Guild Wars 2

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

People don’t get revived in a zerg fight. They rally because the enemy dies faster.
Revives are fine IMO.

Yes they do… Not just downed people, but fully dead people as well.
Commanders will push forwards specifically to create a wall of bodies and focus res people back up again Vs. smaller groups. It prevents a smaller groups from being able to chip away at a larger one.

I’ve mentioned it before but,

“One person can’t do it all.”

How you feel about this statement tends to decide where you are on the downed state debate. Rallying is a different issue.

I mean it makes sense that both stomping and rezzing are fast in group situations, yes.

I wonder though, do the class-rezz-abilities need a look? They’re very slow to cast considering that their only gain is range, and in most cases you can run over there + rezz manually in the time required. Some are useful if the whole group goes down, but it doesn’t happen tooooo often.
(And then there’s Warbanner :P )

I’d rather rebalance those. They need to be stronger in group-support situations (compared to manual rezzing).

Rezzing does seem a bit fast, I’ve been able to revive my ally while under fire from 6 people. That seems a bit unfair to say the least. there is a balance you need between being able to revive fast enough to get out of a bad situation, but it does seem a bit overkill.

But that being said, finding that balance is very hard, and while rallying can be a problem thats complex to fix, remaking that balance is just as hard. Right now I’d liek to see the Bias on warriors that seems to exist before I trust the team with this.

Ah, this thread again.

Good players will learn how to play the downed state to their advantage, bad players will cry about it on the forums. Sorry but if you don’t know how to capitalize in any way on your enemy reviving players then you deserve to lose fights.

EFWinters.5421:

Ah, this thread again.

Good players will learn how to play the downed state to their advantage, bad players will cry about it on the forums. Sorry but if you don’t know how to capitalize in any way on your enemy reviving players then you deserve to lose fights.

Ah this response again with no arguments to back it up or examples to make a point.

Just a typical “L2P” response with nothing constructive to add.

Yes there are ways to capitalize on revives but in most cases you’re not in any position to do so. It also doesn’t change the validity of any of the arguments made thus far, especially about the speed of revives in general.

Dee Jay.2460:

EFWinters.5421:

Ah, this thread again.

Good players will learn how to play the downed state to their advantage, bad players will cry about it on the forums. Sorry but if you don’t know how to capitalize in any way on your enemy reviving players then you deserve to lose fights.

Ah this response again with no arguments to back it up or examples to make a point.

Just a typical “L2P” response with nothing constructive to add.

Yes there are ways to capitalize on revives but in most cases you’re not in any position to do so. It also doesn’t change the validity of any of the arguments made thus far, especially about the speed of revives in general.

To be fair, how does it add nothing constructive. The only constructive argument for the other side is a blind claim that revives are too fast, with not even one actual number as to how long they should be, or a single fact as to why. The “L2P” argument hold just as much water as the “waaaaah I died to a force 3 times our size and while they were kicking our tails they revived one guy, there for I will demand they change it to suit my personal situation” argument

So it is okay for random poster to just blurt out “revives are to fast” as if their opinion is fact, and every argument used to support it is a complaint about losing to a much larger force. Personally, I havn’t seen the slightest bit of evidence that revives are to fast. Anecdotal complaints are not good supporters for this argument in any way. Personally I think revives for stomped players are too slow. But that is just my opinion.

Once upon a time I went 1v4 in WvW as a glass cannon. They simply iqnored me and revived each other every time I killed one.

yski.7642:

Once upon a time I went 1v4 in WvW as a glass cannon. They simply iqnored me and revived each other every time I killed one.

This is the major issue. Downed state is a broken mechanic in general as it encourages bad-plays. It’s not only revival speed but also rally mechanic. Going down should be a punishment and not a free second chance. PvE parties would be more cautious if it wasn’t for banner rez. WvW would be more about spreading and avoiding death instead of blobbing into other blobs and hoping for the rally regardless of whether off the players or mobs.
I feel that downed mechanic was introduced together with the ‘casual friendly’ approach preached before the release.

rezzing/ reviving is a way faster than finishing poor squishy one like thieves/ mesmer cant do finish a foe in team clashes

This “down state is broken” crud is utter rubbish. It is simply a cheap excuse to blame ones own failure in battle. This becomes evident when everyone blames it, yet doesn’t have a single actual fact to support the claim. Just because you dislike it’s functionality is by no means an indication of a problem.

scabrous.7835:

yski.7642:

Once upon a time I went 1v4 in WvW as a glass cannon. They simply iqnored me and revived each other every time I killed one.

This is the major issue. Downed state is a broken mechanic in general as it encourages bad-plays. It’s not only revival speed but also rally mechanic. Going down should be a punishment and not a free second chance. PvE parties would be more cautious if it wasn’t for banner rez. WvW would be more about spreading and avoiding death instead of blobbing into other blobs and hoping for the rally regardless of whether off the players or mobs.
I feel that downed mechanic was introduced together with the ‘casual friendly’ approach preached before the release.

The main reason it exists is because there’s no dedicated healer/protector class like in other games (i.e. GW1). There’s also no dedicated reviver, so they have to enable everyone to be able to do it. It gives even full damage builds a way of “supporting” their allies beyond trying to kill things. It also means they can have very threatening PvE encounters without making them hit like wet noodles. For instance, the ultraviolet hologram has that attack which will one shot a lot of people, but they wouldn’t be able to have this without the revival mechanic in the game.

As far as the person describing their 1v4 situation, that’s not enough information. Did they attempt stomps at all? If so, they did use any mechanism to secure the stomp? Did they down the same person each time, thereby causing increased death penalty? Did they try to CC the revivers? Did they use poison to slow the rate of healing?

Besides, it’s quite possible to die within the span of 2-3 seconds while being repeatedly CC’ed and immobilized, basically meaning you can’t do anything. Having the downed state ensures that instagib builds need to at least do a bit of work in order to finish you off.

If they didn’t have such a mechanic, it’s quite possible that they would tone down a lot of spike damage or CC abilities to compensate, which I don’t think is that good a tradeoff. So I feel that the person complaining that the downed state mechanic is preventing them from winning 1v4s is moot because their spec would probably be nerfed heavily in the first place if it wasn’t for such mechanics.

There’s many things that can be done to ensure stomps or prevent revives. If your build doesn’t incorporate it, then that’s just a weakness of your build. You can either do something about it or not depending on whether or not you feel it’s valuable to have.

I think it’s also worth pointing out that the people complaining about the revive/rally mechanic are mostly complaining about situations that are detrimental to them, and I find it hard to believe that such mechanics have not worked in their favour many times.

The only thing I really feel is an issue with the rally mechanic is that it works off mobs in WvW, so some random moa that decides to show up in the middle of a fight can result in people rallying when it should really only be off players only.

coglin.1867:

This “down state is broken” crud is utter rubbish. It is simply a cheap excuse to blame ones own failure in battle. This becomes evident when everyone blames it, yet doesn’t have a single actual fact to support the claim. Just because you dislike it’s functionality is by no means an indication of a problem.

Ok then explain how it’s acceptable that a Guardian can revive his team-mate in 2.5 seconds, faster than any finisher is.

And this isn’t even accounting for all the finisher-delay tactics there are like knockbacks, CC and displacement.

Killing a glass-cannon takes at least 10 seconds in most situations. Being able to revive them so fast is in no way acceptable. The whole risk/reward ratio is off. You’re 2.5 second click negates the 10+ seconds of combat time and ability usage your enemy needed to even down him in the first place.

coglin.1867:

This “down state is broken” crud is utter rubbish. It is simply a cheap excuse to blame ones own failure in battle. This becomes evident when everyone blames it, yet doesn’t have a single actual fact to support the claim. Just because you dislike it’s functionality is by no means an indication of a problem.

How have you missed my arguments?

E.g.

Erebos.6741:

Lopez.7369:

Success reflects competency and competence is possession of required skill, but how does skill determine the success of combat if down state triggers passively, lowers the capability/skills influence of the afflicted and presents unfair vantage by rewarding the falling side with reviving capability?

scabrous.7835:

yski.7642:

Once upon a time I went 1v4 in WvW as a glass cannon. They simply iqnored me and revived each other every time I killed one.

This is the major issue. Downed state is a broken mechanic in general as it encourages bad-plays. It’s not only revival speed but also rally mechanic. Going down should be a punishment and not a free second chance. PvE parties would be more cautious if it wasn’t for banner rez. WvW would be more about spreading and avoiding death instead of blobbing into other blobs and hoping for the rally regardless of whether off the players or mobs.
I feel that downed mechanic was introduced together with the ‘casual friendly’ approach preached before the release.

Proven.2854:

I’ve mentioned it before but,

“One person can’t do it all.”

How you feel about this statement tends to decide where you are on the downed state debate. Rallying is a different issue.

I’ll also add that a stomper starting their stomp animation first will get the stomp before a single reviver can finish the revive unless the reviver is carrying a Warrior specific trait or Runes of Mercy. Oh, and I guess quickness, but how often do you see people carry that for reviving? Nothing else makes a single revive go faster beyond the the downed body trying to self-revive, but the stomper can do damage to stop that and use poison to slow down a revive further.