Guild Wars 2

The problem with a lot of the utilities you’re mentioning is they’re all more valuable in a duel or for roaming and not in larger scale combat. If the Ranger is the target of just 2 people most of the defensive options for the class fall flat. But to be the target of a train is a lost cause (we’ll see how the pet responsiveness turns out next patch to help with this some).

I also don’t agree with your assertion that we make strong kiters. Now I’ll admit that part of the problem is classes like Warriors and Thieves have such strong anti-kiting tools (and they don’t need to specialize for them to be used), but even against Guardians, Elementalists, and Engineers, our kiting isn’t much to write home about. In fact, the class we’re best at kiting is probably another Ranger.

Atherakhia.4086:

The problem with a lot of the utilities you’re mentioning is they’re all more valuable in a duel or for roaming and not in larger scale combat. If the Ranger is the target of just 2 people most of the defensive options for the class fall flat. But to be the target of a train is a lost cause (we’ll see how the pet responsiveness turns out next patch to help with this some).

I also don’t agree with your assertion that we make strong kiters. Now I’ll admit that part of the problem is classes like Warriors and Thieves have such strong anti-kiting tools (and they don’t need to specialize for them to be used), but even against Guardians, Elementalists, and Engineers, our kiting isn’t much to write home about. In fact, the class we’re best at kiting is probably another Ranger.

in terms of kiting a warrior its impossible to kite them and out run them specially if they’re running stances and that goes for thieves as well. but elementalists? necro and mesmers for me are no problem in pvp, unless they have a bunch of AI’s as their build then yes that is a problem. I told ANet we should have much more access to cripple, immobalize, and chill but maybe this patch we will be getting that through sigils. maybe.

Durzlla.6295:

AEFA.9035:

Durzlla.6295:

Atherakhia.4086:

And that’s the exact problem Durzlla. When you ask players to rank classes from most to least useful in WvW, the Ranger, Thief, and Mesmer tend to round out the bottom. The thing all these classes have in common is no real group weapon.

The question then becomes can we improve a weapon enough to actually offer enough to make the Ranger become noticed in WvW or if it’s a lost cause and a new weapon would end up being needed?

What are some things this game’s lacking or what are some things that are currently running unopposed that a Ranger could be given?

Personally, we need a new weapon if we want “The support weapon” to be in our kitten nal, that or just totally rework Greatsword and gear it more towards being support + defense than damage + defense.

Ways to do that:

1) Cut the damage on Maul Significantly, it now applies 5stacks of 10s Might to allies, blast finisher.
2) Make Swoop Apply Swiftness to nearby allies.
3) Counterstrike applies protection (very short, only like 1s, 2s top), if you block an attack you apply retaliation (3-4s?) to yourself, and maybe allies as well.
4) Make Hilt Bash apply vulnerability as well.

If the AoE effects are too strong by default, tie that into Greatsword Mastery in NM and make the “fury on hit” an AoE effect as well. Boom, weapon is now a very viable support weapon, and probably wouldn’t lack in damage due to the boons also going onto your pet if you have 15pts in NM.

Greatsword has always felt more “druidy” due to the animations imo, wouldn’t be too much of a stretch or an unwelcome change to make the weapon more interesting and provide more utility. Sure, people will be upset that they can’t 1shot people with maul anymore, but i’m pretty sure that’d be overlooked.

Though the suggestions are nice, I think that the GS by itself is one of the most balanced weapon that the Ranger has access to together with Shortbow. What I have not seen in forums are players looking at it a different way.

Rangers in ANets perspective is a solo killer, and our weapons states that as well. If things will change, ANet would put up support in our utilities. Live examples of these so far are:

1. Natures Voice
2. Spirit Rangers

Soon:

Invigorating Bond

As you can see, support are in either in our utilities, traits, or through our pets. It has never been in our weapon except for Warhorn. In GW2 people do not consider your contribution unless you’re giving boons or doing aoe damage in front of their face, this is the mind set of pve and wvw players that are all over the forums. Im not promoting Ranger as an ok class, we are not ok. Also, our weapons as most of you know, ties to our pet because this is the vision of ANet since the beginning to have the ultimate duo. (Sword pounce; GS hilt bash) What I want to see more of are killer weapon sets and more support in our utilities rather than to put support in our weapons, and I think thats exactly how ANet sees it too.

I personally think if we were to have a support weapon it should be a NEW weapon, i was just throwing my 2 cents into what they could do if they wanted GS to be a support weapon (easiest one to transition imo).

And we’re beyond “ok” we’re in good shape, once our pets AI is fixed we’ll be in AMAZING shape, and a lot of that is getting fixed next patch which is HUGE.

That being said I totally agree that most people don’t even realize the support people bring when boons aren’t being thrown all over the place, I know my build can maintain 100% regen easy (which in PvP ticks for like 310, only 82 hps less than Healing Sig) + condition removals and other healing through pets and then increased rez speeds and very rarely do people notice what it is my builds even doing (thank god or i’d be focused easily in PvP lol).

That being said we do need a little bit more for support, and i’m dying to learn what the numbers are for Invigorating Bond… Idk if i’m gonna take that trait, or if i’m going to be holding onto Zephyrs Speed for speedy stomps and rezzes… we’ll find out soon enough!

Sorry didnt see that you were just throwing ideas from a previous poster. lol. I have to disagree that were in OK shape right now in terms of power ranger (cause you know thats my fave stats to run), in terms of hybrid yes we are and condi. But power base I dont think we are ok, if you’re runnign it you really need to go for sigil IMO is the only choice for now. I will need to look into new skirmishing GM trait actually i have some ideas for it, I remember someone from Ranger forum saying skirmishing is base on your pet so i will build around that with the new gm trait. 0-30-0-10-30 build on april 15th and ill see how it goes. Pet ai improvement is a huge deal for my build, hopefully responsiveness is very well done. I hope.

@Xaylin;

Just specific to the traps, I figured we would be incorporating all of the reworks into the idea of mid range control, which is where the 900 range came from. The 900 range also stays consistent with the shortbows range and the shortbow for us has the most projectile finishers available, so I figured the combination of all of the things we talked about previously was traps was just being implied (doing more direct damage, stronger effects, pulsing Spike Trap, etc etc etc).

As far as the sniper role, my biggest question would be, if it isn’t desired, that what makes the sniper role I mention so much different from how a staff elementalist is currently played? Right now, as far as I can tell, a staff ele has a similar role in the zerg but is more “swiss army knife” in the sense that they can still support with boon sharing options and a larger range of available CC, which is also AoE.

So just an anecdotal example, I’ve been running with my guild this week on all my different 80s, and as an organized group, and versus organized group, the general “meta” strategy is for the “heavies” to push in while the casters (eles, necros) peel off to the group and drop AoE damage and support down where needed. This is where that sniper role would shine. The casters would peel off, and as a ranger, we can then peel off and pressure the casters. We can interrupt key skills like meteor shower and in general, geared the right way, take out the AoE damage and support of another organized group. The big advantage we have over other classes is that we can do it from 1500 range. A thief would be equally useful in this situation, but they would have to blow a lot of their cooldowns to make sure they have an escape option since they have to commit to going in and can get melted at any time, especially by an organized group.

The casters, particularly necros and eles, simply can not beat us at range. They would have to retreat and reposition, or die, and would not be safe often enough to provide the function their group needs.

So between this role, and the reworked mid range role I mentioned (doesn’t need to be bows, I just hate the shortbows design. It’s an autoattack based weapon and while the utilities are good utilities, the weapon overall is extremely mindless to use) where we would essentially be “Master of soft CC” (literally to the point where, as an example, if we put down a field that applies soft CC, unless the enemy dodges or cleanses, there is no unimpaired escape).

And yes, the melee options would have to be reworked to incorporate the ability to sustain the pet while we are in melee range. This could be as simple as another blast finisher for Healing Spring, Heal as One reviving the pet, and weapon skills giving the pet regen, along with revamped trait options (like a better version of Carnivorous Appetite) .

Overall it’s just my perspective on how I see where I think the ranger class should end up. That certainly does not mean I’m arguing for a push to take it there. More so, just like how the thread was originally created, it’s a sharing process where then the basis behind specific ideas can be extracted and used to express the types and areas of changes we all think need some work.

We’ve been making lots of tests with rangers, in my guild.
All builds we could come with, existing or creative, were tested.
The “sniper ranger”, that is, one running around the main bus to take down ranged ennemies and low-health runaways was found to be amongst the less viable.
Why?
Because of the fast pace of the fights, we do not have the tools to survive.
Saying pew-pew from distance for massive damage looks nice on paper, but the reason why thieves and DD ele can harass foe’s casters is because they have plenty of tools to pull it off. Thief has stealth, and if fight is half good, foe’s casters are not going to be in their side’s AoE, so thief is never really in danger. Dagger/dagger ele (most common harasser’s build for ele) have teleports that allow them to come hide in the bus if they are focussed (but most D/D ele in our guild are running with melee, unless GvG).

I’ll first state the premises on which we work. DPS over extended period of time is what we seek. There are no excuses to dying in the first 30 seconds of a fight, and a death in the first minute is frowned on. Better go get some toughness and vit until you know how to place yourself – a dead player deals no damage, brings no support, is a dead weight.
That said, only one of the rangers that applied as Sniper lasted over the minute. And I believe it’s because he wasn’t all-in sniper build (spent more than half the fights within 600 units of the melee ball, when not directly in it).
we have great range, but fights are so fast moving that we very fast are no more in max range.
Staying at 1200 unit behind our bus ensures we are staying out of melee range, but we have no tool to join our melee if they push through.

I know I’m not very clear, because I see how fights go in my head, but I can’t put it in words for lack of english knowledge.
Experiments indicated caster’s survivability is higher if they usually gravitate within 600 of melee. (not with melee), which should allow rangers to survive. But LB don’t have the self mobility tools that allow us to keep our melee between us and the ennemy, thus we switch to melee weapon (usually GS) to catch up (#3) and reposition to have melee between us and them.

what makes the sniper role I mention so much different from how a staff elementalist is currently played? Right now, as far as I can tell, a staff ele has a similar role in the zerg but is more “swiss army knife” in the sense that they can still support with boon sharing options and a larger range of available CC, which is also AoE.
(imho sniper hits out of the ball, staff elem chasing randoms is wasting what he should put as DPS on ennemy ball where our melee is focusing, thus reducing the chances to bring ennemy down in a quick burst)

jcbroe.4329:

Just specific to the traps, I figured we would be incorporating all of the reworks into the idea of mid range control, which is where the 900 range came from. The 900 range also stays consistent with the shortbows range and the shortbow for us has the most projectile finishers available, so I figured the combination of all of the things we talked about previously was traps was just being implied (doing more direct damage, stronger effects, pulsing Spike Trap, etc etc etc).

But don’t you think that ANet picked the weird range for a purpose?

As I said earlier, I personally don’t think that ANet wants Traps to be thrown as ranged weapons like Grenades rather than being placed between yourself and your enemy to lure them into them. This would explain the discrepancy between Traps and the ranged weapons we have. A 900 range would take away from that unique playstyle. Actually, it is not even needed if played this way. But I guess people prefer a Grenade-like style.

jcbroe.4329:

As far as the sniper role, my biggest question would be, if it isn’t desired, that what makes the sniper role I mention so much different from how a staff elementalist is currently played? Right now, as far as I can tell, a staff ele has a similar role in the zerg but is more “swiss army knife” in the sense that they can still support with boon sharing options and a larger range of available CC, which is also AoE.

[…]while the casters (eles, necros) peel off to the group and drop AoE damage and support down where needed.

You actually explained it yourself. An Elementalist in no way has a sniper role (or we both have a different vision about what a sniper is /shrug). They provide area damage and also bring some support (including CC) at range which isn’t necessarily a strength of Rangers.

I personally don’t do organized guild WvW but I got my share of WvW zerg experience (Elementalist and/or Engineer). What I usually experience is the backline (e.g. Elementalists) firing on the enemy frontline. However, this also means that your own backline, where your so called sniper would be, is probably farther than 1500 but most certainly farther than 1200 units away from you. If the backline keeps the maximum range to their frontline you’re sniper would literally have to stand in the frontline to reach them even with 1500 range – or he had to leave his own safe zone. The only time I see the backline being closer to the frontline is when being flanked. But then you’d don’t really need a ranged sniper for taking down the backline anyway. So where is the benefit?

Maybe I’m a bit too pessimistic but I just don’t see a sniper (regardless of which class it would be) being useful in large scale combat. Especially because it will just be less meaningful to take out one single person in a large fight. And even if they had an impact I wonder how practical such a role would be.

On a different note: Snipers would be countered by Grenade Engineers pretty easily.

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

Edit – Due to balance changes on the 15th, I will not go into any further detail on the build I posted. I also want to see the thread go into a more constructive direction.

@Prysin – The goal of the build was to have as much DPS as possible, split equally between me and my pet. I will admit to being quite wreckless in WvW and PvE. I like dealing alot of damage, so survival is not usually that high on my list when I consider build options. Thanks for suggesting the Toxic maintenance oil though. I didn’t notice that the difference in precision was only a few points.

warriorjrd.8695:

You must be one of those rangers I two shot. The only thing you’re going to kill with this is players who are new or simply can’t play, or somebody who is focused on something else. My lootbag count in wvw is a constant reminder as to why zerker is horrid in wvw.

This one I will reply to though……

You must be one of the Warriors I downed in like, 2 seconds using a stealthed Lynx followed up with a Maul.

Don’t let the name fool you already more than it has, I play a ranger. I would love to see you try and get close to me with that much armour, or any competent warrior. Like I said, the only thing you will kill with that are people who cant play.

In the time i spent in INVI + several months on deso, i saw you run ranger 5 times, out of 10 guild raids, and over two dozen zergballs. When it was Guild Raid time, you jumped on your warrior/guard/necro BEFORE bothering with the ranger. Even though i asked you a million times to roll ranger, after all you were supposed to “represent the profession” with the guild, you almost never did.
your understanding of builds also seem somewhat simplistic and you tend to favor niche functions over general purpose. However that is your preference, and i will not blame you for that, however the way you present the class to others are usually based on your own preferences. You only like the ranger as a CC-bot. Outside of that you barely ever approve of any build what so ever and you have tendency to bash the class at any opportunity, despite knowing it can perform. Such behavior is simply negative and detrimental to the general gameplay experience for others.

Jocksy.3415:

We’ve been making lots of tests with rangers, in my guild.
All builds we could come with, existing or creative, were tested.

And you found only one role? Sniper? Clearly, you did not look hard enough. Try go for a melee tank, or perhaps a healer setup. There is many ways to build a ranger, even with power gear, all you need to know is how to play the class and what traits to take.

You know what would be awesome?

Melee staff.

Yeah. That would be awesome.

@Jocksy;

I never said we were in the perfect spot for anything I mentioned. This conversation between Xaylin and I has been going on for a page or so now in which the original post, I made mention of what I thought my ideal purposes of a unique and meaningful ranger would be.

Just for information purposes. I think I’ve brought up changing the longbow throughout this thread at probably one of the highest rates of occurrence. My perspective of the weapon isn’t even necessarily that it’s bad, it’s just that it feels so bare bones basic and clunky to me that it’s lacking.

@Xaylin;

I neither agree nor disagree with the 900 range on traps. I simply agree with the idea that they need more robust functionality than they currently do. Simply put, I’ll take anything better than the current setup.

As for the “sniper” role, it’s actually quite easy to do. When I WvW on my ranger, engineer, and mesmer, it’s the thing I do the most is going for the caster kills. You split off away from where the melee train clashes, and the casters have to stay in 1200 range of that clash to hit the correct area, which means all you have to do is get within 1500 range of the caster. That also means that you can be as far as 1500 range or more from the main clash, and at that point, you’re either going to scare the caster(s) to retreat which can swing the fight in your teams favor, or you’re going to have to force an organized group to send some if it’s damage and lockdown characters to deal with you, which can literally force the win in your groups favor the moment they lose the bodies they need to keep up with your front line.

As far as engineers being a counter, if it’s grenades you’re talking about (I’m not sure in which context you mean), there is no way in hell an engineer should ever hit you with grenades anywhere outside of 900 range. They are super slow with a huge arc. You’d have to be playing without a keyboard, eyeballs, and/or a brain.

@Thread;

Also, moving away from the focus on that aspect of the class for a second, just in general, something I thing would be really interesting is the ability to trait to add additional functionality to the bounce of mainhand axe. Maybe a short cripple (1s) or even chill. Not on the first hit, mind you, but on the bounces.

Anybody think that just the concept behind the idea is okay?

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Chrispy.5641:

warriorjrd.8695:

In the time i spent in INVI + several months on deso, i saw you run ranger 5 times, out of 10 guild raids, and over two dozen zergballs. When it was Guild Raid time, you jumped on your warrior/guard/necro BEFORE bothering with the ranger. Even though i asked you a million times to roll ranger, after all you were supposed to “represent the profession” with the guild, you almost never did.
your understanding of builds also seem somewhat simplistic and you tend to favor niche functions over general purpose. However that is your preference, and i will not blame you for that, however the way you present the class to others are usually based on your own preferences. You only like the ranger as a CC-bot. Outside of that you barely ever approve of any build what so ever and you have tendency to bash the class at any opportunity, despite knowing it can perform. Such behavior is simply negative and detrimental to the general gameplay experience for others.

Your time in INVI was short lived, not enough time to give an accurate representation of what I run. I ran a warrior when we lacked melee, if we had enough I played either a focus party or CC role. I don’t have a guardian or a necromancer, so perhaps you should pay closer attention to what I run. Regardless of what I run currently, I still have over 2800 hours on my ranger, such experience doesn’t deteriorate.

Regardless of how many hours you had in wvw, you lacked knowledge of guild group functionality. Proposing a healing power ranger whilst simultaneously knowing that any other regen applied by somebody else would negate the effectiveness of yours, shows you come from, and have experience in, smaller groups. Perhaps my understanding of builds appeared to be “simplistic” because I was being realistic. Where you thought you could replace a shout heal warrior with a signet ranger, I knew otherwise. Where you thought a trap ranger would be effective in a guild setting, I knew from experience and testing it, that it was mediocre at best. And as stated previously, when you thought a regen ranger would be a benefit in a group setting, I knew that a guardian or ele with low healing power would overlap yours, rendering it useless.

You play a class to it’s strengths, and in a guild setting in wvw I was constantly trying to find out that strength (long before you came along). A focus party ranger isn’t that bad, but I found when working along side thieves, they could not only do higher bursts than I, but were all around more effective. A signet melee train ranger was also a solid bet, but standing next to warriors and guardians it looked foolish. You and I have said this multiple times, a ranger is the king of CC, especially aoe CC. So I came up with my CC build. Was it the only viable ranger build? No. Was it the only build/role a ranger could do the best? Yes.

Alright, so Prysin, Warriorjrd;

What I’m going to extract from this dispute is essentially that there are a lot of places where the ranger doesn’t clearly define itself ahead of other classes, but one of the places the ranger does shine is AoE CC.

Just make sure it doesn’t devolve into something not constructive please.

Not to single it out though, it goes for everybody, myself included. We are all passionate about our points of view and experiences, and at the end of the day, no matter whose opinion we agree with, everybody that is communicating in this thread is here trying to do the same thing; trying to make the ranger better.

We’re all here for the same thing and for the same purpose. Ultimately, the multiple perspectives end up being a good thing, because the more perspectives we have, the easier it is to see a clear picture of what actually needs work and changes. If this was an entirely one sided thread, it would look like the ranger CDI thread, with content 95% being “ranger bad, buff ranger, drawback is ranger might be too good” with no elaboration on constructive input to help formulate any reasoning that would lead to the root of why those suggestions were being made to clearly illustrate the root of the problem.

So, not saying that it has gotten uncivil, but just remember that we’re all on the same side here

pls make signet of beastmaster as a minor and not a grandmaster trait. this will benefit a lot of zerker rangers like me.

Prysin.8542:

Jocksy.3415:

We’ve been making lots of tests with rangers, in my guild.
All builds we could come with, existing or creative, were tested.

And you found only one role? Sniper? Clearly, you did not look hard enough. Try go for a melee tank, or perhaps a healer setup. There is many ways to build a ranger, even with power gear, all you need to know is how to play the class and what traits to take.

No, sniper is among the ones that doesn’t work. (guess I didn’t espress myself clearly)
Most play mid-cc/mid-support (HS/entangle/muddy terrain), either with LB+GS or GS+A/WH. (Ele and guards bring more heal (regen) than us without speccing much into it). (With almost perma protect and escape on GS, 20k vita and 28k toughness, holds pretty well in melee)
Only one apply achieved to play a somewhat sniper role (in plain/open fights, not on walls or tight spots), but that build is particularly hard to pull in guild (while in pugs it’s pretty easy), and is usually more a selfish build…

I try to place muddy terrain in the tail of ennemy bus (where there is less condi cleanse than in the head), creating a cell for our CaC to hit. (Not much use in pugs, because most pug commanders will take off existing cells instead of creating them. I usually then go trapper for fire field at impact point – because we lack ele’s in pugs at my times of play and it’s an half decent build for roaming when I get off the bus to take camps or solo towers)…

jcbroe.4329:

As for the “sniper” role, it’s actually quite easy to do. When I WvW on my ranger, engineer, and mesmer, it’s the thing I do the most is going for the caster kills. You split off away from where the melee train clashes, and the casters have to stay in 1200 range of that clash to hit the correct area, which means all you have to do is get within 1500 range of the caster. That also means that you can be as far as 1500 range or more from the main clash…

And how exactly is that going to work?

I’m not saying it is impossible. But being at 1500 range to the main clash plus at 1200 range of the enemy backline basically means running a huge circle around (or more risky: diagonal to) the main clash. As long as they are not paying any attention at all they will spot you. The backline can still always run into the opposite direction without losing their distance to their frontline. I only see this working if the terrain is in your favour. Otherwise you’re just exposed and vulnerable on the open field.

jcbroe.4329:

As far as engineers being a counter, if it’s grenades you’re talking about (I’m not sure in which context you mean), there is no way in hell an engineer should ever hit you with grenades anywhere outside of 900 range. They are super slow with a huge arc. You’d have to be playing without a keyboard, eyeballs, and/or a brain.

In big fights people don’t always spot the grenades untill they hit. Engineers probably won’t kill you at maximum range but they still can keep you from doing your job properly. Unless you are running defensive gear and don’t mind occasional hits which in return would mean that you’re not doing much harm yourselfy.

I’m still not sold on the efficiency of the sniper role. Sorry.

jcbroe.4329:

Also, moving away from the focus on that aspect of the class for a second, just in general, something I thing would be really interesting is the ability to trait to add additional functionality to the bounce of mainhand axe. Maybe a short cripple (1s) or even chill. Not on the first hit, mind you, but on the bounces.

Anybody think that just the concept behind the idea is okay?

CC on AA is still a big no no for me personally.

Is this aiming at Honed Axes or a new trait in general? Regarding Honed Axes, I don’t really get the trait since I prefer using MH Axe in a condition set up. But that just might be me.

What about a x% chance to ripp a boon on critical hit per bounce?

@jrd
you build specialized builds, i build mass utility. This is why my builds bring the best of many things, while yours ended up focusing on one.
Did you bring more AOE CC then me? not really, as i ran the very same stuff, the prob was you did not look into the ability for my builds to re-apply that regen. I could do it more often, equally reliable and with just as much ease and synergy as any other profession we argued about.
As for the thief, we both agreed that while “better” in the DPS + support role, it would still be squishy and not able to handle a direct assault, unlike the two builds i listed for you, which time and time again, did.

I also were “vary” of you long long before i signed up for INVI. Saying i knew all about you back then would be foolish, but i knew your play style and partially your personality. You are in essence, very much like myself, just more malleable and less headstrong.

@thread
yes we are the king of CC, yes we could build on that. However CC on AA is OP as hell, Sure, we have it on sword AA rotation (short cripple) but that rotation is designed to stick to one target (that is why it has less cleave in its rotation then say the GS does).
A cleaving (since you can trait LB AA to pierce, i consider it to cleave) AA, especially ranged, is OP. If you want more CC on weapons, add it to rapid fire. Make it apply cripple (2 sec/hit) and vulnerability (2 stacks), buff damage (make coefficient change from 0.38/shot to 0.45/shot) and increase cooldown by 75%. DONE!
Barrage? Make it apply chill (1sec) on each pulse and daze on the first pulse. BAM it is now a seriously good skill. Increase cooldown by 16% (from 30 to 35 seconds). TADA!! LB is now viable. Wait, one more thing, Hunters shot gives different pet bonus. You get stealth if you hit target, next 3 pet attacks apply 5 seconds of blind. TADA!!!! perfect defensive skill.
Point Blank shot – knock back enemies 200 units further, while jumping backwards 300 units while given “evade” for 0.75 seconds.
LB REMADE!!!!

GS:
Counter attack (#4,2) – now applies AOE launch similar to “stomp” utility found on warriors. Instant activation, minimal animation cycle to make it functionally defensive.
Swoop (#3)
Pet gains haste (100% movement speed) for the duration of the full animation + 1second. This allows the pet to also give chase in a more effective manner.

WH:
Hunters Call – redesign – Sonic shield
allies in a XXX AOE gets a shield that blocks all incoming attacks for 3 seconds and regeneration. Cooldown 75 seconds.
Call of the Wild – Reduce cooldown by 5 seconds, make it apply 5 stacks of might, not just 1.

Torch:
Make the #5 a ground targeted AOE with 900 base range (1200 traited)

Why in the world would you increase the cooldown on rapid fire with those slight changes lol? The damage increase is nothing. It would actually make the weapon about only slightly above what auto attack damage is (4.05 for it to be even). The cripple is nothing because cripple just doesn’t account for much in larger scale combat.

I also don’t buy into a cripple on a ranged auto attack being overpowered. While not ranged, you have to remember that a Warrior can get an immobilize on their auto attack for just 10 trait points. But even if it were, you could easily balance it by making it only on the short range shot or having an ICD of 5 seconds with a 2 second duration or something along those lines. Now that said, I’m not sure I really want to see a cripple on auto attack.

Your other longbow changes would be great though.

I have no idea if this was mentionned before, i havent read the whole 20 pages yet and will do after posting the idea i have.

Ranger able to kick/steal boon periodicaly:
There isnt that many classes around able to kick/steal boons, to this day i’m aware of 3 classes able to kick boons and 2 able to steal/trade boons if traited or utility skill, but yet nothing in a large scale when it comes to sharing the stolen boons.
Being able to steal and share boons is to me a ranger/pet job and would grant our class something to promote we would finally do better than any other class around and nonetheless something interesting to exploit.
This could be a trait, a CoS on hitting target, a weapon attack queue, a F2 pet ability, an utility/elite skills, this is up to you devellopers.

What’s the Ranger’s role in a group?

In my opinion, this should be the key focus of the review.

They need stuff to make them desirable for groups. There are lots of existing ways, but perhaps something new would go down well with the devs. There’s a world of ideas!

akallou.9704:

I have no idea if this was mentionned before, i havent read the whole 20 pages yet and will do after posting the idea i have.

Ranger able to kick/steal boon periodicaly:
There isnt that many classes around able to kick/steal boons, to this day i’m aware of 3 classes able to kick boons and 2 able to steal/trade boons if traited or utility skill, but yet nothing in a large scale when it comes to sharing the stolen boons.
Being able to steal and share boons is to me a ranger/pet job and would grant our class something to promote we would finally do better than any other class around and nonetheless something interesting to exploit.
This could be a trait, a CoS on hitting target, a weapon attack queue, a F2 pet ability, an utility/elite skills, this is up to you devellopers.

No, I totally agree with you. Battosai and I discussed placing this function on Remorseless, but there are millions of other ways to do it. Point is that it is definitely a needed feature to be competitive with other power builds as a “best in slot” role.

Prysin.8542:

@jrd
you build specialized builds, i build mass utility. This is why my builds bring the best of many things, while yours ended up focusing on one.
Did you bring more AOE CC then me? not really, as i ran the very same stuff, the prob was you did not look into the ability for my builds to re-apply that regen. I could do it more often, equally reliable and with just as much ease and synergy as any other profession we argued about.
As for the thief, we both agreed that while “better” in the DPS + support role, it would still be squishy and not able to handle a direct assault, unlike the two builds i listed for you, which time and time again, did.

I also were “vary” of you long long before i signed up for INVI. Saying i knew all about you back then would be foolish, but i knew your play style and partially your personality. You are in essence, very much like myself, just more malleable and less headstrong.

@thread
yes we are the king of CC, yes we could build on that. However CC on AA is OP as hell, Sure, we have it on sword AA rotation (short cripple) but that rotation is designed to stick to one target (that is why it has less cleave in its rotation then say the GS does).
A cleaving (since you can trait LB AA to pierce, i consider it to cleave) AA, especially ranged, is OP. If you want more CC on weapons, add it to rapid fire. Make it apply cripple (2 sec/hit) and vulnerability (2 stacks), buff damage (make coefficient change from 0.38/shot to 0.45/shot) and increase cooldown by 75%. DONE!
Barrage? Make it apply chill (1sec) on each pulse and daze on the first pulse. BAM it is now a seriously good skill. Increase cooldown by 16% (from 30 to 35 seconds). TADA!! LB is now viable. Wait, one more thing, Hunters shot gives different pet bonus. You get stealth if you hit target, next 3 pet attacks apply 5 seconds of blind. TADA!!!! perfect defensive skill.
Point Blank shot – knock back enemies 200 units further, while jumping backwards 300 units while given “evade” for 0.75 seconds.
LB REMADE!!!!

GS:
Counter attack (#4,2) – now applies AOE launch similar to “stomp” utility found on warriors. Instant activation, minimal animation cycle to make it functionally defensive.
Swoop (#3)
Pet gains haste (100% movement speed) for the duration of the full animation + 1second. This allows the pet to also give chase in a more effective manner.

WH:
Hunters Call – redesign – Sonic shield
allies in a XXX AOE gets a shield that blocks all incoming attacks for 3 seconds and regeneration. Cooldown 75 seconds.
Call of the Wild – Reduce cooldown by 5 seconds, make it apply 5 stacks of might, not just 1.

Torch:
Make the #5 a ground targeted AOE with 900 base range (1200 traited)

The build had +120% condi duration. It slowed down warriors with melandru and lemongrass, you wouldn’t have. Trying to be the jack of all trades master of none gets you nowhere. You need a defined role in a group, and focus everything on that so that it’s the best it can be. If you try and do too many things you wont be the best at any.

And again with the regen. The only person benefiting from that healing power was you. Any ele or guardian would have over written yours, meaning all that healing power you speced for was purely selfish.

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

@jrd
you build specialized builds, i build mass utility. This is why my builds bring the best of many things, while yours ended up focusing on one.
Did you bring more AOE CC then me? not really, as i ran the very same stuff, the prob was you did not look into the ability for my builds to re-apply that regen. I could do it more often, equally reliable and with just as much ease and synergy as any other profession we argued about.
As for the thief, we both agreed that while “better” in the DPS + support role, it would still be squishy and not able to handle a direct assault, unlike the two builds i listed for you, which time and time again, did.

I also were “vary” of you long long before i signed up for INVI. Saying i knew all about you back then would be foolish, but i knew your play style and partially your personality. You are in essence, very much like myself, just more malleable and less headstrong.

@thread
yes we are the king of CC, yes we could build on that. However CC on AA is OP as hell, Sure, we have it on sword AA rotation (short cripple) but that rotation is designed to stick to one target (that is why it has less cleave in its rotation then say the GS does).
A cleaving (since you can trait LB AA to pierce, i consider it to cleave) AA, especially ranged, is OP. If you want more CC on weapons, add it to rapid fire. Make it apply cripple (2 sec/hit) and vulnerability (2 stacks), buff damage (make coefficient change from 0.38/shot to 0.45/shot) and increase cooldown by 75%. DONE!
Barrage? Make it apply chill (1sec) on each pulse and daze on the first pulse. BAM it is now a seriously good skill. Increase cooldown by 16% (from 30 to 35 seconds). TADA!! LB is now viable. Wait, one more thing, Hunters shot gives different pet bonus. You get stealth if you hit target, next 3 pet attacks apply 5 seconds of blind. TADA!!!! perfect defensive skill.
Point Blank shot – knock back enemies 200 units further, while jumping backwards 300 units while given “evade” for 0.75 seconds.
LB REMADE!!!!

GS:
Counter attack (#4,2) – now applies AOE launch similar to “stomp” utility found on warriors. Instant activation, minimal animation cycle to make it functionally defensive.
Swoop (#3)
Pet gains haste (100% movement speed) for the duration of the full animation + 1second. This allows the pet to also give chase in a more effective manner.

WH:
Hunters Call – redesign – Sonic shield
allies in a XXX AOE gets a shield that blocks all incoming attacks for 3 seconds and regeneration. Cooldown 75 seconds.
Call of the Wild – Reduce cooldown by 5 seconds, make it apply 5 stacks of might, not just 1.

Torch:
Make the #5 a ground targeted AOE with 900 base range (1200 traited)

The build had +120% condi duration. It slowed down warriors with melandru and lemongrass, you wouldn’t have. Trying to be the jack of all trades master of none gets you nowhere. You need a defined role in a group, and focus everything on that so that it’s the best it can be. If you try and do too many things you wont be the best at any.

And again with the regen. The only person benefiting from that healing power was you. Any ele or guardian would have over written yours, meaning all that healing power you speced for was purely selfish.

Except that you’re 100% wrong, as long as your healing power is higher it will tick first, you running around spreading misinformation, AGAIN is just really getting annoying.

If you don’t know how it works, or you’re not sure, read the Wiki. There’s a link for it at the top of your screen, so it’s not even difficult.

Seeing as how you’re probably just too lazy to actually check the wiki, here’s an example on how Regen works,

“10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target from a level 80 player with 1500 Healing Power. 5 seconds later, 10 seconds of regeneration are applied to the same target from a level 80 player with 2000 Healing Power. The target will experience 317.5 health per second for the first 5 seconds, then 380 health per second for the next 10 seconds, then 317.5 health per second for the next 5 seconds.”

And on the off chance you AREN’T going to plug your ears and go “LALALALALA I can’t hear you!!”

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

Durzlla.6295:

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

@jrd
you build specialized builds, i build mass utility. This is why my builds bring the best of many things, while yours ended up focusing on one.
Did you bring more AOE CC then me? not really, as i ran the very same stuff, the prob was you did not look into the ability for my builds to re-apply that regen. I could do it more often, equally reliable and with just as much ease and synergy as any other profession we argued about.
As for the thief, we both agreed that while “better” in the DPS + support role, it would still be squishy and not able to handle a direct assault, unlike the two builds i listed for you, which time and time again, did.

I also were “vary” of you long long before i signed up for INVI. Saying i knew all about you back then would be foolish, but i knew your play style and partially your personality. You are in essence, very much like myself, just more malleable and less headstrong.

@thread
yes we are the king of CC, yes we could build on that. However CC on AA is OP as hell, Sure, we have it on sword AA rotation (short cripple) but that rotation is designed to stick to one target (that is why it has less cleave in its rotation then say the GS does).
A cleaving (since you can trait LB AA to pierce, i consider it to cleave) AA, especially ranged, is OP. If you want more CC on weapons, add it to rapid fire. Make it apply cripple (2 sec/hit) and vulnerability (2 stacks), buff damage (make coefficient change from 0.38/shot to 0.45/shot) and increase cooldown by 75%. DONE!
Barrage? Make it apply chill (1sec) on each pulse and daze on the first pulse. BAM it is now a seriously good skill. Increase cooldown by 16% (from 30 to 35 seconds). TADA!! LB is now viable. Wait, one more thing, Hunters shot gives different pet bonus. You get stealth if you hit target, next 3 pet attacks apply 5 seconds of blind. TADA!!!! perfect defensive skill.
Point Blank shot – knock back enemies 200 units further, while jumping backwards 300 units while given “evade” for 0.75 seconds.
LB REMADE!!!!

GS:
Counter attack (#4,2) – now applies AOE launch similar to “stomp” utility found on warriors. Instant activation, minimal animation cycle to make it functionally defensive.
Swoop (#3)
Pet gains haste (100% movement speed) for the duration of the full animation + 1second. This allows the pet to also give chase in a more effective manner.

WH:
Hunters Call – redesign – Sonic shield
allies in a XXX AOE gets a shield that blocks all incoming attacks for 3 seconds and regeneration. Cooldown 75 seconds.
Call of the Wild – Reduce cooldown by 5 seconds, make it apply 5 stacks of might, not just 1.

Torch:
Make the #5 a ground targeted AOE with 900 base range (1200 traited)

The build had +120% condi duration. It slowed down warriors with melandru and lemongrass, you wouldn’t have. Trying to be the jack of all trades master of none gets you nowhere. You need a defined role in a group, and focus everything on that so that it’s the best it can be. If you try and do too many things you wont be the best at any.

And again with the regen. The only person benefiting from that healing power was you. Any ele or guardian would have over written yours, meaning all that healing power you speced for was purely selfish.

Except that you’re 100% wrong, as long as your healing power is higher it will tick first, you running around spreading misinformation, AGAIN is just really getting annoying.

If you don’t know how it works, or you’re not sure, read the Wiki. There’s a link for it at the top of your screen, so it’s not even difficult.

Seeing as how you’re probably just too lazy to actually check the wiki, here’s an example on how Regen works,

“10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target from a level 80 player with 1500 Healing Power. 5 seconds later, 10 seconds of regeneration are applied to the same target from a level 80 player with 2000 Healing Power. The target will experience 317.5 health per second for the first 5 seconds, then 380 health per second for the next 10 seconds, then 317.5 health per second for the next 5 seconds.”

And on the off chance you AREN’T going to plug your ears and go “LALALALALA I can’t hear you!!”

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

LOL. I got no words from the wanna be Ranger bro.

Atherakhia.4086:

And that’s the exact problem Durzlla. When you ask players to rank classes from most to least useful in WvW, the Ranger, Thief, and Mesmer tend to round out the bottom. The thing all these classes have in common is no real group weapon.

The question then becomes can we improve a weapon enough to actually offer enough to make the Ranger become noticed in WvW or if it’s a lost cause and a new weapon would end up being needed?

What are some things this game’s lacking or what are some things that are currently running unopposed that a Ranger could be given?

It’s not because they have no group utility on it’s own (lulwut? @ mesmer, there is no more vital a class in wvw) it’s because we can’t combine group damage and survivability the way heavies and necros can. Ele’s get a free pass because the staff is amazing and D/D is a boon machine. Even engies get more respect simply because nade spam = aoe spam.

In order for us to be taken on boon dispensing alone, we would need a borderline OP skill set to make it work and it would need 0 interaction with the pet to function.

The biggest problem is that zerg damage = physical damage. As long as the ranger is “pet+player = all other classes” in dps, we will always be at the back of the bus when it comes to the damage that wins the wvw fights when the pet is very much mortal and almost entirely based on single target damage.

Game Mode: WvW & PvP

Suggestion for my fellow Rangers who like group setting this ones for you.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Frozen_Soil

_Changed name to: _

Spirit of Strife

Changed function to:

Summon a spirit of strife that prevents resurrection from nearby zone. (2000 radius)

Activation:

Dissention: Nearby downed units emits a poisonous cloud that damages and poison nearby units.

Get messed up!

Durzlla.6295:

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

@jrd
you build specialized builds, i build mass utility. This is why my builds bring the best of many things, while yours ended up focusing on one.
Did you bring more AOE CC then me? not really, as i ran the very same stuff, the prob was you did not look into the ability for my builds to re-apply that regen. I could do it more often, equally reliable and with just as much ease and synergy as any other profession we argued about.
As for the thief, we both agreed that while “better” in the DPS + support role, it would still be squishy and not able to handle a direct assault, unlike the two builds i listed for you, which time and time again, did.

I also were “vary” of you long long before i signed up for INVI. Saying i knew all about you back then would be foolish, but i knew your play style and partially your personality. You are in essence, very much like myself, just more malleable and less headstrong.

@thread
yes we are the king of CC, yes we could build on that. However CC on AA is OP as hell, Sure, we have it on sword AA rotation (short cripple) but that rotation is designed to stick to one target (that is why it has less cleave in its rotation then say the GS does).
A cleaving (since you can trait LB AA to pierce, i consider it to cleave) AA, especially ranged, is OP. If you want more CC on weapons, add it to rapid fire. Make it apply cripple (2 sec/hit) and vulnerability (2 stacks), buff damage (make coefficient change from 0.38/shot to 0.45/shot) and increase cooldown by 75%. DONE!
Barrage? Make it apply chill (1sec) on each pulse and daze on the first pulse. BAM it is now a seriously good skill. Increase cooldown by 16% (from 30 to 35 seconds). TADA!! LB is now viable. Wait, one more thing, Hunters shot gives different pet bonus. You get stealth if you hit target, next 3 pet attacks apply 5 seconds of blind. TADA!!!! perfect defensive skill.
Point Blank shot – knock back enemies 200 units further, while jumping backwards 300 units while given “evade” for 0.75 seconds.
LB REMADE!!!!

GS:
Counter attack (#4,2) – now applies AOE launch similar to “stomp” utility found on warriors. Instant activation, minimal animation cycle to make it functionally defensive.
Swoop (#3)
Pet gains haste (100% movement speed) for the duration of the full animation + 1second. This allows the pet to also give chase in a more effective manner.

WH:
Hunters Call – redesign – Sonic shield
allies in a XXX AOE gets a shield that blocks all incoming attacks for 3 seconds and regeneration. Cooldown 75 seconds.
Call of the Wild – Reduce cooldown by 5 seconds, make it apply 5 stacks of might, not just 1.

Torch:
Make the #5 a ground targeted AOE with 900 base range (1200 traited)

The build had +120% condi duration. It slowed down warriors with melandru and lemongrass, you wouldn’t have. Trying to be the jack of all trades master of none gets you nowhere. You need a defined role in a group, and focus everything on that so that it’s the best it can be. If you try and do too many things you wont be the best at any.

And again with the regen. The only person benefiting from that healing power was you. Any ele or guardian would have over written yours, meaning all that healing power you speced for was purely selfish.

Except that you’re 100% wrong, as long as your healing power is higher it will tick first, you running around spreading misinformation, AGAIN is just really getting annoying.

If you don’t know how it works, or you’re not sure, read the Wiki. There’s a link for it at the top of your screen, so it’s not even difficult.

Seeing as how you’re probably just too lazy to actually check the wiki, here’s an example on how Regen works,

“10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target from a level 80 player with 1500 Healing Power. 5 seconds later, 10 seconds of regeneration are applied to the same target from a level 80 player with 2000 Healing Power. The target will experience 317.5 health per second for the first 5 seconds, then 380 health per second for the next 10 seconds, then 317.5 health per second for the next 5 seconds.”

And on the off chance you AREN’T going to plug your ears and go “LALALALALA I can’t hear you!!”

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

I have literally tested it multiple times in wvw. You might get one tick off with your healing power, but when somebody else applies theirs, the duration is added but the most recent healing power is what it goes by. spvp and pve/wvw mechanics differ slightly, it may work like that in spvp, but in wvw I can assure you you’re wrong.

warriorjrd.8695:

I have literally tested it multiple times in wvw. You might get one tick off with your healing power, but when somebody else applies theirs, the duration is added but the most recent healing power is what it goes by. spvp and pve/wvw mechanics differ slightly, it may work like that in spvp, but in wvw I can assure you you’re wrong.

if wvw and pvp healing power calculation is different in terms of which they should prioritize, then i think you should go to the game bugs forum and report that, go tell ANet. Make sure to also provide some screenshots for them to see since youve tested it multiple times in wvw. That should be solved.

AEFA.9035:

warriorjrd.8695:

I have literally tested it multiple times in wvw. You might get one tick off with your healing power, but when somebody else applies theirs, the duration is added but the most recent healing power is what it goes by. spvp and pve/wvw mechanics differ slightly, it may work like that in spvp, but in wvw I can assure you you’re wrong.

if wvw and pvp healing power calculation is different in terms of which they should prioritize, then i think you should go to the game bugs forum and report that, go tell ANet. Make sure to also provide some screenshots for them to see since youve tested it multiple times in wvw. That should be solved.

Unless it’s intentional. Many spvp mechanics differ from pve/wvw on purpose. To be fair I didn’t test it yesterday, so it may have changed since I did test it. Don’t recall reading anything in any patch notes though =p

warriorjrd.8695:

Durzlla.6295:

Except that you’re 100% wrong, as long as your healing power is higher it will tick first, you running around spreading misinformation, AGAIN is just really getting annoying.

If you don’t know how it works, or you’re not sure, read the Wiki. There’s a link for it at the top of your screen, so it’s not even difficult.

Seeing as how you’re probably just too lazy to actually check the wiki, here’s an example on how Regen works,

“10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target from a level 80 player with 1500 Healing Power. 5 seconds later, 10 seconds of regeneration are applied to the same target from a level 80 player with 2000 Healing Power. The target will experience 317.5 health per second for the first 5 seconds, then 380 health per second for the next 10 seconds, then 317.5 health per second for the next 5 seconds.”

And on the off chance you AREN’T going to plug your ears and go “LALALALALA I can’t hear you!!”

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

I have literally tested it multiple times in wvw. You might get one tick off with your healing power, but when somebody else applies theirs, the duration is added but the most recent healing power is what it goes by. spvp and pve/wvw mechanics differ slightly, it may work like that in spvp, but in wvw I can assure you you’re wrong.

Most recently (like today), I tested this. I had the fern hound do its F2 first, and its heal ticked for 177 a second. I had both healing traits traited so the regen also lasted for 15 seconds.

I waited 6 seconds and used guard (with nature’s voice, this way I only see regen values)(yes, I checked, and made sure that the Rejuvenation trait was on cooldown so I was directly controlling the sources of regen). With my healing power, I should have seen about 350 hp a second from regen as soon as guard activated.

Instead of my higher regen value taking priority, I continued to see the regen from the pet take priority for another few seconds, then the regen from guard started ticking its value.

If the mechanic was by which healing is stronger, then obviously mine would activate. If it was by which was activated most recently, then again, my healing should have taken priority instead of the pet.

Sometimes, I would see a final tick or two of 177 healing at the end of the regen. Other times the first regen applied would finish before the second source started. Yet other times, I would see the higher healing value tick immediately. If I applied the higher regen value first, then it would always finish before the lower regen value started to tick.

Its harder to see how its affected in WvW, but it seems to be the same. my weaker regen from healing spring will finish ticking before I ever see the more powerful regen from another profession invested in Healing power. On the opposite, I don’t alkways see my higher regen value from my support build, I’ll see the weaker regen finish ticking first (looking directly at the healing ticks on my character).

I think its because the Server has to decide how priority for these things are decided after the skills are used, so there will be a delay in giving the higher value priority. Atleast that’s how I think about it.

I tested this last year with different values and sources of burning (drake, and throw torch were what I used), and it was the same. Whatever was applied first finished ticking before the higher value burning started, and sometimes it would work, other times it wouldn’t. And again, if I applied the higher value first, it would always tick and finish its duration before the lower value would.

That quote from the wiki is how its supposed to work, but, it doesn’t always work like that. Server load seems to play a major factor.

jcbroe.4329:

Also, moving away from the focus on that aspect of the class for a second, just in general, something I thing would be really interesting is the ability to trait to add additional functionality to the bounce of mainhand axe. Maybe a short cripple (1s) or even chill. Not on the first hit, mind you, but on the bounces.

Anybody think that just the concept behind the idea is okay?

I fail to see how this would strengthen the axe. I can think of no scenario in PvE where you want to take MH axe over any other weapon. The only scenario I can think of where the axe could be beneficial is a 1vX situation in WvW. But you probably wont try to fight 1vX anyway…

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
Axe 2: Old axe 2 and 4 combined; shortrange AoE pull
Axe 3: Should bounce very often (9 times?) between foes in a small area (each foe could be hit more than once). The first target hit gets chilled (like the old axe 3). All bounces stack 0.5 seconds chilled.
Axe 4: Old axe 1
Axe 5: You should be able to move slowly (like being crippled) and the AoE should be bigger

Ranger Axe #1 is a fabulous tapping weapon for multi-target zerg events . In my experience nothing else comes close (on a ranger) for how many drops you get.

Chrispy.5641:

Most recently (like today), I tested this. I had the fern hound do its F2 first, and its heal ticked for 177 a second. I had both healing traits traited so the regen also lasted for 15 seconds.

I waited 6 seconds and used guard (with nature’s voice, this way I only see regen values)(yes, I checked, and made sure that the Rejuvenation trait was on cooldown so I was directly controlling the sources of regen). With my healing power, I should have seen about 350 hp a second from regen as soon as guard activated.

Instead of my higher regen value taking priority, I continued to see the regen from the pet take priority for another few seconds, then the regen from guard started ticking its value.

Honestly, it never occurred to me that it would be anything but FIFO. There is no way the server would be expending cycles sorting biggest to smallest. When a new source of regen hits it’s just appended to the end of the stack. I’d even bet good money that it has a (hidden) max stack size of 5 just like Burning.

Nike.2631:

Ranger Axe #1 is a fabulous tapping weapon for multi-target zerg events . In my experience nothing else comes close (on a ranger) for how many drops you get.

I see what you want to tell but in my mind, LB+GS is infinitely more usefull.

I’d love an option to discard my pets, but gaining access to two bars (one for each pet) of three skills each, replacing the commands we now have.
http://imgur.com/MwA1GfA

You’d get to pick two bars from four possible ones. Single-target attacks, AoE attacks, defense and support. You’d be able to toggle between the two bars like you’d toggle your pets, granting you skills to compensate for the lack of pet damage and utility it might provide.

This could help the ranger out with roles it might not normally fullfil and give the profession new appeal in PvE, WvW and SPvP.

The Problem: I could imagine Empathy in Beastmastery being a slight problem, as you wouldn’t get anything there. A different approach would be one bar, replacing two pets and Empathy grants your skills a slight percentage boost, or potentially some of your stats.

Just an idea.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

No worries, spear is coming and you better believe that.

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

please read
“Main hand”
I find we have to have one MAIN HAND ranged weapon
axe #4 is OFF HAND

so “because we need a main hand ranged option”, you propose melee main hand axe and ranged off hand?
I might not be good in English, so maybe I’m not understanding how your axe proposal helps ensure we have a main hand ranged option, but it does not make sense to me…

HHR LostProphet.4801:

jcbroe.4329:

Also, moving away from the focus on that aspect of the class for a second, just in general, something I thing would be really interesting is the ability to trait to add additional functionality to the bounce of mainhand axe. Maybe a short cripple (1s) or even chill. Not on the first hit, mind you, but on the bounces.

Anybody think that just the concept behind the idea is okay?

I fail to see how this would strengthen the axe. I can think of no scenario in PvE where you want to take MH axe over any other weapon. The only scenario I can think of where the axe could be beneficial is a 1vX situation in WvW. But you probably wont try to fight 1vX anyway…

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
Axe 2: Old axe 2 and 4 combined; shortrange AoE pull
Axe 3: Should bounce very often (9 times?) between foes in a small area (each foe could be hit more than once). The first target hit gets chilled (like the old axe 3). All bounces stack 0.5 seconds chilled.
Axe 4: Old axe 1
Axe 5: You should be able to move slowly (like being crippled) and the AoE should be bigger

I PERSONALLY liked the idea of…

Axe 1: Chain 1: Savagely strike with the axe causing bleeding
-Chain 2: leap towards the target, if the target is bleeding cause more bleeding
-Chain 3: Wildly Strike your target, if they’re bleeding they lose a boon.
Axe 2: Split Blades no longer pierce, now each of the 5 axes bounce 3 times, the axes can bounce to the same target.
Axe 3: Throw your axe out chilling all enemies hit, the axe then returns pulling any enemy hit back to you, your pets next attack applies Chilled.
Axe 4: Throw your axe into the target applying vulnerability, if hit from the back it’s also a stun.
-Chain: Rip your axe out of the enemy causing more vulnerability and causing your pets next attack to daze the target.
Axe 5: Also gain protection when using the ability, OR allow us to move very slowly (chilled?), preferably the protection.

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

please read
“Main hand”
I find we have to have one MAIN HAND ranged weapon
axe #4 is OFF HAND

so “because we need a main hand ranged option”, you propose melee main hand axe and ranged off hand?
I might not be good in English, so maybe I’m not understanding how your axe proposal helps ensure we have a main hand ranged option, but it does not make sense to me…

Yeah, I know the axe MH is the only onehanded ranged weapon the ranger has but it’s of no use if it sucks. There is literally no point in PvE where you want to use axe as a multitarget, ranged weapon over melee weapons. The damage is abysmal poor. I can’t see the weapon fulfilling any other purpose than being the only onehanded ranged weapon. It simply sucks compared to the other options you have. Even the LB is better.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

please read
“Main hand”
I find we have to have one MAIN HAND ranged weapon
axe #4 is OFF HAND

so “because we need a main hand ranged option”, you propose melee main hand axe and ranged off hand?
I might not be good in English, so maybe I’m not understanding how your axe proposal helps ensure we have a main hand ranged option, but it does not make sense to me…

Yeah, I know the axe MH is the only onehanded ranged weapon the ranger has but it’s of no use if it sucks. There is literally no point in PvE where you want to use axe as a multitarget, ranged weapon over melee weapons. The damage is abysmal poor. I can’t see the weapon fulfilling any other purpose than being the only onehanded ranged weapon. It simply sucks compared to the other options you have. Even the LB is better.

Well, the LB isn’t a bad weapon, and the Axe is actually considered one of the best weapons in our kitten nal, just because the weapon doesn’t pump out the maximum damage possible IN PVE doesn’t mean the weapon is bad, hell it doesn’t even mean the weapon is anything less than good or great since if it’s not melee, it’ll be inferior in PvE, end of story.

This isn’t a flaw with the weapon(s) in the game, this is a flaw in Anets PvE encounters and the shallow mechanics they have that make standing in melee range rolling your face over the keyboard the most optimal method instead of making encounters that require you to actually utilize your abilities.

Then again, I’ve yet to see a single MMO make PvE utilize their abilities…

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

please read
“Main hand”
I find we have to have one MAIN HAND ranged weapon
axe #4 is OFF HAND

so “because we need a main hand ranged option”, you propose melee main hand axe and ranged off hand?
I might not be good in English, so maybe I’m not understanding how your axe proposal helps ensure we have a main hand ranged option, but it does not make sense to me…

Yeah, I know the axe MH is the only onehanded ranged weapon the ranger has but it’s of no use if it sucks. There is literally no point in PvE where you want to use axe as a multitarget, ranged weapon over melee weapons. The damage is abysmal poor. I can’t see the weapon fulfilling any other purpose than being the only onehanded ranged weapon. It simply sucks compared to the other options you have. Even the LB is better.

Well, the LB isn’t a bad weapon, and the Axe is actually considered one of the best weapons in our kitten nal, just because the weapon doesn’t pump out the maximum damage possible IN PVE doesn’t mean the weapon is bad, hell it doesn’t even mean the weapon is anything less than good or great since if it’s not melee, it’ll be inferior in PvE, end of story.

This isn’t a flaw with the weapon(s) in the game, this is a flaw in Anets PvE encounters and the shallow mechanics they have that make standing in melee range rolling your face over the keyboard the most optimal method instead of making encounters that require you to actually utilize your abilities.

Then again, I’ve yet to see a single MMO make PvE utilize their abilities…

Not even GW1 Durz? Haha.

In seriousness though, I think a really easy fix in general would be to be able to trait to add something more to the autoattack functionality. I mean, the bounce already makes it a desirable tagging weapon. Any sort of additional “on bounce” effect we add would be icing on the cake and flow nicely with the fact that we do have a weapon that has an innate bounce (and every other class with a weapon that has a bounce effect can trait for an additional effectiveness I believe).

Maybe traiting it makes it a less effective version of the mesmers staff skill? Like “randomly applies bleed/poison/vulnerability” or something?

Oh, Happy Patch Day everybody! Enjoy the build up now because the tears will start soon thereafter, so until then it’s better to imagine it to be as you see it, as opposed to what will actually be.

I do ask that we refrain from doing any build discussion or theorycrafting here, unless it’s to discuss how said build fits into the balance picture. I’m saying this knowing full well that I’m the candidate going for main offender for something like this, since the first thing I’d want to do is share a build with all of you guys who have pushed though your frustrations and made the effort to keep on chugging away and keep on having this discussion.

Needless to say, anything that immediately catches your eye, talk about it here. Let’s say invigorating bond heals for 10k base with no internal cooldown, you don’t need to playtest that to talk about something that extreme.

And I know that some people will end up disappointed. Just remember, if you’re ever feeling like you’re the underdog, at least you have an epic theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEVsRLhet2k

I know I don’t say it enough and probably come off much more serious on the forums than I am in game (Durz can attest to that), but remember everybody, this is a game. Take the time outside of serious discussions here on the forums to actually enjoy the game, because even for all it’s flaws, it’s still a ton of fun, especially on patch days

I’ve found mainhand axe the quickest weapon for clearing WvW camps with a power build.

And that is because it doesn’t require line of sight for its AOE (so its better than bows), and the range means you stay away from the guard’s blinds (so its better than swords).

You could arguably call camps a “better designed PvE encounter” though…

Sube Dai.8496:

I’ve found mainhand axe the quickest weapon for clearing WvW camps with a power build.

And that is because it doesn’t require line of sight for its AOE (so its better than bows), and the range means you stay away from the guard’s blinds (so its better than swords).

You could arguably call camps a “better designed PvE encounter” though…

i agree. I like axe auto attack, it has its place. great for farming loot, and proc’ing on crit/hit things such as ommnom pies, companions might, fire sigil etc

My fastest camp clears have been A/A – A/WH using drakes and companions might and RoA

it’s the 3 attack i would change and make AoE

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

please read
“Main hand”
I find we have to have one MAIN HAND ranged weapon
axe #4 is OFF HAND

so “because we need a main hand ranged option”, you propose melee main hand axe and ranged off hand?
I might not be good in English, so maybe I’m not understanding how your axe proposal helps ensure we have a main hand ranged option, but it does not make sense to me…

Yeah, I know the axe MH is the only onehanded ranged weapon the ranger has but it’s of no use if it sucks. There is literally no point in PvE where you want to use axe as a multitarget, ranged weapon over melee weapons. The damage is abysmal poor. I can’t see the weapon fulfilling any other purpose than being the only onehanded ranged weapon. It simply sucks compared to the other options you have. Even the LB is better.

Well, the LB isn’t a bad weapon, and the Axe is actually considered one of the best weapons in our kitten nal, just because the weapon doesn’t pump out the maximum damage possible IN PVE doesn’t mean the weapon is bad, hell it doesn’t even mean the weapon is anything less than good or great since if it’s not melee, it’ll be inferior in PvE, end of story.

This isn’t a flaw with the weapon(s) in the game, this is a flaw in Anets PvE encounters and the shallow mechanics they have that make standing in melee range rolling your face over the keyboard the most optimal method instead of making encounters that require you to actually utilize your abilities.

Then again, I’ve yet to see a single MMO make PvE utilize their abilities…

The weapon is only good for kiting people and the use of an offhand weapon.
That comes with 2 flaws
1) You’ll never ever need to kite something in PvE. So this weapon is plain useless in the biggest part of the game.
2) You’ll probably not able to kite the current meta builds/classes. I for myself am far better of in just running Sic’ Em + LB vs. thiefs as example as any MH axe combo. I also honestly never lost to a MH axe ranger. Not by a long shot. Furthermore, why shouldn’t a melee weapon be able to kite someone. A melee weapon could even be better than any ranged kiting weapon (Greater Risk = greater Reward).
All in all, I see no justification for the MH axe as it is now. It’s useless for the most time.
It doesn’t has to be a melee weapon, but the current design is weak for the most part.

It is incredibly weak, that’s for sure. Rather see it do reduced damage per bounce but at least do respectable damage on the first hit than current implementation. That or just attach a condi to #1 and call it a day.

Definably agree with longbow and its abilities are rather unexciting and shortbow too , maybe hoping ranger could be come more of a “micro” class with pets and traps while staying back but lesser survivability , so we can define good ranger , that have decent positioning and the ones that have great positioning and situation awareness

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Durzlla.6295:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jocksy.3415:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

snip

I will just give a short idea of what I think would be cool:
Axe 1: Melee AA, like warrior has.
snip

I find melee in current situation is a bad idea.
We only have 2 main hand weapon; one is ranged, the other melee.
Unless they’d bring in another one-hand weapon that would be ranged, I will never agree to make axe main hand a melee weapon.
I’d more see an ability for it to bounce on allies also, or weight the damage more on the first attack, or other solutions mentionned.

(+, imho, our weapons should be good by themselves, not a copy of other profession’s attacks)

That’s why I’ve suggested to move the current AA to axe 4. I can’t see any reason to use the current axe despite the reason Nike has shared.

please read
“Main hand”
I find we have to have one MAIN HAND ranged weapon
axe #4 is OFF HAND

so “because we need a main hand ranged option”, you propose melee main hand axe and ranged off hand?
I might not be good in English, so maybe I’m not understanding how your axe proposal helps ensure we have a main hand ranged option, but it does not make sense to me…

Yeah, I know the axe MH is the only onehanded ranged weapon the ranger has but it’s of no use if it sucks. There is literally no point in PvE where you want to use axe as a multitarget, ranged weapon over melee weapons. The damage is abysmal poor. I can’t see the weapon fulfilling any other purpose than being the only onehanded ranged weapon. It simply sucks compared to the other options you have. Even the LB is better.

Well, the LB isn’t a bad weapon, and the Axe is actually considered one of the best weapons in our kitten nal, just because the weapon doesn’t pump out the maximum damage possible IN PVE doesn’t mean the weapon is bad, hell it doesn’t even mean the weapon is anything less than good or great since if it’s not melee, it’ll be inferior in PvE, end of story.

This isn’t a flaw with the weapon(s) in the game, this is a flaw in Anets PvE encounters and the shallow mechanics they have that make standing in melee range rolling your face over the keyboard the most optimal method instead of making encounters that require you to actually utilize your abilities.

Then again, I’ve yet to see a single MMO make PvE utilize their abilities…

The weapon is only good for kiting people and the use of an offhand weapon.
That comes with 2 flaws
1) You’ll never ever need to kite something in PvE. So this weapon is plain useless in the biggest part of the game.
2) You’ll probably not able to kite the current meta builds/classes. I for myself am far better of in just running Sic’ Em + LB vs. thiefs as example as any MH axe combo. I also honestly never lost to a MH axe ranger. Not by a long shot. Furthermore, why shouldn’t a melee weapon be able to kite someone. A melee weapon could even be better than any ranged kiting weapon (Greater Risk = greater Reward).
All in all, I see no justification for the MH axe as it is now. It’s useless for the most time.
It doesn’t has to be a melee weapon, but the current design is weak for the most part.

You’ve gotta be joking…. The 3 skill on axe alone maintains perma weakness on a target, which hurts direct damage quite significantly, not to mention it also applies 3s of chill making it very easy to get in and out of Melee range to land split blades, AND it increases their CDs by 66%, this also affects mobs in PvE but I’d doubt you’d know that cause damage is all that matters.

Also, that word Kiting, I don’t think you know what it means, by definition Melee weapons wouldn’t be good at, nor would they WANT to kite, they’d wanna have a snare or a leap or both so they can keep up with the guy kiting them sure, but they wouldn’t want to actually kite.

Yet another reminder that the so-called “amazing changes” for Ranger announced in February are still M.I.A.

Flytrap.8075:

Yet another reminder that the so-called “amazing changes” for Ranger announced in February are still M.I.A.

This thread has reached 1000 posts, and we have been going in the same circle for months now. Can’t we atleast wait for what the patch notes say?