Guild Wars 2

When the game came out Arenanet’s developers said that they want warrior to be the heavy armor class. They should stay and fight face to face with the enemy.
Also they said that they should have bad condition removal skills, so they depend on others for this. That is why they gave them the top, unparalleled stats, 18k health PLUS heavy armor.

This did not work well, and warriors were for a long time a viable choice only at PvE. To fix this, patch after patch, Arenanet gave anything to warriors.
Now, they can run faster than anyone, they have good condition cleaning skills and immunity on demand, top regeneration, etc.
I will not say if they did good or not. I say that now, that they have anything to use
MAKE THEM 15K BASE HEALTH.

This way if they want to bunker, they will have to use the proper skills and traits.
If they want to go YOLO doing 20k critical with rifle, it should be possible to be oneshoted themselves the same way too. (this is an example, I do not claim that zerker rifle warriors are OP. The opposite, they do not know when you use a reflect skill and are easy and fun kills this way)

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

Adren healing + Regen banners + Heal sig makes warriors a great bunker, i consider them on par with guardians when it comes to bunkering. Not to mention that warrior banners are AoE and pump out support to nearby allies, something which a guardian can’t do.

xsquared.1926:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

Adren healing + Regen banners + Heal sig makes warriors a great bunker, i consider them on par with guardians when it comes to bunkering. Not to mention that warrior banners are AoE and pump out support to nearby allies, something which a guardian can’t do.

Guardian are much more superior in defensive team support (aoe stability+protection+aegis >>> banner+might+fury) and have better point control tools (hammer/shield/staff/sanctuary).

People still dont understand how balance works.

Suggestions for nerfing do not work unless they include “except Warrior” in it.
Suggestions for buffing must include “so does Warrior” or “Warrior does it better”.

Example:
Nerf perma Vigor for every class = bad suggestion
Nerf perma Vigor for every class except Warrior = great idea
Buff Guardian’s Rejuvenation = bad suggestion
Buff Guardian’s Rejuvenation and Warrior’s Healing Signet more = excellent idea

Once you understand how balance works, your suggestions and opinions will be taken a lot more into account.

Kanenas.4906:

When the game came out
Also they said that they should have bad condition removal skills, so they depend on others for this. That is why they gave them the top, unparalleled stats, 18k health PLUS heavy armor.

Kanenas.4906:

A class that needs to depend on others to work dosent belong in this game. The MAIN thing anet wanted gw2 to have was every class having enough utlity to keep them selves alive and rest of the things to BENEFIT the team not make weaker classes crutch on others to be viable.

Now, they can run faster than anyone

Kanenas.4906:

Wars could do this before.

I will not say if they did good or not. I say that now, that they have anything to use
MAKE THEM 15K BASE HEALTH.
This game dosent need more 15k base health bs classes.

This way if they want to bunker, they will have to use the proper skills and traits.
If they want to go YOLO doing 20k critical with rifle, it should be possible to be oneshoted themselves the same way too. (this is an example, I do not claim that zerker rifle warriors are OP. The opposite, they do not know when you use a reflect skill and are easy and fun kills this way)

You can one shot a ‘’YOLO 20k crit’’ rifle war very easily.

What class do you play by the way.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

People still dont understand how balance works.

Suggestions for nerfing do not work unless they include “except Warrior” in it.
Suggestions for buffing must include “so does Warrior” or “Warrior does it better”.

Example:
Nerf perma Vigor for every class = bad suggestion
Nerf perma Vigor for every class except Warrior = great idea
Buff Guardian’s Rejuvenation = bad suggestion
Buff Guardian’s Rejuvenation and Warrior’s Healing Signet more = excellent idea

Once you understand how balance works, your suggestions and opinions will be taken a lot more into account.

I like you. Why are we not best friends?

Kanenas.4906:

When the game came out Arenanet’s developers said that they want warrior to be the heavy armor class. They should stay and fight face to face with the enemy.
Also they said that they should have bad condition removal skills, so they depend on others for this. That is why they gave them the top, unparalleled stats, 18k health PLUS heavy armor.

This did not work well, and warriors were for a long time a viable choice only at PvE. To fix this, patch after patch, Arenanet gave anything to warriors.
Now, they can run faster than anyone, they have good condition cleaning skills and immunity on demand, top regeneration, etc.
I will not say if they did good or not. I say that now, that they have anything to use
MAKE THEM 15K BASE HEALTH.

This way if they want to bunker, they will have to use the proper skills and traits.
If they want to go YOLO doing 20k critical with rifle, it should be possible to be oneshoted themselves the same way too. (this is an example, I do not claim that zerker rifle warriors are OP. The opposite, they do not know when you use a reflect skill and are easy and fun kills this way)

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
First of all – you start off with " at the beginning Anet said this and that". Funny – I’ve been reading all about GW2 even before it was launched and never saw this.
Please post specifics and links to that information or refrain from trying to justify your view on things by saying " anet said this or that".

Second – Warrior mobility ( speed ) was never touched – it is the same as when the game started.
Also – the buffs were right – the profession was UNPLAYABLE in PVP and WvW at the beginning of the game.

Harper.4173:

.

First, since you do not know me, please keep phrases like “You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?” for you friends.
Second, I play the game and read the forums since the start, what I say it was posted in the forums. I wish the search tool was working, so I could find the thread. Maybe a dev or another person can step in and prove me true.
Third tell me where do I say that speed is added now. I say how is the situation now.

And if you like to put on table some arguments instead of insults, tell to us where do you think the warrior is not good comparing him to other professions, so he has to have heavy armor PLUS 18k base health at the same time.

Edit: I found the post, here it is

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

This dicsussion again? What makes a spec a ‘bunker’ spec? 30 pts in their toughness line is what most people would say. Perhaps it’s 30pts in their toughness and vitality lines? Warriors do both. So they spec for bunker just like anyone else.

Now you’re right… a Warrior still does pretty good damage while being bunker. But on the flip side, the Guardian is providing a lot more group utility and healing. Perhaps this is because the class is meant as a DPS class and not a support class?

Kanenas.4906:

Harper.4173:

.

First, since you do not know me, please keep phrases like “You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?” for you friends.
Second, I play the game and read the forums since the start, what I say it was posted in the forums. I wish the search tool was working, so I could find the thread. Maybe a dev or another person can step in and prove me true.
Third tell me where do I say that speed is added now. I say how is the situation now.

And if you like to put on table some arguments instead of insults, tell to us where do you think the warrior is not good comparing him to other professions, so he has to have heavy armor PLUS 18k base health at the same time.

He lacks specialization.
He lacks the ability to support allies like other classes
He lacks gimmick mechanics that allow for avoiding damage – protection, stealth, reflects, clones, etc.
So yes – he needs heavy armor + high HP pool + good regen to be able to be viable. Before the HS buff warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Do you remember that or did you casually discard it?

Turtle Dragon.9241:

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

I think you misunderstood me. I’m saying that a warrior can bunk better than a guard and at the same time out dps a guard. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt by saying they sacrifice a little (which means they don’t crit for 20k and instead have to suffice with 10k crits and amazing condition damage, meanwhile a bunker guard is happy for 2-3k crits).

In short, I’m agreeing that a warrior needs to sacrifice more to be as tanky as they are.

Atherakhia.4086:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

This dicsussion again? What makes a spec a ‘bunker’ spec? 30 pts in their toughness line is what most people would say. Perhaps it’s 30pts in their toughness and vitality lines? Warriors do both. So they spec for bunker just like anyone else.

Now you’re right… a Warrior still does pretty good damage while being bunker. But on the flip side, the Guardian is providing a lot more group utility and healing. Perhaps this is because the class is meant as a DPS class and not a support class?

And wrong…. Warrior with 30 in vit and 30 in tough can use a shout build using gs and sword/warhorn. Healing for more than a guard on shout, and removing conditions with warhorn blasts. Warriors are better supporters than guards, and at the same time better dpsers.

:| Balancing warriors is bad for revenue…
If they get nerfed or become balanced all the people that want easy wins will leave… and when people leave…

eleshazar.6902:

Atherakhia.4086:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

This dicsussion again? What makes a spec a ‘bunker’ spec? 30 pts in their toughness line is what most people would say. Perhaps it’s 30pts in their toughness and vitality lines? Warriors do both. So they spec for bunker just like anyone else.

Now you’re right… a Warrior still does pretty good damage while being bunker. But on the flip side, the Guardian is providing a lot more group utility and healing. Perhaps this is because the class is meant as a DPS class and not a support class?

And wrong…. Warrior with 30 in vit and 30 in tough can use a shout build using gs and sword/warhorn. Healing for more than a guard on shout, and removing conditions with warhorn blasts. Warriors are better supporters than guards, and at the same time better dpsers.

Then you have absolutely no idea what it is a Guardian actually provides a group. And greatsword? Who runs Greatsword anymore?

You have to consider that you can’t just nerf them in PvP without giving them something to compensate for it in PvE. If you nerf the warrior’s already-poor survivability in PvE because regen is too strong in PvP, then warrior ends up being a glass cannon with low DPS. Right now the only things keeping them viable in PvE are banners and ease of use, take the latter away and you might as well just rename the class the Bannerbot.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

…Poor survivability in PvE…

What game are you playing where warriors have poor survivability at all? I can assure you it’s not GW2.

Atherakhia.4086:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

This dicsussion again? What makes a spec a ‘bunker’ spec? 30 pts in their toughness line is what most people would say. Perhaps it’s 30pts in their toughness and vitality lines? Warriors do both. So they spec for bunker just like anyone else.

Now you’re right… a Warrior still does pretty good damage while being bunker. But on the flip side, the Guardian is providing a lot more group utility and healing. Perhaps this is because the class is meant as a DPS class and not a support class?

I’m sorry but the way ANet sold it was that you can be DPS/Support/Bunker/Whatever wasn’t… it (filter decided to replace it with kitten for some reason hence the …) ?
So what are you talking about dps and support class? There’s no such thing according to ANet all can do all.

Atherakhia.4086:

eleshazar.6902:

Atherakhia.4086:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

eleshazar.6902:

Rednik.3809:

Flash news: Warriors are already inferior to guardians in bunkering. And rifle build… lol.

I just want to touch on this quickly since I have both an 80 warrior and an 80 guardian.

A bunker guardian can bunk well, but will deal LITTLE TO NO DAMAGE. A warrior can bunk equally well AND WILL DEAL DECENT DAMAGE

That is the problem with saying guards can bunk just as well. Warriors sacrifice little to achieve a bunker.

Incorrect.

Warriors do not have sacrifice anything to achieve bunker. They equip Healing Signet, which is just 1 skill that is in your heal slot(therefore has no effect on DPS) and they can bunker just as fine as Guardians.

Guardian class is about sacrificing your Virtues to buff your allies.
Warrior class is not about sacrifice. It is about being better than any other class out there ever.

This dicsussion again? What makes a spec a ‘bunker’ spec? 30 pts in their toughness line is what most people would say. Perhaps it’s 30pts in their toughness and vitality lines? Warriors do both. So they spec for bunker just like anyone else.

Now you’re right… a Warrior still does pretty good damage while being bunker. But on the flip side, the Guardian is providing a lot more group utility and healing. Perhaps this is because the class is meant as a DPS class and not a support class?

And wrong…. Warrior with 30 in vit and 30 in tough can use a shout build using gs and sword/warhorn. Healing for more than a guard on shout, and removing conditions with warhorn blasts. Warriors are better supporters than guards, and at the same time better dpsers.

Then you have absolutely no idea what it is a Guardian actually provides a group. And greatsword? Who runs Greatsword anymore?

With over 3k hours on a guard I think I get what they provide pretty well.

As to who runs greatsword on a Warrior? I have to assume you are either being sarcastic, or you have never logged into the game. In WvW there isn’t a single warrior that doesn’t have a greatsword on unless they are a hambow warrior which is pretty rare. And don’t get me started on GS on warrior in pve.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You have to consider that you can’t just nerf them in PvP without giving them something to compensate for it in PvE. If you nerf the warrior’s already-poor survivability in PvE because regen is too strong in PvP, then warrior ends up being a glass cannon with low DPS. Right now the only things keeping them viable in PvE are banners and ease of use, take the latter away and you might as well just rename the class the Bannerbot.

Is this for real? Low survivability in PvE? Warriors can be the tankiest profession in the game, and in PvE you can run full zerk and just dodge/block the dumb AI mechanics. And if you aren’t competent enough to do that then just slap on HS and face roll on keyboard.

You should read up more. They are nerfing because of PvE/WvW. Not because of PvP (I know, a very very rare occurence from our illustrious balance team that only cares about PvP). The reason they haven’t nerfed it sooner is because it is a subpar skill in PvP where poison is easily accessible, and warriors can’t deal as much ridiculous crit damage because of the different scaling.

Since people are comparing warrior and guardians. I play both for an extensive time and I can weight in:

Both my Guardian and Warrior are similarly geared, a mix or Zerker and defensive pieces.

Stat (without food) on Guardian: 2.6k armor, 16k health, 2.9k attack, 38% crit
Stat (without food) on Warrior: 3.1k armor, 21k health, 3.1k attack, 40% crit

Even though warrior has more health, more armor than my Guardian can simply tank much better by far. My guardian has a more access to defensive boons, access to regular regen, and burst heal. My warrior is much for susceptible to burst with HS, and when your health is low, there is nothing you can do other than run away.

In terms of damage, they are similar. My warrior is better at bursting, but the guardian does more damage over the long run with full stack of boons.

Of course warrior has other advantage such as more mobile (better at running away), and more CC. But my guardian is great in group play as every boon I apply to myself I apply it to 4 others around me.

To me they are pretty even. With my Guardian, if I grouped up with few others we are un-killable. But the Warrior is easier to play and more solo friendly. This is why warrior is much easier to win in a unskilled-match and liked by more people. I personally this should be celebrated not beaten down. I would said Anet should allow other profession to have simplistic play style and be effective at the same time.

Guardians absolute bunker better than Warriors on point, even warriors fully specced into their bunker can’t easily pull it off. Warriors however do in fact have more damage as a bunker, but that is not intent of being a bunker.

Guardian bunker weapons are extremely defensive and control whereas Warrior bunker is aggressive and control on point. Compare hammers, shields, maces, etc. of each profession mechanically and realize this truth.

Warriors are a strong bunkery profession but they do not beat Guardians at the role.

Guys…
STOP, don’t nerf warriors…
What am i going to re-roll to?
Nerf thieves instead, there’s plenty room left (just pick a skill off the top of your head).

If you want someone to be left alone on a point a defend it, I don’t think you would pick neither a bunker Warrior nor a bunker Guardian. Engineers, Rangers and maybe even MM Necros are better at this.

Both Warrior and specially Guardian bunker specs are teamfight bunkers, assets you want to have wherever the teamfight is happening.
Guardian has better party wide support, specially condition removal, which make him shine on big teamfights, while Warrior offers quite better offensive capabilites and is probably superior for smaller fights (like 2 on 2).

eleshazar.6902:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You have to consider that you can’t just nerf them in PvP without giving them something to compensate for it in PvE. If you nerf the warrior’s already-poor survivability in PvE because regen is too strong in PvP, then warrior ends up being a glass cannon with low DPS. Right now the only things keeping them viable in PvE are banners and ease of use, take the latter away and you might as well just rename the class the Bannerbot.

Is this for real? Low survivability in PvE? Warriors can be the tankiest profession in the game, and in PvE you can run full zerk and just dodge/block the dumb AI mechanics. And if you aren’t competent enough to do that then just slap on HS and face roll on keyboard.

You should read up more. They are nerfing because of PvE/WvW. Not because of PvP (I know, a very very rare occurence from our illustrious balance team that only cares about PvP). The reason they haven’t nerfed it sooner is because it is a subpar skill in PvP where poison is easily accessible, and warriors can’t deal as much ridiculous crit damage because of the different scaling.

- No vigor proc
- Bad heal
- No defensive cooldowns on main DPS weapon

Having a high armor rating and lots of health doesn’t mean anything if you’re getting hit by twice as many hits as everyone else and have no way to restore your health. Warrior is pretty much the only class that has to make huge DPS tradeoffs for any survivability at all. Compare to:

Mesmer:
- Regen on heal passive equal to Heal Sig + much better active heal + permaregen
- Permavigor
- Two defensive cooldowns on short CD on main DPS set
- Multiple panic buttons (stun break, condition cleanse, Distortion) on primarily DPS utilities.
- Deals almost 50% more overall DPS than warriors

Guardian:
- Outrageous damage mitigation (permaprot from hammer, Signet of Judgment)
- Blinds and blocks
- Permanent regen/panic heal
- Panic button elite
- Deals damage equivalent to warriors

And you’re telling me the warrior needs a health NERF, to compensate for? Having average DPS?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmer:
- Regen on heal passive equal to Heal Sig + much better active heal + permaregen
- Permavigor
- Two defensive cooldowns on short CD on main DPS set
- Multiple panic buttons (stun break, condition cleanse, Distortion) on primarily DPS utilities.
- Deals almost 50% more overall DPS than warriors

1: Ether Signet: Heal every 3 seconds, and only if 3 illusions are out is it high.
Healing Signet: Heal forever regardless of anything

2: No Permavigor, as it was (will be) taken away

3: Blurred Frenzy I’m guessing? I mean that’s one. On a melee weapon. On a light armor class. Which if build for DPS will be 10x squishier than any warrior ever.

4: Decoy=Primary DPS? Dat clone damage OP.
Mantra of Resolve= Primary DPS? I mean I guess I can condi cleanse you to death?
Blink= Primary DPS? I guess it’s kinda intimidating if I blink towards you…
Distortion=Primary DPS? So much damage.

5: I agree, we have a lot of potential burst. However to get that burst we sacrifice defense. What do warriors sacrifice to get damage? Call me when your health is actually below 20k and your armor is only 1.9k. Then we’ll talk.

So hum. I saw someone comment that warriors run GS or Hambow in W3. I’d just like to say…. LMFAO. They both have their uses in maybe roaming for hambow and GS in skill groups of players. But balance is ALWAYS around the general population. And the general population DOES NOT use either of those in W3 as a warrior. Most run Hammer/Xwarhorn.

I found the post I was talking about at the OP, for all those who say I made stories!

Here it is , it was written by J Sharp.

For the old players to remember, and the new ones to learn what was the Anet’s vision for professions about a year ago.

They made the wrong descissions at the time we had the condition meta.

instead of making the warrior a big threat while he is in close combat and making it easy for him to get there (i.e. lifesteal and working gap closer) they gave him all those condition removals, while not tuning down his offensive potential. And whats more important, they gave them the easiest access to those defensive skills/traits. Nearly no sacrifice in offensive if you go defensive.

eleshazar.6902:

As to who runs greatsword on a Warrior? I have to assume you are either being sarcastic, or you have never logged into the game. In WvW there isn’t a single warrior that doesn’t have a greatsword on unless they are a hambow warrior which is pretty rare. And don’t get me started on GS on warrior in pve.

Pls, tell me your server with 100% GS warriors, I love free bags.

Kanenas.4906:

I found the post I was talking about at the OP, for all those who say I made stories!

Here it is , it was written by J Sharp.

For the old players to remember, and the new ones to learn what was the Anet’s vision for professions about a year ago.

Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

That last line is like the punch line of a joke.

WhiteRose.6934:

Kanenas.4906:

I found the post I was talking about at the OP, for all those who say I made stories!

Here it is , it was written by J Sharp.

For the old players to remember, and the new ones to learn what was the Anet’s vision for professions about a year ago.

Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

That last line is like the punch line of a joke.

They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Note that it does not say that they must have a hard time with conditions and must need help, it says they may have a hard time and may need help. This is true still. If a warrior does not trait for the condition removal and does not bring skills and/or food which help with conditions, then he will have the trouble with conditions. If he does spec appropriately, he will not. So, a warrior may indeed have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

May. Not must, may. The word infers that he may also not.

This is simple English people. It’s a really useful language. I would suggest those people who keep referring to this dev statement as proof that the warrior is out of line of the original balance premise learn a little bit of English before coming here and embarrassing themselves with their lack of understanding of a simple and oft used word.

havoc.6814:

…superior attitude…

That’s a whole lot of hypothetical IF

I mean warrior also may have it pretty easy to deal with conditions compared to other classes. They may also have more mobility than other classes. They may be able to build burst damage while not sacrificing any defense, unlike other classes. Warrior may have a ton of passive sustain.

Warrior may need to be toned down.

Harper.4173:

He lacks specialization.

True. He is a jack of all trades. He does not specialize himself simply to the fact that he is good in everything.

He lacks the ability to support allies like other classes

So any shout, any banner or any physical skill is no support in any means?
Think again.

He lacks gimmick mechanics that allow for avoiding damage – protection, stealth, reflects, clones, etc.
So yes – he needs heavy armor + high HP pool + good regen to be able to be viable. Before the HS buff warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Do you remember that or did you casually discard it?

So 3sec. block, endure pain and berserker stance aren’t there to avoid damage?
Nuff said.

So yeah, warrior definitely needs clones and stealth.
Would be best if he could instacast 3 100b clones direct in the face of the enemy combined with unbreakable permastealth. That would really balance the warrior out.
Seriously now, I’m just wondering how stupid people can get, that they start to tell which unique skills from other classes the warrior doesn’t have. They even start to argue how well balanced the warrior is, ontop of their listings.

But yeah, this tactic is really clever. I’m just going to claim that the ranger will stay underpowered as long as he can’t use clones, deathshroud, adrenaline, weaponkits, permastealth and virtues all together. And FGS of course. Rangers don’t need attunements, though. We don’t want to be OP, right?

WhiteRose.6934:

havoc.6814:

…superior attitude…

That’s a whole lot of hypothetical IF

I mean warrior also may have it pretty easy to deal with conditions compared to other classes. They may also have more mobility than other classes. They may be able to build burst damage while not sacrificing any defense, unlike other classes. Warrior may have a ton of passive sustain.

Warrior may need to be toned down.

There is absolutely nothing hypothetical about my comments. There is no IF, either in my statements nor in the dev’s statement. If you cannot understand the simplest of linguistic constructs, then that is your problem.

Your peculiar trip down Fantasy Lane however has nothing to do with the dev statement in question. Adding a bunch of statements with “may” included changes nothing about what the dev stated, and also infers the distinct possibility that those statements made by you “may not” be correct – that you may just be full of it.

havoc.6814:

WhiteRose.6934:

Kanenas.4906:

I found the post I was talking about at the OP, for all those who say I made stories!

Here it is , it was written by J Sharp.

For the old players to remember, and the new ones to learn what was the Anet’s vision for professions about a year ago.

Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

That last line is like the punch line of a joke.

They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Note that it does not say that they must have a hard time with conditions and must need help, it says they may have a hard time and may need help. This is true still. If a warrior does not trait for the condition removal and does not bring skills and/or food which help with conditions, then he will have the trouble with conditions. If he does spec appropriately, he will not. So, a warrior may indeed have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

May. Not must, may. The word infers that he may also not.

This is simple English people. It’s a really useful language. I would suggest those people who keep referring to this dev statement as proof that the warrior is out of line of the original balance premise learn a little bit of English before coming here and embarrassing themselves with their lack of understanding of a simple and oft used word.

You seem to not comprehend that having one class be specifically mentioned as possibly having trouble with conditions and having no other classes mentioned as potentially having that same weakness sort of implies that warrior should have a harder time dealing with conditions with equal investment into that capacity, which is not the case currently. Warriors have some of the best condition removal in the game accessible with little (compared to what other classes have to do) investment.

So before you start waxing eloquent about how other people are just stupid for not understanding the word “may”, please give some more serious thought to the logical basis of your argument.
Honestly, they could have been using “may” in the sense that warriors don’t have trouble with conditions when conditions are not being applied to them, which frankly makes a lot more sense than giving warriors permission to have trouble with conditions (which is how you interpret it).

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Harper.4173:

He lacks specialization.

True. He is a jack of all trades. He does not specialize himself simply to the fact that he is good in everything.

He lacks the ability to support allies like other classes

So any shout, any banner or any physical skill is no support in any means?
Think again.

He lacks gimmick mechanics that allow for avoiding damage – protection, stealth, reflects, clones, etc.
So yes – he needs heavy armor + high HP pool + good regen to be able to be viable. Before the HS buff warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Do you remember that or did you casually discard it?

So 3sec. block, endure pain and berserker stance aren’t there to avoid damage?
Nuff said.

So yeah, warrior definitely needs clones and stealth.
Would be best if he could instacast 3 100b clones direct in the face of the enemy combined with unbreakable permastealth. That would really balance the warrior out.
Seriously now, I’m just wondering how stupid people can get, that they start to tell which unique skills from other classes the warrior doesn’t have. They even start to argue how well balanced the warrior is, ontop of their listings.

But yeah, this tactic is really clever. I’m just going to claim that the ranger will stay underpowered as long as he can’t use clones, deathshroud, adrenaline, weaponkits, permastealth and virtues all together. And FGS of course. Rangers don’t need attunements, though. We don’t want to be OP, right?

This basically

Whenever a nerf warrior thread comes there will always be people saying: Well theifs have stealth! Mes have clones, Ranger have pets etc…

You wear heavy armor, have unparallelled DPS/tank balance, tanks almost as good or better than the profession that is known for tanking, heals almost as good or better than the profession known for healing, runs almost as fast or faster than the profession known for mobility… Is that not enough?

Also I always see arguments like

well <profession> is better in <something> than us

Let me tell you… coming to be a close second or third in everything that you are not the best in is still considered overpowered.

If you cannot find 1~2 professions that are actually better in something than warriors than this whole game should be called “Warrior Wars”.

now can you tell me what is the warrior worst in doing comparing other professions? hard to find one right?

Its like saying what they have is not enough and they want more simply because other classes have them.

Warriors can only be satisfied when they are given permanent Invunurability as a trait that can be unlocked in 5 lvls.

havoc.6814:

WhiteRose.6934:

havoc.6814:

…superior attitude…

That’s a whole lot of hypothetical IF

I mean warrior also may have it pretty easy to deal with conditions compared to other classes. They may also have more mobility than other classes. They may be able to build burst damage while not sacrificing any defense, unlike other classes. Warrior may have a ton of passive sustain.

Warrior may need to be toned down.

There is absolutely nothing hypothetical about my comments. There is no IF, either in my statements nor in the dev’s statement. If you cannot understand the simplest of linguistic constructs, then that is your problem.

Your peculiar trip down Fantasy Lane however has nothing to do with the dev statement in question. Adding a bunch of statements with “may” included changes nothing about what the dev stated, and also infers the distinct possibility that those statements made by you “may not” be correct – that you may just be full of it.

Allow me to tell you why may is used…

If they say must, that means every single condition will and must give problems to warriors, even with just 1 stack of bleed. Which is not the case. Warriors can shed of 1 stack of bleed without anything but their hp even at prebuff..

May is used to tell you that when Warriors face enough conditions, it will have a hard time. It is to imply that conditions are Warrior’s weakness.

with your use of may, I can also say warriors are OP because they
may have permanent stealth (when someone drops smoke field with blast finish beside them every 3 seconds)
may have permanent invunarability (picking up a Exlir of Heros every 5 seconds…

Having such sustain, dps, permanent stealth and permanent invunarability is too overpowered.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You seem to not comprehend that having one class be specifically mentioned as possibly having trouble with conditions and having no other classes mentioned as potentially having that same weakness sort of implies that warrior should have a harder time dealing with conditions with equal investment into that capacity, which is not the case currently. Warriors have some of the best condition removal in the game accessible with little (compared to what other classes have to do) investment.

So before you start waxing eloquent about how other people are just stupid for not understanding the word “may”, please give some more serious thought to the logical basis of your argument.
Honestly, they could have been using “may” in the sense that warriors don’t have trouble with conditions when conditions are not being applied to them, which frankly makes a lot more sense than giving warriors permission to have trouble with conditions (which is how you interpret it).

I didn’t interpret anything. The statement made by the dev was very simple, plain English usage. The meaning is very obvious and does not require interpretation. You are the one trying to invent reasons to be able to interpret it to mean something different than what was obviously said. If what you are suggesting were true, then the devs would have said that the warrior “will” have trouble with conditions. People do not generally phrase their statements to be intentionally confusing or to sound like they are saying something else when explaining a concept. Stop trying to imagine that the Dev wanted to say something other than what he said. Stop building straw houses.

Noliver.1475:

Allow me to tell you why may is used…

If they say must, that means every single condition will and must give problems to warriors, even with just 1 stack of bleed. Which is not the case. Warriors can shed of 1 stack of bleed without anything but their hp even at prebuff..

May is used to tell you that when Warriors face enough conditions, it will have a hard time. It is to imply that conditions are Warrior’s weakness.

with your use of may, I can also say warriors are OP because they
may have permanent stealth (when someone drops smoke field with blast finish beside them every 3 seconds)
may have permanent invunerability (picking up a Exlir of Heros every 5 seconds…

Having such sustain, dps, permanent stealth and permanent invunarability is too overpowered.

See the above statement to P Fun Daddy (lol, that must be a 12 yo with a name like that). You to are inventing straw arguments (and are obviously really having to stretch your imagination when you start talking about warriors and stealth). The dev statement is in simple English and easily understood. Try learning the language, it will help your understanding greatly. Stop building straw houses.

havoc.6814:

Please go read the post, and come again to comment. Especially the part:

“When designing and balancing the classes, we try to make sure that class roles and identities stay intact. So, in doing so, we make sure that there are rules and boundaries outlining the capabilities and weaknesses of each class.

Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions."

If you fail to understand that the dev was talking about abilities and weakness for each class, and that warrior’s weakness should be conditions, it is no problem.
It seems that you are not able to understand the meaning of a full texts.

Kanenas.4906:

-snip-
…and that warrior’s weakness should be conditions
-snip

This is the part of what you just said that I disagree with. The dev did not use the word “should”, but “may”. All is well with that. The warrior must spec 20 points into a defensive trait to get the ability to strip some conditions provided that his burst skill actually hits. That is not an auto-strip of conditions as most classes get, it is a conditional strip of conditions, and costs 20 points to get. Obviously, the warrior is weak against conditions and must trait to balance this. Hence the warrior may have trouble with conditions, but may also not have, depending wholly upon whether he throws points at this weakness or not.

I am right; you are wrong. It’s really that simple.

And other classes need 50 points to get the same benefit, the warrior gets out of this 20, if this is even possible on some classes.

Noliver.1475:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Harper.4173:

He lacks specialization.

True. He is a jack of all trades. He does not specialize himself simply to the fact that he is good in everything.

He lacks the ability to support allies like other classes

So any shout, any banner or any physical skill is no support in any means?
Think again.

He lacks gimmick mechanics that allow for avoiding damage – protection, stealth, reflects, clones, etc.
So yes – he needs heavy armor + high HP pool + good regen to be able to be viable. Before the HS buff warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Do you remember that or did you casually discard it?

So 3sec. block, endure pain and berserker stance aren’t there to avoid damage?
Nuff said.

So yeah, warrior definitely needs clones and stealth.
Would be best if he could instacast 3 100b clones direct in the face of the enemy combined with unbreakable permastealth. That would really balance the warrior out.
Seriously now, I’m just wondering how stupid people can get, that they start to tell which unique skills from other classes the warrior doesn’t have. They even start to argue how well balanced the warrior is, ontop of their listings.

But yeah, this tactic is really clever. I’m just going to claim that the ranger will stay underpowered as long as he can’t use clones, deathshroud, adrenaline, weaponkits, permastealth and virtues all together. And FGS of course. Rangers don’t need attunements, though. We don’t want to be OP, right?

This basically

Whenever a nerf warrior thread comes there will always be people saying: Well theifs have stealth! Mes have clones, Ranger have pets etc…

You wear heavy armor, have unparallelled DPS/tank balance, tanks almost as good or better than the profession that is known for tanking, heals almost as good or better than the profession known for healing, runs almost as fast or faster than the profession known for mobility… Is that not enough?

Also I always see arguments like

well <profession> is better in <something> than us

Let me tell you… coming to be a close second or third in everything that you are not the best in is still considered overpowered.

If you cannot find 1~2 professions that are actually better in something than warriors than this whole game should be called “Warrior Wars”.

now can you tell me what is the warrior worst in doing comparing other professions? hard to find one right?

Its like saying what they have is not enough and they want more simply because other classes have them.

Warriors can only be satisfied when they are given permanent Invunurability as a trait that can be unlocked in 5 lvls.

your post is probably the worst and at the same time funnies i’ve ever read.

Warriors at the moment are outperformed in most aspects of the game by other classes. If you want them to not even be second or third best and always be 4th best or worse in all these aspects my question to you is : why even have the class? Why would people even play it?

Also – you seem not to understand what people have been explaining. The inability to do things as good as other classes means that in those situation warriors are WORSE than those classes.

Harper.4173:

Noliver.1475:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Harper.4173:

He lacks specialization.

True. He is a jack of all trades. He does not specialize himself simply to the fact that he is good in everything.

He lacks the ability to support allies like other classes

So any shout, any banner or any physical skill is no support in any means?
Think again.

He lacks gimmick mechanics that allow for avoiding damage – protection, stealth, reflects, clones, etc.
So yes – he needs heavy armor + high HP pool + good regen to be able to be viable. Before the HS buff warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Do you remember that or did you casually discard it?

So 3sec. block, endure pain and berserker stance aren’t there to avoid damage?
Nuff said.

So yeah, warrior definitely needs clones and stealth.
Would be best if he could instacast 3 100b clones direct in the face of the enemy combined with unbreakable permastealth. That would really balance the warrior out.
Seriously now, I’m just wondering how stupid people can get, that they start to tell which unique skills from other classes the warrior doesn’t have. They even start to argue how well balanced the warrior is, ontop of their listings.

But yeah, this tactic is really clever. I’m just going to claim that the ranger will stay underpowered as long as he can’t use clones, deathshroud, adrenaline, weaponkits, permastealth and virtues all together. And FGS of course. Rangers don’t need attunements, though. We don’t want to be OP, right?

This basically

Whenever a nerf warrior thread comes there will always be people saying: Well theifs have stealth! Mes have clones, Ranger have pets etc…

You wear heavy armor, have unparallelled DPS/tank balance, tanks almost as good or better than the profession that is known for tanking, heals almost as good or better than the profession known for healing, runs almost as fast or faster than the profession known for mobility… Is that not enough?

Also I always see arguments like

well <profession> is better in <something> than us

Let me tell you… coming to be a close second or third in everything that you are not the best in is still considered overpowered.

If you cannot find 1~2 professions that are actually better in something than warriors than this whole game should be called “Warrior Wars”.

now can you tell me what is the warrior worst in doing comparing other professions? hard to find one right?

Its like saying what they have is not enough and they want more simply because other classes have them.

Warriors can only be satisfied when they are given permanent Invunurability as a trait that can be unlocked in 5 lvls.

your post is probably the worst and at the same time funnies i’ve ever read.

Warriors at the moment are outperformed in most aspects of the game by other classes. If you want them to not even be second or third best and always be 4th best or worse in all these aspects my question to you is : why even have the class? Why would people even play it?

Also – you seem not to understand what people have been explaining. The inability to do things as good as other classes means that in those situation warriors are WORSE than those classes.

Pretty much. I think people need to tell us what baseline of balance we’re trying to work toward here when it comes to the various suggestions to nerf Warriors.

If you look at the problem objectively, the Warrior class is about where Guardians, Thieves, Engineers, and Necromancers are right now. I wouldn’t rank the Warrior better than any of these classes in PvP or WvW. PvE we already have enough proof showing Warriors are middle tier at best so no need to discuss it.

What baseline do we want to use to look at this game? Are Rangers the baseline for balance meaning we have 7 horrendously overpowered classes? Or do we want to look at Guardians as the baseline for balance where they’re about even with half the classes in the game currently?

Like I said before… it seems the majority of people in this thread have never played the class and won’t be happy until it is entirely eviscerated and any reason to play the class is removed.

here is an exemple.

Didn’t I see a video about a thief 1 v 5 and win? Nerf thief. Come to think of it, I have seem every single prof win and continuously kills in WvW or PvP. Does that mean we are balanced or Anet should nerf every single prof?

Aeolus.3615:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp_vc9aQmMo

here is an exemple.

lol example of what? You realise this video is 1 year old? I really dont understand people in GW2 pvp. If you lose to a class, learn how to deal with it. I used to lose to a thief. created a thief, played few days, now i can beat some ( still lose to good ones).

As if this game is played by kids. Die by class – go spend hours of crying instead of improving. By the way, since when healing signet became op? can i trade it to necro heal that eats conditions, so i dont have to trait 20 points into cleansing ire and land my blasts? Its so op right? Compare every class to class . and would u think of that, it heals 400 hp every second, its 4k per 10s? a thief can do 4k with 2 swings or land a nice 7k backstab?

By the way im using axe/shield + hammer with most defensive traits and runes ever to kitten survive in fights. if you dont use stances – you melt in seconds. 1 immob chain – you are dead ( if not 20 points to avoid that). 1 condi stack + blind on burst – you are dead. And i eat 95% of warriors with my warrior because im decent with it. I can kill 85% of warriors with my thief which i played few days. You know why? because i dont use excuse of “OP”

Tl; dr – Get good in game, stop relying on other factors u cant change and improve. You can spend 4 months crying or a week of training.

I’m forced to agree.

Anyone ever wonder why a-net takes so long to make changes or doesn’t respond to so many of our posts? It is because of the above. People take very little time to really make fair comparisons to classes. As soon as they have a difficult fight, it’s time for the nerf-bat screams. A-net has too much crap to fish through. In many, if not most cases (my opinion, nothing more) skill will trump build.

Warrior seems overpowered to most people because they are easy to run, not because they are actually overpowered. They take less skill to be effective than the other classes. You see this in PvE as well —hence the dominance of warriors in PvE.

When you’re stumped, look into the build they are running. Look for ways to hinder them. This is why I play all 8 classes to some extent. Understanding each class makes a dramatic difference.

Everyone screams for build diversity, but as soon as something shines in any way, they yell to have it destroyed. The end result will be a game where all 8 classes are nearly identical.

There are SOME imbalances in PvP, but few are actually mentioned. Skill trumps most build design. Joe Schmoe in a cookie-cutter build will rarely kill the guy that has 1000+ game hours honing his talent on the build that works best for him.

tl:dr… see above post… I concur.