Guild Wars 2

Rozbuska, do you mind to post your exact rotation and build?
I managed to do the…lets call it “dnt rotation”, but I am too slow with it. So any alternative is very welcomed

tyvm

Rozbuska.5263:

Jerus.4350:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Rozbuska.5263:

Azure.8670:

sorrychief.2563:

based on dps and utility

guardian
engineer
ele
warrior
mesmer
thief
ranger

not sure where you got thief has highest personal dps.
also bomb kit highest dps autoattack in game.

bomb kit doesnt have the highest dps auto attack, the meta engi pve build doesnt even use bomb kit.

That build what you called meta is sux then.

Bomb kit can have highest dps auto attack and still not be useful. Engi meta full rotation is higher dps than bomb auto.

Assuming you can hit max vuln though isn’t bomb kit going to weigh in higher than grenades though? Or is it just the auto and not the full rotation that’s higher damage?

Ofc its about autoattack. bombs hit for 9k and you can never compare it to grenade AA. But ofc you dont use grenades for AA but for shrapnel and freeze but thats another story:-)

Of course, but the question I’m curious on is that if for some reason you’re not concerned with the extra Vuln (say a second engi covering it?) would you be better off with the higher bomb auto, or with the shrapnel/freeze on rotation? I imagine you’d hit condi caps very quickly hurting the grenades a bit? /shrug It’s a hypothetical not likely to happen but I am curious.

Rozbuska.5263:

Foefaller.1082:

Rozbuska.5263:

Jerus.4350:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Rozbuska.5263:

Azure.8670:

sorrychief.2563:

based on dps and utility

guardian
engineer
ele
warrior
mesmer
thief
ranger

not sure where you got thief has highest personal dps.
also bomb kit highest dps autoattack in game.

bomb kit doesnt have the highest dps auto attack, the meta engi pve build doesnt even use bomb kit.

That build what you called meta is sux then.

Bomb kit can have highest dps auto attack and still not be useful. Engi meta full rotation is higher dps than bomb auto.

Assuming you can hit max vuln though isn’t bomb kit going to weigh in higher than grenades though? Or is it just the auto and not the full rotation that’s higher damage?

Ofc its about autoattack. bombs hit for 9k and you can never compare it to grenade AA. But ofc you dont use grenades for AA but for shrapnel and freeze but thats another story:-)

The thing is, the current meta build for Engineers does not sit idly for autoattack at all, but is in a constant state of swapping kits for the hardest hitting/most useful 2-5 skills of their kits and rifle, so taking bombs for its autoattack dps, even if it is one of the highest in the game, is unnecessary, even if there was a spot in the build for it.

Now, that being said, if you’re not doing orginized speed clears, you would be perfectly fine with a Bomb Kit engi, and I doubt anyone pugging with you would complain (unless something goes wrong and they start blaming you for their own shortcommings, of course)

I use rifle + bomb kit + tool kit + mines rotation with SD and its quite easy rotation with like 14k dps. Ofc I dont use bomb 1 whole time its like 3x AA before rotation is ready to repeat. Meta build what you talking about is good dont get me wrong (I hope you talk about what ppl wrong call “DnT” build) but dps isnt top and rotation is more complicated than its neccessary with lot of space to mistakes like bad acid bomb interupt or blast dont do double dmg while in corner ect. And yes there are skills what has more dps than autoattack on single kit but kit swap take some time too and you simply loosing there.

Oh you’re the guy who commented on my engie video. If you aren’t using acid bomb you’re playing a low dps engineer build, period.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

quaniesan.8497:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

oxtred.7658:

Please stop saying necro dps is the lowest, for god’s sake. How can you make a rant post about people not understanding the game and still say necro’s flaws are in its dps is beyond me.

It’s a fact that necro’s dps is the lowest in game. Necros also do not have any unique buffs they can bring to the group. Sadly enough GW2 dungeons can be played in such a way that most dungeon mechanics do not come to play. When stacking together in one tiny spot and burst dps’ing everything is viable, there are going to be classes left out.

I don’t think the devs meant for this to happen when they designed the dungeons, but none wants to spend 2 hours killing trash mobs before reaching a boss.

So yes, sadly enough, in the current “meta” dungeon runs, a necromancer keeps the group behind.

Prove it. Because I think you assuming, without knowing. I have participated in DPS test in the past. Posted videos on the matter. My experience with DPS says other wise.

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

These are the dps rankings after the september ballance update.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

I think you are really high with that ranking.

Yes, seems you know better than people who know all classes, hold several world speed records and have done an actual dps test. We are sorry.

Thanks for the acknowledgement. Apology accepted. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Indeed I do. Bow before me!

@dev: as to your question as to why we come up with such lists, I’m sure people have given here and there in the threads, and in their own respective professions threads …over the years. For necros/rangers, not to say they can’t kill, but there’s always better options. Rangers got a bit better lately, though most of the time people don’t manage their pet and cause complication for the run. Necro is durable but sure take some time to kill their target and obviously not quite desirable over others in dps oriented/time-constraint groups. Though i don’t mind the last member of the group being one of them in most scenarios … given they know what they are doing and pets are well managed.

In order of more inclined to least inclined to want to take into dungeons for me.. and i don’t do speed runs, just casual kitten ing..

1. Guardians – great team utility and durable. they often don’t go down and bring a lot of party buffs and aid without much effort on anyone’s part.

2/3 : Tied for Ele or Mesmer – similar to the above with the right builds and a good player. they can also offer a lot of dps and aid to control situations that start to get out of hand.

4. Warriors – durable and sometimes helpful, at least they don’t go down too terribly often if they know how to play. banner elite is a plus.

5. Engineers – strange utility and waver between very helpful and great to have to terribly selfish and something that needs to be backpacked through a path. depends on builds and requires above average understanding of both dungeon and class as well as fellow party member classes to be successful.

6. Necros – tanks and can be lovely but much of their utility is neutered by PvE’s lack of complex or advanced natures. great for support or damage sponging when passing up trash mobs tho. Low on the list due to game design, not lack of player skill or class builds.

7. Thief – Over reliant on stealth and don’t do well in long melee combats, limited ranged options and little to no team utility. low on the list due to both class and game design. While they can do great and do a lot of DPS, mobs that carry 60k HP still need a lot of hits before they go down, lack of team synergy is also a negative here.. stealth isnt great unless you’re skipping chunks of a dungeon.

and Last is Ranger.

Yes they have some stuff thats great for team utility but often its not brought to the field and that rangers offer 0 synergy with a team. they don’t cover for others short comings and Pet AI and pathing still causes many an issue. Many rangers i attempt to play with are more than happy to sit as far back from a fight as possible with LB these days and fire away at a target.

Rangers most often do not ever seem to mesh well with a team, due to the classes mechanics more so than any other classes. after all even thieves can run venom share or stealth their party before a wipe / reset and get things back on the right track.

..

I don’t want to seem as if i’m hating on rangers because of bad players, it’s just how I (a mesmer main) find the game to play out. A team with a majority of classes from the top 4 tends to be successful while a team of those classes 5 and below tends to fail and fail very quickly.

I have not played the game in a long time, but my main was elly…and always my favorite.

The trick to dungeons is building a sustaining-strategy for trash mobs, and a utility-strategy for bosses. What transpires is “same group, same strategy, all procedural” approach. The trick to real mastery is playing with different groups and seeing “what is available…what do we have to play with?”

Pardon my biases. I will throw my list:

1. Elementalist – Ellys were created to be a “party” class. They are at their strongest when they are in a group due to their offerings. Sure, they can solo and the many youtube video proves it, but in all the strength they offer soloing, they offer 10x more when fighting together with the group. However, one has to be careful as with any “Group Support” be it offensive, or defensive…a second elly in the party can make it or break it for the whole group. Two supports of any type (offensive, defensive, healer) require coordination.

2. Warriors: Why am I choosing warriors over guardians? Those banners are great, and that Elite Skill that can revive players from down state is amazing. Warriors (like elly) can make a crazy DPS build, but then throw in supports in their utilities. Its a shining example of how “opposites attract” and I like how it works out.

Guardians: Quite Put, their condition cleansing and simply being able to give 12 stacks of might on a staff is already offering a lot to a group. One skill = half-max might to the whole group. However, I’ve built entire party survival tactics around wall of reflection. Guardian really is one of the best.

Thief and Engineer (Second Tier): The problem is not the ability of these classes. Its usually the players. Many I’ve met play the classes in a limited way, using few of the resources offered to them. They use around 3 – 4 skills at most, and a utility when jammed up and repeat the process over and over. When a player really knows thief and engineer (and their learning and gearing curves) they truly shine…..but most of the two I’ve encountered I have shook my head and wondered if a “thief” trainer exists. Fortunately I knew several great thieves and engineers…

Ranger: The pet AI gets in the way and the one thing I do not want to do is have my party’s fate..or my character’s decided upon the success or failure of an AI. Not to say one can’t make ranger good…..but it would love for good ranger builds to exist without the need for pets….you know, more like the American Military’s Rangers and the expression “Rangers Lead The Way”

Necromancer: I have a level 80 necro myself. I’ve seen some promising necromancers. Really some stellar ones. Problem is that the style of the necro, and the meta that people want to play. Yes..I say “People want to play” because most people demand the same 2 -3 party set-ups in each dungeon, in order to achieve the same “familiar” run without trying anything new.

I can’t fight against this demand, or change it. All one can do is find another “interesting way” that would make necromancer viable. Unfortunately, I have seen necromancers do extremely well when the method of destroying the dungeon is unconventional and off the beaten track. I put it as last place due to the fact an “unwritten” and “conventional” standard has risen in the form of beating these dungeons. We sacrifice Creativity and Exploration for Ease, Security, and just getting through the dungeon to get our goods and continue on our way.

Personally, I like new and interesting ways…but all the same i don’t want to take an epoch to beat a dungeon either.

@Swish
ranking necros before thiefs and saying ‘Over reliant on stealth and don’t do well in long melee combats’…
uh

Super
1. Warrior
2. Guardian

Good
3. Elementalist
4. Mesmer
5. Thief

Ok
6. Engineer

Bad
7. Necromancer
8. Ranger

Top tier
1. Ele
2. Thief
3. Guard
4. Warrior
5. Engi
…
6. Mesmer
…
7. Ranger
…
…
…
8. Necro

rogerwilko.6895:

@Swish
ranking necros before thiefs and saying ‘Over reliant on stealth and don’t do well in long melee combats’…
uh

Hell I only use stealth on a few fractals, we usually just run past or smoke trash mobs otw. S/p zerker is the way to go except for bosses, then you adapt.

Usually if a necro is present they are behind trying to catch up due to lack of mobility :/

1. Elementalist. (which is normally me, I don’t trust others, a lot of baaaad elementalists out there, a good Elementalist is the ultimate pug carrier)

2. Warrior. (My ascended assassin Warrior can hit 35k hundred blades, 15k Final Thrust, that’s right sword, Final Thrust is an AoE Eviscerate that doesn’t take Adrenaline)

3. Guardians. (The less light fields, the better)

4. Thieves. (They can hit like trucks and scales amazingly with 25 stacks of might, however, finding a good one is a rarity)

5. Mesmers. (Phantasm build only, sorry and please let me might stack BEFORE tossing up Time Warp)

6. Rangers. (A lot of bad ones using Longbow at the bosses face, I try to avoid them)

7. Engineers. (ArenaNet just wants you guys to be condi spamgineers or a gimmick spike with a long cooldown, sorry )

8. Necromancers. (No! We don’t need conditions, dark fields, minions or anything you have to offer, just Lich Form and hope it recharges before we reach the next boss.)

The thing is, this is the list when I am playing my main Celestial D/D Elementalist with PuGs.

If I play any other class with zerker and everyone else is pure zerker too we just get wrecked. Spamming might, protection, heals and other boons so everyone can focus on high damage without having to back and heal (or die) makes a massive difference.

Having just one person to support a glassy team goes a loooooooooooooooong way.

1. Necromancer – All the hype that states Necromancer is useless, is total bs. I can do the same, if not more sustained DPS than a Warrior with Mainhand Dagger. Also, all 25 of those vulnerability stacks belong to me, along with that perma-CC, and I just revived you with Death Shroud…You’re welcome.

2. Thief – I like you as well. You do lots of lovely DPS, and you heal me with your comfortable, air-conditioned Shadow Refuge. But you’re a bit on the squishy side. Not that it matters, considering you’re healing capability is out-the-kitten, and you can just Shadowstep out of the way of anything nasty.

3. Mesmer – Portal is my friend. Time Warp is my friend. Mesmer is my friend. You also do oddles of DPS.

4. Elementalist – You’re annoying conjured weapons are degrading, but you can kill things, therefore you are my friends. Also, thanks for the 25 might stacks.

5. Guardian – Very balanced. I like the wide variety of stuff the Guardian can do, but they’re too squishy. They get one-shot by conditions due to being on the bottom tier of base-health, so make sure to use Sentinel’s gear or something of that nature.

6. Warrior – I don’t like you. You get hyped because you can DPS…So can every other class…Get out of my house, now. You also have terrible utility, and yellow particle effects are last season.

7. Engineer – You’re my friend, Engineers, but you don’t have the greatest DPS in the world, although you’re good at doing utility things. You’re nice and bulky though, so I don’t have to waste my sanity reviving you, unlike other people. ^w^ Looks at Berserker players

8. Ranger – Sorry, I don’t like you. You’re boring to play, you’re not a team player, you’re obnoxious, and you’re pet isn’t toilet trained. You do nice DPS though, so you can stay here for now.

Basically, I like Necro and Thief, the others are tolerable, except Warrior and Ranger, who need to leave.

Argon.1563:

7. Engineer – You’re my friend, Engineers, but you don’t have the greatest DPS in the world, although you’re good at doing utility things. You’re nice and bulky though, so I don’t have to waste my sanity reviving you, unlike other people. ^w^ Looks at Berserker players

Wat.

Gotta love how little people understand about Engineers.
Additionally, how often people put Heavies at the very top. Their easiness makes them reliable, yes. But they are not objectively the best.

Did you know? Assassin isn’t more tanky than berserker.

2. Warrior. (My ascended assassin Warrior can hit 35k hundred blades, 15k Final Thrust, that’s right sword, Final Thrust is an AoE Eviscerate that doesn’t take Adrenaline)

grats

1. Warrior
2. Engineer
3. Guardian
4. Elementalist
5. Thief
6. Ranger
7. Mesmer
8. Necromancer

maha.7902:

2. Warrior. (My ascended assassin Warrior can hit 35k hundred blades, 15k Final Thrust, that’s right sword, Final Thrust is an AoE Eviscerate that doesn’t take Adrenaline)

grats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e34poqOsWpk

Did I mention that is without 25 stacks of might, food, banners and ally traits backing it up?

People really underestimate assassins, it’s great for PuGs when your team lacks any sort of coordination, keeping your damage high when your team cannot help you keep it high.
The biggest downside is, World Bosses and structures like graveling mounds REALLY shows the lack of raw power and how reliable each hit landing a critical is.

I’m surprised how low thieves are landing on peoples lists, come now guys, a good thief can not only wreck face but help you skip half a dungeon.

NinjaEd.3946:

rogerwilko.6895:

@Swish
ranking necros before thiefs and saying ‘Over reliant on stealth and don’t do well in long melee combats’…
uh

Hell I only use stealth on a few fractals, we usually just run past or smoke trash mobs otw. S/p zerker is the way to go except for bosses, then you adapt.

Usually if a necro is present they are behind trying to catch up due to lack of mobility :/

I’m noting on the class as a whole, not just meta builds. I have seen some very good thieves but due to the majority of thief defense being tied up by the mechanic means a lot less wiggle room for those that play it.

Basically, thieves can be super as long as they are not attempting to attest to the now classic “play how you want” motto of Gw2 when it comes to dungeons.

Necros rank higher, because I, in my experience, find they have more wiggle room with builds and such so I have run into more good necros than i have thieves. even if they chug along in the back and slow things down a tad.

Nova Stiker.8396:

maha.7902:

2. Warrior. (My ascended assassin Warrior can hit 35k hundred blades, 15k Final Thrust, that’s right sword, Final Thrust is an AoE Eviscerate that doesn’t take Adrenaline)

grats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e34poqOsWpk

Did I mention that is without 25 stacks of might, food, banners and ally traits backing it up?

People really underestimate assassins, it’s great for PuGs when your team lacks any sort of coordination, keeping your damage high when your team cannot help you keep it high.
The biggest downside is, World Bosses and structures like graveling mounds REALLY shows the lack of raw power and how reliable each hit landing a critical is.

I’m surprised how low thieves are landing on peoples lists, come now guys, a good thief can not only wreck face but help you skip half a dungeon.

Honest question: If this build is for pugging, shouldn’t berserker be better actually? As a warrior you already have great solo fury uptime and banner of discipline so you’re not reliant on pugs to up your crit chance.

My ranking for dungeons:
1) Elementalist – might stacking, DPS, utilities – all superb
2) Warrior – core in every party, even if just for banners, respectable DPS
3) Guardian – blinds, aegis, protection, stability, reflects – boons in 1 word
4) Engineer – Solo stacks 20/25 vuln. decent DPS, might stacker. Excellent Allrounder
5-6) Ranger – rarely played well, but IF played well, respectable class DPS and buff wise.
5-6) Thief – some vulnerability stacking, Best DPS, very little party utility.
7) Mesmer – for PvE content jack-of-all trades, master of none. Subpar DPS, good ultimate, reflect bot. If you need reflects, bring a guard.
8) Necromancer – not a party player.

Just so you know, I don’t much care with which professions I run my PUGs. All that I ask is for them to know where to stack / what to do in a dungeon. If they don’t – ask us/me, or copy what the others are doing.

Obviously, for an ideal 5-man party I’d take:
1. Elementalist (1)
2. Warrior (1)
3. Engineer
4. Guardian /Thief
5. Ele (2) / War (2)

hybrid.5027:

sorrychief.2563:

rofl, there are meta builds for pve? don’t let these DNT guys play for you.

Why wouldn’t there be? When a specific job can be done in multiple ways there is always going to be an optimal way and a suboptimal.

Meta and optimal, are not the same thing.

In such an easy game they are pretty much the same.

@ Swish

Idk what meta pve builds are, sounds kitten to me but, if by wiggle room you mean overall sustainability and utility I’d still argue for thief being higher than necro. Not only do they have a surplus of blinds which are quick to reuse, they can cleave hard and ever since they let players change their traits anywhere as long as ooc, can adapt to fit perfectly into any boss fight or overall dungeon path.

Aside from stacking and using piercing Life blast with well of darkness and suffering, I don’t see the necro competing with group utility and dps. Those 2 alone is what imo puts necro below thief even if they are rather squishy.

Necros are bottom tier in the meta. Thieves have more blinds, more utility and more damage.

The base of any good group I run with would be:

Ele, Warrior – this covers might stacks, fury uptime, banners for max party DPS as well as glyph of storms for bursting bosses down at 25 vuln stacks and ice bow in case of large hitbox bosses

Rest would be composed of:

Thief – massive single target damage only rivaled by staff elementalists, stealth for skips and blind fields for veterans/elites
Guardian – for dungeons where reflects are needed and/or survivability is an issue.
2nd Ele – because having a staff ele + might stacking ele is awesome unless you need the spot for another class

Classes I could consider if I knew the player was good or for niche cases like portal skips:

Ranger – for spotter and frost spirit
Mesmer – reflects and portal skips, although not paired with guardian (would have to replace it in most cases)
Engie – long fights where vuln upkeep proves difficult for other classes, like fractals

I’d prefer not to see in my ideal party:
2nd Guardian – unless we’re talking about extremely difficult content, that isn’t in this game right now
2nd Warrior – brings nothing that could benefit the party more than classes listed above
2nd Thief – I’d rather have a 2nd ele, thx

Necro – offers nothing to the party that other professions wouldn’t already have covered. Even boon stripping is better taken care of by mesmer.

All listed above is my ideal party composition. In practice I am nowhere as picky as I made it look here and am willing to go with any party comp that I believe has covered all that is needed to complete the content relatively effectively.

I pretty much agree with Silferas.

One S/X might stacking Elementalist, One Staff fury stacking Elementalist, One Warrior for banner.

Then other profession depending on the dungeon.

Elementalist- everything…
Guardian: reflects, fire fields, stability, aegis, and if specced defensively they can carry inexperienced groups that no one short of a dungeon soloer can carry.
Warrior- Banners, PS, vulnerability, fire field if needed
Mesmer- reflects, TW, stealth
Engineer- everything… but unlike eles its either more difficult to find a good one or more difficult to play one well.
Thief- blast spam, Stealth, projectile defense if lacking reflects, blinds
Ranger- Spotter, Frost spirit,
Necromancer- erm condi remove?