Guild Wars 2

Was just going to respond in the other thread, but may as well respond to this one instead since it’s more centralized discussion on Ranger issues.

Eurantien makes some great points, but I’d argue the problem is both weapons and not one or the other. Neither weapon can really stand on their own and both fill more of a back-up/utility role than being the main one you want to use.

For most other classes they have a dominant weapon and a back-up weapon to support it. Ranger really doesn’t have a dominant power weapon (for PvP/WvW) and that’s primarily because GW2 has nothing for a power build to provide in this game but AE and burst, 2 things the Ranger simply doesn’t have (by design no less).

I’d say that overall, the combination of LB/GS is more of a hyper offensive setup than anything due to the functionality of all the different weapon skills.

Neither weapon has much defensive utility, but the underlying problem with LB is that it relies on the Greatsword swap for it to be a viable damage build in total. This, to me, indicates that the combination of both weapons has the tools necessary to do damage, but because it isn’t centralized on one weapon or the other, it doesn’t provide the overall defensive utility that’s basically mandatory on all builds that lack defensive stat investments (usually in the form of evades, teleports, stealth, and immunities).

Combine that with a severe lack of function in a lot of our utilities (shouts don’t know what they’re doing, and survival skills are very, very, very basic. Signets are interesting but require heavy investment, and spirits are spirits, meaning they are more group utility than survival utility) and you are left with a build that, comparative to other power options in the game, struggles to stay afloat.

If I keep going though, I’ll go full circle right back to how much I hate Rapid Fire, so I think I’ve said enough with this piece haha.

jcbroe.4329:

I wanted to transport a post made by a fellow ranger I hold in high regards to this thread, because I am aware of how much experience this person has with a particular spec, and so their insight on it is very valued and should be visible in a place that isn’t a forum thread with lesser constructive potential:

Eurantien.4632:

I feel like longbow is viable. I feel like greatsword is not which by extension makes longbow not viable since you don’t have a reliable defensive weapon to swap to. The reason I say greatsword and not any other weapon set is because for a power ranger the DPS loss swapping to any other weapon set is just too great. When swapping to greatsword the issues are hilt bash range, and the block which is unable to save you from multiple targets (if one hits melee) because it forces you into a long animation (counter attack which can be sidestepped lol) which is essentially a self stun. I’ve used long bow a ton, played lb/gs 6/6/2 zerker ranger to the top 50 of both EU and NA leaderboards. I really don’t think lb is the problem (i’m generally in lb 75% of the time), but the greatsword which I only swap to If I know I can land the 3->5->2 burst combo or if I need to escape/reposition using swoop->block. Mainly, that is because the GS block (which ideally should keep you in a fight) I only use 1 v 1 or to try to block projectiles after I swoop away because its worthless for anything else.

Ive never played in tournament of legends in gw2, but I am a long time ranger in both franchise and Ill agree on LB being able to stand on it own as the “opener” weapon of choice for Ranger. Hell you can kill someone just by being on LB with good positioning of course but a lot of ppl will disagree on me on that cause of 6 MM is bad investment to some. I agree on this guy as well for GS if the “opener” is LB you need a decent “closer” to make sure you can kill your target if you fail to kill them on LB. GS’s only burst damage is maul and kick with decent power co efficient, downside is maul and kick are easy to dodge/unreliable. which forces you to switch to LB whenever you can if you didnt land those 2 skill cause staying on GS you lose dmg against others period. Cause GS is, IMO, a beastmaster weapons first choice. IMO its set up for your pet, and you as a player use it to support your pet together with its defensive mechanics.

Hyper offensive? No utility? I’m like on the completely other end of the spectrum :/

LB #2: Utility skill so you do competetive damage at min range.

LB #3: Utility skill so you can defend yourself/escape.

LB #4: Utility skill to get people off you.

LB #5: Utility skill to snare 5 targets (and kill yourself).

GS #2: Burst, but without a fast hands trait it can’t live up to its potential.

GS #3: Utility to escape/engage.

GS #4: Utility to defend with very limited offensive ability against an aware opponent.

GS #5: Utility to interrupt a cast but is primarily used to line up a maul.

I realize I’m oversimplifying this a bit and some sigil combinations have really openned up the potential with some of these options, but overall I’m not seeing the same offensive value you are. Especially when I consider half the attacks do less damage than #1.

jcbroe.4329:

I wanted to transport a post made by a fellow ranger I hold in high regards to this thread, because I am aware of how much experience this person has with a particular spec, and so their insight on it is very valued and should be visible in a place that isn’t a forum thread with lesser constructive potential:

Eurantien.4632:

I feel like longbow is viable. I feel like greatsword is not which by extension makes longbow not viable since you don’t have a reliable defensive weapon to swap to. The reason I say greatsword and not any other weapon set is because for a power ranger the DPS loss swapping to any other weapon set is just too great. When swapping to greatsword the issues are hilt bash range, and the block which is unable to save you from multiple targets (if one hits melee) because it forces you into a long animation (counter attack which can be sidestepped lol) which is essentially a self stun. I’ve used long bow a ton, played lb/gs 6/6/2 zerker ranger to the top 50 of both EU and NA leaderboards. I really don’t think lb is the problem (i’m generally in lb 75% of the time), but the greatsword which I only swap to If I know I can land the 3->5->2 burst combo or if I need to escape/reposition using swoop->block. Mainly, that is because the GS block (which ideally should keep you in a fight) I only use 1 v 1 or to try to block projectiles after I swoop away because its worthless for anything else.

what?!
i can complain simular.

i played into eu ladder top 25 with spirit ranger and stay there since the last ladder reset, i also played spirit ranger in the legends tounry in a team and we got the 3. place
(why spirit ranger? yes because there is nothing else work for ranger if you want play seriously)

so i can tell you from my point, each kind of power ranger is not viable and completely useless in teamque…

the longsword is not the reason why longbow is bad.
both weapon are not viable/bad,
also all other weapons are not viable for power builds on ranger,
just because the hole ranger design dont work for power (because the design of the weaponskills).
its designed to put conditions on your enemys and let your pet also deal dmg,
thats by dodge and kite enemy attacks well as possible.

i tried so often to create some kind of power rangers.
after this patch i tried it again.
but it leads always to the point where i have to realize its not viable.

the power builds of ranger dont even work in hot join good enough,
where i can finish most enemys in easy mode as condition ranger…
or even when i play some professions i dont main, the power ranger always looks bad if i compare this.

the hole longbow skills are not smoth and need a huge rework,
same with longsword skills.
and there it’s not enough to just improve damage.
it needs something to combinate 2 skills to one and create a new survive based one.

after that they can start think about power ranger traits and slot skills

and maybe after that a power ranger could work.
but actually power ranger is completely not viable.
i dont even know where i should start to complain why, because its just everything… traits, weapons skills, slot skills and even how enemy professions work.

at least i found one viable power ranger 1vs1 build.
and this was with the greatsword and cleric amulet.
but it was more a bunker with rune of the pirate.
i survived and my parrot killed enemys, so it don’t counts.
and with shaman and condi weapons it works also better.
or just create a beastmaster ranger, its the same.

i dont want blame Eurantien.
its nice if he like to play he’s ranger this way and
maybe if anet finaly decide to buff power ranger builds he become a really dangerous player by using this build, because he practice it much already.
but at the moment there is no serious spots for power rangers in teams…

and can a dev finaly visit this topic?

Imjust curious what kind of build he runs with that lb/gs combo in tourny

Atherakhia.4086:

Hyper offensive? No utility? I’m like on the completely other end of the spectrum :/

LB #2: Utility skill so you do competetive damage at min range.

LB #3: Utility skill so you can defend yourself/escape.

LB #4: Utility skill to get people off you.

LB #5: Utility skill to snare 5 targets (and kill yourself).

GS #2: Burst, but without a fast hands trait it can’t live up to its potential.

GS #3: Utility to escape/engage.

GS #4: Utility to defend with very limited offensive ability against an aware opponent.

GS #5: Utility to interrupt a cast but is primarily used to line up a maul.

I realize I’m oversimplifying this a bit and some sigil combinations have really openned up the potential with some of these options, but overall I’m not seeing the same offensive value you are. Especially when I consider half the attacks do less damage than #1.

I meant hyper offensive in terms of how the skills function. As in, every “utility” function requires you to be full offensive and hitting a target. The only true defensive utilities in the weapon combination are LB 3, LB 4, and the blocking portion of GS 4, coupled with the unreliable autoattack chain evade.

I may have been unclear that I meant defensive utility though, so I apologize. But with those 4 listed, the only skill that doesn’t require you to complete some offensive action to benefit from the defensive value is GS 4. LB 3 has to hit to have any value, and in totality is a weak skill because it’s all or nothing for purely utility function that you need in order to make the weapon work to it’s full potential. Same thing with LB4, but at least it hits for a decent amount.

GS 4 is only good against projectiles, and is elaborated on by Eura in his post, and the evade, again, can’t be relied on for on demand reactions because it’s the autoattack chain.

I’m pretty sure I can speak for a lot of ranger players when I say that most people would probably rather see, function wise, for Maul and Rapid Fire to swap weapon sets. In the very general sense that longbow would have a single, or very few amount of arrows fired in one skill as the damage skill, where Greatsword would get a multi-hit damage skill that stacks vulnerability.

That’s a very basic analysis of course, and I could definitely come up with ideas all day about how to design the longbow and greatsword where they would still work well paired together, but still be functional, and at different things, on their own.

For instance, if longbow was altered by just a few skills and damage numbers, it would be able to be paired with the 1-handed sword and gain all the defensive utility it needs without sacrificing the burst it currently needs from the greatsword because the weapon simply isn’t a good option for instantaneous damage, making it a very difficult weapon to make work on its own in PvP as a power weapon because it’s all sustain and utility and no burst.

All classes that can build full offense have inbuilt free sustain and/or damage avoidance. Warrior has high HP and armor with a free HS sustain and adrenal health from traits. Very good condition removal and condition/damage immunity.

Thief fully dictates the tempo of the fight, although stealth has a no capping downside in PvP.

Mesmer is full of teleports, blocks and evades. Mediguard has a lot of blocks and traited healing. Elementalist also has solid defensive cooldowns and the damage is so HUGE it actually seems like a good payoff to lose defensive stats.

Ranger…. has … nothing of this sort. We can bunker up well, but our ammulet, rune, trait AND weapon choices need to all be bunker. Our damage comes from a combined effort of condition spamm and pet. This is why bunker builds work for ranger. Spirits are just a variation on this.

Power builds require 3 things. Burst, innate sustain and survivability. SoTF has added survivability but we still lack burst and innate sustain.
The simple way to fix burst would be to compress/speed up rapid fire. Just reduce its cast time from 4.5 to 2.5 seconds while keeping the number of hits and damage the same. Barrage is a whole other thing. Should it mirror meteor shower? should it be a one time shot? Hell, it can even be an anti boon ability!!

And what is left is innate sustain….

Regarding longbow, I’ll just repeat what I said somewhere else already. For the records, I have a decent PvP experience and a lot of PvE/WvW experience.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I will try something completely crazy: The longbow is not that bad!
To the contrary, it deals good damage.

However your objection is right, the longbow is a bad weapon.
How can that be? Well, there are multiple reasons for this but all have the same impact, the weapon is inconsistent.
If the longbow could always hit for its maximum damage, it would be on par with any other weapon, but it does not for the most part.

1) Our damage gets lowered to justify our pet. At the same time, the pet isn’t able to hit the target as frequently as we are able to. We lose damage.
2) We have to stay at maximum range to deal maximum damage. In any PvP situation, the target will be in front of us in no time. In any structured PvE situation, we wont get the buffs from our teammates. We lose damage.
3) Untraited, our arrows can be easily kited at maximum range. We lose damage.
4) There are far too many traits in one traitline to take all traits who benefit the longbow. Furthermore, there are some forced traits (like Spotter in PvE, RtW in WvW). We lose damage.
5) The weapon skills do not synergise. The #2 is hardly a damage gain, the #3 gets useless as long as #5 is active, #4 bugs and get countered way too easily, #5 can be easliy avoided by the enemy and deals poor damage vs other players. We don’t gain damage.
6) We lack of traits which boost our damage. Since the playstyle of the longbow can be described as “kill or be killed”, we are often left behind if it comes to raw damage. We don’t gain damage.

So that are all the reasons I can think of why the longbow suffers. Not because it can’t deal good damage, but because it never gets to the point where it can deal its full damage.

And our pet is lackluster. Period.

On the bright side. Any Rangers here looking for some alteration to builds check out my build and sigil set ups.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAR8YjEq0yaFLGsw1aALhq9BEAFw7TNVzZXRbGX9xrK-TJRIwAAeCAGLDUa/BCXEAA

@ Yilvina

Power ranger isn’t easy to use. 6/6/2 of any profession isn’t easy to use because you remain glass and in any team queue no FULL zerker build is “viable” unless you have support from your team. However, in solo queue with the right comp it can be, and I believe with the right support from your team it can also be quite good in team queue (probably only on foefire). I’m not saying power ranger is perfect where its at. But I think the changes they’ve made like Read the Wind and pet responsiveness has helped the power ranger a lot. Right now, I think the biggest thing holding it back is greatsword. Now, if you’re looking for a non zerker DPS spec, I’d agree that is hard to do and is not viable because we still cannot manage to get adequate DPS and survivability for such a build. The main reason for that is because to do enough damage to kill a target we have to invest 6/6 into MM and skirm, which leaves us with no condi removal. Sure, some people say 6/0/2/6 works for them but I just think the lack of DPS from moment of clarity 300 precision and 30% crit damage (ferocity?) is too much and yet you still remain with subpar condi clear. So in the end, I still blame greatsword’s lack of damage/defense for the current core of the power rangers problems.

Before I thought power ranger lacked something: Boon removal, condi removal, dps, mobility, sustain.

Now I think power ranger lacks something: Boon removal, condi removal, mobility, sustain.

The main reason for the difference is read the wind. That being said having to lose either piercing arrows or eagle eye for read the wind is a heart breaking decision. 1500 range is a REALLY nice buffer from 1200 range to give you that extra time to react. However, if power ranger is ever to be truly team queue viable piercing arrows is a must to be able to cleave downed bodies. Ideally, the traits would be merged, but that might make lb a little bit too strong, especially with buffs in other places as well.

What if… we swapped maul for whirling axes?
Then adapt whirling gs thingy to do 4 new things.
Reflect projectiles
Reflect conditions
Inflicts 2x vuln pr strike
Reduce whirl length from 10 hits to 4, the 5th hit does massive damage to targets within the whirl area. Damage should be comparable to that of maul + 15% if final strike hits.

With the cc lockdown from MT, entangle, canine pets or gs stun, we can actually make such a pbaoe defensive offensive strike work. Even if it were still to root us.

Axe offhand maul would be changed to do more damage the less hp you got. A sort of “yolo last word” strike. Think of it as a slightly weaker version of warriors final strike.

Gs4 “when hit” should be a 8 second camouflage similar to how HIPS work, but allowing movement.

I think I’m finally on the verge of breaking down and going with Jon Peters on taking the evade off of autoattack. Yes, zerg surfers will forever cry, and there are of course a million different ideas and none of them are truly wrong, but GS4 should gain Autoattack3s evade and animation, while still attempting a knockback on the person who triggered the skill, and Swoop should also be an evade during the leap animation at the very least (maybe not the entire run duration, because it’s a harder to control variable). The new autoattack 3 should restore endurance, similarly to how the thief dagger works.

Couple that with a longer range hilt bash, and we have a very, very nasty weapon on our hands that can still do decent damage, and has the defensive utility that it currently feels as though it’s lacking.

Longbow, oh longbow. I will forever hate rapid fire, and an extension of that is hating barrage, because both skills make the weapon very clunky to use and seemingly slow down the pace of combat and the weapon.

Durz and I were talking about how we agreed that shortbow gets one thing right (all the damage focused in the autoattack is not it) in the sense that it has “an arrow for every occassion.” It’s very Green Arrow or Hawkeye style (don’t start a DC vs Marvel debate here please, that’s what the rest of the internet is for haha), and should conceptually be applied to the longbow as well.

So I personally still think that the best way to handle it is to turn the number 3 skill into a toggle, so that you don’t need your arrow to hit anything to go stealth. You go into a stealth, and then the part 2 of the skill is debatable, though I’d make a push for some sort of soft CC (cripple, chill, immobilize from stealth even, similar to a thief but nowhere near the duration?).

At this point, due to the nature of Moment of Clarity, I would also like to see either Rapid Fire or Barrage be turned into a single hit, bit damage style skill, in order to have so play off of moment of clarity and be able to combo LB4 into the damage skill. I wouldn’t begin to have a suggestion, other than single hit damage, and please no holding a key to charge a skill, the controls can already be clunky to those of us keyboard warriors as it is without trying to strafe around AND hold ANOTHER button down while trying to strafe. I only have so many fingers and a thumb, and I already actively use all of them when I’m playing.

Just spitballing, maybe turn Rapid Fire into an inverse Hundred Blades of sorts, functionality wise. Let’s take Rapid Fire and make it 5 shots With like a 3 second total channel. The first shot is a big damage hit that is essentially 5 of the old arrows combined into a single hit of damage, and applies 5 stacks of vulnerability, followed up by 4 regular shots, fired at a “rapid” pace. Picture it looking like a single, aimed, precise shot that hits for big damage because it was aimed and precisely fired, followed by a volley to down the person in case they aren’t dead, if that makes any sort of visual sense.

I don’t know what to do with Barrage. I mean, my idea right now is just to keep it as is but have it remove a boon per hit (so yes, if a person gets hit all 12 times, then 12 boons removed). Also, it’s a bandaid solution to Barrage doing half our half because of retaliation against groups that have it, on top of it being the boon removal I so desperately want.

Sorry guys, I know I write text walls, but I want to reason out everything for discussion purposes. I know it’s a lot.

Make barrage similar to conjure ice bow 4. Instead of ice, it rains blobs of mud that apply cripple, damage and if traited with eagle eye, also boon removal to 5ppl.
Protection (self) 3 seconds
Retaliation (self) 3 seconds
Number of mud bolts: 15
Damage per bolt: 340 * (0.85)
Cripple duration base: 2, 5 seconds
Boons removed per person per hit: 1
Aoe radius: 360
Damage radius: 120
Cast time/channel time: 3 seconds
Cooldown: 35 seconds

jcbroe.4329:

So I personally still think that the best way to handle it is to turn the number 3 skill into a toggle, so that you don’t need your arrow to hit anything to go stealth. You go into a stealth, and then the part 2 of the skill is debatable, though I’d make a push for some sort of soft CC (cripple, chill, immobilize from stealth even, similar to a thief but nowhere near the duration?).

At this point, due to the nature of Moment of Clarity, I would also like to see either Rapid Fire or Barrage be turned into a single hit, bit damage style skill, in order to have so play off of moment of clarity and be able to combo LB4 into the damage skill. I wouldn’t begin to have a suggestion, other than single hit damage, and please no holding a key to charge a skill, the controls can already be clunky to those of us keyboard warriors as it is without trying to strafe around AND hold ANOTHER button down while trying to strafe. I only have so many fingers and a thumb, and I already actively use all of them when I’m playing.

I completly support this changes: having LB#3 as an on-demand stealth would improve A LOT surviability and would combine very nicely with Moment of Clarity and Remorseless, without having to rely on you hitting a target.

And yes, as a power weapon LB needs a burst skill, so Rapid Fire nedds to be changed/improved because right now its best use is as “stealth-tracker” thanks to stupid game mechanic.

I’ve never been a fan of removing Rapid Fire and simply replacing it with a burst skill. For starters I feel we need/deserve more than one burst skill. Secondly, it would probably need a considerable cooldown increase if the damage was improved to the point to really be reliable. It would also not change much of the flow of the class imo because we can’t really follow it up with anything or combo it with much.

I’ve also never been a fan of barrage. It does short bow damage to 5 targets and ends up doing much more harm to us than to them. Now making it a boon strip is certainly going to make it more valuable and would probably finally give us some functional use in a zerg. But even with this added utility, I still feel like the skill is out of place and is still very clunky to use.

#2: Either increase the damage by about 10% or reduce the channel time down to 3.5 seconds and adjust damage so it only sees ~10% increase damage. This will make the skill a burst skill.

#3: I like your 2 phase solution to this skill and I’ve been saying since day one that it should stealth us regardless of hitting or not. If the arrow hits, have it immobilize for 1 second. You could then still have your secondary skill while in stealth do something.

#4: This skill is fine and doesn’t need any real work imo.

#5: It doesn’t synergize well with #3 because it pulls us out of stealth. The root limits its use while roaming. The damage is too low. The ROF being so similar to shortbow means we reflect too much damage. Your boon stripping idea will resolve some of these issues, but it still is a skill that I don’t think fits on the weapon. This would make room for a second burst skill (kill shot being the laziest option).

Now as for barrage I see 2 viable alternatives. Remove spike trap and replace it with barrage as I’ve suggested in the past. All you’d have to do is make barrage bleed on each wave and immobilize briefly on the first wave and it’s already better than a 6pt spike trap in use, just would hit the cooldown pretty hard.

Alternatively, why can’t barrage be molded to fit your secondary #3 skill? Instead of doing 12 waves of shots, it could do 6. It may be too powerful with a 12 second cooldown to remove boons, but what if it removed boons only on crit? Still too powerful? Cut back the waves to 4 or spread the waves out to 1 second each instead of .5. Find some reasonable middle ground.

Long bow

1. I feel that ANet wanted this to be the main source of damage for power plays similar to 100blades and guards hammer 2, if we’re talking about burst this should be the skill. if were talking about risk and reward then why not make it a skill shot that does damage? imagine GS warriors #3 skill with that UI to help you aim, make it so that rapid fire fires 3 quick shot in a direction, each arrows damage equivalent to 1200 max range auto attack with guaranteed critical hit on those 3 attacks, or if youre feeling generous balance team, make it so that 1st shot is so devastating it makes your foe vulnerable (5 stacks), now thats a burst

2. LB #3 Ive seen some nice suggestions on this one already from the forums. I do like the on demand stealth, if ANet would comply with this and make it a 2 part, why not make our pet do the 2nd part of the skill?

Change to: Stealth you for 3 seconds, your pets next attack (insert CC here) your target.

3. LB #5 though I don’t agree on making it single hit, LB is a weapons choice IMO it needs some kind of AOE, If ANet would consider boon stripping on this skill IMO that would be over the top, cause Barrage fires 5 rounds or 6? Initial shot could remove a boon not the whole wave though, and this skill should be able us to land it at least 3/5 times in its full duration, its such a high channeled skill by the time the animation even fire that 2nd round your enemy would be in front of your face already. IMO this skill should be the exclamation of LB ranger to live up to its name, Barrage sounds cool but the execution is crap

If this guy is still alive: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Master_of_Damage

he would tell you that LB skill #5 is crap and should only be use if you’re planning to commit suicide.

I certainly hear where you’re coming from AEFA with boon stripping being a very powerful tool but I want you to consider 3 things…

1.) The hammer train meta has been the only viable WvW meta for quite some time now even with the stun nerf because of all the boons and how easy they are to get.

2.) We’re talking about the Ranger class here. There’s an enormous void that needs to be filled before we ever need worry of the Ranger class getting close to the GWEN meta.

3.) Is a pulsing 6 second ‘field’ on the ground really that much more powerful than a Mesmer’s null field?

Isn’t it about time we had a real solution to the Hammer train? Is there a reason it can’t be Rangers to do it?

jcbroe.4329:

I think I’m finally on the verge of breaking down and going with Jon Peters on taking the evade off of autoattack. Yes, zerg surfers will forever cry, and there are of course a million different ideas and none of them are truly wrong, but GS4 should gain Autoattack3s evade and animation, while still attempting a knockback on the person who triggered the skill, and Swoop should also be an evade during the leap animation at the very least (maybe not the entire run duration, because it’s a harder to control variable). The new autoattack 3 should restore endurance, similarly to how the thief dagger works.

Do you really need 2 evades? Having an evade on GS#3 could be enough. This way Swoop can be used as gap closer and as defensive skill while in close combat. Having a second evade would be a bit redundant. I’d rather have a pbae Blind+Stealth on GS#4 (see Prestige). This would not only make GS#4 usable against multiple targets, it also creates synergies with Remorseless/Opening Strike which the GS currently lacks. Additionally, positioning for landing a GS#5 stun will be a lot easier. However, stealthed Mauls could be nasty.

I really like the idea of gaining endurance on the third hit of the AA.

jcbroe.4329:

So I personally still think that the best way to handle it is to turn the number 3 skill into a toggle, so that you don’t need your arrow to hit anything to go stealth. You go into a stealth, and then the part 2 of the skill is debatable, though I’d make a push for some sort of soft CC (cripple, chill, immobilize from stealth even, similar to a thief but nowhere near the duration?).

I really like the idea AEFA made since it creates the feeling of working with your pet. It could still receive Swiftness and then apply the soft CC in close combat.

jcbroe.4329:

Just spitballing, maybe turn Rapid Fire into an inverse Hundred Blades of sorts, functionality wise. Let’s take Rapid Fire and make it 5 shots With like a 3 second total channel. The first shot is a big damage hit that is essentially 5 of the old arrows combined into a single hit of damage, and applies 5 stacks of vulnerability, followed up by 4 regular shots, fired at a “rapid” pace. Picture it looking like a single, aimed, precise shot that hits for big damage because it was aimed and precisely fired, followed by a volley to down the person in case they aren’t dead, if that makes any sort of visual sense.

I think frontoading a portion of the damage of Rapid Fire into the first arrow is a very smart idea. I would not like to see a Maul-like skill on LB because it might simply be too much considering the range and the availability of stealth. Your suggestion appears to be a good compromise.

jcbroe.4329:

I don’t know what to do with Barrage. I mean, my idea right now is just to keep it as is but have it remove a boon per hit (so yes, if a person gets hit all 12 times, then 12 boons removed).

This would be way too much boon removal. Personally, I’d like to be able to cast it while moving. Such a change would make the gameplay a lot less clunky. If it still needs a buff, I would be fine with one or two boons being removed on the first pulse. I also like mechanics like you see on the Mesmer Sword AA. For example, Barrage could deal extra damage to targets affected by Vulnerability. This would create synergies with other skills without granting too much brainless damage.

Atherakhia.4086:

#5: It doesn’t synergize well with #3 because it pulls us out of stealth.

I do agree that Barrage needs some work but I don’t see stealth being an issue. Thieves and Mesmers face the same problem with bouncing attacks or area effects. Hunters Shot just isn’t supposed to be used after Barrage.

Prysin.8542:

Make barrage similar to conjure ice bow 4. Instead of ice, it rains blobs of mud that apply cripple, damage and if traited with eagle eye, also boon removal to 5ppl.
Protection (self) 3 seconds
Retaliation (self) 3 seconds
Number of mud bolts: 15
Damage per bolt: 340 * (0.85)
Cripple duration base: 2, 5 seconds
Boons removed per person per hit: 1
Aoe radius: 360
Damage radius: 120
Cast time/channel time: 3 seconds
Cooldown: 35 seconds

That would be a nice improvement for barrage, however I think raining mud might look a bit goofy aesthetically. I think a boon removal for rangers would be really nice, but I think if barrage would be a boon strip the CD would have to increased a bit more otherwise it might be too powerful. Cool idea though.

Xaylin.1860:

Atherakhia.4086:

#5: It doesn’t synergize well with #3 because it pulls us out of stealth.

I do agree that Barrage needs some work but I don’t see stealth being an issue. Thieves and Mesmers face the same problem with bouncing attacks or area effects. Hunters Shot just isn’t supposed to be used after Barrage.

But there’s no stealth for shortbow unless you use a utility skill and the bouncing attacks are also quite quick. They don’t leave a pulsing field on the ground that lock you out of stealthing for 6 seconds for example.

As for Mesmers, do the clone attacks take them out of stealth? Pretty sure they don’t.

Atherakhia.4086:

I certainly hear where you’re coming from AEFA with boon stripping being a very powerful tool but I want you to consider 3 things…

1.) The hammer train meta has been the only viable WvW meta for quite some time now even with the stun nerf because of all the boons and how easy they are to get.

2.) We’re talking about the Ranger class here. There’s an enormous void that needs to be filled before we ever need worry of the Ranger class getting close to the GWEN meta.

3.) Is a pulsing 6 second ‘field’ on the ground really that much more powerful than a Mesmer’s null field?

Isn’t it about time we had a real solution to the Hammer train? Is there a reason it can’t be Rangers to do it?

Cant really comment on WVW hammer train cause I’ve never actually joined a zerg in wvw Im straight pve and pvp type of player that being 80% of my play time in pvp. But Im sure Anet is aware of Hammer trend in wvw and it needs a counter. If we’re talking about a solution as a Ranger on LB to counter a hard CC:

Solutions

1. Give Ranger a trait to deal extra damage per boon on foes (im assuming Warriors in wvw are on Balance Stance when they zerg? same as in pvp hambow warrs) Told ANet about this already in CDI to change Beastmasters Bond.

2. Stability Training : on pet swap (porcine, ursine, armor fish) provide Stability on nearby allies. Told ANet about this already as well in CDI.

If you really want to go to the extreme then Ill go to the extreme of changing things since we’re in the abyss for weapon skills.

Longbow

1. Point blank shot change to: Your arrow pierces and knock back foes in a line. Could be made into a skill shot.

2. Barrage change to: immobalize targets in an area 1s. remove 1 boon per pulse and deals 1% extra damage to enemy per enemy in the zone. Cast time reduced to 1.75s. Pulses 3 times.

Greatsword

1. Swoop change to: evade incoming attacks for the duration, attack, and knockdown nearby foes.

2. Hilt Bash change to: dash and evade incoming attack (1/2 second) and daze your foe. Stun from behind. Your pets next attack does 50% more damage.

3. Auto attack change to JCs suggestion of giving endurance back.

@Xaylin;

I like your greatsword idea better than mine, and I was just spitballing with a lot of them for discussion purposes, but I’m glad they netted some support! I agree wholeheartedly with all of you feedback too.

Now, this is going to be another “throwing it out there” idea, because it would be the first skill with this particular type of, let’s say, selective boon targeting, but what if Barrage was a field that removed particular boons? Like, make it a slightly more offense Chaos Field (mesmer staff 5 if that isn’t the name). So that it rips a single boon out of an array of protection, retaliation, and maybe swiftness? Dunno, three might be too many, but the important one is retaliation. So if it removed retaliation and protection, either on a 50% chance for either (100% chance to remove a single boon out of those two), or even like, every 3rd hit removes a boon (any boon)?

I mean, I think that currently it’s a hard thing to judge.

@Thread in general;
However, I do know for a fact that out of ever class with a “viable” power build, every one has a way of removing boons except eles and rangers, and eles have god-like self sustain and group support even on their offensive builds, so they fill that role better than any other class imo (offensive support). But rangers need something like boon removal or destruction of the empowered or something. And please, not another Sic’ Em applies reveal type change that in the grand scheme of combat doesn’t improve our competition for a best in slot role.

Atherakhia.4086:

But there’s no stealth for shortbow unless you use a utility skill and the bouncing attacks are also quite quick. They don’t leave a pulsing field on the ground that lock you out of stealthing for 6 seconds for example.

As for Mesmers, do the clone attacks take them out of stealth? Pretty sure they don’t.

Does it really matter wether the skill his on the same weapon or not? Thieves and Mesmers still have to be careful because a lot of their stealth comes from utilities/elites. Especially Mesmers have a lot of trouble because of this. For example, Staff AA breaks Decoy and Mass Invisibility quite often. You also can’t use Chaos Storm properly and so on. Thieves are less susceptible to this issue but they still are affected to a certain extent.

As said earlier, I don’t see this an issue. Because I don’t believe that Hunters Shot is supposed to be used after Barrage. It is one of the view downsides stealth can have and I think it is legitimate.

To ask differently: Why would you want to use Hunters Shot after using Barrage? How would a change improve the Longbow? Maybe you could elaborate on this topic since it apparently is something which has been bothering you for a while.

jcbroe.4329:

@Xaylin;

I like your greatsword idea better than mine, and I was just spitballing with a lot of them for discussion purposes, but I’m glad they netted some support! I agree wholeheartedly with all of you feedback too.

That’s nice to hear. Thanks.

I consider the difference between a weapon not working with itself and a weapon not working with another weapon or utility to be quite significant actually.

As for a scenario? I channel barrage into a choke to snare the zerg and a thief jumps me mid channel or after the channel completes?

I feel weapons should have some kind of natural flow within themselves. If the skills don’t ‘flow’ together the weapon doesn’t ‘feel’ right. Gameplay is clunky etc. All subjective feelings, I know…

With Barrage, it is the only AE on a single target weapon. It requires you to remain stationairy to use on a mobile class. And it simply doesn’t work with the #3 skill on the same weapon. In addition to this, barrage is just a terrible skill all together.

Now improving barrage is great. I’m all for it in fact. I just would much rather see the skill moved elsewhere because the weapon simply doesn’t have room for it and it doesn’t complimenet the weapon or playstyle at all.

What I would like to see on the longbow:

1. Change the AA to a 3-hit combo: 1. shot: halfed casttime, lower damage. 2. shot: longer casttime, higher damage. 3. shot: normal casttime and damage with a debuff (short cripple/vulnerability)
   The 1. shot should be fast firing, so you can use it between skill activations. The 2. shot should be the one you would ideally buff with SoH. The 3. shot should increase either the damage you can deal or the ability to kite enemies. No damage decrease but conditions become weaker (3 vuln at 1000+, 1 vuln at 500+, 0 vuln at 0+)
2. Change the channel to kittens over 2 seconds. Each hit knocks the enemy back based on the range between the enemy and the ranger.
   This skill takes the utility #4 offers currently.
3. This skill should be on a low cooldown, blinds a target and gives Opening Strike.
   1000+ units: 5s blind and Opening Strike, 500+ units: 3s blind and Opening Strike, 0+ units: no blind and no Opening Strike. 8s cooldown.
   If your target is in melee range (150), you’ll stab it, use 3s stealth and evade backwards (like Hornet Sting)
   Again, you get benefits if you stay at range but it’s not required to be effective.
4. Change it to Pin Down, just swap the bleed for 10 stacks vuln.
5. Barrage just fires one pulse of AoE and can be used 5 times. Each pulse has a seperated cooldown.
   If someone knows LoL, this should work like Akali’s ult.

Something like that would be nice.

Xaylin.1860:

Do you really need 2 evades? Having an evade on GS#3 could be enough. This way Swoop can be used as gap closer and as defensive skill while in close combat. Having a second evade would be a bit redundant. I’d rather have a pbae Blind+Stealth on GS#4 (see Prestige). This would not only make GS#4 usable against multiple targets, it also creates synergies with Remorseless/Opening Strike which the GS currently lacks. Additionally, positioning for landing a GS#5 stun will be a lot easier. However, stealthed Mauls could be nasty.

I really like the idea of gaining endurance on the third hit of the AA.

I don’t like this idea since movement is as mandatory to win a fight as dealing damage is. You’ll probably swoop into a fight and you want to stick with it to until you need it (e.g. if you want to use sigil of intelligence, to disengage or to close up to your target if it evades). So you have to decide if you want to use Swoop to evade attacks or to use it in the named situations. I think we should stick with the dogma that every skill has one special purpose. Furthermore, if GS3 would be our only evade, it would be shortened if we stay in front of our target. Evenso, we would lose a lot of durability (the current evade makes us invulnerable 1/3 -1/4 of the time of a fight).

I think an evade would be nice on swoop, but not if it would be our only evade.

I do agree that Barrage needs some work but I don’t see stealth being an issue. Thieves and Mesmers face the same problem with bouncing attacks or area effects. Hunters Shot just isn’t supposed to be used after Barrage.

But you’ll probably need Hunters Shot the most after you’ve rooted yourself for almost 3 seconds.

Atherakhia.4086:

As for a scenario? I channel barrage into a choke to snare the zerg and a thief jumps me mid channel or after the channel completes?

And what exactly keeps you from using LB#4 instead?

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I think we should stick with the dogma that every skill has one special purpose.

Since when is this the case? Many skills can be used for different purposes.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Furthermore, if GS3 would be our only evade, it would be shortened if we stay in front of our target.

It might require some programming but it shouldn’t be that hard to add a fixed evasion frame to the skill regardless how far the distance is. If this is not possible, my suggestion would indeed not make any sense.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Evenso, we would lose a lot of durability (the current evade makes us invulnerable 1/3 -1/4 of the time of a fight).

I don’t mind the evade on AA. But it promotes very spammy gameplay and doesn’t enable you to actually counter specific skills. I guess that is the reason why the devs considered moving the evade.

Xaylin.1860:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I think we should stick with the dogma that every skill has one special purpose.

Since when is this the case? Many skills can be used for different purposes.

If you look at Shortbow, each skill has 1 particilar reason to use it. Posion if the enemy is about to heal, cripple if he charges at you, evasion if you have to evade a big attack and the stun/daze if you have to interrupt a channeling enemy.
Same with the current GS skills. Maul to deal damage, simply use it whenever you can. Swoop to close/gain distance. Block to block certain attacks or projectiles and a daze/stun to interrupt channels or to set up big attacks.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Evenso, we would lose a lot of durability (the current evade makes us invulnerable 1/3 -1/4 of the time of a fight).

I don’t mind the evade on AA. But it promotes very spammy gameplay and doesn’t enable you to actually counter specific skills. I guess that is the reason why the devs considered moving the evade.

I do mind. It negates a lot of damage afterall. If you just take this away, GS would really suffer. I would even say that our GS AA is the strongest AA ingame since you’re evading so frequently.

But yeah, the current AA is a perfect example of a skill designed for 2 different purposes.
You have to attack to deal damage but you would have to hold back with the 3rd strike to counter certain attacks.

That’s what I fear happens to the Swoop. You would have to use it to negate damage but you want to hold back on it to gain/close distance.

I want to know why people don’t think it is a viable weaponset.

• Do they expect Longbow Power rangers should be viable in a 1v1 fight?
• Do they want Longbow power rangers to be a close-mid range weaponset?

What is their vision exactly?

runeblade.7514:

I want to know why people don’t think it is a viable weaponset.

• Do they expect Longbow Power rangers should be viable in a 1v1 fight?
• Do they want Longbow power rangers to be a close-mid range weaponset?

What is their vision exactly?

What is your vision exactly? The longbow has just one single strength and that’s the 1000+ range combat. Yet the whole game is not designed to support this style of play.
Each player is easily able to close up to you or to outdamage you (Meteor Shower says hi). In PvE, you’re simply never forced to use such great range, you can melee all the time and everything. The current LB has no place or a very limited one.

Not to mention all the flaws the LB has:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ranger-Balance-Post-CDI/page/22#post3997491

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Xaylin.1860:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I think we should stick with the dogma that every skill has one special purpose.

Since when is this the case? Many skills can be used for different purposes.

If you look at Shortbow, each skill has 1 particilar reason to use it. Posion if the enemy is about to heal, cripple if he charges at you, evasion if you have to evade a big attack and the stun/daze if you have to interrupt a channeling enemy.
Same with the current GS skills. Maul to deal damage, simply use it whenever you can. Swoop to close/gain distance. Block to block certain attacks or projectiles and a daze/stun to interrupt channels or to set up big attacks.

Isn’t that a very one-dimensional view on skills?

SB#5 can also be used to avoid an attack.
GS#5 can also be used to avoid an attack.
Sw#3 can be used to poison and avoid an attack.

Not every skill has several purposes and most probably have a main purpose. But still, many skills can be used in different situations for different reasons. I actually prefer skills being designed this way because it increases the skill ceiling and makes fights a lot more interesting. I certainly can’t see a single-purpose-policy for skills in GW2.

Of course, you got to be careful not to overload a single skill with too many functions. But think about it. GS#3 is kind of useless while within a fight. It basically is a dead button on your bar. An evade frame would suddenly make it appealing within a fight without becoming too powerful.

Xaylin.1860:

Isn’t that a very one-dimensional view on skills?

SB#5 can also be used to avoid an attack.
GS#5 can also be used to avoid an attack.
Sw#3 can be used to poison and avoid an attack.

I don’t think so. You can use SB#5 and GS#5 for different reasons but all serve the same purpose: To stop your enemy from what he is currently doing.
I don’t use Sw#3 because it can really screw your positioning and it interferes with the AA. I would also value the poison not that high to deny myself the evade.

Not every skill has several purposes and most probably have a main purpose. But still, many skills can be used in different situations for different reasons. I actually prefer skills being designed this way because it increases the skill ceiling and makes fights a lot more interesting. I certainly can’t see a single-purpose-policy for skills in GW2.

Of course, you got to be careful not to overload a single skill with too many functions. But think about it. GS#3 is kind of useless while within a fight. It basically is a dead button on your bar. An evade frame would suddenly make it appealing within a fight without becoming too powerful.

I really don’t think it’s a dead button. It deals higher damage as your AA’s are doing and while fighting an other player the gapcloser really comes in handy. Furthermore, it synergises well with Sigil of Intelligence.

jcbroe.4329:

I think I’m finally on the verge of breaking down and going with Jon Peters on taking the evade off of autoattack. Yes, zerg surfers will forever cry, and there are of course a million different ideas and none of them are truly wrong, but GS4 should gain Autoattack3s evade and animation, while still attempting a knockback on the person who triggered the skill, and Swoop should also be an evade during the leap animation at the very least (maybe not the entire run duration, because it’s a harder to control variable). The new autoattack 3 should restore endurance, similarly to how the thief dagger works.

Couple that with a longer range hilt bash, and we have a very, very nasty weapon on our hands that can still do decent damage, and has the defensive utility that it currently feels as though it’s lacking.

Longbow, oh longbow. I will forever hate rapid fire, and an extension of that is hating barrage, because both skills make the weapon very clunky to use and seemingly slow down the pace of combat and the weapon.

Durz and I were talking about how we agreed that shortbow gets one thing right (all the damage focused in the autoattack is not it) in the sense that it has “an arrow for every occassion.” It’s very Green Arrow or Hawkeye style (don’t start a DC vs Marvel debate here please, that’s what the rest of the internet is for haha), and should conceptually be applied to the longbow as well.

So I personally still think that the best way to handle it is to turn the number 3 skill into a toggle, so that you don’t need your arrow to hit anything to go stealth. You go into a stealth, and then the part 2 of the skill is debatable, though I’d make a push for some sort of soft CC (cripple, chill, immobilize from stealth even, similar to a thief but nowhere near the duration?).

At this point, due to the nature of Moment of Clarity, I would also like to see either Rapid Fire or Barrage be turned into a single hit, bit damage style skill, in order to have so play off of moment of clarity and be able to combo LB4 into the damage skill. I wouldn’t begin to have a suggestion, other than single hit damage, and please no holding a key to charge a skill, the controls can already be clunky to those of us keyboard warriors as it is without trying to strafe around AND hold ANOTHER button down while trying to strafe. I only have so many fingers and a thumb, and I already actively use all of them when I’m playing.

Just spitballing, maybe turn Rapid Fire into an inverse Hundred Blades of sorts, functionality wise. Let’s take Rapid Fire and make it 5 shots With like a 3 second total channel. The first shot is a big damage hit that is essentially 5 of the old arrows combined into a single hit of damage, and applies 5 stacks of vulnerability, followed up by 4 regular shots, fired at a “rapid” pace. Picture it looking like a single, aimed, precise shot that hits for big damage because it was aimed and precisely fired, followed by a volley to down the person in case they aren’t dead, if that makes any sort of visual sense.

I don’t know what to do with Barrage. I mean, my idea right now is just to keep it as is but have it remove a boon per hit (so yes, if a person gets hit all 12 times, then 12 boons removed). Also, it’s a bandaid solution to Barrage doing half our half because of retaliation against groups that have it, on top of it being the boon removal I so desperately want.

Sorry guys, I know I write text walls, but I want to reason out everything for discussion purposes. I know it’s a lot.

/agree

I brought many of these points up on the CDI.

Ranger power builds CAN exist through moment of clarity.
The issue is there is a lack of weapon synergy with the trait.
And the long bow as the ranger power weapon needs this synergy
PBS to a new #2… YEA !

as for zerg surfing. It will hurt a little but not much. You do a little more damage with faster AA and just build a little tankier.

As for zergs, a point was brought up that rangers lack aoe but that is just not true.
Axe + Traps is fantastic midline AOE.

The issue is when you do this you are midline and have no condi removal, thats because your taking traps instead of WS skills and your pet is dead so EB won’t proc.

I still feel that a BM should be more of (when you swap a pet they do this) that way a player can put points in BM, take tanky pets so they don’t die. and use swap traits to make use of them.

Examples
Pure swap
(you remove 3 conditions from yourself when you swap pets)
Sheltered Swap
(You and your pet gain 5 pets gain 5 seconds of protection when activated)
Trick swap
(Your pets automatically use F2 upon being swapped in) (allow for 2 F2’s)
I will avenge you
(Dead pet swap reduced by 20%, you gain might and quickness when your pet dies)

@rpfohr.7048;

I love pet swap traits, and I love your suggestions for them particularly. I can totally back all of those, and have especially been wanting a condi cleanse on pet swap for a very, very long time now.

So definitely agreed, and +1.

I would love it if they simply reduce the swap penalty unconditionally rather than through a trait.

And +1 to moving the evade from aa to Swoop. In fact I would love it if Devs add in that Whirl Finisher to Power Stab in addition to Blast on Maul. Oh well a guy can dream…

Dunno if you guys saw this but while we already know about it, I think it’s pretty revelant.
Anet please watch this :
Two pets trying to hit each other

arkealia.2713:

Dunno if you guys saw this but while we already know about it, I think it’s pretty revelant.
Anet please watch this :
Two pets trying to hit each other

Mob AI FTW!

arkealia.2713:

Dunno if you guys saw this but while we already know about it, I think it’s pretty revelant.
Anet please watch this :
Two pets trying to hit each other

LOL.
I’m going to save it and re-post it to anyone who says in a forum that ranger pets are too strong and you can’t escape from them.

arkealia.2713:

Dunno if you guys saw this but while we already know about it, I think it’s pretty revelant.
Anet please watch this :
Two pets trying to hit each other

Yeah. That’s the change they made to the pet AI awhile back that makes the pet initiate it’s attack on the flank of what it’s attacking. It was meant as a PvE change so that they don’t run into the cleave of a enemy like a boss in a dungeon, which truthfully has improved dungeon survivability, but it’s also one of those changes were, when the improvement was made for a single game mode, it affects the other game modes in the manner shown in the video.

It’s pretty unfortunate.

jcbroe.4329:

arkealia.2713:

Dunno if you guys saw this but while we already know about it, I think it’s pretty revelant.
Anet please watch this :
Two pets trying to hit each other

Yeah. That’s the change they made to the pet AI awhile back that makes the pet initiate it’s attack on the flank of what it’s attacking. It was meant as a PvE change so that they don’t run into the cleave of a enemy like a boss in a dungeon, which truthfully has improved dungeon survivability, but it’s also one of those changes were, when the improvement was made for a single game mode, it affects the other game modes in the manner shown in the video.

It’s pretty unfortunate.

Well… no. Exept they change the complete mob AI if they change something related to pets. I observed the same behaving between my pet and a random mob who’s running at my pet.

It’s only an issue with 2 mob AI’s. The pet won’t do that to a player. Same thing happened in WoW and WAR.

just pathetic ai design i dont have anything else to add

HHR LostProphet.4801:

jcbroe.4329:

arkealia.2713:

Dunno if you guys saw this but while we already know about it, I think it’s pretty revelant.
Anet please watch this :
Two pets trying to hit each other

Yeah. That’s the change they made to the pet AI awhile back that makes the pet initiate it’s attack on the flank of what it’s attacking. It was meant as a PvE change so that they don’t run into the cleave of a enemy like a boss in a dungeon, which truthfully has improved dungeon survivability, but it’s also one of those changes were, when the improvement was made for a single game mode, it affects the other game modes in the manner shown in the video.

It’s pretty unfortunate.

Well… no. Exept they change the complete mob AI if they change something related to pets. I observed the same behaving between my pet and a random mob who’s running at my pet.

Yeah, pets share mob AI for sure, but have more things special to them due to their “unique” situation.

As mentioned, they don’t have this behavior with other plays. Outside of their prioritized skill queue, they are pretty good about sticking to players, and players do require a speed boost of some sort to effectively kite our pets.

Has anyone ever considered making Fortifying Bond work both ways? I basically want this to combine with Companion’s Might so we can give ourselves Might stacks and use Rune of Strength. Additionally, vigor can be potentially useful for the pet.

To prevent abuse, the effect should only work once per boon. To elaborate, if my pet shares a Might with me using the above combo, my pet won’t get a second Might just because of the one from the pet, and vice versa. Another obvious restriction is that boons from your pet are affected by Concentration Training only.

I can see some potential risks with this. One example is that Stalker F2 might become over the top, especially when you solo, since you and the cat will be getting 10 stacks each. Still not a big deal when you’re in a party.

I suppose another risk is that there will be more Bearbows because this change will make people lazier than ever, since they can still stand 1200 away and aaing with longbow while getting boons from the rest of the party while giving nothing back.

What do you think?

What if, we added boon ripping+sharing to first strike through the remorseless trait?
Since its a gm trait we should be able to spread them to allies in a small aoe around us…
Then maybe we would have a reason to use remorseless. Since remorseless takes up the spot for RtW, we wouldnt be 100% sure to hit targets, therefore it balancess itself out a little.
To further balance it, add +2 more seconds of stealth to hunters shot, add pet gains stealth too and increase hunters shot cd to 20 seconds.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I don’t think so. You can use SB#5 and GS#5 for different reasons but all serve the same purpose: To stop your enemy from what he is currently doing.
I don’t use Sw#3 because it can really screw your positioning and it interferes with the AA. I would also value the poison not that high to deny myself the evade.

Isn’t that just arguing about the definition of ‘purpose’ or ‘reason’?

Fact is, that many skills can be utilized in different ways and as long as a skill isn’t overcrowded with functionalities it adds depth to the gameplay. Currently Swoop is mainly used for closing a gap or creating one. It is rather unimportant for the fight itself.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I really don’t think it’s a dead button. It deals higher damage as your AA’s are doing and while fighting an other player the gapcloser really comes in handy. Furthermore, it synergises well with Sigil of Intelligence.

Are you sure about that? I never ran a test but considering the cast time I’m not sure if the damage is a lot higher. As it is now, I’d always prefer to spam AA because it also comes with an evade. And is a pretty sad thing to say.

Not sure how Swoop synergizes with Sigil of Intelligence any better than other skills.

Xaylin.1860:

Isn’t that just arguing about the definition of ‘purpose’ or ‘reason’?

Fact is, that many skills can be utilized in different ways and as long as a skill isn’t overcrowded with functionalities it adds depth to the gameplay. Currently Swoop is mainly used for closing a gap or creating one. It is rather unimportant for the fight itself.

So if Swoop would only be there for closing or creating gaps, you’ll still would not want it to use for the evade, simply because there are so many ways your fight could go wrong and you have to retreat or your enemy retreats and you’ve just used Swoop to dodge.

Xaylin.1860:

Are you sure about that? I never ran a test but considering the cast time I’m not sure if the damage is a lot higher. As it is now, I’d always prefer to spam AA because it also comes with an evade. And is a pretty sad thing to say.

Not sure how Swoop synergizes with Sigil of Intelligence any better than other skills.

It does indeed hit pretty hard. Not as hard as Maul does but definitely harder than an AA. ou got basically 3 hardhitting spells on your GS: #4 if triggered, #3 and #2. 3 Spells for 3 charges. It does work pretty well.

Just check for yourself: Swoop vs. Slash

I see how taking off AA evade on GS would be more skill ful play in small fights, but it would make melee totally unusable in big fights.
I use swoop to engage/disengage or catch back with the lead if I happen to be separated from our main force.
It’s a great mitigation tool, and without it, it would be impossible to go melee in big fights with a build that also has correct damage….
It would just be another nerf to our survivability…

Jocksy.3415:

I see how taking off AA evade on GS would be more skill ful play in small fights, but it would make melee totally unusable in big fights.
I use swoop to engage/disengage or catch back with the lead if I happen to be separated from our main force.
It’s a great mitigation tool, and without it, it would be impossible to go melee in big fights with a build that also has correct damage….
It would just be another nerf to our survivability…

What if Swoop knock down your foes