardian, and I can literally smash my head on the keyboard and win with a warrior.

1. Aegis is extremely useful. If someone is finding their on command aegis is being removed by attacks doing 1 dmg, then maybe they should time them a bit better in future.
2. You can trigger it “on demand” more than once every 80 seconds.
3. Hammer spam alone provides plenty of prot uptime.
4. Outside of hammer/mace/shield, more than one skill provides protection.

make HS work only when attacking someone like signet of malice
put ICD on cleaninsing ire
put adrenal heal on grandmaster

make warriors less passive :/

eleshazar.6902:

fellyn.5083:

eleshazar.6902:

Jzaku.9765:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Totally agreed with this

Other classess make decisions to go either damage focused build or either tanky focused build. Which means if u go dps u gotta give up on defensive stats and if u go tanky build u gotta give up on offensive stats.. but look at Warriors? they can be tanky as hell while doing extremely high damage output without SACRIFICING any offensive nor defensive stats + DONT FORGET THEIR mobility as well.

“Btw Warriors can be beaten by well players” I agree with this. BUT Warriors have huge advantage having high mobility high damage/high bunkering stats which means you can beat them if u are a “good player” that knows what to do. Which tells u that even noob warriors can outplay other classess without requiring skills, but other players on different professions need certain amount of knowledge/understanding of that professions and skills to beat Warriors which is just unfair? and think about it which class will have advantage, if the player have the equal skills/control and understanding of the profession plays warrior or any other classess? its a fact that if the controller/player has the equal knowledge and skills, result will be determined by the profession’s items/stats. and right now which class got the highest hp/toughness/mobility while doing massive damage and tanks like truck? WARRIORS?

u are saying this is not OP?

Right, because going 20 into Defense traitline for Cleansing Ire, 30 if using Hammer, and taking a minimum of 2 Stances, which are clearly defensive utilities, is not sacrificing any offensive ability at all.

I would just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that there was a time when Ele was considered top tier and warriors were rock bottom. HP and Armour mean absolutely nothing. Warrior passive healing and cleansing could take a hit or two, but by no means are they earth-shakingly fundamentally OP by design.

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Warrior has none of the defensive tools that guardians have though. If guardians want to do damage and be tanky then they’ll have to give up their protection and aegis.

You act like each class should behave exactly the same. It would be helpful if you stop comparing in a 1v1 scenario because that’s not how anet does it and that’s not how the game is played.

Here comes the warrior “Protection and Aegis” thing again. For the record: “As a guardian I HATE those.” I would give them up in a heartbeat and give them to warriors. Aegis blocks 1 attack and can be shattered by even 1 dmg. I can trigger aegis once every 80 seconds on command which is the only time it is useful. ONCE EVERY 80 seconds. And you call that useful….

And as for protection… Unless you run hammer or mace/shield you have one skill that grants you protection, and it lasts for a few seconds. 33% damage reduction (not condi reduction) for a few seconds only if running a very specific build. Yup super useful. Try playing a class other than faceroll warrior before you call certain things equal. I would give up those two near useless things for your: high health, great condi cleanse, high damage, healing signet, regen adrenaline.

So please just stop…. I have both a warrior and a guardian, and I can literally smash my head on the keyboard and win with a warrior.

You typed all of that and still missed the point completely. Good job.

I can pretty much beat some warriors. But most of the time, it’s because the warrior isn’t using hambow and healing signet..

Well ANet has said, that you can play your class the way you want. The only class who is matching this statement is the warrior. However in my estimation, if you would raise all classes to the level of the warrior, all classes would become some sort of powerhouse, which would turn PvP into onehit kill battles, which obviously wouldn’t be funny. It would be way easier to tone the warrior down a bit instead of buffing all other classes.

That added a great deal of quality, thought provoking information to the debate. Well done.

hooma.9642:

@bobomb.5209
- dogged march delievers free regen. in a group fight are a lot of soft cc flying around. that adds to healing signet and adrenalin regen
- you should play without cleansing ire like me to actual knowing its power. it delievers enough regen esp in a group fight where all the aoe can be devasting
- another src of adrenalin regen comes from zerkerstance, but unless cleansing ire its not 24/7/365
- a zerkerwarrior with 30 in defense can in this meta also take many hits.

if my suggestions are to small so why u are against it? if it doesnt change anything why be against it? as i said, removing adrenalin on cleansing ire just brings back adrenalinmanagement as needed skill. on warrior that can manage that nothing change. but u will notice as soon as u fight against a good oponennt who knows what to dodge your time to spam burst will be harder.

all in all even if this changes are too small i think its a better start to shave warrior with this + the 8% on healing signet then any major nerfs like removing cleansing ire.

- I was talking about Cleansing Ire, not Dogged March
- I do play without Cleansing Ire, my typical build is 30/0/10/0/30
- I will admit I don’t understand what you are saying here.
- If the warrior went 30 into defense he is not a zerk warrior.

I am against your small suggestions because they do nothing but waste time. Should a developer even think about implementing what you suggest nothing would be fixed, time would be wasted, MONEY (most important thing to a company) would be wasted. And other skills that give adrenaline are more of the culprit than Cleansing Ire.

Surely this topic is more dead than any horse has ever been beaten.

Report the post for being what it is: a trolling post.

Oh good. Thats exactly what I had intended to bring to the table.

bobomb.5209:

hooma.9642:

@bobomb.5209
- dogged march delievers free regen. in a group fight are a lot of soft cc flying around. that adds to healing signet and adrenalin regen
- you should play without cleansing ire like me to actual knowing its power. it delievers enough regen esp in a group fight where all the aoe can be devasting
- another src of adrenalin regen comes from zerkerstance, but unless cleansing ire its not 24/7/365
- a zerkerwarrior with 30 in defense can in this meta also take many hits.

if my suggestions are to small so why u are against it? if it doesnt change anything why be against it? as i said, removing adrenalin on cleansing ire just brings back adrenalinmanagement as needed skill. on warrior that can manage that nothing change. but u will notice as soon as u fight against a good oponennt who knows what to dodge your time to spam burst will be harder.

all in all even if this changes are too small i think its a better start to shave warrior with this + the 8% on healing signet then any major nerfs like removing cleansing ire.

- I was talking about Cleansing Ire, not Dogged March
- I do play without Cleansing Ire, my typical build is 30/0/10/0/30
- I will admit I don’t understand what you are saying here.
- If the warrior went 30 into defense he is not a zerk warrior.

I am against your small suggestions because they do nothing but waste time. Should a developer even think about implementing what you suggest nothing would be fixed, time would be wasted, MONEY (most important thing to a company) would be wasted. And other skills that give adrenaline are more of the culprit than Cleansing Ire.

i know u was talking about cleansing ire. but dogged march needs a shave too.

zerkerwarrior was a reference to the used amulett. and no u have no idea what u talk about cause u play either with berserkers power + hf or burst master + bm.. and no u cant with that not burst in the frequency how u could with cleansing ire + 30 in defense in a group fight.

all overperforming warrior builds have 1 common trait. and thats cleansing ire. my intention is to “shave” not to wakkamole.

eleshazar.6902:

Jzaku.9765:

eleshazar.6902:

Yeah I don’t think you get the meaning of sacrifice….

Those guards that go bunker. You should see their damage numbers some time. I’ve tried that build. You crit for 800. No not 8k, 800. A warrior can’t even see that low of a number even if they went all sentinel’s with no attributes in power/crit/or condi.

It isn’t about giving up a util slot or two, or maybe giving up 1k damage. It is about the fact that every other class that goes tanky cannot reliably dps when they do. You can still deal 4k crits as a warrior when you are tanky as all heck. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

I took the time to prove you wrong because you really disgust me with your hyperbole.
“But if you compare [build that is clearly meant to kill people] with [build that is clearly NOT meant to kill people] they do so much more damage!”

Except if a warrior was traited exactly the same way as a bunker guardian its pretty much the same damage. However much you want to delude yourself into thinking your average bruiser warrior build is just as tanky as a bunker guardian it still remains, factually, completely false.

You do realize that attaching some random combat sample from hitting a heavy golem in pvp means nothing right…

A) We have no clue what you were wearing (if anything at all) besides your word.
B) Damage scales differently in PvP than PvE/WvW
C) We have no clue if you put on any traits, or what they were in
D) Did you use all of your massive damage boosting skills? Sig of Rage, FGJ, Banners, etc?

What we can tell from your graph tells us that you only auto attacked…. Where was the glorious HB or are you afraid of what those numbers might have looked like?

Where was the condi damage from the sword, or again afraid of what that might look like?

And of course no one here is arguing that the auto attack on Warriors is OP we are arguing all damage in general is. So having your auto attack hit on hammer for 1k just proves my point…. When I referenced 800 crit on guard I’m talking the max using whirling wrath.

Simply showing some numbers associated with Warrior skills really tells no one anything without context. The only thing we know is that you equipped different weps, which ironically in PvP doesn’t mean that you even had any stats on yourself.

You are so biased it makes me want to laugh…. Sad thing is you may honestly believe in what you are saying.

You do realise this information is available to anyone with HALF a modicum of effort. I’m fairly sure the only person backwards enough to believe anyone would falsify damage comparison screen shots would be you. And I find it hilarious that your post is the one that’s chock full of anecdotal “evidence” while you try to call me out on falsifying information. it really is disgusting. This is not even TOUCHING on how you continue to insist on comparing what is clearly two completely different builds with different purposes on one dimension, damage.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Well ANet has said, that you can play your class the way you want. The only class who is matching this statement is the warrior. However in my estimation, if you would raise all classes to the level of the warrior, all classes would become some sort of powerhouse, which would turn PvP into onehit kill battles, which obviously wouldn’t be funny. It would be way easier to tone the warrior down a bit instead of buffing all other classes.

Whats stopping you from playing any other class the way you want? You seem to have set up for yourself a definition of whats good and what isn’t and that’s your own problem.

And it would not become a 1 hit kill instagib fest. Because warrior can’t do that now. Unless you’re trying to say they can?

Nerf everything but the warrior guys.
It’s the only prof that’s balanced and is not OP at all.

fellyn.5083:

Whats stopping you from playing any other class the way you want? You seem to have set up for yourself a definition of whats good and what isn’t and that’s your own problem.

The LFG-Tool

And it would not become a 1 hit kill instagib fest. Because warrior can’t do that now. Unless you’re trying to say they can?

They are indeed able to wreck opponents very fast.
While 1hit kill might be hyperbolic, you would still end up in a meta in which one mistake can kill you.

Zero Day.2594:

Nerf everything but the warrior guys.
It’s the only prof that’s balanced and is not OP at all.

Somewhere there is a video of profession discuss where the generally idea of buffs to everything else would be a nerf to warrior, I can hope it was sarcasm, but the forums general vibe makes me think it is kind of the view that many would take.

Bran.7425:

Zero Day.2594:

Nerf everything but the warrior guys.
It’s the only prof that’s balanced and is not OP at all.

Somewhere there is a video of profession discuss where the generally idea of buffs to everything else would be a nerf to warrior, I can hope it was sarcasm, but the forums general vibe makes me think it is kind of the view that many would take.

I think he just forgot to add /sarcasm in his post dude.

Wasn’t a post was in a video, but there is also an really old one where asking for better control of ranger pets being lumped in warriors dual-wielding greatswords and mesmers asking for nuclear devices.