Guild Wars 2

Anything that allows more diversity and choice in how people build their toons is good, in my opinion.

I do think pure zerker damage could use toning down just a little – probably by reducing the efficacy of crit damage.

I wouldnt mind seeing a meta where everyone does decent damage through a primary stat – whether it be power or condition damage (and this stat should be the same regardless of armor prefix chosen) – where the utility of precision is more important than its actual damage multiplier (ie, the specials that proc from traits are the main reason we should take precision), and where the third stat is more balanced/specialized – eg, toughness or vit for survivability, ability to get in close and control mobs, healing power/boon duration for support, and crit damage for those who only want to do damage (albeit less crit damage than what pure zerkers can do now to encourage more diversity).

I do find the dev’s comments promising – I really want to play a more control focused build in PVE without feeling like im hurting the group.

CptAurellian.9537:

frans.8092:

Ascended Berserker hits 30% harder then Exotic Berserker. What I think they could do is remove the additional increased level of stats, bring ascended major / minor to exotic levels and compensate by adding other stats (say vitality, toughness or even healing) on ascended berserker.

Oh yeah, throwing around some phantasmal numbers is a great contribution to any discussion.

/facepalm

Facepalming at the wrong moment does not make you look smart. Do the numbers, I actually did, and come back if you find them very different, then I’ll look back at mine.

ODB.6891:

frans.8092:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Berserker gear feels like it has two primary stats. It gets huge bonuses to both Power and Crit Damage which scale exponentially with one another. I’d suggest nerfing the Power to a secondary stat or nerfing the critical damage by 1-2% per piece. This unfortunately also means nerfing the crit damage on Assassin’s gear and the crit damage or toughness on Cavalier’s gear to keep them in line with Berserker’s.

Ascended Berserker hits 30% harder then Exotic Berserker. What I think they could do is remove the additional increased level of stats, bring ascended major / minor to exotic levels and compensate by adding other stats (say vitality, toughness or even healing) on ascended berserker.

I’m not sure about that 30% number as the individual pieces have very small increases over exotic berserker, but yeah..without the increase…not much incentive to upgrade. I do like the idea to add the additional survival stats to ascended though. I also believe they could accomplish this the same way they did with magic find…have it be an earned permanent account bonus. That way gear does not need to be altered.

I just put all the stats and formula’s in a spreadsheet, then combined for some gear simulations. I wanted something practical to help me choosing one prefix over another.
Acended has +300 Power, +70 Precision and +15% crit damage. There’s also a +5% straight on base weapon damage. The +300 power by itself is something like 15% …

I could have made a mistake somewhere so feel free to check my results.

Fenrir.3609:

Having all that grind/time/gold potentially invalidated due to a nerf is not all of a sudden made okay simply because I can go out and spend gold an a crappy exotic set.
…

Not neccesarily a problem, for each piece of affected gear you’ll get a one time item that’ll let you change the stats. Leaves you with build options that don’t benefit as much from ascended but it’d be something at least.

frans.8092:

I just put all the stats and formula’s in a spreadsheet, then combined for some gear simulations. I wanted something practical to help me choosing one prefix over another.
Acended has +300 Power, +70 Precision and +15% crit damage. There’s also a +5% straight on base weapon damage. The +300 power by itself is something like 15% …

I could have made a mistake somewhere so feel free to check my results.

Did you by any chance forgot to add jewels to trinkets? Because fully ascended berserker has 85 more power, 47 more precision and 10% more crit damage.

ODB.6891:

A decision to nerf zerker gear will not even solve the problem. The problem is clearly the ineffectiveness of other stat combinations in the game’s combat system. Their ineffectiveness is not going to change suddenly if berserker gear becomes garbage. Just from your comments, you seem to have some bias against ascended gear to begin with. That’s all well and good, but I’ll stay in my lane.

This basically. It’s not that defensive stats are ineffective, they do not come into play as much as the offensive stats.

If you try to factor in defensive stats and factor in health, toughness and healing and eventually you can weigh it all such that all gear is created equally effective, more or less.

But these number tricks do something wrong, they do something that does not occur in PvE life, they factor in defensive stats. The ‘problem’ is not that defensive stats are too weak, it is that these stats, in general pve life, do not come in to play as much as the offensive stats.

So, I think I agree that trashing zerker is no solution.

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

I just put all the stats and formula’s in a spreadsheet, then combined for some gear simulations. I wanted something practical to help me choosing one prefix over another.
Acended has +300 Power, +70 Precision and +15% crit damage. There’s also a +5% straight on base weapon damage. The +300 power by itself is something like 15% …

I could have made a mistake somewhere so feel free to check my results.

Did you by any chance forgot to add jewels to trinkets? Because fully ascended berserker has 85 more power, 47 more precision and 10% more crit damage.

I used the wiki page: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment#Attribute_bonuses
Trinkets alone go from 358 to 570 on the major stat, including jewels.

Edit: The wiki page needs recalculations they sum trinkets to 358, adding the 6 jewels correctly but rings only once, I think.

frans.8092:

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

I just put all the stats and formula’s in a spreadsheet, then combined for some gear simulations. I wanted something practical to help me choosing one prefix over another.
Acended has +300 Power, +70 Precision and +15% crit damage. There’s also a +5% straight on base weapon damage. The +300 power by itself is something like 15% …

I could have made a mistake somewhere so feel free to check my results.

Did you by any chance forgot to add jewels to trinkets? Because fully ascended berserker has 85 more power, 47 more precision and 10% more crit damage.

I used the wiki page: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment#Attribute_bonuses
Trinkets alone go from 358 to 570 on the major stat, including jewels.

Try to use this to see how many stat points you will get. Don’t forget to swap to PvE mode.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

All the posts crying how all of a sudden Ascended becomes unusable are ridiculous, forgot already what happened to MF gear?
If they end up nerfing it you will likely get the option to change your stats around, Do I think they will? nah, they will be coming with something that “levels the playing field” which is a good thing.

JoxerNL.3752:

All the posts crying how all of a sudden Ascended becomes unusable are ridiculous, forgot already what happened to MF gear?
If they end up nerfing it you will likely get the option to change your stats around, Do I think they will? nah, they will be coming with something that “levels the playing field” which is a good thing.

The only thing they can do that really levels the playing field, without introducing the trinity or punishing zerk players, would be to remove player choice in gear stats in pve. Make a one size fits all set that retains zerk stats but also have a baseline of toughness/vitality/healing power. Remove all other existing sets from pve. This prevents them from having to redesign encounters, reduces the need to stack due to an increase in baseline survival, removes all excuses for being bad/not contributing equally, lets people play how they want, eliminates all gear ping demands.

Honestly, all the other gear sets did was mislead players and provide the illusion of choice anyway.

Dalanor.5387:

frans.8092:

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

I just put all the stats and formula’s in a spreadsheet, then combined for some gear simulations. I wanted something practical to help me choosing one prefix over another.
Acended has +300 Power, +70 Precision and +15% crit damage. There’s also a +5% straight on base weapon damage. The +300 power by itself is something like 15% …

I could have made a mistake somewhere so feel free to check my results.

Did you by any chance forgot to add jewels to trinkets? Because fully ascended berserker has 85 more power, 47 more precision and 10% more crit damage.

I used the wiki page: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment#Attribute_bonuses
Trinkets alone go from 358 to 570 on the major stat, including jewels.

Try to use this to see how many stat points you will get. Don’t forget to swap to PvE mode.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

The wiki page did not add in the jewels in the trinket section, even though they were listed there. I’ll just fix the base numbers, skill editors do not show me what I want to know.

I still get more difference then you though?

frans.8092:

Facepalming at the wrong moment does not make you look smart. Do the numbers, I actually did, and come back if you find them very different, then I’ll look back at mine.

Throwing around stupid numbers in the first place is less smart. For the record, I get a difference of 13 – 14%, depending on whether you are desperate enough to put +5 power infusions into every single slot. That’s also what’s realistic, not ridiculously exaggerated stuff like 30%.

frans.8092:

Dalanor.5387:

frans.8092:

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

I just put all the stats and formula’s in a spreadsheet, then combined for some gear simulations. I wanted something practical to help me choosing one prefix over another.
Acended has +300 Power, +70 Precision and +15% crit damage. There’s also a +5% straight on base weapon damage. The +300 power by itself is something like 15% …

I could have made a mistake somewhere so feel free to check my results.

Did you by any chance forgot to add jewels to trinkets? Because fully ascended berserker has 85 more power, 47 more precision and 10% more crit damage.

I used the wiki page: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment#Attribute_bonuses
Trinkets alone go from 358 to 570 on the major stat, including jewels.

Try to use this to see how many stat points you will get. Don’t forget to swap to PvE mode.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

The wiki page did not add in the jewels in the trinket section, even though they were listed there. I’ll just fix the base numbers, skill editors do not show me what I want to know.

I still get more difference then you though?

It shows how many stats the exotic and ascended items gives, thus whats the difference between them.
Warrior with exotic GS, armor and trinkets + jewelry.
Warrior with ascended GS, armor and trinkets.

Difference is 85 power, 47 precision, 10% crit dmg and the bonus base damage from the weapon of course as haviz stated before me. Mind you, traits and damage modifiers can heavily effect the advantage that ascended gives.

I really hope that they know what they are doing, I think berserker/full offense stats combination should be the best risk vs reward. Why do everyone play Zerk in pve, because the risk is nonexistent, and we will have the same problem if they just make another stat combo more efficient.
Instead they can make using offensive stats combo be more risky.

• Avoid uninterrupted dps.
• Have monsters cleave, use Aoe.
• Make them apply conditions, especially poison, weakness and chill.
• Introduce multiphased encounters.
• Diversify the pve experience: zerker might be the best for killing but what about defending points/pnj, playing a large scale battle?
• Make generating high stack/duration of powerfull offensive/defensive boons only possible to builds/skills crafted around this kind of support (short duration→ everyone, long durations→specialized builds).

Or how about ANet don’t add more content that tears casual players in half, which the speed clearers will just treat as a speedbump and for them to stop annoying people with puzzle mechanics and obnoxious patches with changes nobody asked for?

They need to make defensive stats do damage – in a defensive manner.

Retaliation damage based on Toughness – Thorns.

Lifesteal traits based on Healing Power – Vampirism.

Vitality gives Fury an additional +1% Crit Dmg per point.

Or something along those lines……..

No one seems to be looking at the actual implication of the arguments:

“Defensive stats don’t matter. The real defense comes from skills and dodges.” Most see this. But hardly anyone sees the next step in the logic: the defensive stats actually have nothing to do with the actual effective defense.

So, instead, why not actually go solve the situation there:

Tie active, skill defense effectiveness to a stat. For example, let toughness assume the effect of both armor and HP amount, and make Vitality instead affect an initially low endurance regeneration rate.

Make the offensive characters ACTUALLY lose some of their defenses…

ipan.4356:

Lifesteal traits based on Healing Power – Vampirism.

Already exist in the necromancer profession, and ANet has nerfed it to pointlessness because they fear the uber-bunker combo of vampirism and Death Shroud.

fadeaway.2807:

Part of the problem also stems from the fact that in challenging pve (for example fotm49) bosses will oneshot a lot of people most of the time, even in pvt gear. If you’re not oneshotted, if you are not playing properly you will die instantly as a zerker or within a few seconds as a tank. Take grawl shaman for example, during his add phase. If you don’t stand on a reflect when those adds spawn, you have moments to live whatever spec you are – so why gear for defense?

I’d like to see overall damage changed from 1 massive one-shot hit every now and again to multiple smaller hits, thus reducing the reliance of dodge/aegis/blind… but then implementing 1 fairly hard hitting yet dodgeable (or CCable – remove defiant stacks for a few seconds) attack every now and again. Uncategorised fractal ogre (harpy level, first boss) is a good example of this. This would increase the usefulness of mitigation such as toughness and replenishment of health via heals.

Wow! You even gave the best solution to the “CC & Defiant” -problem that I’ve ever heard of.

Hire this guy!

Gw2 combat is amazing, no more trinity, everyone can do anything (is not ture but…lemme continue).
But, why remove the trinity to force everyone just go zerker?
Need more focus on supporters roles imho, and balance the dmg between classes (tone down war gs hunder blades or buff all the other classes as u like)
I kinda have enough to been asked to switch to war all the time, i don’t like war playstyle. Seriously. Thanks.

Aedil.1296:

Gw2 combat is amazing, no more trinity, everyone can do anything (is not ture but…lemme continue).
But, why remove the trinity to force everyone just go zerker?
Need more focus on supporters roles imho, and balance the dmg between classes (tone down war gs hunder blades or buff all the other classes as u like)
I kinda have enough to been asked to switch to war all the time, i don’t like war playstyle. Seriously. Thanks.

just because bads tell you warrior 100 swag es #1 huehuehue, it doesnt mean it is true.
tbh 100b is bad dps compared to pure axe or the dps of other professions.

Jure Simich.6154:

No one seems to be looking at the actual implication of the arguments:

“Defensive stats don’t matter. The real defense comes from skills and dodges.” Most see this. But hardly anyone sees the next step in the logic: the defensive stats actually have nothing to do with the actual effective defense.

So, instead, why not actually go solve the situation there:

Tie active, skill defense effectiveness to a stat. For example, let toughness assume the effect of both armor and HP amount, and make Vitality instead affect an initially low endurance regeneration rate.

Make the offensive characters ACTUALLY lose some of their defenses…

Why is it so important to bring others down to pvt level performance? PVT is not the standard…it is the crutch. Why would you want to break the functionality of every defensive utility unless people re-gear their characters? How is that fair to anyone? What would even be the point of that if the content is doable now without artificially trying to make defensive stats matter in pve.

CptAurellian.9537:

frans.8092:

Facepalming at the wrong moment does not make you look smart. Do the numbers, I actually did, and come back if you find them very different, then I’ll look back at mine.

Throwing around stupid numbers in the first place is less smart.

kitten u m i n g things about people and throwing accusations around is stupid. You made assumptions, were wrong with them and now you are not enough man to admit it.

For the record, I get a difference of 13 – 14%, depending on whether you are desperate enough to put +5 power infusions into every single slot.

How do you calculate the 13-14%?

+70 power is the equivalent of two stacks of might, not a lot but still (more then) +3% on your damage output. Would you consider the 5% on a sigil or runeset ‘desperate’? Are they still desperate when you add all those little % increases together?

Btw, if you find a 1% difference on 70 power you are doing something rather different.

That’s also what’s realistic, not ridiculously exaggerated stuff like 30%.

I don’t care how the results look, I’d rathere take the trouble to do the exercises and stop the guesswork.

(edit: the silly forum is eating part of my post)

frans.8092:

kitten u m i n g things about people and throwing accusations around is stupid. You made assumptions, were wrong with them and now you are not enough man to admit it.

Now it’s getting funny, who exactly was talking about 30% difference? Your second personality?

For the record, getting those results is pretty simple: Take a build calculator and an effective power calculator (or, to make it easier, both in one like buildcraft) and compare the same character with typical buffs (25 might, fury, banners, bloodlust stacks) both with full exotic and full ascended.

NoTrigger.8396:

Aedil.1296:

Gw2 combat is amazing, no more trinity, everyone can do anything (is not ture but…lemme continue).
But, why remove the trinity to force everyone just go zerker?
Need more focus on supporters roles imho, and balance the dmg between classes (tone down war gs hunder blades or buff all the other classes as u like)
I kinda have enough to been asked to switch to war all the time, i don’t like war playstyle. Seriously. Thanks.

just because bads tell you warrior 100 swag es #1 huehuehue, it doesnt mean it is true.
tbh 100b is bad dps compared to pure axe or the dps of other professions.

Hundred blades is around ~10% better DPS than axe auto, but if you don’t use it as part of the proper rotation (so … GS auto spam + HB off cd) then your DPS will drop below just camping axe.

Frotee.2634:

Guys, no one wants to take away you super-dps toy (aka zerker gear).
All anyone wants is to take away your reason to scorn anyone who would rather play with a different toy.
Because having only one gear/build choice be really viable in the eyes of pretty much everyone (thus inducing scorn for people who favour a different build and playstyle) is just plain boring.
I really doubt that zerker gear is suddenly going to become useless – balancing a game is, after all, all about balancing the proficiency of different choices, thereby favouring an increase in viability and usefulness of other stat combos and playstyles.

This needs a thumbs up. +1

frans.8092:

Btw, if you find a 1% difference on 70 power you are doing something rather different.

Usually, my ele has around 3338 power (about 20 might stacks plus banner of strength).

3338 / 3268 = 1.021419829

So the difference between full ascended and full exotics solely on power increase is around 2%.

The way i play (and feel free to judge) is that if you don’t ignore tactics and bring something to the fight, maybe heals or shouts or perhaps even the ability to take a few hits for the team, then you are most welcome in my dungeon groups. i think that players should play a build that they feel suits their play style not what is the “meta” at that point.

in pve you only survive with weapons and utilities skills….

CptAurellian.9537:

Now it’s getting funny, who exactly was talking about 30% difference? Your second personality?

I am talking about your " throwing around some phantasmal numbers " – I take offence at that and have reported it as such.

For the record, getting those results is pretty simple: Take a build calculator and an effective power calculator

How is this ‘effective power’ defined?

(or, to make it easier, both in one like buildcraft) and compare the same character with typical buffs (25 might, fury, banners, bloodlust stacks) both with full exotic and full ascended.

You have all buffs up all of the time? I don’t think so.

frans.8092:

You have all buffs up all of the time? I don’t think so.

If you exclude the time when you skip mobs and first few seconds of the combat, then yes, you should have all those buffs easily. If, however, you are still stuck in 2012 and you stack warriors with mesmer, there is virtually not a single second when you don’t have 24-25 might stacks, fury, both banners, etc.

I also did the numbers myself, the only way I can see a 30% gain is if you accidentally forgot that exotic trinkets don’t come with an upgrade and didn’t give them one.

Here are the effective power numbers for my 10/30/0/5/25 guardian in my standard group:

exotic no upgrade
14836

exotic with ruby orbs in trinkets
16956

full ascended armor/trinkets
17955

full ascended armor/trinkets/weapon
18894

I trust you can figure out the percentage differences by yourself?

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

You have all buffs up all of the time? I don’t think so.

If you exclude the time when you skip mobs and first few seconds of the combat, then yes, you should have all those buffs easily. If, however, you are still stuck in 2012 and you stack warriors with mesmer, there is virtually not a single second when you don’t have 24-25 might stacks, fury, both banners, etc.

Really? And you’ll go bash some mobs before jumping in to defend garri? And were should we get 25 might stacks up 24/7 unless when in a zerg? There’s hardly a moment when I do have 25 might stacks up. We don’t all have Guardians.

Should probably also point out that this thread is for pve zerkers, and the pve zerker meta isn’t really a problem when defending garrisons in wvw..

frans.8092:

Really? And you’ll go bash some mobs before jumping in to defend garri? And were should we get 25 might stacks up 24/7 unless when in a zerg? There’s hardly a moment when I do have 25 might stacks up. We don’t all have Guardians.

Are you talking about WvW? Because this thread is called “PvE Zerkers”.

fadeaway.2807:

Should probably also point out that this thread is for pve zerkers, and the pve zerker meta isn’t really a problem when defending garrisons in wvw..

Maybe he meant defending the garrison during the human’s tutorial?

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

Really? And you’ll go bash some mobs before jumping in to defend garri? And were should we get 25 might stacks up 24/7 unless when in a zerg? There’s hardly a moment when I do have 25 might stacks up. We don’t all have Guardians.

Are you talking about WvW? Because this thread is called “PvE Zerkers”.

True. Yeah, forgot that.

I honestly have trouble envisioning how this could be fixed in any productive manner without breaking another portion of the game.

Dodge mechanic and universal heal make gear irrelevant. I can put on whatever gear I want, and whatever traits I want and I can still survive bosses by knowing which heal skill to bring and when to dodge. So if gear does not matter for surviveability than why not go DPS? However if you change the dodge or heal mechanics you are going to break things in WvW and PvP.

frans.8092:

Oh, and thank you for you constructive contributions, it’s been a real pleasure and I am so looking forward to future discussions with you. both of you.

Glad you got something useful out of it. I’m usually around the guardian forums telling people why zerker gear rocks if you ever want to come and post a celestial build or something. We can further discuss how much dps you gain and lose each way.

Oh, I didn’t actually report you. It was a joke poking fun at how readily you report people. Don’t worry about it.

haviz.1340:

frans.8092:

Really? And you’ll go bash some mobs before jumping in to defend garri? And were should we get 25 might stacks up 24/7 unless when in a zerg? There’s hardly a moment when I do have 25 might stacks up. We don’t all have Guardians.

Are you talking about WvW? Because this thread is called “PvE Zerkers”.

Well according to Anet WvW = PVE so all changes there will affect both sides. Makes me want to wait for further gearing my toons untill more details about these changes are known.

aspirine.6852:

Well according to Anet WvW = PVE so all changes there will affect both sides. Makes me want to wait for further gearing my toons untill more details about these changes are known.

Then why aren’t we discussing the dominance of soldier’s gear? Or the uselessness of zerker’s gear?

Here is the solution to the zerker problem https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dodging-in-dungeons/first#post3488936

I think that if Anet changes Ascended Armor to the stats of exotic, there will be a revolt. People were already up in arms that they implemented the armor, and if they changed it again, I think it would really stir up a hornets nest.

What I think needs to happen is to make the condition builds stronger. Maybe each person has their own personal stack of bleed/fire/poison, etc. You wouldn’t have to worry about capping at 25.

condition and pet build actualy. They need to make it so that indirect damage becomes viable so to make direct dps less obvious of a choice.

fadeaway.2807:

What would you say to frequent low damage attacks which are enough to kill you via attrition if you don’t bring enough toughness/healing, mixed with a dodgeable high damage attack?

What would you say to a boss that kills everyone in the room if he isn’t beaten in less than 20s ?

I’m worried alll the gold and time spent for full Ascended Berserker will be all for naught.

Please be gentle, ANET.

we enter TA today a guardian an elementalist a thief a mesmer and another guy that i dont even remember what class he is and before we even start he says “enjoy the slow show guys” and he leaves, we found an engineer at his place and we did the dungeon just fine.
id say keep them a bit more like because this type of players belong no where but in block lists.

stof.9341:

fadeaway.2807:

What would you say to frequent low damage attacks which are enough to kill you via attrition if you don’t bring enough toughness/healing, mixed with a dodgeable high damage attack?

What would you say to a boss that kills everyone in the room if he isn’t beaten in less than 20s ?

The point is that it’s not supposed to be possible to burst down a boss before it can kill you. Right now that’s easily possible by pushing something up against a wall, using a couple of dodges, an aegis, and outputting very high damage numbers. When you have small attacks for less damage alongside the big, telegraphed ones, it forces you to choose what is worth dodging and what needs to be tanked. If implemented correctly, this would discourage full zerker parties because there’d have to be at least 1 person able to survive the damage taken from the smaller, more consistent attacks.

So you want ANet to change the dungeon design so that you require the presence of a tank in the group? Maybe you want a healer too?

stof.9341:

So you want ANet to change the dungeon design so that you require the presence of a tank in the group? Maybe you want a healer too?

We already have both of those.