Guild Wars 2

I just feel that when I am in PvP matches/tournaments, if I have one or two people on me and I get turned into a Moa; there is no stopping my imminent death. I propose to remove it from PvP, or allow us players to use our utility skills, or make less time spent in Moa form, or give the Moa some skills that can actually create some survivability. I realize you can use one of the skills that lets you run away, but even then you’re still on death row when in Moa form.

Great points made from Menzies the Heratic:

Thats quite an ignorant post, as you will spend 10 seconds as an immobilized chicken being CC’d to death. An no utility/heal/elite can save you. No matter how familiar you are with the MOA skills.
And people stating:
- the skill can be dodged
- the skill has a long cooldown
- the skill has a long cast and obvious animation
only support the statement of the skill being too useless.
This skill is okay-ish in a 1v1 situation. And totally kittening rubbish in any other imaginable scenario.
Those of you still supporting this skill are afraid of improvement or come to brag how well you are playing when you are being MOA’d. Well enjoy!

Especially for classes that rely on abilities for damage avoidance. A warrior being moa’d? Meh. They can probably wait it out. A thief or ele getting moa’d?

Check please.

It should force (and allow) a “flee combat or die” scenario, but right now it’s way too harsh an ability, especially when it can easily be cast while the caster is stealthed.

They might as well bring back Quickness to 100% because it’s equally as deadly.

bump

.

Razor.6392:

Oh gosh please. I wish there was a way to filter out the least skilled players from posting on this specific forum section.

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

No I’m not “basically” saying that. I AM saying that a skill that leaves you 100% defenceless for a number of seconds is overpowered (see the suggestions I made). I don’t think you know what “good” mesmers run considering you don’t play mesmer? Please refrain from trying to start an argument on here with me, I don’t have time to argue with the ignorance of people who can’t give a reasonable response.

If you really came here to trash talk, and think I am a “least skilled player” I would be happy to duel you in pvp, my username is Jelzouki.

Jelzouki.4128:

Razor.6392:

Oh gosh please. I wish there was a way to filter out the least skilled players from posting on this specific forum section.

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

No I’m not “basically” saying that. I AM saying that a skill that leaves you 100% defenceless for a number of seconds is overpowered (see the suggestions I made). I don’t think you know what “good” mesmers run considering you don’t play mesmer? Please refrain from trying to start an argument on here with me, I don’t have time to argue with the ignorance of people who can’t give a reasonable response.

If you really came here to trash talk, and think I am a “least skilled player” I would be happy to duel you in pvp, my username is Jelzouki.

This skill is suited for PvP. It’s useless in PvE, it even makes the most mobs stronger. If you ban this skill from PvP it will become useless. Deal with it. -1

It probably does need looking at as it is a hard counter to one profession.

Off topic slightly how does it interact with guardian spirit weapons/ranger spirits/etcs?

@Razor stop trying to use skill level as an insult and if you can get your way about there being skill level requirements for forum posting I would counter with any use of the words skill, bads and casuals in a insulting or inflammatory way should equally limit where and how often individuals can post. So how about we keep discussion open and friendly? If we can’t keep your Skirtt to yourself.

omg seriously again moa qq. ok anet, please remove this useless troll elite from mes and give us something useful instead.

signed mesmer

I haven’t even bothered leveling my mesmer up yet, so i can’t really speak from the perspective from a mesmer. But i’ve been moaed before in a fight, yeah it sucks. It doesn’t need to be nerfed though. I get annoyed when i’m dumb enough to get hit with it, but it’s usually my fault for not paying attention. Its an elite skill, elites should change the tide of battle. 1 on 1 if a mesmer moas you, you can ALWAYS get away. Its only a problem if more than 1 person is on you and you get moaed, and you probably would have died anyway in that situation, moa or not.

This skill is practically a 10 seconds UNBREAKABLE daze.
It may be useless in sPvP, it may be just a troll skill or whatever.

It is not a balanced skill no mater the CD, or cast time. The only reason they do not change it is because is not a popular skill in sPvP, and they only balance/change what is annoying in this game mode.

It’s an elite
It has a long casttime and 180s Cooldown
It can be interrupted, dodged or just fail by blinding the mesmer
It has 1 “escape skill”, the leap skill can also be usefull and you can use dodges

Minion Necros shouldnt complain, as a profession which is running around with its ELITE most of the time shouldnt complain about other elites

Thieves shouldnt complain, as they usually have the better cards against a mesmer and in addition, i think thieves guild isnt that much less strong than moa. Or if they use Basilisk venom, they have a stun, a complete condi remove and a total buff boost on a kitten CD thanks to lyssa runes.

A lot of Eles use glyph of elemental (or how is it called), making a 1 vs 1 fight into a 2 vs 1 fight.

Guardians: I only say: Aegis

In addition I’d like to mention, Mesmers elites suck in general, as they usally have very specific uses.
Mass invisibility and Time warp are usually only good if you are in a group fight, as in other scenarios (like 1 vs 1) they are just wasted.
Mass invisibility might be nice also in 1vs 1. However, a ~3s (?) CD on a 90s Cooldown is pretty bad in my opinion.
Moas best use is for killing a bunker or countering other players, however I’d instantly trade Moa for something like basilisk venom wich is basicly always usefull no matter what scale the combat is.

I can’t tell you how much just letting you jump in Moa Form would help.

Razor.6392:

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

If this is logic that would mean that if anet implemented a 360ish seconds cd ELITE skill, it should instakill you. It also means that you currently have no problems with a skill that provides no way to avoid getting ganked. Removes your utility skills and disables jumping.

I hope you get MOA’d in the duel and get wanded down before you can do anything but peck.

There should be a trainer in Lion’s Arch that will turn you into a moa so you can actually take the time to read the skills and their descriptions while moa’d

Seriously…. is anyone still running with Moa????

Marsares.2053:

Seriously…. is anyone still running with Moa????

If not, then delete the entire skill and replace it with something usefull.
If so, then delete the skill because its super annoying and replace it with something usefull.

Frankly, it’s the only thing that insta-kills me. I’ve been run over by 40 man zergs and can survive it. Stun breakers, gap creators, etc, all work wonders. All of those are gone when Moa’d.

So yes, it’s a stupid skill and shouldn’t be used. But it can be one helluva troll-tool.

For real, pretty much the only reason to run it against people that actually know what they are doing is to kill minions. Other than that, it is simply inferior to the other elites. I have died possibly four times total as a direct result of being Moa’d, because all the skill actually does is remove ranged abilities and confuse noobs. I can guarantee you that if you take a few seconds to learn the moa skills, you will find yourself killing people with it.

Also the mesmer bot in the mists will moa you if you don’t have a mesmer friend to practice with.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Razor.6392:

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

If this is logic that would mean that if anet implemented a 360ish seconds cd ELITE skill, it should instakill you. It also means that you currently have no problems with a skill that provides no way to avoid getting ganked. Removes your utility skills and disables jumping.

I hope you get MOA’d in the duel and get wanded down before you can do anything but peck.

He specifically mentioned being attacked by TWO people at once when moa’d.

It’s a pretty punishing skill vs ele if we aren’t even paying attention to the mesmer casting it. I don’t know about you guys, but I may be fighting someone else and a mesmer sneaks up and moa’s me. I would like to see utility slots kept so moa can be broken.

Think of a game like WoW. Everything in the game has a counter from invulnerabilities to all types of crowd control. This game, just likes to give you the shaft. Play meta or GTFO right?

Edit: Just got moa’d from stealth. GW2 at its finest.

Razor.6392:

Jelzouki.4128:

I don’t think you know what “good” mesmers run considering you don’t play mesmer?

I think I lost braincells. So you have to play mesmer in order to face good mesmers?

I’ll accept your duel. Judging by your mindset you seem to be a very illogical and/or stupid person so I’m sure it’s gonna be extremely easy.

Okay, and judging by how often you feel the need to use insults, I can tell something about you too o.O

And just for your information, you said you don’t play mesmer, so i’m thinking you don’t know what good mesmers use since you don’t use mesmer. You read my response completely wrong, I’m thinking you’re the less intelligent one here. PM me in-game.

As an Ele for whom Moa = death, I’m still OK with that ability due to 180 sec cooldown. That’s a very long cooldown considering it can be blinded, dodged, blocked or invuln’d. Mesmer is going to be banging their head into their keyboard whenever their elite gets completely wasted like that, it’s a high-risk high-reward ability.

I think moa morph would be more interesting and less cheese if its duration was reduced from 10 to 4 seconds and its recharge from 180 to 60 seconds.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

I think moa morph would be more interesting and less cheese if its duration was reduced from 10 to 4 seconds and its recharge from 180 to 60 seconds.

You do realize its not a 10 second knockdown skill right? you get a escape skill you can even kill the Mesmer while in moa morph its nothing op about it. but it could need a duration decrease still. When is mesmers ever using this skill ? rank 10 in hotjoin maybe that must be the only place.

I’d second that Doctor.

I think the skill is funny – it should just be 3 or 4 seconds instead of 10.

Jelzouki.4128:

No I’m not “basically” saying that. I AM saying that a skill that leaves you 100% defenceless for a number of seconds is overpowered (see the suggestions I made). I don’t think you know what “good” mesmers run considering you don’t play mesmer?

These forums have become such a joke. Is it just a reflex now whenever a bad player dies they run straight to the forums to complain before figuring out how not to die.

Moa does not leave you “%100 defenseless”, infact its defenses are probably better than most classes in the game, #5 is a evade combined with a sprint that will get you halfway across the map, dodge rolling in moa form will also sprint you. You also have weakness on #4 and cripple on #2.

You should never die in moa unless you get chain immobilized by 2+ players, in which case you would have probably died anyway.

PS. No good mesmers run moa. So im assuming this complaining stems from hotjoin. In which case you need to just ‘Get Good’.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

I think moa morph would be more interesting and less cheese if its duration was reduced from 10 to 4 seconds and its recharge from 180 to 60 seconds.

4s Moa on 60s CD. I can guarantee you that a LOT more Mesmers would run with that one, rather than the handfull hotjoin baddies that use it these days.

Marsares.2053:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

I think moa morph would be more interesting and less cheese if its duration was reduced from 10 to 4 seconds and its recharge from 180 to 60 seconds.

4s Moa on 60s CD. I can guarantee you that a LOT more Mesmers would run with that one, rather than the handfull hotjoin baddies that use it these days.

4 seconds of moving 50% slower and unable to use ANY SKILLS AT ALL.
That is balance right there, 4 seconds in its current form is so bad none would ever use it.

moa aint so bad if you aint 100% glass cannon you got a leap cripple and a weakness screech with 4s cd of course 2 v 1 you should have the disadvantage regardless if you are transformed or not.

Use Flee to get to a position where you can abuse LOS and then dodge twice when you are followed. Usually works for me.

Moa Morph is a weird Elite though. I imagine it was designed to force a tanky individual off a point, but it’s rarely used for this. I see it used often to control the petting zoo antics of MM Necros, but apparently that’s a bug, so it’s probably just going to slip off into obscurity again.

Moa seems decently balanced. Its got a long CD, you aren’t completely helpless if you get hit by it, and it can be blocked/evaded/blinded/etc. That last fact alone is pretty big, as nothing is worse than blowing a 180s elite for no gain.

I think its strength lies in team fighting, where it is a bit underutilized. It requires a team that focuses well, which you rarely get in solo arena and don’t always get in team arena with partial queues. You can target a guardian to open a team fight and eliminate him quickly, which gives your team a fast window during his respawn to win the point. It’s also effective to easily neutralize a high threat like a thief, who is too glassy to survive without stealths and steps/evades.

It works very well in a lockdown mesmer build (which is a build that isn’t seen much). It was actually used quite a bit more back before MI with lyssa runes became a common thing.

dimyzuka.7051:

Jelzouki.4128:

No I’m not “basically” saying that. I AM saying that a skill that leaves you 100% defenceless for a number of seconds is overpowered (see the suggestions I made). I don’t think you know what “good” mesmers run considering you don’t play mesmer?

These forums have become such a joke. Is it just a reflex now whenever a bad player dies they run straight to the forums to complain before figuring out how not to die.

Moa does not leave you “%100 defenseless”, infact its defenses are probably better than most classes in the game, #5 is a evade combined with a sprint that will get you halfway across the map, dodge rolling in moa form will also sprint you. You also have weakness on #4 and cripple on #2.

You should never die in moa unless you get chain immobilized by 2+ players, in which case you would have probably died anyway.

PS. No good mesmers run moa. So im assuming this complaining stems from hotjoin. In which case you need to just ‘Get Good’.

Inb4 he asks you if you play mesmer, because the only way to know a good mesmer is if you’re a mesmer yourself!

Played mes exclusivley for almost 1 year, i only use moa on annoying thieves who spam d/p stealth, because they cant stealth as a moa and killing them when they are a helpless bird is priceless. Moa is a SITUATIONAL tool, it is not overpowerd, you can dodge it, block it, stability im 99% sure stops it, you have plenty of opportunities to stop yourself being moad, it even has a blatant cast animation, its not our fault if you’re too stupid to avoid it. and doesn’t need to be nerfed.
I nearly always run mass invis op, BUT when faced with a particularly annoying thief who abuses his ability to steatlh, or an annoying warrior, i slot in moa morph and do my upmost to destroy the turkey before it escapes.

You should save your tears to complain about real class balance issues such as the place of rangers and how they are compared to thief/warrior in pvp meta. This is a L2P issue. not a cry nerf cause it killed your op healing signet warrior issue.

Razor.6392:

Oh gosh please. I wish there was a way to filter out the least skilled players from posting on this specific forum section.

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

I have a mesmer, I sympathize for mesmers, I would like mesmers to be buffed in order to become viable again BUT an elite skill with 180 seconds that has a very high change of KILLING you while you cannot do basically anything to coutner that is very very not fun to play against.

Still, I don’t think it should be changed too much. Maybe revert the #5 nerf.

Even before the nerf I was in favour of replacing the skill with something that would actually be useful to Mesmer but people are still having trouble with it now that it is completely useless?

Frenk.5917:

Razor.6392:

Oh gosh please. I wish there was a way to filter out the least skilled players from posting on this specific forum section.

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

I have a mesmer, I sympathize for mesmers, I would like mesmers to be buffed in order to become viable again BUT an elite skill with 180 seconds that has a very high change of KILLING you while you cannot do basically anything to coutner that is very very not fun to play against.

Still, I don’t think it should be changed too much. Maybe revert the #5 nerf.

The skill doesn’t have a high change of killing you unless you were already at very low hp to begin with. Or if more than 1 person is hitting you.

Counters? You can dodge the cast or blind the mesmer.

Get that? A single dodge will put a 180 secs elite on cooldown.

VaaCrow.3076:

Played mes exclusivley for almost 1 year, i only use moa on annoying thieves who spam d/p stealth, because they cant stealth as a moa and killing them when they are a helpless bird is priceless. Moa is a SITUATIONAL tool, it is not overpowerd, you can dodge it, block it, stability im 99% sure stops it, you have plenty of opportunities to stop yourself being moad, it even has a blatant cast animation, its not our fault if you’re too stupid to avoid it. and doesn’t need to be nerfed.
I nearly always run mass invis op, BUT when faced with a particularly annoying thief who abuses his ability to steatlh, or an annoying warrior, i slot in moa morph and do my upmost to destroy the turkey before it escapes.

You should save your tears to complain about real class balance issues such as the place of rangers and how they are compared to thief/warrior in pvp meta. This is a L2P issue. not a cry nerf cause it killed your op healing signet warrior issue.

I don’t think stability stops it. I was moad when I used my lich form.

Moa is fine as it is. The only thing related to it that needs to get fixed is minions dying to transforms (which is a necro issue, not Mesmer). Yes, it is a bug, no, the issue is not with Moa.

Razor.6392:

Frenk.5917:

Razor.6392:

Oh gosh please. I wish there was a way to filter out the least skilled players from posting on this specific forum section.

You’re basically saying that a 180ish seconds cooldown ELITE skill shouldn’t kill you if you have 2 people currently attacking you? I don’t even play mesmer and I infact hate them, but that’s just nonsense. Not to mention that most good mesmers run cloak on pvp.

I have a mesmer, I sympathize for mesmers, I would like mesmers to be buffed in order to become viable again BUT an elite skill with 180 seconds that has a very high change of KILLING you while you cannot do basically anything to coutner that is very very not fun to play against.

Still, I don’t think it should be changed too much. Maybe revert the #5 nerf.

The skill doesn’t have a high change of killing you unless you were already at very low hp to begin with. Or if more than 1 person is hitting you.

Counters? You can dodge the cast or blind the mesmer.

Get that? A single dodge will put a 180 secs elite on cooldown.

No good mesmers would cast that without stealth or not right after the enemy dodges. But yes, you are right about the thing that’s it’s not properly an instakill, but it sure does help a lot.

Frenk.5917:

No good mesmers will have this ability on their skill bar.

ftfy

EverythingEnds.4261:

It’s an elite
It has a long casttime and 180s Cooldown
It can be interrupted, dodged or just fail by blinding the mesmer
It has 1 “escape skill”, the leap skill can also be usefull and you can use dodges

Minion Necros shouldnt complain, as a profession which is running around with its ELITE most of the time shouldnt complain about other elites

Thieves shouldnt complain, as they usually have the better cards against a mesmer and in addition, i think thieves guild isnt that much less strong than moa. Or if they use Basilisk venom, they have a stun, a complete condi remove and a total buff boost on a kitten CD thanks to lyssa runes.

A lot of Eles use glyph of elemental (or how is it called), making a 1 vs 1 fight into a 2 vs 1 fight.

Guardians: I only say: Aegis

In addition I’d like to mention, Mesmers elites suck in general, as they usally have very specific uses.
Mass invisibility and Time warp are usually only good if you are in a group fight, as in other scenarios (like 1 vs 1) they are just wasted.
Mass invisibility might be nice also in 1vs 1. However, a ~3s (?) CD on a 90s Cooldown is pretty bad in my opinion.
Moas best use is for killing a bunker or countering other players, however I’d instantly trade Moa for something like basilisk venom wich is basicly always usefull no matter what scale the combat is.

Minion necros already mastered moa form after all this time the cheap mesmers toss it at us,and i find it really amusing seeing the mesmers that got pecked to death and teabagged by theyr own kitten moa avoid to talk about it.
Doesnt mean it isnt a bug that is getting blatantly abused,and doesnt mean it wont get fixed eventually.

I use it from stealth against Minion master necros.

I’m confused as to why this is a thread lol. I’ve been playing mesmer since launch and no good mesmer will ever touch this elite. It’s easy to stop it from hitting and on top of that it’s just overall not very useful. Sure you can try to use it on bunkers, but you literally have to bait out everything (blocks, immunes, dodges, etc.) or try to cast it from stealth, which won’t go over well if the moa’s buddy shows up. Mass Invisibility and Time Warp are infinitely more useful in many more situations. Please don’t start threads about things you know very little about. It doesn’t make you seem very smart.

It is the noobs crying over something they do not understand. If they had experienced pre-nerf moa, they wouldn’t moan.

If they at least would take the time and check the skills on the wiki, they would understand that they are not out of control of their character. They have defensive and offensive tools.

Mesmers only ever slot Moa to troll, in hot join maybe. Because people are all like, “Wut, why does my hotbar has another colour now? Let’s continue to spam one, this might help!”

It is a L2P issue here, or at least a L2Read the bloody skills in moa form issue.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Morph

Wolf.5816:

I can’t tell you how much just letting you jump in Moa Form would help.

Yeah, I wish they would set it so that you could jump. It could also use some more fluidity in it’s skill animations as they tend to lock you in place a lot of the time, but that’s not too big a deal.

In any case, I kind of consider moa in the same vein as entangle. When it works, it can basically demolish anything, but when it doesn’t work then it’s just a waste of space on your bar.

If they did want to change anything, the only things I would consider appropriate nerfs would be to reduce the range (not that hitting someone at 1200 range is that useful anyways) or make the cast time a bit longer with an obvious animation.

Although they should fix the necro minion unsummon thing, but that’s not really the fault of the skill itself.

I love when mesmer moa me at the middle of the fight on my condi necro. This is only way to have some evade/escape skill from Anet :P

Kincaidia.3192:

Especially for classes that rely on abilities for damage avoidance. A warrior being moa’d? Meh. They can probably wait it out. A thief or ele getting moa’d?

Check please.

It should force (and allow) a “flee combat or die” scenario, but right now it’s way too harsh an ability, especially when it can easily be cast while the caster is stealthed.

You also forgot about necro. It kills all the minions and also forces them out of death shroud. Yeap anet really thought it through when they created this wonderfully stupid elite.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Mesmers only ever slot Moa to troll, in hot join maybe. Because people are all like, “Wut, why does my hotbar has another colour now? Let’s continue to spam one, this might help!”

It is a L2P issue here, or at least a L2Read the bloody skills in moa form issue.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Morph

Guuuuurl, did you just Moa me?! 1111111

Sadly, it does work.

As people pointed out it is only good for trolling MM Necros or when the person you use it against already is at a disadvantage anyway. In most other scenarios it won’t help at all.

I personally would not mind if it got nerfed with regards to MM Necros or if it it was removed completely. Because the skill does not matter in any meta of the game. It is annoying at best. But that’s it. I don’t get all the commotion this skill causes.

why u don’t learn to play against that? it’s easier nerf a class because annoying u? moa have a long cast time, and his special dinamic, you can evade, and wasted a elite skill from a enemy.