Guild Wars 2

Please write your opinions about this, the more , the bigger the chance of this getting balanced before summer.

Constructive part for Anet
-Too fast decap (10-15s max)
-Cant be killed by 1 !!!! NO RISK
-CANT be killed by 2 fast !! NO COUNTER
-Semi-counter = not fight him … wtf???
- 1 man can kill fun/effort for 9 ppl. AFKers deal less harm, since 4v5 are over fast
-Balance aside , it is very “not fun” getting CCed alltime , maybe this one will help , since “fun” is central design it this game

non-constructive part
-I will try to restrain myself , but i may snap at some future point
-ill keep bumping it with specs i played against eniges , and how succesfull ive been

Edit- For the non-believers:
http://www.twitch.tv/xerrex/c/3522482

Stability? Knock them off the point?
GG

A profession with a 4sec Stability on a 30sec cooldown, and you’re problem is getting it of a point when its alone?

Not evrybody has stability, Not evrybody has knockbacks.

Decap engi are a serious problem to be honest.

Unless you have a warrior defending the close point with its crazy stability uptime, you just can’t prevent the engineer to get a decap or even a full-cap. Even if someone comes to help the close point defender, you take an insane amount of time to put the engineer down to the point it is not even worth the time to defend the close point.

When there is a decap engineer assaulting a node and we have no warrior available, the best thing to do is to just leave the point to the engineer which is pretty sad.

The textual quality of the original post is amazing.
I am blown away by the amount of effort which went into this post. A post of the highest quality, made better by the considerable time which went into proof-reading it.

Let me paraphrase it to see whether I got everything:

• sPvP matters and matters solely, rabble rabble.
• Engineers don’t have enough problems, rabble rabble.
• I was killed and I think that should be changed.
• Did I mention that I was killed? It’s quite unfair, I am playing this game for my enjoyment, how dare someone defeat me?
• I was killed!

Domey.9804:

Not evrybody has stability, Not evrybody has knockbacks.

Is this in the famous 1v1 BG mode where you cannot communicate to your team that you need someone to knock the Engineer off the point?
Because I heard that mode is quite unbalanced. Good thing ANet didn’t go forward with implementing it!

Yes there is a problema with enginniers. ANet should brought them more in line in the future patch.

The first post is very hard to understand.

I’m a new engineer and am curious exactly what sort of build is being discussed here, can anyone link one that’s relevant? Thanks.

Qaelyn.7612:

The first post is very hard to understand.

I’m a new engineer and am curious exactly what sort of build is being discussed here, can anyone link one that’s relevant? Thanks.

Something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqya3zyuF87IxoCdO0jCbf1K6R+tsjB-TkAA1CoIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+A

You are hard to kill by direct damage because of protection + armor + evades.
You have AP against condtions.

With rifle #4, FT #3 and Big Bomb you can decap even against 2 people.

with regenration + bombing all the time + trait + EG #5 >5xx hp per sec

Qaelyn.7612:

The first post is very hard to understand.

I’m a new engineer and am curious exactly what sort of build is being discussed here, can anyone link one that’s relevant? Thanks.

I don’t know exactly which build is, but it is all about being as tanky as possible while having loads of knockbacks coupled with immobilize.

I’ve seen many variants and, depending on the build, but most of them run with Acceletant-Packed Turrets, Bomb Kit (with Elixir-Infused bombs), Flamethrower and Rifle as weapon. Some of them even use Thumper turret for even more knockbacks or Elixir Gun for extra survivability.

The point is that you can’t even take a step on the node if you don’t have stability.

Thanks. Looks like a fairly standard tanky build, and not that different from the one I want to try. Don’t shoot me.

I was thinking of it more as being able to hold a point rather than decapping other points, though.

If they’re going to nerf the ability of the engineer to do this, then what role should engineers play? They’re supposed to be a flexible class, and it’s not like other characters can’t also decap points.

Plus, as others have said, they lack stability themselves.

You should go for toolkit if you like to hold a point. This build is not good as a bunker because you die in focus damage very fast. You are killable in 1vs1. It is much weaker as the guardian builds are.

This build is only for decapping and it is like an old movie. In the end you die. You do not win a 1vs1 with this build you only survive and decap (or maybe fullcap) a point.

Qaelyn.7612:

Thanks. Looks like a fairly standard tanky build, and not that different from the one I want to try. Don’t shoot me.

I was thinking of it more as being able to hold a point rather than decapping other points, though.

If they’re going to nerf the ability of the engineer to do this, then what role should engineers play? They’re supposed to be a flexible class, and it’s not like other characters can’t also decap points.

Plus, as others have said, they lack stability themselves.

PS: If you get them off the point, you can immob them long enough to decap + halfcap it.

funtimes

sorrow.2364:

Decap engi are a serious problem to be honest.

Unless you have a warrior defending the close point with its crazy stability uptime, you just can’t prevent the engineer to get a decap or even a full-cap. Even if someone comes to help the close point defender, you take an insane amount of time to put the engineer down to the point it is not even worth the time to defend the close point.

When there is a decap engineer assaulting a node and we have no warrior available, the best thing to do is to just leave the point to the engineer which is pretty sad.

Honestly I think you are completely wrong. The problem here is that it kind of counters the current meta including bunker guardians. If guardians would take the stunbreak teleport more often for example they would counter this quite abit. Also you can totally kill those engis with 2 competent people.

You can kill this engi alone but the point is decapped for sure.

Lupanic.6502:

You can kill this engi alone but the point is decapped for sure.

Then what about this situation is not balanced.

Dojo.1867:

Lupanic.6502:

You can kill this engi alone but the point is decapped for sure.

Then what about this situation is not balanced.

I guess because it is a counter for condition necros and other condition classes that used to be the main point holder. Now they will not be killed by this engi, but they cannot sit on the point and 1111111 and win.

Lupanic.6502:

I guess because it is a counter for condition necros and other condition classes that used to be the main point holder. Now they will not be killed by this engi, but they cannot sit on the point and 1111111 and win.

Counters?

Preposterous!!!

Carighan.6758:

Lupanic.6502:

I guess because it is a counter for condition necros and other condition classes that used to be the main point holder. Now they will not be killed by this engi, but they cannot sit on the point and 1111111 and win.

Counters?

Preposterous!!!

You can kill this engi with a glass cannon build very easy. Much faster as a guardian.

For sure not in 5sec. But this is a bunker build and it means it should not be killed very fast.

Dojo.1867:

Honestly I think you are completely wrong. The problem here is that it kind of counters the current meta including bunker guardians. If guardians would take the stunbreak teleport more often for example they would counter this quite abit. Also you can totally kill those engis with 2 competent people.

No, no no.
A stunbreaker really isn’t enough at all. The only real counter is high stability uptime.

Anything the engineer do creates a knockback.
You have a knockback on the rifle (15s cooldown), a knockback on Big ’ol Bomb (30s cooldown), a knockback when you use your elite and any turret is killed (120s cooldown), a knockback on Flamethrower (15s cooldown) and a knockback on healing skill (15s cooldown).
If you take Thumper turret, you have another double knockback (when activated and when destroyed).

That is an hell lot of CC, which can put any profession without good stability uptime in serious difficulties to stand on node or even just put enough pressure on the engineer to kill him. It is still a bunker build, which is extremely tough to kill considering also the insane amounts of CCs it provides.

You just can’t kill the engineer alone unless you’re a warrior with double stability, while still struggling to do so.

Edit- For the non-believers:
http://www.twitch.tv/xerrex/c/3522482
This guys is one of the best players, there are build variations ofc.

Again the point is not in him killing , the point is him holding your home against even a beast 1v1 spec like MM necro , and even sending 2 ppl to kill him, will take too much time, meaning you have a 4v3 on mid or 2v2 +2v1 somewhere else.

Just look on the scoreboard and map. The game-mode is “conquest” , dont tunnel vision on killing.

I still fail to see the problem. Seriously. he’s maaaaybe slightly too good at tanking, but the difference is marginal at best. Doesn’t seem to be worth dev time to even take a look at, considering what much larger balance issues remain in much larger game modes than sPvP.

You could also create a decap guard with Hammer| x\schield and decap points. Also hard to counter and able to decap every point in no time. Same issue

OK, so up till now we have:

1) Counter fire with fire: pray your team has same decaper , and whoever decides to fight on their point, loses. So 2 players just run circles whole time

2) Warior with its balanced 25s stability can hold point capped long enough for help to arrive. So pray u got min 2 wariors on team.

3) I main power necro, full zerker 2x wells. Simply for whipping whole teams. This allows us to come 3v1 home, and fast. Problem?
-The wins are more due worse team on engie side
-They come storming mid back together and kill 2v4 some1 before we come back

4) Ive had somewhat succes running leetos d/d power build. I basicaly do the same as him:
-decap far with spectral pull (30s CD , engie got 2x 15s to compare)
-unlike decaper , im useful in teamfights.
-With speed runes , its a fast encro who can help win secondary objectives. Still 50/50 strategie against losing home all time

Yeah, this build is pretty broken and there’s no real counter to it.

Lupanic.6502:

You could also create a decap guard with Hammer| x\schield and decap points. Also hard to counter and able to decap every point in no time. Same issue

2x 15s knocbaks with ZERO animations/ instant
3s block on 16s CD
Condition immunity

The guard hammer has 1s animation, it was useful before the launch-stunbreak update. Its nowhere near as efective:
-decaps slower, if at all
-it can be killed 1v1 , but 2v1 it dies “fast enough”
-its a bit slow to walk back to far

My god. Now engies are op. Because they go against condition meta.
Without tool kit and shield offhand you can’t dream to survive against any decent direct damage. And absolutely no defense against range or aoe. And due to very low volume of attacks they are extremely vulnerable to blind.
Condition meta must be stoppable, and engi is the only one who does it adequately now.

Flumek.9043:

Lupanic.6502:

You could also create a decap guard with Hammer| x\schield and decap points. Also hard to counter and able to decap every point in no time. Same issue

2x 15s knocbaks with ZERO animations/ instant
3s block on 16s CD
Condition immunity

The guard hammer has 1s animation, it was useful before the launch-stunbreak update. Its nowhere near as efective:
-decaps slower, if at all
-it can be killed 1v1 , but 2v1 it dies “fast enough”
-its a bit slow to walk back to far

With scepter+schield you can pushback+ immob very easy. Hammer prevent reenter the point = decap. Launch is slow but still usefull. Rest could be like for Bunker build and this means you are harder to kill as the engi

Lupanic.6502:

With scepter+schield you can pushback+ immob very easy. Hammer prevent reenter the point = decap. Launch is slow but still usefull. Rest could be like for Bunker build and this means you are harder to kill as the engi

Not true at all.
First, if you run scepter+shield and hammer, you have no swiftness, meaning that you are extremely slow to get on points.

Secondly, the cooldowns are extremely higher.
Net Shot is half the cooldown of Chain of Light.
Banish is on 25s cooldown, while shield knockback is on 40s cooldown, compared to 15s and 15s on engineer.
Not to say that you’re not considering Big ’ol Bomb.

They are nowhere comparable.

Xerrex’s video is good and he is obviously a good player.

To call that build unkillable in 1 vs 1 is just not believable argument. Even the video shows Xerrex very close to death and dying many times. And Xerrex is playing the engi really well and some of the enemies are playing badly. This build is no simple press 1, 2 and win and it is mostly CC, not much any burst potential.

Together medkit + elixir gun provide a lot of healing, but very little condition cleansing. EG #5 light field removes 1 condition every 20 seconds. If you want most out of medkit you need to spend a lot of time healing, which means less time to dps enemy. Medkit drop antidote removes just one condition and requires to move over the antidote, so immobilize, knockback etc. prevent that. Perhaps the enemies don’t understand that because most engineer use healing turret in pvp?

Immobilize and target fire and the engi is dead. Toss elixir R removes just one condition on impact at 120 s cooldown.

Overall I am actually happy that there is now might be a valid pvp build for power-based rifle engineer. There has been way too many pistol/shield condi tank engi builds. This game needs more build variety instead of pigeon holing engis into condi spam tanks.

My ability to keep you off the cap for a relatively long period of time is tied to all the blasting knock backs I can take, all the AE blinds and chills and other conditions that ensure if you do get thru the knockbacks you won’t have time to stop me etc.

I may die, but I will get that point decapped. The best you can do is beat me to throwing me around like a wet noodle with your knock backs, pulls etc. Short of that, IN PVP, the relatively short time to decap I am going to survive. And as an engineer, I can probably handle a bit more outnumbered odds to get that decap.

And I am certainly not the best engineer (though I did watch one on Youtube lol).

Here is the reason it happens frankly. As an engineer, I have 3 kits and 20+ skills that give me far more sources of knocking you back or pulling you than another class would have. But a lot of them are smaller., It is when I add a trait or two that for purposes of decapping in PvP things get wonky quickly. Accelerant packed turrets does allow me to go to extremes for decapping.

I would add our elite supply crate but that is getting changed.

The logical thing to look at is the knockback of accelerant packed turrets. It could be changed to a condition or all sorts of things to make it fair. That being said, the issue is really limited to PvP (but that is important in and of itself).

The other thing you could do that would benefit multiple parts of the game is to limit the number of times you could be knocked back or feared or otherwise get the same type of CC on you in a period of time.

In this thread: people that get actually knocked back by big old bomb. Wow!

Accelerant-packed turrets was moved from Master to Adept trait in order to accommodate the move of Incendiary Powder to Master. GG.

A class that specs specifically for control and defense is therefore good at holding/uncapping points, and that is an issue? A warrior can stunlock someone for just as long as be just as hard to kill, and has plenty of stability, and if stability isnt the counter to this kind of spec I dont know what else would be.

This spec of engy in that video has no stun breaks, no stability and almost no condi removal, so it takes a huge skill cap to do something like that, especially without running the p/s combo. Ive tried a similar spec (admittedly im not a great or even good player in spvp), and if you make a mistake and get cc’d at the wrong its extremely hard to recover. AR is great to become immune to conditions under 25% but it doesnt remove them, so its good vs necros sometimes but other times when you hit 25% you already have so many condis on you youre dead anyway without using lyssa runes + elite to save yourself.

Also net turret/supply drop is getting a nerf in the next patch so that will be a step in nerfing them, and in the recent patches engies got their perma vigor nerfed to 50% uptime, along with a nerf to IP, so its not like the devs are unaware of the class. I wouldnt be surprised if they nerf a few more things in the future, though hopefully they buff power specs as well.

Today summary:

-Had the joy of one being in our party. Won 4-0 with staff eles vs. double warior matches

@Sizer:

Im probaly more than 3 steps behind your levels of play , but if the only counter to these decappers is to:
-become top competitive
-perfect VoIP synced team , even with the recent addition to maps showing enemys , which was obviously aimed at pug play
-run 2x warr setup

then, i think i have the right to complain.

And ill even play on the “im a casual , this is not fun” card, if it gets me better treatment from Arenanet. Im aware of the nerfs and i hope more will come. To all professions… Gotta start somewhere

Are we all sure that it is not a problem of decap mechanics instead?

If two “decap” engineers meet at a node, which one caps the node?

In any case, this comes down a lot to the team. In the first match of the video, if the enemy team had ignored the guy, they could 4v5 the rest of the team. If the engineer’s allies start losing those other two nodes, he/she can’t afford to just sit idly and guard one node. If the engineer leaves the node, it leaves it vulnerable to being backcapped. You can see that this actually happened in the second match in the video where the engineer left the quarry to go to the graveyard because the enemies were holding two nodes and him sitting on the quarry would’ve not been helping his team out at all.

It also died pretty quickly to the thief and engg combo in the second match in the video, partly because it relies on Lyssa runes for condi removal. Both those professions can be made pretty mobile, so it might not be too inconvenient for someone help take down the engg.

While this build can be powerful, it’s dependent on the success of the rest of the team. If the other two nodes aren’t being held, it won’t matter that this build can be used to maintain control of the third node.

decap engi does not = team win

How dare a class be good at something they spec for specifically. He is trading his damage for control, which is how it should be. Other classes take the jack of all trades approach and then wonder why they can’t beat someone who specialized specifically to stop that build. Someone beats your meta build? They must be OP because there’s no way in hell they’re just more skilled that you.

Is the spec annoying to fight against? Yes. Is it going to kill you or be unkillable? Probably not. He built to be a tanky bunker and that is what he is.

Flumek.9043:

Today summary:

@Sizer:

Im probaly more than 3 steps behind your levels of play , but if the only counter to these decappers is to:
-become top competitive
-perfect VoIP synced team , even with the recent addition to maps showing enemys , which was obviously aimed at pug play
-run 2x warr setup

then, i think i have the right to complain.

And ill even play on the “im a casual , this is not fun” card, if it gets me better treatment from Arenanet. Im aware of the nerfs and i hope more will come. To all professions… Gotta start somewhere

Fun fact. The Sizer you are probably referring to is Sizer.2654 (not Sizer.5632).
That guy has a whopping amount of 13 matches played overall in Team Arena.

Had 3 today:

- 2x on my team , we win ofc, 1 even carryed us with a warr camping home whole game, losing to spirit ranger in less than my respawn time, lost 2 boses. Luckily they also had an ele , who rallyd us to a 3 cap

- 1 on each team
Yes they did just run past each other from far to close. We lost due to buffs, but at least the fire vs fire strategy is curently on top with its 50% succes rate

sorrow.2364:

Fun fact. The Sizer you are probably referring to is Sizer.2654 (not Sizer.5632).
That guy has a whopping amount of 13 matches played overall in Team Arena.

thx for the hint. how do u even notice that?

Maybe a 2nd account? The post is well written , decap engie isnt a problem a hotjoiner would care about and the argument “just send a warr over” sounds like CM to me.

Flumek.9043:

sorrow.2364:

Fun fact. The Sizer you are probably referring to is Sizer.2654 (not Sizer.5632).
That guy has a whopping amount of 13 matches played overall in Team Arena.

thx for the hint. how do u even notice that?

Maybe a 2nd account? The post is well written , decap engie isnt a problem a hotjoiner would care about and the argument “just send a warr over” sounds like CM to me.

Yeah, “send a warr” sounds a lot like CM, but it’s probably just a casuality.

I don’t think that Sizer would admit that he’s not a good player in PvP when he’s actually No. 4 in the leaderboard. That would sound stupid at least.

So I checked the full name of Sizer, and he had different digits. Then I searched his name on GW2shack and found out they are completely different people.

this build is stupidly easy to counter people are just used to brain dead builds

for examples necros not using the well that changes all boons into conditions

also why is it wrong for a purely built for defense engineer to be tanky but its perfectly fine if a necro warrior guardian do it?

I see people bringing up bunker Guardians here and there.

If you don’t run a bunker Guardian (blasphemy, I know, but I’ve been occasionally rolled by skilled offensive specced Guardians, kudos to them); with the sheer amount of damage and blind a guardian can put out ~simultaneously~, along with access to pretty decent passive blocks, guardian honestly has no excuse not to be able to take out this spec.

And it’s not as if Engineers have a legitimate source of boon removal/control. That tacky landmine trait is worthless.

So there’s an idea. However I do ~understand~ the frustration (doesn’t mean I support the complains).

I’d happily take a reduction in the effectiveness of such specs if some of our weapon kits were drastically improved though. Aside from Grenade Kit however.

Lost 2-3 today , with the decaper team always wining. But we all knew that, heres somethign new:

I specced for 40% stability on necro, I had waterfall (fence helps a lot) , I had good and fast thief who could finish him , I once kill him solo , once even hold for +2min with holding point for us, I can say played perfectly landing my interupt and currupts. We lost 330-333 due to a last second stomp and him also getting a 1s decap about 50s
before end. Mid was never held. Good game , not knowing the winner till last second is what makes games/sports interesting

Now the question , aside that we lost/had equaly close match even with the stars alligning for me, is:

Do you now small-cat-ing see how “effective” this is? HOW BIG the point loss is?

I know such games on legacy aint nothing new and I love close games ending with timer , I just cant see designing 15-minute matches to end score at 60%.

Won 1 today. Only took 3x warrs and a 6-cap on temple

Im a necro and im necroing this thread.

Why? Cz i play most balanced class warior for last week, and score is 21-4 for decap engie teams. And even the losing matches were very close, despite 6x caps on temple and 2x eles on enemy team.

24-4 without comments

Watching the tournaments from the last weak. Both teams with decap engi lost. Maybe you should watch the games to know how to counter them.